Cycling on Footpaths - last word

neris

Any one listening to this? I havent seen alot of people on footpaths cycling.

HardyEustace

neris wrote: »

Any one listening to this? I havent seen alot of people on footpaths cycling.

I live in Galway and I constantly see it. It's a constant source of annoyance. There are people on the prom the whole time, people cycling on all the bridge pavements (where there's f**k all room), people on the pavement from Galway Crystal to Doughiska/Roscam (where the is a hard shoulder and plenty of room).

I still have a scar on my arm where a great, big lazy lump of a woman of about twenty something cycled into me. Thank God I wasn't someone old, infirm or pregnant or it could've been far worse then a very bruised arm, a bruised cocyx (she knocked me flat on my back and winded me) and several layers of skin on her bike. She was on the prom at the time in very crowded weather and ploughed straight into the an entire group of runners.

I don't mind if people are on their first set of teeth (i.e. about under seven).

If you don't have the confidence or ability to cycle on the road, you shouldn't be on the bike.

Cabaal

I see it in Waterford a fair bit, I'll never understand it though as Waterford is pretty easy going to cycle around.

Its actually more of a pain to get around if you cycle on footpaths as far as I can see, but then again these same idiots break red lights all the time

Raam

I see it all the time in Dublin along the coast where the track between Sutton and Clontarf disappears.

neris

Raam wrote: »

I see it all the time in Dublin along the coast where the track between Sutton and Clontarf disappears.

I change my observations. I forgot about that area. Though they never mentioned in the interview the amount of people walking in cycle lanes

Raam

neris wrote: »

I change my observations. I forgot about that area. Though they never mentioned in the interview the amount of people walking in cycle lanes

I see that all the time too.

Actually, this morning I saw someone driving a moped down the off road cycle track chatting to a cyclist beside him.

Manic Preacher

<snip>

Raam

Manic Preacher wrote: »

<snip>

Can I have a car which only has two thin wheels, one seat, no engine and requires leg power to operate?

ednwireland

Manic Preacher wrote: »

<snip>

you could call them roads !

well that mod snip makes my witty comment seem a bit weird
better not mention that i'm going to cycle slowly a 100 yards to avoid going the 200 yards round the whole town and avoid the 10 cars driving round it !

Chips Lovell

I see it pretty much every day in Dublin.

Tonyandthewhale

It's rife in Galway, possibly because just about every cycle-lane in the town is on a footpath and the impression has emerged that that's where bikes belong.

rebel.ranter

More walkers (walkists?) walk in cycling lanes than cyclists cycle on footpaths I'd say. It's far more annoying, at least if a cyclist is on a footpath you can just walk in the middle of the path & they get the message, there's no such remedy for a cycle lane. It is especially prevalent where they site a cycle track in parallel with a footpath. People get thick with you for cycling on "their" walking path???

DirkVoodoo

Yeah I see it a lot, I don't mind it if it's kids but some people fly down pavements, hop on and off cycle tracks without looking and generally behave like idiots.

Like the chap said, if you can't cycle on the road then get off and walk or use the bus.

I've seen people fly around bends at speed on bikes, the more this is clamped down on by the Gardai the better. That and no lights are two things that bug me, RLJing is highly subjective for me, turning left on red or cautiously going through a red pedestrian light with no one crossing it is not quite the same as breezing though a 4 way junction without looking.

Manic Preacher

Cycling on footpaths is not allowed in the official rules of the road. So are there any fines for doing it or any other punishments? Cyclists seem to forget that there are rules for them as well. I see lots of them breaking red lights as well

DirkVoodoo

Manic Preacher wrote: »

Cycling on footpaths is not allowed in the official rules of the road. So are there any fines for doing it or any other punishments? Cyclists seem to forget that there are rules for them as well. I see lots of them breaking red lights as well

I don't think anyone forgets, but people tend to flaunt rules that aren't enforced, or do all those learner drivers have an accompanying driver locked away in the trunk?

HardyEustace

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

It's rife in Galway, possibly because just about every cycle-lane in the town is on a footpath and the impression has emerged that that's where bikes belong.

Good point. Cycle lanes in Galway are an absolute joke. They're so badly designed and so dangerous. I prefer to cycle on the road than risk having someone reversing over me on the bike from their driveway.

I think it's also because Galway is such a popular tourist spot. I've lost count of the amount of tourists that have almost run me over as they try to cycle their bikes from the spanish arch to the claddagh via the tiny footpath which is already crowded people.

Not enough rolly eyes... <sigh>

It's such a shame because it's a relatively small city with a lot of traffic problems. With a bit of investment in cycle lanes, you could make so many places so accessible and really make a difference in the quality of life in the city to a lot of people.

