Nightvision outbreak!!

Soberts

Over the last week I have seen about 5 pairs of the MW2 Nightvision goggles being sold. Are they actually any good/ worth buying??

SgtBob

I have never used them myself. But, they came with a video game, i can't imagine they are in anyway hight tech or professional.

From what I have heard, they do work but only with a very limited range of vision. so might hinder more than help in a night game.

NakedDex

About as useful in a skirmish as a candle on a windy night. For the money I've seen them go for, you're better off with a decent torch. If you're dead set on night vision, Aldi do monoculars for good prices now and then. Reasonable quality, but far better than the toy MW2 ones.

Soberts

haha, guess its going to be a decent torch then!!

SgtBob

Soberts wrote: »

haha, guess its going to be a decent torch then!!

Yeah, I think you made the right choice

Leftyflip

Torches work both ways. Remember that.

Stercus Accidit

Leftyflip wrote: »

Torches work both ways. Remember that.

From what I've read, so do these yokes.

oeb

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

From what I've read, so do these yokes.

From what I know it works like a generation 0 night vision device. It works by shining infrared light ahead of you in a beam, just like a torch. The goggles allow you to see the light that is reflected of objects in front of you.

Infra red is not visible to the human eye, so while this type of device is fine and effective while trying to gain a tactical advantage over someone who is using a standard torch or something, you are visible to other people using similar goggles, because they can see the beam of infrared light shining from your head.

I have used a friends pair for a few minutes to check them out, they are grand for what you get. It's a cheap set of NVG, they work, up to about 50 feet or so I guess, the picture is nice and clear too.

Just don't be expecting a top of the range piece of kit for 50 quid.

Soberts

one thing I havent seen anyone touch on is, do the NVG's count as eye protection or do you need to wear eye protection under them? If you do have to wear protection under them, is it comfortable? I would be using mesh glasses

Blazer

what is the highest gen you can legally use here?

oeb

Sc@recrow wrote: »

what is the highest gen you can legally use here?

The only regulation that I am aware of is that weapon mountable night vision devices are either restricted or illegal (I don't know which). Hand held or head mounted types are fine. Either way the higher end stuff (Gen 2 and above, and high quality earlier stuff) is very very expensive.

EDIT:
Just took a quick look there as an example, there is a store in tipp that seems to specialize in night vision devices. The GEN 1 devices seem to range from 400 - 1500 and the GEN 2 devices start at 2000.

Blazer

so for €50 they're probably worth a punt...that's if you play night games

oeb

Sc@recrow wrote: »

so for €50 they're probably worth a punt...that's if you play night games

Well they are definitely a bit of craic, and they do look pretty cool on a shelf mounted on the stylized head you get with it. And as you say yourself, it's only 50 quid. They work better than no goggles anyway

ED E

No NV beats cheap NV as it prevents you building up your own "natural nightvision".

oeb

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

No NV beats cheap NV as it prevents you building up your own "natural nightvision".

That all depends how dark it is.

MagicIRL

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

No NV beats cheap NV as it prevents you building up your own "natural nightvision".

Surely if your going to use NV all night then having natural nightvision is irrelevant?

Puding

natural night vision far far more useful than gen 1/1+ any day of the week

it has been discussed before but for anything other than observation you might as well not use the gen 1 stuff, and even with observation i would still want someone with me not using night vision as the field of vision is so small its far to easy to get tunnel vision

ED E

MagicIRL wrote: »

Surely if your going to use NV all night then having natural nightvision is irrelevant?

As puding has said, NV all night only works with massively expensive gear. Even in the dark the opposition will see you well before you seen them with the cheap stuff.

Lordhogo

Its interesting how the thread about MW2 NVGs came out last year asking were they any use when the prestige edition was announced and now another thread the year after with the same type of discussion but this time it is because they are all being sold on adverts.

Puding

well i think the answers in the previous thread last year also answer the questions in this thread,

there a novelty item a gimmick added onto a special edition so they could charge silly money they more than likely cost 20 - 30 usd to make ( if that ) and for anything other than pissing about in the garden or in your living room for 5 minutes there

people are selling them as there trying to get back some of the money they spent buying the dame things in the first place

oeb

Puding wrote: »

people are selling them as there trying to get back some of the money they spent buying the dame things in the first place

I think what it has an awful lot more to do with is people have seen over the last couple of days that someone will trade them a GBB pistol or a vest for something that they thought was worthless.

