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Pharmacists call for 'morning-after pill' to be available over the counter

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13

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    #62
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Owwmykneecap wrote: »
    Nothing hysterical at all, Variants of the MAP are abortitive in that sense (though not availible here afaik) either way I asked a simple question, what is the definition of the start of life in Ireland?

    I always thought the start of life in Ireland was when you bought your first house?


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    #63
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I always thought the start of life in Ireland was when you bought your first house?

    First drink in a pub, isn't it?


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    #64
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Dionysus wrote: »
    €65 to get the morning after pill from your GP sounds like a conjob in any language. The medical profession is a bit like the legal profession: self regulating with perennial threats of chaos if their views aren't made law.

    Remember it was the Irish medical profession which was infamously against the Mother and Child scheme in the 1950s - "socialised medicine" - because it would reduce their income (which they dressed up in moral cloth).

    The new medical practitioners act ensures a non-medical majority in the medical council. Thus it's no longer a self regulating profession.

    Personally as a GP I feel allowing the MAP to be dispensed directly by pharmacists is a very good idea. Especially outside 9-5 and at weekends.

    I clearly remember when condoms had to be bought from pharmacies who often took great pleasure in refusing :rolleyes:


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    #65
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Personally as a GP I feel allowing the MAP to be dispensed directly by pharmacists is a very good idea. Especially outside 9-5 and at weekends

    Good news to hear that you think that way, Dr. Rob.

    I hope it's "professionally" as well as personally.


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    #66
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Good news to hear that you think that way, Dr. Rob.

    I hope it's "professionally" as well as personally.

    It is. My union (IMO) though still oppose it as they say it offers the doctor a chance to advise on longer term contraception and discuss STD's etc. I feel a pharmacist is qualified to do this.
    Having to see a doctor first acts more as a barrier and it's pretty much never refused unless the doctor has "ethical issues".
    Those that do refuse are supposed to refer on to a colleague who will prescribe it.


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    #67
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Owwmykneecap wrote: »
    Nothing hysterical at all, Variants of the MAP are abortitive in that sense (though not availible here afaik) either way I asked a simple question, what is the definition of the start of life in Ireland?
    Conception or implantation?

    It all seems pedantic to me.

    Do you mean the abortion pill?
    The MAP doesn't abort fetuses.


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    #68
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    storm2811 wrote: »
    Do you mean the abortion pill?
    The MAP doesn't abort fetuses.

    Correct it simply prevents fertilised egg's implanting in the uterus wall. (Something that happens naturally all the time).


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    #69
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    It really should be available.
    There would have to be a proper system in place though.
    Think women are only supposed to take it three times in their life.
    That's something I heard anyway.

    This country is rather backwards though.
    Anyone with asthma still needs to go to the doctor in order to get a prescription for an inhaler.
    While they are readily available over the counter in any other country.

    Really don't think anyone is going to try and overdose on an inhaler...


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    #70
    Owwmykneecap
    Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭Owwmykneecap


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    In that case you must be suggesting that various forms of contraceptive are also abortive because they too prevent implantation. An abortion is the surgical removal of a foetus from a pregnant woman - if you think that's what the MAP at > 70hrs post coitus is then I can only conclude your knee cap hurts from the speed of the jerk reaction.

    Wrong.
    "Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a foetus or embryo, resulting in or caused by its death"

    Abortion can be medical or surgical. As I said varients of MAP around the world can be abortifacient depending on the time they were taken.

    You took a kneejerk reaction to what I said because you perceive me as being anti MAP. I ain't

    Our constitution is based on Catholicism, (thanks DeV) and if it holds the catholic viewpoint that life beings at conception (not implantation) then MAP would surely be illegal? And that's what I asked at the start, what is the constitution's viewpoint?


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    #71
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Feck the MAP. How about making the Thrush antibiotic OTC! Ridiculous having to pay the bones of €75 for one tablet.


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    #72
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    Owwmykneecap wrote: »
    Our constitution is based on Catholicism, (thanks DeV) and if it holds the catholic viewpoint that life beings at conception (not implantation) then MAP would surely be illegal? And that's what I asked at the start, what is the constitution's viewpoint?

    Prime example of why religion and the law should not mix


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    #73
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Demonique


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    But then at the same time while I totally disagree with it should the doctor be forced to overrule their own personal moral code to practice?

    Shouldn't have become a doctor then. If someone CAN'T DO THEIR JOB then they shouldn't pursue a career in that field


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    #74
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    It really should be available.
    There would have to be a proper system in place though.
    Think women are only supposed to take it three times in their life.
    That's something I heard anyway.

