Outraged - JSA

Dave_24irl

Hi guys,

I really need to vent. I am literally agog and pretty upset at the treatment I received today for my JSA interview.

Long story short, I am 25. Lost my job in May, Signed on, was living in Dublin. I ran out of money fast and 2 months later moved home to my Dads house (he passed away on in June, the house was not left to me but I am living there temporarily until I find another job. I went into the Limerick office (where I am now residing) and requested a transfer of my claim/ from Dublin.

I handed in all the necessary documents and was called for interview today. When I got to the interview I was treated like dirt. The inspector began by immediately telling me that 'no one can live on fresh air' and accussed me of having another source of income. He implied that my housemate in Dublin was actually my GF and that she was supporting me because we 'shared the esb bills'. I pointed out that the esb is shared in ANY house/apartment and that the ESB have no method of identifying which housemate uses which electricity. He said because he could not establish if she my girlfriend and not my housemate that my claim up to the point of moving was invalid and that I could only be assessed from when I moved home! When I queried if this was allowed he said I was being 'defensive'. He then went through my bank statements line for line and queried what I had been spending my final pay packet on. He said 'the evidence is all here'. When I asked him what he meant he said 'you tell me'. I felt like I was being quizzed by a detective. He then demanded a letter from the probate office confirming my residence in my fathers house despite me providing many bills and statements and my birth cert which stated I was born there.

He also asked why I hadn't gone to the CWO. When I told him I was living onff my last paycheck and that given the administration of my fathers death I hadnt considered visiting the CWO yet (select hours which were difficult to make due to various factors) he said it was a sign I had a 'hidden income'. I again stated I had not withheld information and he again said 'we can only assess your claim from when you moved, even if I signed off on this today you wouldn't get it for 10 weeks' followed by a laugh in which he said ' sorry for your loss'. At this point I started crying and said that I had been struggling and that I again have given all my information he said 'no one goes without food and you couldn't have made 1850euro last you 10 weeks'. When I pointed out 1850 divided by ten was the dole payment itself he said 'you're getting defensive again'.

I questioned why the Dublin office had not transferred any paper work on my claim and he said 'they could have calledto your house and maybe you werent there'. I responded by asking if that was the case then surely there would be a record of that and the claim would have been closed or they would have written to me and he responded by saying social welfare officers can call to your home at any time and don't give you notice. I had no idea what point he was trying to make.

Finally he asked me to get a new P45. I said the original one was supplied and he said 'well I don't have it so you must be mistaken'.

I 100% supplied my p45. The final word was when he stood up as I was sitting there in tears and said 'go on away out of it and bring me back what I asked for within 7 days or your claim is closed'.

I havn't stopped crying since I got home. I honestly cannot believe the way I was treated. I have written a letter of complaint but I am wondering what should I do? My housemate from Dublin said she is really angry at the implication we were a couple and will happily provide evidence of her own relationship and a letter stating we were never involved. He effectively accused me of many many things without a shred of proof and used it to basically invalidate my previous ten weeks.

Any advice would be seriously appreciated. I have never felt so low about my circumstances.

Balagan

Deepest condolences on the passing of your Dad.

Send your letter of complaint about the Inspector. Send it by Registered Post. Keep copies of the letter and the registration record.

Chances are your P45 is still in Dublin with the rest of your paperwork. Try to get the SW in Limerick to have it sent down or write yourself to the place where you made the claim with request that P45 be sent to the Limerick Office. Register that letter too. Also try to get your last employer to give you another P45.

In the meantime, go to the CWO for funds to tide you over.

mumof2

:eek::eek:

God, can they still intimidate people like that to this day???!!!

My condolences to you on the loss of your Dad. My first instinct was to say write a letter of complaint including his name and everything, and certainly register it. He needs to be taken down a peg or two!!:mad:

I hope he loses his job, and needs to be "interviewed" before he can get any funds!!!!

Jesus........whats the world coming to.

Fair play btw that the lady in the other accommodation is willing to write a letter to support your claim....

Clauric

OP, my commiserations on your loss.

Just to add to this.

I was in a similar position, with a very nasty Inspector. I made a point of bringing in a solicitor into the meeting. As my solicitor is considered another person, when they tried to accuse me of lying, and various other things, I pointed out that they, the inspector, was making slanderous statements. It shut him up very quickly!!

I would send in a letter, not only to his local office (get the name of the local office manager - normally a HEO), a letter to the Ombudsman, a letter to your local TDs (up to 5 of them), and finally to the Minister. It is amazing what those letters can do.

OmeGar

My condolences on your loss.