QueensGael

I cycle to work in Dublin every day, and it really bugs me to see the number of people cycling on the paths. The paths are already jammed with pedestrian commuters, and people waiting at bus stops/coming out of the DART, so then these arseholes are popping on and off the streets, liable to crash into old ladies (I hope to be one, someday) and other pedestrians.

It also pisses me off how many cyclists blast through pedestrian lights; pedestrians have an expectation of safety when they are walking across designated safe zones!

Also, here's my next one - people cycling the wrong direction on the streets! I nearly got mashed by a bus on the Ringsend Road/McMahon bridge when some muppet popped up over the hump of the bridge on my side. Idiot!

Bottom line, if you're too stupid/scared to cycle on the roadway, on the correct side (left in Ireland) and stop at lights, you should probably use the bus.

Chips Lovell

Manic Preacher wrote: »

Cycling on footpaths is not allowed in the official rules of the road. So are there any fines for doing it or any other punishments? Cyclists seem to forget that there are rules for them as well. I see lots of them breaking red lights as well

Cycling on the footpath and breaking red lights are both illegal and you can be brought to court and fined.

neris

went out for a cycle bout 7 this morn down the malahide road. passed out by 3 cyclists at various lights. 2 very busy crossroads and a T junction.

BostonB

If there little or no enforcement, then people will do it.

All these threads come done to that.

Moflojo

HardyEustace wrote: »

Good point. Cycle lanes in Galway are an absolute joke. They're so badly designed and so dangerous. I prefer to cycle on the road than risk having someone reversing over me on the bike from their driveway.

I think it's also because Galway is such a popular tourist spot. I've lost count of the amount of tourists that have almost run me over as they try to cycle their bikes from the spanish arch to the claddagh via the tiny footpath which is already crowded people.

Not enough rolly eyes... <sigh>

It's such a shame because it's a relatively small city with a lot of traffic problems. With a bit of investment in cycle lanes, you could make so many places so accessible and really make a difference in the quality of life in the city to a lot of people.

All the cycle lanes in the world won't stop it raining 360 days a year in that city! I reckon that puts plenty of people off cycling.

Rob A. Bank

Moflojo wrote: »

All the cycle lanes in the world won't stop it raining 360 days a year in that city! I reckon that puts plenty of people off cycling.

MMmmm... absolutely no need to be so negative ! The level of rainfall in Galway is the same as Bray, Greystones, North Belfast or Cork.

Moflojo

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

MMmmm... absolutely no need to be so negative ! The level of rainfall in Galway is the same as Bray, Greystones, North Belfast or Cork.

Nerd...;)

NuMarvel

It is becoming a more common sight around Dublin. The best I've seen yet is someone cycling towards me on the quay side footpath of Wellington Quay which is barely wide enough for two people, never mind me and a cyclist.

And with the advent of dublinbikes (a superb scheme, btw), I've seen a new breed of cyclists who ring bells at paedestrians. While cycling on the footpath...

It would be nice to see more enforcement and see Gardaí stop cyclists who are cycling on footpaths, tearing through red lights, etc. But similarly I'd like to see more enforcement on the other side of the fence too, e.g. cars parked in cycle lanes and so on.

droidus

My first experience of dublin bikes involved dodging 8 Spanish students cycling along the pavement past the crowded bus stops at the college green end of Dame st.

fenris

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

MMmmm... absolutely no need to be so negative ! The level of rainfall in Galway is the same as Bray, Greystones, North Belfast or Cork.

But in the Wesht it rains during the day while on the east coast it mostly rains at night!

monument

What's a cycle track? What's a footpath?


































At least some of the blame should be put on the planners.

CheGuedara

I particularly like this one



Slalom around the bin then, assuming you've passed it without clipping it, swoop around lamp post - the route and difficulty being modified by either the presence of pedestrians on the footpath or busses stopping for passengers.

Solid gold, grade A gassness

monument

The interview on the Last Word with Mike McKillen of Cyclist.ie and the Dublin Cycle Campaign is here:

It starts at 16.50 on this MP3 (direct link) or try saving to your PC from here, the file is named "LW310810part1".

I was just talking to Mike yesterday (Monday) on the related issue of on-footpath marking for cyclists, as above.

NuMarvel

monument wrote: »

At least some of the blame should be put on the planners.

I think in the case of the examples you showed, putting some of the blame on planners would be leaving planners off lightly. Some of those are shocking!

Doctor Bob

monument wrote: »

At least some of the blame should be put on the planners.

NuMarvel wrote: »

I think in the case of the examples you showed, putting some of the blame on planners would be leaving planners off lightly. Some of those are shocking!