    This country is rather backwards though.
    Anyone with asthma still needs to go to the doctor in order to get a prescription for an inhaler.
    While they are readily available over the counter in any other country.

    Really don't think anyone is going to try and overdose on an inhaler...

    So if you taught you had asthma which one of the 20 or so inhalers would you like to buy without having gone to your Doctor? The Doctor, having done a full check up, measured your lung function, used a peak flow meter etc. will determine which type of inhaler and which strength of inhaler is best for you. Pharmacists don't even have the knowledge to chose an inhaler for a patient. Do you? I doubt it.


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    #75
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    up for anything wrote: »
    Feck the MAP. How about making the Thrush antibiotic OTC! Ridiculous having to pay the bones of €75 for one tablet.

    Thrush is a fungal infection. Anti-biotics will do nothing to treat it.

    There are treatments for both external (cream) and internal (vaginal pessaries) which will sufficently treat thrush. Both of which are less than 20e.


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    #76
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    Really don't think anyone is going to try and overdose on an inhaler...

    They do and far more often than you'd think.


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    #77
    angeldelight
    Registered Users Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭angeldelight


    ebixa82 wrote: »
    Thrush is a fungal infection. Anti-biotics will do nothing to treat it.

    There are treatments for both external (cream) and internal (vaginal pessaries) which will sufficently treat thrush. Both of which are less than 20e.

    The poster you quoted was referring to the oral once off dose of fluconazole 150mg for thrush which is available OTC in the UK.

    Both are things I think should be available OTC. As a pharmacist I'd feel comfortable in having the knowledge to advise on both and I would presume if they do become available there will be certain guidelines regulating their sale which we would have to follow anyway. Having had to take the MAP many years ago I would have honestly done anything other than have to speak to a man about it so at least any girls/women who feel the same could pop into a pharmacy - see who is behind the counter and decide whether they feel comfortable or not.


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    #78
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Isn't it recommend not to take the MAP more than a few times a year?

    As far as I'm aware that has been debunked, but that doesn't mean you should take it every other day or anything.

    I've never had to take it thank god, but I've friends that have some very bad experiences with health care professionals in relation to it.


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    #79
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Would it be open to such abuse as a regular - as in, fortnightly for instance - method of contraception though? That seems unlikely, but just my opinion. It's fecking shyte having to get it - not an experience most want to have to repeat unless absolutely necessary as a result of an accident/a mistake.


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    #80
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Dudess wrote: »
    Would it be open to such abuse as a regular - as in, fortnightly for instance - method of contraception though? That seems unlikely, but just my opinion. It's fecking shyte having to get it - not an experience most want to have to repeat unless absolutely necessary as a result of an accident/a mistake.

    It wouldn't concern me if people did or didn't abuse it to tell you the truth. If they make it over the OTC it would be a step forward in removing the red tape from the reproductive and contraceptive rights of Irish women.


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    #81
    Novella
    Registered Users Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Novella, surely it isn't just about the cost. It's about whether you need to seek permission from a doctor before taking the MAP, with all the time constraints and everything else involved.

    Are your friends "abusing" it under the current system?

    I wouldn't say they are abusing it, because they're poor students and going to the doctor is practically a luxury. However, the majority do have a very blasé attitude towards contraception and I think that if the MAP were to be available OTC it would only lead to people becoming even more careless.


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    #82
    Noodleworm
    Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Noodleworm


    For something expensive, that messes up your cycle, can make you feel sick, is it really that likely to be "abused".
    Its still embarrassing to go to a pharmacist. The doctor wouldn't talk to you about anything other than ask embarrassing questions about why you need it.
    I dunno we throw in condoms for the price perhaps?


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    #83
    Rothmans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    Owwmykneecap wrote: »
    Morning after pills shouldn't even be legal in this country, if the literal life beings at conception schtick is followed.

    Anyone know when life "begins" legally here? Conception? Implantation?

    Not true.
    The courts have ruled that life does not begin at conception, but implantation. So, in the eyes of the law ( according to Case law), the MAP is legit.

    Hears a link for anybody that wants some bedtime reading
    http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ie/cases/IESC/2009/S82.html&query=Roche&method=boolean

    The term "unborn" does not refer to an unimplanted embryo


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    #84
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    ebixa82 wrote: »
    So if you taught you had asthma which one of the 20 or so inhalers would you like to buy without having gone to your Doctor? The Doctor, having done a full check up, measured your lung function, used a peak flow meter etc. will determine which type of inhaler and which strength of inhaler is best for you. Pharmacists don't even have the knowledge to chose an inhaler for a patient. Do you? I doubt it.

