Aritech CS 350 - Query

minder2009

Hi All

Just wanted to increase the sensivity to the front windows in house.
A magnetic shock sensor on both openings in the window. Did a walk test and internal bell operates when 2windows are opened and closed. Entered engineer code , went to shock zones on menu and then checked for Zone 5 which is the sitting room window and its not listed!?
There are 6 zones. 1-4 are there , no sign of zone 5 or 6. Zone 6 is the upstairs windows.
I again went into eng.mode and selected Zone 5(sit Win) I hit the window hard near both sensors and it didnt react. Any ideas. The alarm has activated for apparently no reason on zone 5 , thats why i was checking.
No faults showing on keypad. Any ideas appreciated

Jnealon

Only zones 1-4 are analyzed, zones 5 and 6 are not. Either get some vipers or impaqs or switch the zones around to suit

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Hi All

Just wanted to increase the sensivity to the front windows in house.
A magnetic shock sensor on both openings in the window. Did a walk test and internal bell operates when 2windows are opened and closed. Entered engineer code , went to shock zones on menu and then checked for Zone 5 which is the sitting room window and its not listed!?
There are 6 zones. 1-4 are there , no sign of zone 5 or 6. Zone 6 is the upstairs windows.
I again went into eng.mode and selected Zone 5(sit Win) I hit the window hard near both sensors and it didnt react. Any ideas. The alarm has activated for apparently no reason on zone 5 , thats why i was checking.
No faults showing on keypad. Any ideas appreciated

I would say you have a faulty sensor on the loop. If you set the alarm and hit the window does it activate the alarm ?

minder2009

Thanks a lot for your reply.
Two quick things. The alarm guy who extended alarm to cover extension put a PIR in new kitchen and has that zone 4.
Zone 1 is the front door which is only a magnetic sensor only.

I imagine I can change those , and put zone 5 (sit rm window) on one and Zone 6 (upstairs windows)on the other (i.e. zone 4&1 they dont need gross/pulse)) if ya follow.

lastly! This has to be done by moving cables in the panel to the appropiate zones i presume , it cannot be done from the keypad?

As it stands (original post) I cannot increase 'sensitivity' on the windows(Z5) without going (reluctantly) into the wiring in panel?!

Much obliged
Thanks

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Thanks a lot for your reply.
Two quick things. The alarm guy who extended alarm to cover extension put a PIR in new kitchen and has that zone 4.
Zone 1 is the front door which is only a magnetic sensor only.

I imagine I can change those , and put zone 5 (sit rm window) on one and Zone 6 (upstairs windows)on the other (i.e. zone 4&1 they dont need gross/pulse)) if ya follow.

lastly! This has to be done by moving cables in the panel to the appropiate zones i presume , it cannot be done from the keypad?

As it stands (original post) I cannot increase 'sensitivity' on the windows(Z5) without going (reluctantly) into the wiring in panel?!

Much obliged
Thanks

Correct, the wiring in the panel is going to have to be change to allow you to put the shocks on zones 1-4.
There is no gross/ pulse on zone 5 so the only solution is to move the cables in the panel.

Your installer should of know this so i would get him to move the cables and configure the alarm the way you want it. I would also get him to check for a faulty sensor on the front windows.

minder2009

thks for reply - altor


can i just ask , is it the case that the shock sensor should work fine even if its on zone 5 , the only problem being , that as this zone is not analysed you cannot set the gross/pulse settings?presumably on zone 5 they are at some default setting?

lastly! i banged the window continually when the alarm is set ..no activation. I wonder how do i check to see what the fault is here and go about repairing it?

THks


Minder

Jnealon

They will not work on zone 5, you will need to move it on to zones 1-4.
Reason being when a shock activates it only opens for milliseconds which a non analysed zone can not detect

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

thks for reply - altor


can i just ask , is it the case that the shock sensor should work fine even if its on zone 5 , the only problem being , that as this zone is not analysed you cannot set the gross/pulse settings?presumably on zone 5 they are at some default setting?

lastly! i banged the window continually when the alarm is set ..no activation. I wonder how do i check to see what the fault is here and go about repairing it?

THks


Minder

The contact part of the magnetic shock sensor will work but not the shock.
The only way to get it to work is move the cables in zone 5 to zones 1-4.

