A la carte catholics ... for or against?

mikhail

This whole discussion reminds me of one of my favourite Bill Bailey jokes.

I'm a vegetarian. I'm not strict; I eat fish, and duck. Well, they're nearly fish, aren't they? They're semi-submerged a lot of the time, they spend a lot of time in the water, they're virtually fish, really. And pigs, cows, sheep, anything that lives near water, I'm not strict. I'm sort of like a post-modern vegetarian; I eat meat ironically.

Shenshen

mikhail wrote: »

This whole discussion reminds me of one of my favourite Bill Bailey jokes.

One of my favourite quotes ever

purple_hatstand

Wow! I came in here expecting to be joining in a chorus of voices protesting about those who have their children baptised in order to get them into the 'right' school or those who get married in church (with their daughters as flower girls) just to get the tax breaks.

Quite apart from the many observations already made in this thread, it is this kind of 'part-time-christianity' that annoys me and it could be so easily solved by not allowing preferential treatment in society for those who profess faith (which would mean, of course, that those of us without it wouldn't have to jump through their hoops).

As usual, I blame the Government!

Great thread and good luck Audrey!

lmaopml

While I defo agree that 'Irish' society is polarising and only rightly so, because human rights and freedom are something I and others like me cherish....Whatever side one decides ones exterior resides, whether it's of 'faith' or lack thereof..

..I don't quite understand, why the outrage at people of 'these times' in particular, young folk, who have 'faith' in Ireland? Or the hyberbole as regards 'us against them there..' from the Atheist worldview? It sometimes sounds really very juvenile to be honest...and it doesn't quite sound honest...

It's probably the reason why Atheism gets the name of being a 'faith' of sorts...

I guess as a society we will form, and polarise etc. but there are no 'enemies', unless you're talking about political 'stuff', as regards secular education etc. and even then, well.....

Why are people not getting up off their asses and 'demanding' it? I imagine you guys are cutting the vast majority of normal religious folk out of the equation by being well...kinda toff nosed to be honest about yourselves, and not a little bit whiney as to how we arrived here in the first place as a society and 'history' - as in it doesn't just 'be' the way we all want it to be cause we 'want' it to be a certain way overnight...

Unless one decides that there are enemies of 'reason', which is perhaps the biggest and most steaming pile of shyte that 'Atheists' have queued up to buy into...and pay dollars no less.

No? pml...

strobe

lmaopml wrote: »

While I defo agree that 'Irish' society is polarising and only rightly so, because human rights and freedom are something I and others like me cherish....Whatever side one decides ones exterior resides, whether it's of 'faith' or lack thereof..

..I don't quite understand, why the outrage at people of 'these times' in particular, young folk, who have 'faith' in Ireland? Or the hyberbole as regards 'us against them there..' from the Atheist worldview? It sometimes sounds really very juvenile to be honest...and it doesn't quite sound honest...

It's probably the reason why Atheism gets the name of being a 'faith' of sorts...

I guess as a society we will form, and polarise etc. but there are no 'enemies', unless you're talking about political 'stuff', as regards secular education etc. and even then, well.....

Why are people not getting up off their asses and 'demanding' it? I imagine you guys are cutting the vast majority of normal religious folk out of the equation by being well...kinda toff nosed to be honest about yourselves, and not a little bit whiney as to how we arrived here in the first place as a society and 'history' - as in it doesn't just 'be' the way we all want it to be cause we 'want' it to be a certain way overnight...

Unless one decides that there are enemies of 'reason', which is perhaps the biggest and most steaming pile of shyte that 'Atheists' have queued up to buy into...and pay dollars no less.

No? pml...

First, what does the acronym pml mean?

Second, you appear to be saying things about 'Atheists' based on the actions or attitudes of a very small percentage of 'Atheists'. Two can play that game as I am sure you are aware. But I don't wanna play.

krudler

strobe wrote: »

First, what does the acronym pml mean?

Second, you appear to be saying things about 'Atheists' based on the actions or attitudes of a very small percentage of 'Atheists'. Two can play that game as I am sure you are aware. But I don't wanna play.

pml= piss myself laughing

strobe

krudler wrote: »

pml= piss myself laughing

lol really? I think there is medication for that now....

Shenshen

lmaopml wrote: »

While I defo agree that 'Irish' society is polarising and only rightly so, because human rights and freedom are something I and others like me cherish....Whatever side one decides ones exterior resides, whether it's of 'faith' or lack thereof..

..I don't quite understand, why the outrage at people of 'these times' in particular, young folk, who have 'faith' in Ireland? Or the hyberbole as regards 'us against them there..' from the Atheist worldview? It sometimes sounds really very juvenile to be honest...and it doesn't quite sound honest...

It's probably the reason why Atheism gets the name of being a 'faith' of sorts...

I guess as a society we will form, and polarise etc. but there are no 'enemies', unless you're talking about political 'stuff', as regards secular education etc. and even then, well.....

Why are people not getting up off their asses and 'demanding' it? I imagine you guys are cutting the vast majority of normal religious folk out of the equation by being well...kinda toff nosed to be honest about yourselves, and not a little bit whiney as to how we arrived here in the first place as a society and 'history' - as in it doesn't just 'be' the way we all want it to be cause we 'want' it to be a certain way overnight...