    Emmm do you have asthma?

    Obviously if you go to the doctor with issues relating to asthma, you know what type of inhaler you should be using.
    You don't need to be paying the doctor to tell you this every 6 months....


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    #85
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    Emmm do you have asthma?

    Obviously if you go to the doctor with issues relating to asthma, you know what type of inhaler you should be using.
    You don't need to be paying the doctor to tell you this every 6 months....
    As people get older then there lung function changes, be it for worse or better. If you don't get your situation reviewed and your lung function disimproves then you may well be using a steroid inhaler which is doing fcuk all good for you....as with the solpadeine thread going on alot of people seem to think they know better than their GP or Pharmacist about disease states, illnesses and
    Medication....


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    #86
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    candy-gal1 wrote: »
    This should be definitly, It shouldnt be taken advantage of on a daily/weekly basis as anyone with half a brain knows that if you take it too much then you can become immune to it and it stops working[/B][/B].


    That is an urban legend I'm afraid...designed to keep promiscuous girls from using it to often. No doubt a high dose of hormones will fcuk with your cycle but no chance of becoming "immune".


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    #87
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    angeldelight wrote: »
    Having had to take the MAP many years ago I would have honestly done anything other than have to speak to a man about it so at least any girls/women who feel the same could pop into a pharmacy - see who is behind the counter and decide whether they feel comfortable or not.

    If you were mature enough to get naked and get your jig on with a man surely you should be mature enough to request the MAP?

    I'm sure most girls wouldn't care less if it was a man or women handing out the MAP as long as the end result is no bun in the oven a few months later..


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    #88
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    angeldelight wrote: »
    Having had to take the MAP many years ago I would have honestly done anything other than have to speak to a man about it so at least any girls/women who feel the same could pop into a pharmacy - see who is behind the counter and decide whether they feel comfortable or not.

    That is genuinely hilarious - and i dont mean to offend you personally; it is such a common reaction, especially in Ireland, so its not just you, but the irony is truly spectacular. We seem perfectly able (ready & willing...) to do the most intimate acts (often to people we probably know less well than our doctor:eek:) yet we balk at the idea of talking about it in an entirely confidential therapeutic setting to our doctor, at the risk of pregnancy and even ill-health.

    Remarkable feature of the human condition, really.


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    #89
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    candy-gal1 wrote: »
    This should be definitly, It shouldnt be taken advantage of on a daily/weekly basis as anyone with half a brain knows that if you take it too much then you can become immune to it and it stops working.
    Urban myth- as below.
    ebixa82 wrote: »
    That is an urban legend I'm afraid...designed to keep promiscuous girls from using it to often. No doubt a high dose of hormones will fcuk with your cycle but no chance of becoming "immune".
    It contains a high dose of hormones that can seriously affect your body and mood but there is 0 chance that prolonged use will reduce effectiveness (it may impact fertility)


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    #90
    candy-gal1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭candy-gal1


    i stand corrected! lol :o


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    #91
    charmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭charmer


    Dudess wrote: »
    Would it be open to such abuse as a regular - as in, fortnightly for instance - method of contraception though? That seems unlikely, but just my opinion. It's fecking shyte having to get it - not an experience most want to have to repeat unless absolutely necessary as a result of an accident/a mistake.

    MAP is only effective once per cycle, so fortnightly- no.

    Although one thing that really must be adressed if it is to become OTC is how ill-informed the general public is about it. I've heard so many myths about it that are completely untrue, (and i'll admit I believed some), it really is important that girls know exactly what it is and how it works before getting/taking it.

    Noodleworm wrote: »
    For something expensive, that messes up your cycle, can make you feel sick, is it really that likely to be "abused".
    Its still embarrassing to go to a pharmacist. The doctor wouldn't talk to you about anything other than ask embarrassing questions about why you need it.
    I dunno we throw in condoms for the price perhaps?

    As others have mentioned, if you're mature enough to do the deed you really should be mature enough to go to your pharmacist. If not, i'd question whether you have the appropriate mental/emotional capacity to have sex in the first place.
    And as for these "embarassing questions", questioning the timing/contraceptive circumstances of your sexual encounter is AFAIK for medical purposes, don't think it's for the doc to fap over later. :rolleyes:
    Not a personal attack on you btw, just a general observation.


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