A quick correction.

The local Office manager has no control over investigators, they are seperate branches.

You would need to complain to the Area manager, the Investigators manager, which is usally of AP grade. a registered letter to the local office, with the addressee of the Area Manager should reach them, the area manager might have several local offices under their control.

Nolanger

Dave_24irl wrote: »

Hi guys,
I really need to vent. I am literally agog and pretty upset at the treatment I received today for my JSA interview.

Make a complaint: qcs@welfare.ie

Dave_24irl wrote: »

Long story short, I am 25. Lost my job in May, Signed on, was living in Dublin. I ran out of money fast and 2 months later moved home to my Dads house (he passed away on in June, the house was not left to me but I am living there temporarily until I find another job. I went into the Limerick office (where I am now residing) and requested a transfer of my claim/ from Dublin.

I handed in all the necessary documents and was called for interview today. When I got to the interview I was treated like dirt. The inspector began by immediately telling me that 'no one can live on fresh air' and accussed me of having another source of income. He implied that my housemate in Dublin was actually my GF and that she was supporting me because we 'shared the esb bills'. I pointed out that the esb is shared in ANY house/apartment and that the ESB have no method of identifying which housemate uses which electricity. He said because he could not establish if she my girlfriend and not my housemate that my claim up to the point of moving was invalid and that I could only be assessed from when I moved home! When I queried if this was allowed he said I was being 'defensive'. He then went through my bank statements line for line and queried what I had been spending my final pay packet on. He said 'the evidence is all here'. When I asked him what he meant he said 'you tell me'. I felt like I was being quizzed by a detective. He then demanded a letter from the probate office confirming my residence in my fathers house despite me providing many bills and statements and my birth cert which stated I was born there.

Sounds like he was just doing his job?

Dave_24irl wrote: »

He also asked why I hadn't gone to the CWO. When I told him I was living onff my last paycheck and that given the administration of my fathers death I hadnt considered visiting the CWO yet (select hours which were difficult to make due to various factors) he said it was a sign I had a 'hidden income'. I again stated I had not withheld information and he again said 'we can only assess your claim from when you moved, even if I signed off on this today you wouldn't get it for 10 weeks' followed by a laugh in which he said ' sorry for your loss'. At this point I started crying and said that I had been struggling and that I again have given all my information he said 'no one goes without food and you couldn't have made 1850euro last you 10 weeks'. When I pointed out 1850 divided by ten was the dole payment itself he said 'you're getting defensive again'.

Definitely make a complaint.

Dave_24irl wrote: »

I questioned why the Dublin office had not transferred any paper work on my claim and he said 'they could have calledto your house and maybe you werent there'. I responded by asking if that was the case then surely there would be a record of that and the claim would have been closed or they would have written to me and he responded by saying social welfare officers can call to your home at any time and don't give you notice. I had no idea what point he was trying to make.

Nothing to do with that inspector.

Dave_24irl wrote: »

Finally he asked me to get a new P45. I said the original one was supplied and he said 'well I don't have it so you must be mistaken'.

I 100% supplied my p45.

There are three identical pages of the P45 and you give Welfare the yellow one. Where are the other two?

Dave_24irl wrote: »

The final word was when he stood up as I was sitting there in tears and said 'go on away out of it and bring me back what I asked for within 7 days or your claim is closed'.

I havn't stopped crying since I got home. I honestly cannot believe the way I was treated. I have written a letter of complaint but I am wondering what should I do?

Find out who this guy's manager is. Chances are he/she might be based in another office. Email the department for a name. Write a letter to his manager outlining the above.

My housemate from Dublin said she is really angry at the implication we were a couple and will happily provide evidence of her own relationship and a letter stating we were never involved. He effectively accused me of many many things without a shred of proof and used it to basically invalidate my previous ten weeks.

Wait and see what happens and then send in an appeal for those ten weeks if they won't pay you.

stateofflux

ive heard of this type of thing...friend of mine had a gestapo inquisition last week , they systematically went through everything on her bank statement which totals 500 euro...and demanding details of her flatmates who she doesnt even know and birth cert / pass port which is already on file!

i know its tough and especially given what have been through....but try & stay unemotional and focused...you have nothing to hide if you told them the truth....see the course through knowing your rights at every turn (go to citezens advice if you're unsure - they are very helpful)....you will get you're money if you stay one step ahead and know exactly what the deal is.

hope this helps....there are some nasty fcuks in welfare who enjoy making peoples lives a misery....just bypass them

if there is a real brick wall then go straight to your local councellor / td and tell him/her and give him/her a rant over your treatment and say how you want to vote for him/her at the next election ....trust me local tds have massive pulling power