It's not even so much over the last couple of days though, I have noticed them selling a bit on adverts over the last couple of months too.

roryk1

i have a knight vision monoscope thing will check make when i get home but it works great with an infra red torch i got with it but when i used it natural visibility was nil in a woodland nightgame got some great kills but it takes some gettin used to

k99_64

Tbh the MW2 NV are just good craic, and at a normal skirmish day (not milsim) what more do you want?

NakedDex

Something that works?

k99_64

NakedDex wrote: »

Something that works?

They do work, if you want 'mil spec' you buy mil spec, if you want to run around with gunz that fire plastic balls and have something that lets you 'feel' like you have NV you get mw2 NV.

NakedDex

Nope, they don't. Here's why;

The "night vision" set provided with the MW2 box set is an exceptionally low resolution, short range, high-emission, binocular viewing NVG.
Let's break all that tech speak down.

Low resolution - The problem with a low resolution optical system being clamped to your eyes as your only method of vision is that, suddenly, anything can be anything. That dark spot about 40m out? That could be a person, a group of people, a car, a shadow or a spot of dirt. You can't tell because the image lacks any definition whatsoever. Even at far closer ranges, you'd struggle to tell facial features and distinguish clothing/equipment.

Short range - The maximum claimed range of this NVG is 50m, which is very, very short. This range is given with the assumption that there is an amount of natural backlight to assist the NVG. Remember, all NVG's are simply light enhancers, they don't actually work in pitch black without assistance from IR, natural and background radiated light.

High emission - The IR mention brings us nicely onto one of it's biggest flaws; it's IR illuminator. This is a ring of IR LED's that encircle the centre sensor. Not only does this light up like a flare on anyone elses NVG, but it's so clustered and unmasked that it can be seen perfectly clearly with a naked eye from as far as you'll see with the NVG's on to begin with.

Binocular view - The design of this device encompasses both eyes in a full-seal enclosure, to view the image provided by a single, narrow-field-of-view input. There are a number of problems with this. To begin with, you have now lost depth perception and, therefore, are unable to accurately judge distance.
Secondly, you will have now lost any chance of having usable natural nightvision during the game, since both of your eyes have been so closely exposed to bright light (taking your goggles off will render you useless for 20-40 minutes while your eyes adjust to darkness).
Furthermore, the length of the device, coupled with the narrow field-of-view, make it entirely possible for someone to sneak up on you from almost in front of you. Any position outside of the 15 degree, or so, arc of sight directly in front of you is now your blind spot.



These are just some of the problems with it for use in even a skirmish where you're just messing around. I'm also fairly sure, having handled one, that it wouldn't cope well with a direct hit either.
Compare the price that these go for, to the price of the infinitely better cheap night vision monoculars that often pop up in Aldi or Lidl, and you've got a no brainer decision as to which to get, for messing or milsim.
It's not a case of being "Mil-spec", it's a case of being useful. I got a free screwdriver with a set of flat pack shelves once, but if I'm doing a job, I'll use the decent quality Snap-On ones in my toolbox.

k99_64

NakedDex wrote: »

Nope, they don't. Here's why;

The "night vision" set provided with the MW2 box set is an exceptionally low resolution, short range, high-emission, binocular viewing NVG.
Let's break all that tech speak down.

Low resolution - The problem with a low resolution optical system being clamped to your eyes as your only method of vision is that, suddenly, anything can be anything. That dark spot about 40m out? That could be a person, a group of people, a car, a shadow or a spot of dirt. You can't tell because the image lacks any definition whatsoever. Even at far closer ranges, you'd struggle to tell facial features and distinguish clothing/equipment.

Short range - The maximum claimed range of this NVG is 50m, which is very, very short. This range is given with the assumption that there is an amount of natural backlight to assist the NVG. Remember, all NVG's are simply light enhancers, they don't actually work in pitch black without assistance from IR, natural and background radiated light.

High emission - The IR mention brings us nicely onto one of it's biggest flaws; it's IR illuminator. This is a ring of IR LED's that encircle the centre sensor. Not only does this light up like a flare on anyone elses NVG, but it's so clustered and unmasked that it can be seen perfectly clearly with a naked eye from as far as you'll see with the NVG's on to begin with.

Binocular view - The design of this device encompasses both eyes in a full-seal enclosure, to view the image provided by a single, narrow-field-of-view input. There are a number of problems with this. To begin with, you have now lost depth perception and, therefore, are unable to accurately judge distance.
Secondly, you will have now lost any chance of having usable natural nightvision during the game, since both of your eyes have been so closely exposed to bright light (taking your goggles off will render you useless for 20-40 minutes while your eyes adjust to darkness).
Furthermore, the length of the device, coupled with the narrow field-of-view, make it entirely possible for someone to sneak up on you from almost in front of you. Any position outside of the 15 degree, or so, arc of sight directly in front of you is now your blind spot.