Unless one decides that there are enemies of 'reason', which is perhaps the biggest and most steaming pile of shyte that 'Atheists' have queued up to buy into...and pay dollars no less.

No? pml...

Er... sorry, what?
Are you telling people off for asking for secular education, and for stopping preferential treatment of any faith?

Herbal Deity

lmaopml wrote: »

It's probably the reason why Atheism gets the name of being a 'faith' of sorts...

No, that's because people like you assume every atheist worships every book a "New Atheism" writer writes, and assume that because someone posts online expressing atheistic views and debating the religious, that they do this daily and frequently evangelise their lack of faith IRL.

I mean, come on, apart from some younger circles, one will get way more shít for being an Atheist than an A la carte Catholic in Ireland. "Coming out" as an Atheist can often mean ones whole family being disappointed and possibly even turning against them. Getting married outside a church or not baptising one's children can also mean disappointment and anger from family members, and in the latter case can mean discrimination when it comes to getting one's child into the local school.

A small corner of the internet doesn't reflect Irish society properly when it comes to these matters. There is no general "outrage" towards people of faith in the slightest in Ireland right now.

Galvasean

THis thread reminds me of the episode of Father Ted where Dougal says he completely belives in Catholocism, "except transubstantiation".

krudler

Galvasean wrote: »

THis thread reminds me of the episode of Father Ted where Dougal says he completely belives in Catholocism, "except transubstantiation".

"sure thats almost as mad as that thing you told me about the loaves and the fishes.."

purple_hatstand

Herbal Deity wrote: »

No, that's because people like you assume every atheist worships every book a "New Atheism" writer writes, and assume that because someone posts online expressing atheistic views and debating the religious, that they do this daily and frequently evangelise their lack of faith IRL.

I mean, come on, apart from some younger circles, one will get way more shít for being an Atheist than an A la carte Catholic in Ireland. "Coming out" as an Atheist can often mean ones whole family being disappointed and possibly even turning against them. Getting married outside a church or not baptising one's children can also mean disappointment and anger from family members, and in the latter case can mean discrimination when it comes to getting one's child into the local school.

A small corner of the internet doesn't reflect Irish society properly when it comes to these matters. There is no general "outrage" towards people of faith in the slightest in Ireland right now.

A friend of mine went through something like the 'countmeout' process several years ago during a period of self-actualisation and is now in the unfortunate position of regretting this decision on account of the wedge it has driven between himself and other (mostly older) members of his family.

The active separation of church and state at all levels would not necessarily on its own help people navigate these kinds of emotional minefields but it would lead towards a properly secular society in which all shades of grey are treated equally and life's decisions wouldn't be presented in so black-&-white a fashion.

It might also give some the means (and, possibly therefore, the courage) to distance themselves from traditional catholic irish society which means less to them than it does to older generations.

lmaopml

Shenshen wrote: »

Er... sorry, what?
Are you telling people off for asking for secular education, and for stopping preferential treatment of any faith?

Certainly not! I wish they actually 'would' get more motivated

lmaopml

Herbal Deity wrote: »

No, that's because people like you assume every atheist worships every book a "New Atheism" writer writes, and assume that because someone posts online expressing atheistic views and debating the religious, that they do this daily and frequently evangelise their lack of faith IRL.

I mean, come on, apart from some younger circles, one will get way more shít for being an Atheist than an A la carte Catholic in Ireland. "Coming out" as an Atheist can often mean ones whole family being disappointed and possibly even turning against them. Getting married outside a church or not baptising one's children can also mean disappointment and anger from family members, and in the latter case can mean discrimination when it comes to getting one's child into the local school.

A small corner of the internet doesn't reflect Irish society properly when it comes to these matters. There is no general "outrage" towards people of faith in the slightest in Ireland right now.

Yes, I agree the 'net' seems to have a dynamic of it's own...

Also, I agree that being 'different' can be difficult in family situations, and I defo empathise.

I have very many Atheist friends in real life who are driven towards their personal goals and still moan about the status quo without actually 'doing' anything about it? Which seems a little contradictory...

In one sense the common denominator seems to be a more 'secular' state and decent state education system, and the 'education' system I believe is a most worthy cause........but in 'reality' they do little about it except ( and I'm sorry, I'm well aware that not 'everybody' is the same ) whine about the 'status quo' and how awful they feel????

I personally, just think that the more important 'human rights' issues get totally lost with the sheer volumn of 'noise' and trivial stuff...ye know 'guffaw' shyte...?

Or perhaps the more 'mouthy' and kinda silly get the publicity ? I just don't know...Although, clearly it 'sells'..

There is a discernible 'wedge' being put in between normal everyday Irish folk and it's subliminal in some ways and presents strawmans on either side...

and personally, it annoys the shyte out of me...

lol...


( That means, 'Laughing Out Loud'! Nobody gets acronym softening anymore..)

I like laughing me The medication for 'pml'ing'' is called 'Tena Ladies' Strobe - keep up! :P