I was treated similiarly by a social welfare inspector. We broke down my expenses and it left 50 euro a week for food. She said no one can eat on 50 euro a week. Um, yes you can. I have eaten on 10 or 5 euro a week for a year. Baked beans and bread, love, and only once a day. It's not that hard. Looking over my bank statement this woman saw a deposit of 10 euro. She asked where it came from, I told her I cooked dinner for my 92 year old grandfather and he gave me 10 euro, I put it into my account because my account was about 700 euro in debt. She said "How often do you cook for your grandfather?" - I told her every Tuesday, it was an arrangement in my family, I took Tuesday evenings. Then she says aloud, while writing "Ten euro for services every Tuesday". I cannot express how mad I was. My grandfather sometimes, only sometimes gave me money when I came to visit him. She told me that this was employment. Cooking a meal for your elderly relatives, who will give you a bit of cash when they have it, is employment. I could have hit the roof.

There was a guy worked in my local dole office who constantly accused me of living at another address (said to me one time "We went over and none of your belongings were there" - so I replied "Where were my budgies at the time?"). Then I got a letter for a social welfare review at a time when I wasn't even on the dole, so I went into the office and said "Hi, I got this letter about a social welfare review" - he rolled his eyes and said "Yeah, so?" - I said "I'm not on the dole", he said "Well, just **** it then".

These people are in comfortable jobs just tearing us unemployed people to pieces. If it was not for the few really understanding and civil social welfare officers I have met I would probably not be brave enough to apply again.

OP I feel for you. Reading your post was like reliving my social welfare experiences. Report, if you feel strong enough to, and best of luck in your claim.

wmpdd3

Reminds me of Angella's Ashes?

Definitely complain.

monkeypants

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a guy worked in my local dole office who constantly accused me of living at another address (said to me one time "We went over and none of your belongings were there"

How did he get in? If someone calls to my house and I'm not there, they don't get in. Also, how does he know which contents belong to you?

Deleted User wrote: »

"Hi, I got this letter about a social welfare review" - he rolled his eyes and said "Yeah, so?" - I said "I'm not on the dole", he said "Well, just **** it then".

What an ass!

Chicken Run

OH has been called for a review meeting tomorrow and after reading this, I'm dreading it for him

We had to send bank statements and credit card bills into our local office a month ago and it appears they want to query some of the transactions on them (we have a UK account, which I also gave them statements for) which pays our pension contributions and has odd bits of shares dividends paid into it occasionally.

I normally deal with all the banking, so I've had to go through each sheet and mark what every transaction was and where it went / came from. Should I include an invoice for my time ???

blossom180

Dave_24irl wrote: »

Hi guys,

I really need to vent. I am literally agog and pretty upset at the treatment I received today for my JSA interview.

Long story short, I am 25. Lost my job in May, Signed on, was living in Dublin. I ran out of money fast and 2 months later moved home to my Dads house (he passed away on in June, the house was not left to me but I am living there temporarily until I find another job. I went into the Limerick office (where I am now residing) and requested a transfer of my claim/ from Dublin.

I handed in all the necessary documents and was called for interview today. When I got to the interview I was treated like dirt. The inspector began by immediately telling me that 'no one can live on fresh air' and accussed me of having another source of income. He implied that my housemate in Dublin was actually my GF and that she was supporting me because we 'shared the esb bills'. I pointed out that the esb is shared in ANY house/apartment and that the ESB have no method of identifying which housemate uses which electricity. He said because he could not establish if she my girlfriend and not my housemate that my claim up to the point of moving was invalid and that I could only be assessed from when I moved home! When I queried if this was allowed he said I was being 'defensive'. He then went through my bank statements line for line and queried what I had been spending my final pay packet on. He said 'the evidence is all here'. When I asked him what he meant he said 'you tell me'. I felt like I was being quizzed by a detective. He then demanded a letter from the probate office confirming my residence in my fathers house despite me providing many bills and statements and my birth cert which stated I was born there.

He also asked why I hadn't gone to the CWO. When I told him I was living onff my last paycheck and that given the administration of my fathers death I hadnt considered visiting the CWO yet (select hours which were difficult to make due to various factors) he said it was a sign I had a 'hidden income'. I again stated I had not withheld information and he again said 'we can only assess your claim from when you moved, even if I signed off on this today you wouldn't get it for 10 weeks' followed by a laugh in which he said ' sorry for your loss'. At this point I started crying and said that I had been struggling and that I again have given all my information he said 'no one goes without food and you couldn't have made 1850euro last you 10 weeks'. When I pointed out 1850 divided by ten was the dole payment itself he said 'you're getting defensive again'.