You could do this yourself if you had engineer access to change the zone type for the front door to entry/exit on zone 5 or 6. Same with moving the pir to 5 or 6 if you need to have it set up for part set.

It is easy enough to do yourself if you can get this code.

minder2009

Hello

Thks for all the advice altor.

have moved pir off zone 4 to zone 5 and put sitting room windows(was z5) to zone 4 and chaged pulse/gross settings and now alarm activates when front window gets vibration so thats great!
Front door was zone 1 (magnetic sensor only) I moved that to Z6 which was the upstairs windows and put upstairs window on to Z1 and again set pulse/gross and now upstairs windows(some) activates alarm on vibration which it hadnt done before. I was unaware of this fault. So all well there.
Now!
Next problem.
(A)I noticed that when I originally checked the sitting room sensors as a result of false activations there , blue wires were joined together just with the wires and were sitting in the sensor casing , but not connected to any terminal. I would have thought that if they were spare they should have been in a proper terminal junction box , wired properly, and the alarm/tamper cables run to the sensor from the junction box and looped on to the next and so on. But Thats ok for now as it working satisfactorily. just curious...
(B) the control panel is in the attic. Can I run a second RKP to the bedroom , is it fairly straight forward?
(C) I wanted to run a second Pir in the landing , is that fairly straight forward? I mean could you advise on the cs350 what terminals on the panel I should connect , both of these to? The reason for this is if I cannot find a fault on some of the window shocks the 2ND PIR would be a back up if you follow.

Lastly can you set up the walk test just to give a 'buzz' on the rkp or is it only on the (very loud) internal bell?

sorry for long message I just wanted to bring you up to speed on what I done to date!:o

altor

You seem to be flying along

Thats the way the cowboys use to do them :eek: You should put a connector block around the two cable ends.

Do you have a free zone for the second pir ?

You can add up to 4 keypad, it will be connected in with the first one in the panel. you will need to change the dip setting plus enroll it on to the system. Easy enough to do. Just make sure you power the panel down first.

If you need an engineer manual send me a P.M. with your e-mail and i will send it on to you.

Afraid not without disconnecting the internal bell from the panel.

Always good to hear how people are getting on with fixing there alarm so long or short message are always welcome

minder2009

Hi alton.
Thks for quick reply! U give me great confidence to keep going cheers:)

so the 2nd RKP , thats grand so I will just follow the colour code as the 1st and add the cables as they are in for that one(thats 12/13/14/15 on panel)-and set dipswitch for 2RKP. And then program it in.that sounds fine.
Just then the 2nd PIR. I am a bit lost there. There are 6 zones being used on the system already , I see a few free terminals ok , I wonder would you know how many 'zones' the CS350 has please? If its over 6 I am on the pigs back i think!

To Buy: a small connector to join the joined cable(cowboys!) in the front window shock sensor:
A RKP ( does this require a resistor for panel?)
A PIR - (resistor?) and cable.

Is that the lot do ya reckon?

Thks again

(P.S. Is there a digi dialler for this system I have no eircom line , was thinking of a txt dialler with sim (you can top up every six months , just to get the txt on activation - will need you for that one!I think they are very dear , just seeking your advice - your in leixlip I am in enfield - will start saving if there is a txt dialler available!!)

altor

The CS350 only has 6 zones so the second pir is not going to work.
The only way around this would be to upgrade the panel to get the extra zones. Not that big a job with all the help you will get here

You dont need a resistor for the second RKP, you just need to change the dip setting and enroll it on the alarm. A connector block will just keep the two cables together. Thats the way it should of being done.

You could get a dialer that will either send you a text or a prerecorded voice message once the alarm activates. Costs about €350.

minder2009

Altor
Thks again! Was only thinking of 2nd pir as upstairs to cover circuit not working. Getting near the end of all the questions now thks.

Upstairs is covered with 2 zones. Z1- Back bedroom windows and adjoining ensuite on shock sensors both working fine on walk test.

I walk test Z3 this morning and got no reaction from the other windows .i.e 2 on front /main bathroom/landing window.They are all shock sensors- (5 in total)

I presume that z2 is just the back windows.
Fault finding would be poor from my end!
In very plain terms what would be the handiest way to check out what the problem is here with these windows(z3). The fact that no error is coming in RKP , is that not unusual when the sensors are not working?