Minor correction- I know a significant number of planners (I presume we're talking about town planners), and not one of them has ever designed a cycle track, good or bad. Roads engineers and roads designers are generally responsible for the design.

monument wrote: »

The interview on the Last Word with Mike McKillen of Cyclist.ie and the Dublin Cycle Campaign is here:

It starts at 16.50 on this MP3 (direct link) or try saving to your PC from here, the file is named "LW310810part1".

I was just talking to Mike yesterday (Monday) on the related issue of on-footpath marking for cyclists, as above.

Vehicular cycling for 10 year olds? I can see that going down well with the mammies and daddies of Ireland. :rolleyes:

As for his final point about mixed footpaths/cycle tracks (and notwithstanding the shocking examples posted here and elsewhere), he argued that cyclists get confused when facilities appear and disappear, or go from on-road to off-road, at random, which really doesn't stand up to scrutiny- it's far more likely that many/most cyclists know full well they're cycling on the footpath if there's no lane marked.

Today, on my ride home going south along the Merrion Road, I saw two cyclists cycling together (one on a road bike, the other on a mountain bike) break three sets of lights in a row- Jury's, the American Embassy, and the main junction in Ballsbridge (in case you're wondering, I kept pace with them for most of the way despite obeying all lights, etc.). Then - the piece de resistance - when the traffic got tight due to roadworks, the mountain biker hopped up at speed onto the busy footpath outside the AIB HQ and, approaching the junction with Serpentine Avenue, gave the hand signal for turning left! What's that supposed to be? Cycling with due care and attention? Eh... full marks, fella, for remembering to signal so the pedestrians know which way to scatter.:rolleyes: (The roadie, somewhat more conventionally, just broke the lights while staying on road.)

*sigh*

Tools.

monument

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Minor correction- I know a significant number of planners (I presume we're talking about town planners), and not one of them has ever designed a cycle track, good or bad. Roads engineers and roads designers are generally responsible for the design.

I'm using "planners", maybe wrongly because of the named position town planner, as a general term meaning those involved with planning and design. Town planners may not have done the detailed design of a cycle track, but maybe they have put plans in saying put a cycle track here or there maybe often where there is no space to do so and no plan to make enough room for a decent cycle track?

I also don't think road engineers or designers are fully at fault -- it's a system of things which creates poor designs or the wrong designs in the wrong places.

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Vehicular cycling for 10 year olds? I can see that going down well with the mammies and daddies of Ireland. :rolleyes:

I'm trying to remember, but I think I was cycling at 11 or 12 to school, cycling on the roads generally around the same time. I was one of the few / only who did. It depends on the roads it depends on a lot really. But ten seems a bit young even to me.

Doctor Bob wrote: »

As for his final point about mixed footpaths/cycle tracks (and notwithstanding the shocking examples posted here and elsewhere), he argued that cyclists get confused when facilities appear and disappear, or go from on-road to off-road, at random, which really doesn't stand up to scrutiny- it's far more likely that many/most cyclists know full well they're cycling on the footpath if there's no lane marked.

I have to agree with you on this, however if there's no harm in cyclists using the shared use why would cyclists think there is any harm cycling on other footpaths?

Remember many of the examples above and elsewhere are just footpaths with cycle lane marking etc put on them. All of the above are legally just footpaths. All of them have taken space away from pedestrians, although this also applies to many legal off-roadway cycle tracks -- enough space is often not left for both pedestrians and cyclists.

HivemindXX

Doctor Bob wrote: »

As for his final point about mixed footpaths/cycle tracks (and notwithstanding the shocking examples posted here and elsewhere), he argued that cyclists get confused when facilities appear and disappear, or go from on-road to off-road, at random, which really doesn't stand up to scrutiny- it's far more likely that many/most cyclists know full well they're cycling on the footpath if there's no lane marked.

I think we can mostly agree that there are plenty of unsuitable on path cycle facilities. Unsuitable for pedestrians as well as cyclists because they are not wide enough for cyclists to easily pass, for example, a person with a pram.

If you tell people that it's completely out of order to cycle on this busy footpath but it's a-ok to cycle on that one due to the lick of paint down the middle then some of them are going to think that the prohibition on cycling on any footpath isn't really meant seriously. The lack of enforcement and commonality of this behaviour will reinforce that opinion.

No matter how wrong there is a big difference between what's illegal and what people think is wrong. Most people think it's ok to take a pencil from the stationary in work although it's actually theft. Plenty of people think it's ok to park their car on the footpath "just for a minute" while they are in the shop although this is a similar offence under the law to footpath cycling.

I think plenty of people realise that it's illegal to cycle on the footpath but don't see anything wrong with it (because there's no enforcement, lots of people do it, it's fine for some paths but not others...).