These are just some of the problems with it for use in even a skirmish where you're just messing around. I'm also fairly sure, having handled one, that it wouldn't cope well with a direct hit either.
Compare the price that these go for, to the price of the infinitely better cheap night vision monoculars that often pop up in Aldi or Lidl, and you've got a no brainer decision as to which to get, for messing or milsim.
It's not a case of being "Mil-spec", it's a case of being useful. I got a free screwdriver with a set of flat pack shelves once, but if I'm doing a job, I'll use the decent quality Snap-On ones in my toolbox.

Grand, im taking the point that if your out for some fun in a skirmish and you have MW2 NV goggles, its good for what you want. Fun.

NakedDex

And I'm trying to convey that they wouldn't even be good for that. They'd be so counter-productive that you'd ditch them after only a few minutes and never use them again. All of what I said above is aimed at use in a regular "for fun" skirmish, hence my repeated use of the phrase "messing around". I can give you a dozen more reasons why they'd be useless for Milsim, but they're just as pointless for "fun" games, since they'll cut out most of your view and ruin your experience.

k99_64

NakedDex wrote: »

And I'm trying to convey that they wouldn't even be good for that. They'd be so counter-productive that you'd ditch them after only a few minutes and never use them again. All of what I said above is aimed at use in a regular "for fun" skirmish, hence my repeated use of the phrase "messing around". I can give you a dozen more reasons why they'd be useless for Milsim, but they're just as pointless for "fun" games, since they'll cut out most of your view and ruin your experience.

Well for me they didnt ruin the experience, it was just a new 'experience' i knew what i was getting into and i loved the lack of being able to tell distance and such!

Some people want that over the top kind of thing.

NakedDex

Not to seem argumentative on the topic, because I'm very much of an "each to their own" mentality, but the Aldi/Lidl NVG is smaller, lighter, less obtrusive, easier to use and more effective. It's hardly a case of going over the top. Going such a route would be closer to the likes of getting Gen 3+ NVG's.

k99_64

NakedDex wrote: »

Not to seem argumentative on the topic, because I'm very much of an "each to their own" mentality, but the Aldi/Lidl NVG is smaller, lighter, less obtrusive, easier to use and more effective. It's hardly a case of going over the top. Going such a route would be closer to the likes of getting Gen 3+ NVG's.

But they dont look so cool

Tomazas

NakedDex wrote: »

Not to seem argumentative on the topic, because I'm very much of an "each to their own" mentality, but the Aldi/Lidl NVG is smaller, lighter, less obtrusive, easier to use and more effective. It's hardly a case of going over the top. Going such a route would be closer to the likes of getting Gen 3+ NVG's.

You dont really need gen3+ NVG, they are too expensive for playing games. we have played with gen2+ and was more than enough. No comparison to natural night vision, price is also ok'ish can get a pair for 1k or so. we also used IR laser pointer which was great to illuminate very dark areas:)

cypharius

k99_64 wrote: »

But they dont look so cool

TBH, people look like ***** while they're wearing them.

Soberts

Its dark though, i presume you dont really care what you look like in pitch black!

cypharius

Soberts wrote: »

Its dark though, i presume you dont really care what you look like in pitch black!

Other people have ways of seeing you though. Like torches.


Wait... wouldn't you get blinded from other peoples torches?

NakedDex

Tomazas wrote: »

You dont really need gen3+ NVG, they are too expensive for playing games. we have played with gen2+ and was more than enough. No comparison to natural night vision, price is also ok'ish can get a pair for 1k or so. we also used IR laser pointer which was great to illuminate very dark areas:)

I was only using Gen 3+ as an example. Frankly, if I had Gen 2 NVG, there'd be no way I'd risk taking them to a night game. That's a big "if" too, since there'd also be no way I'd pay a grand for them, or anything airsoft related.

Soberts

cypharius wrote: »

Other people have ways of seeing you though. Like torches.


Wait... wouldn't you get blinded from other peoples torches?

Oh yeah, forgot about that!! I have my moments of genius!

And yes you do get blinded by torches!

k99_64

cypharius wrote: »

TBH, people look like ***** while they're wearing them.

goblin59

im just gonna chuck in, i wouldnt skirmish with them simply because they dont feel like they'd be up to taking a hit from a bb, even if it was shot with one of the 50euro p90's MIA had in stock.