Regards

p.s! Just put on the alarm , and tested the windows in question , ie the front 2 and the landing , the alarm activated on the big front window but not the other 2, if that helps or hinders i dont know!

altor

It could be the gross and pulse setting on the zone, If you have engineer access to the alarm check this out. The zone might not be set up for shock sensors if you moved the zones around.
There would be no error warning if the cables and sensors are closed.

paddy147

Lads and lasses,can I just say that id like to recommend Altor for alarm instalations and alarm work.

He did an absolutely brilliant job on installing a new alarm system and dialer for my house.
Sound lad,great worker,very professional,clean and tidy and also very well priced too.

Thanks again Altor for the work done.My neighbour is going to ring you about an alarm for her house too.

Thanks again.:)

caesarthechimp

minder2009 wrote: »

Lastly can you set up the walk test just to give a 'buzz' on the rkp or is it only on the (very loud) internal bell?

Stick a strip of insulating tape across the holes of the siren when testing zones; much quieter
Maybe put 2 PIRs in series on the one zone?

minder2009

thks

Not too sure how to wire in a second pir 'in series' Is that the same as a second RKP , just duplicate the wires ?and program RKP?

Altor reckons that with the 6 zones used it cannot be done?

Would prefer to stay within the regs.

cheers

altor

Enrate wrote: »

Maybe put 2 PIRs in series on the one zone?

Not the way it should be done.

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

thks

Not too sure how to wire in a second pir 'in series' Is that the same as a second RKP , just duplicate the wires ?and program RKP?

Altor reckons that with the 6 zones used it cannot be done?

Would prefer to stay within the regs.

cheers

Two pirs on 1 zone is not the way they should be installed.

If you want to free up a zone you could join two of the shock zones together but make sure there is not more than 10 devices on one zone.

You could have 1 pir on zone 5, 1 pir on zone 6, front door contact on zone 1. That would leave you with 3 zones to put the shocks on.

caesarthechimp

altor wrote: »

You could have 1 pir on zone 5, 1 pir on zone 6, front door contact on zone 1. That would leave you with 3 zones to put the shocks on.

Thats a good way, if no PA or smoke detector is taking up a zone.
Whats the issue with 2 PIRs on one zone ? Either will cause an open circuit?

minder2009

Hi

Seems you cannot have 2 pir in series I am not going to do that.
I have an extra RKP in the bedrrom I think you can activate a 'pa' from that by pressing 2 buttons on it together thats grand.

I have (2) Zones upstairs. One zone is working ok.
The other is not working .Its not showing any fault on the RKP.

I wonder whats the best way to find the problem here.
I am going to start now , by going into engineer zone and taking off
the shock zones covers and check the wiring. If thats ok , I wonder whats the best next step to take.

KoolKid

Is Upstairs zone just staying closed?
A few things to start.
Are there just inertias? if so is the pulse & gross set for that zone.
Try disconnect the cables from the sensor & see if that registers open or a tamper.
How many cables are feeding upstairs? Seperate these & check continuity on each if you have a multi meter.

altor

Enrate wrote: »

Thats a good way

You do it your way, if you want to do it right do it my way.

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Hi

Seems you cannot have 2 pir in series I am not going to do that.
I have an extra RKP in the bedrrom I think you can activate a 'pa' from that by pressing 2 buttons on it together thats grand.

I have (2) Zones upstairs. One zone is working ok.
The other is not working .Its not showing any fault on the RKP.

I wonder whats the best way to find the problem here.
I am going to start now , by going into engineer zone and taking off
the shock zones covers and check the wiring. If thats ok , I wonder whats the best next step to take.

Disconnect the zones upstairs, remove the resistor if fitted. Put a meter on continuity on to the end of the cable. Disconnect the cables from the sensor and if the buzzing goes off you will know its connected. Reconnect the cable and move on to the next one. If it does not go off you will know its not connected to the zone in the panel. Most CS350 sensors are not tampered so opening then wont cause any alarm or indication in the panel.

minder2009

hi guys.
(I am doing the right way -only as far as i am concerned thks -altor - do ya which buttons on RKP for alarm to activate -pa)


Re-Upstairs. I seem to have 2 separate zones.