I questioned why the Dublin office had not transferred any paper work on my claim and he said 'they could have calledto your house and maybe you werent there'. I responded by asking if that was the case then surely there would be a record of that and the claim would have been closed or they would have written to me and he responded by saying social welfare officers can call to your home at any time and don't give you notice. I had no idea what point he was trying to make.

Finally he asked me to get a new P45. I said the original one was supplied and he said 'well I don't have it so you must be mistaken'.

I 100% supplied my p45. The final word was when he stood up as I was sitting there in tears and said 'go on away out of it and bring me back what I asked for within 7 days or your claim is closed'.

I havn't stopped crying since I got home. I honestly cannot believe the way I was treated. I have written a letter of complaint but I am wondering what should I do? My housemate from Dublin said she is really angry at the implication we were a couple and will happily provide evidence of her own relationship and a letter stating we were never involved. He effectively accused me of many many things without a shred of proof and used it to basically invalidate my previous ten weeks.

Any advice would be seriously appreciated. I have never felt so low about my circumstances.

went through a lot of that myself,it is very degrading.was in bits for months.got it sorted in the end,nearly had a break down,alls good now.

Dave_24irl

Thanks for all the replies guys, this is why I love boards.ie - you can share personal problems relating to anything and get constructive feedback. I eel less alone knowing that others have gone through the same. I have retrieved all of the extra documentation required and I am supplying it all tommorro, along with registering with Fas and seeing the CWO at 10 am tommorrow.

I have no expectations anymore regarding my treatment. fully expect this to be a battle and I am prepared for it. I'm all for personal responsibility but I have genuinely been seeking work and for it to be implied that I am living the high life while chancing my arm for a dole payment is borderline ridiculous. It really makes me wonder sometimes about the system and the way in which it operates. It seems long-term unemployment is actually encouraged when you have to jump through hoops just to get back in the system after working for years.

Thanks again. I will update on any progress.

zero19

Hearing stories like these makes me feel like if i ever ended up in an SW interview situation, i'd bring my phone and record the conversation incase i got this kind of treatment.

They shouldn't be allowed treat people that way.

monkeypants

monkeypants wrote: »

How did he get in? If someone calls to my house and I'm not there, they don't get in. Also, how does he know which contents belong to you?

I had housemates, anyway, he would have been lying about that. He was just so sure that I didn't live there.

SugarHigh

zero19 wrote: »

Hearing stories like these makes me feel like if i ever ended up in an SW interview situation, i'd bring my phone and record the conversation incase i got this kind of treatment.

They shouldn't be allowed treat people that way.

That wouldn't help you at all because you wouldn't be able to us it against him since you recorded him without his permission.

monkeypants

SugarHigh wrote: »

That wouldn't help you at all because you wouldn't be able to us it against him since you recorded him without his permission.

Depends on the circumstances. It couldn't be used in court probably, but it could probably be used in a complaint to his department. Can't do any harm.

At the very least, it would help you to type out an accurate transcript of the meeting.

Dave_24irl

Hi guys,

I went to see my Community Welfare Officer today and he was really sympathetic. He said my documents clearly showed I was living on no means and that the inspector should have been a little calmer in his approach. He organised a payment starting next Tuesday and every following Thurs from then on so I am so relieved. Hopefully now I can focus all my efforts on finding a job and get out of this crazy system but today it worked in my favour. Thanks a million for all your help.

Chicken Run

Dave_24irl wrote: »

Hi guys,

I went to see my Community Welfare Officer today and he was really sympathetic. He said my documents clearly showed I was living on no means and that the inspector should have been a little calmer in his approach. He organised a payment starting next Tuesday and every following Thurs from then on so I am so relieved. Hopefully now I can focus all my efforts on finding a job and get out of this crazy system but today it worked in my favour. Thanks a million for all your help.

Really pleased you got sorted and that the CWO was nicer.


Must be the training they get as OH's "interview" today was terrible - the woman was really rude and almost interrogated him, repeating the same question over and over again in the hope he'd change his answer, and implying he was a liar.

He came away with another list of documents to be produced within 7 days, or else.

I know they've got to weed out fraudulent claims, I appreciate that, but when someone plays by the rules, why the heavy-handed, nasty approach.

Neither of us particularly relishes claiming welfare, it's just unfortunate that both our professions have seen a serious downturn like many others. And we ARE making an effort by not turning down any casual work that comes along.....