Firstly, Z1 - which is the Rear Main bedroom(2 shock zones) and the adjoining En Suite (1 shock zone) I have 2 cables into ensuite s/sensor then 2 on the nearest sensor (main bedroom window)and 1 in the last sensor on the rear bedrrom window. There are grand on walk test. This makes sense that its the one circuit.

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Now for the problem.. the next is Z3 which is I think is,the front bedroom (2 shock zones) front box room (1 s/sensor) and the landing (1 shock/sensor) and the Bathroom (1 shock sensor).
I decided to check the wiring on these sensors as I see that in the boxroom there is a junction box beside the s/sensor.

The cables appeared to have been closed into the junction box without an entry being made. On tugging a black cable it broke. Its so near to the top of the window I can get no slack and I cannot reconnect it properly.

I removed the cables from Z3(27/28) on panel and programmed Z3 to 'unused' so the alarm is ok now but no sensors working on this zones windows..

I traced the cable out of panel and have it marked in the attic to try trace it tomorrow. I am hoping that I can just re run a new cable and loop it to that window and connect to the junction box properly and in the panel and continue on testing (thks for advice on that altor)

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if the Z3 is as described above , i see at each end of the circuit (if its correct) ,a single cable , at each end , I would have thought that there should be only one cable at the end of the line if you follow?! I see one cable at the last sensor on front room window and one cable only in the bathroom window.

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I have a nagging feeling that maybe one of these sensors might be attached to the other upstairs zone (Z1) that doesnt make sense either!

again sorry for long thread!

altor

Yes, its the up down arrows together. You will need to activate it in the P.A menu as by default the keypad pa is off.

What you should do with the cable is disconnect zone 3 from the panel plus the sensors and test the cores in the cable. Join red with red, blue with blue and so on where there are two cables going into the sensor, the single cores will be the end of the cable like what you will have at the panel when you take it out of zone 3. Do the same with the cable in the junction box. Then use a different colour if you can to replace the black cable, might save you running a new cable

minder2009

Thks
Will go at it tonight after work.
I have Z3 disconnected in panel.Its a red and black that appears to be the alarm circuit.

The tamper seems to be yellow/blue.

The tamper circuit seems to be joined in insulation sheats in panel (Incl Z3)
Could i use the yellow /blue as alarm circuit at sensors for this particular zone to avoid running new cable?
And Just bypass the tamper altogether for this zone?
(If I can , will that make any difference if I join it to other upstairs zone-Z1 in panel) To use the new spare zone for PIR? (With 2 zones together there will be 9 s/sensors in total)

On your advice , I am going to try join upstairs on one circuit (will be 9 s/sensors in total).

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Thks
Will go at it tonight after work.
I have Z3 disconnected in panel.Its a red and black that appears to be the alarm circuit.

The tamper seems to be yellow/blue.

The tamper circuit seems to be joined in insulation sheats in panel (Incl Z3)
Could i use the yellow /blue as alarm circuit at sensors for this particular zone to avoid running new cable?
And Just bypass the tamper altogether for this zone?
(If I can , will that make any difference if I join it to other upstairs zone-Z1 in panel) To use the new spare zone for PIR? (With 2 zones together there will be 9 s/sensors in total)

On your advice , I am going to try join upstairs on one circuit (will be 9 s/sensors in total).

That is up to you but I would rather see you running the cable if there is no spare cores as the tamper is there for a reason.

minder2009

RE: Wiring Diagram attached .Sensor problem

If you could look at the diagram of the sensor/junction box - upstairs window.

If you can see the black wire is broken on the left hand cable. Both 4 core.

Red & black Alarm circuit
Blue & yellow tamper circuit (I think)

Looped onto further windows either side of this window. 5 shock zones in total on circuit.
Is there any option here , without running an extra cable? Absolutely no slack , cable flush to internal celing.
Cannot re connect the black at this location.
p.s. quoted 80 euro for extra RKP - for this system cs350 Aritech. Is that very dear??!!!

altor

Best thing to do is break away at the plaster, join another core of cable using a connector block on to the black core. Fill back over with filler.

The keypad is a good price.

minder2009

just looking in the control panel of my cs350.I see that the tamper circuit seems to be the yellow /blue cables just stuck together in sheaths. Does the tamper circuit have a connection in the actual panel to monitor it?

I would have thought that it must be connected into the panel in order to monitor any breaks in the circuit. Appreciate a bit of advice on this subject!