You can change peoples opinion of whether an action is right or wrong but it takes time. You have to start somewhere and starting to tell people it's wrong and some enforcement is the way to do this. A cycling PSA that mentions footpath cycling as being illegal and inconsiderate to pedestrians (complete with clip of a courier whipping past a granny). If it doesn't already exist, a highly visible notice of the expectations (don't cycle on the footpath, stop at lights, pay attention) for Dublin Bike users at the parking stations.

BostonB

Would Prime time to do a piece on these dangerous/confusing cycle lanes?

QueensGael

Prime Time did a program on cycling in Dublin earlier this year. From what I could see, it was a piece on scaring the bejaysus out of people; they covered some pretty terrible accident stories about people being hit by trucks on the quays in Dublin (must have been before the HGV ban). There wasn't much on the benefits of cycling as far as I could remember.

Someone mentioned a PSA campaign on footpath cycling - I think it's high time for one.

BostonB

QueensGael wrote: »

...
Someone mentioned a PSA campaign on footpath cycling - I think it's high time for one.

Was someone killed? Is there a rise in accidents?

Cops should enforce the laws if its a problem. People break lights and cycle on the path, because they can with almost no chance of being pulled for doing it.

ThisRegard

QueensGael wrote: »

Prime Time did a program on cycling in Dublin earlier this year. From what I could see, it was a piece on scaring the bejaysus out of people; they covered some pretty terrible accident stories about people being hit by trucks on the quays in Dublin (must have been before the HGV ban). There wasn't much on the benefits of cycling as far as I could remember.

Since then Capital D had an episode about the same and was much more positive.

Sunnyisland

We dont have a proper/dedicated Garda Traffic corps, which could deal with exclusively traffic wrongs, in the first month they would have there expenditure back with the fines they could hand out, its a complete joke the enforcement of traffic laws in this country,

ThisRegard

realies wrote: »

We dont have a proper/dedicated Garda Traffic corps, which could deal with exclusively traffic wrongs,

We do ! Well in Dublin anyway
http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=110&Lang=1

Mucco

In Japan, with cycling levels similar to Holland, everyone cycles on the footpath nearly all the time. Pedestrians don't seem to be bothered by it.

Lumen

Mucco wrote: »

In Japan, with cycling levels similar to Holland, everyone cycles on the footpath nearly all the time. Pedestrians don't seem to be bothered by it.

Yeah, but they're used to that sort of kamikaze behaviour.

Ant

Last Thursday while I was strolling along the North Circular Road near St. Peter's church, I had to dart out of the way because a car was driving while straddling both footpath and road. :eek:

I was tempted to start a traditional Friday thread giving out about motorists driving on footpathds as I haven't yet seen that one since I joined the Cycling forum. Unfortunately, I was kept busy at work on Friday.

While I don't mind the very young and the very old* cycling at slow speeds on footpaths, I have no time for ignorant cyclists who cycle quickly around pedestrians. While they may be in control of their bike, it can be quite alarming for a pedestrian to be closely passed by a bike travelling at 20km/h particularly when they don't hear the bike approaching. Cycling on the road FTW.

*I wouldn't like to condemn senior citizens to being dependent on Irish public transport in the latter years of their life. And the kids have to learn somewhere.

bbosco

Mucco wrote: »

In Japan, with cycling levels similar to Holland, everyone cycles on the footpath nearly all the time. Pedestrians don't seem to be bothered by it.

I once spent a very enjoyable day cycling around Kyoto.
Cyclists even seem to have right of way on the footpaths. Cyclists ring their bells and the pedestrians get out of the way. It felt wrong at first, but all the locals were doing it, so, I joined in - just have to remember to bow your head in thanks.

DaveyDave

I cycle on paths when there's no cycle lane, but I give way to pedestrians and slow right down when around them so I don't crash into them or get in their way. I can't blame others for doing so, drivers are wánkers and cycle lanes are rubbish, people walk on them anyway. I should get a picture of the cycle path near me, a bus shelter every few hundred meters in the middle of the ****ing path.

On the other hand, I was walking down Cork St. a few months ago and some tool was speeding down and almost hit me, never mind the cycle lane on the road with plenty of space.

petethedrummer

DaveyDave wrote: »

On the other hand, I was walking down Cork St. a few months ago and some tool was speeding down and almost hit me, never mind the cycle lane on the road with plenty of space.

Some parts of it run very close to parked cars.

el Bastardo

I proscribe to the Nippon way - At certain times of day, it's just safer and faster. I really don't care about the legality of it. I observe pedestrians and give way to them, and the few that complain are aul' bags that complain just because they can (They'll be the same ones that jaywalk). There are good as no cycle paths in Cork city and the few that I have used nearly broke the wheels trying to get on and off them (Converted footpaths, painted red with trees growing in the middle of them!).

DaveyDave wrote: »

I cycle on paths when there's no cycle lane, but I give way to pedestrians and slow right down when around them so I don't crash into them or get in their way. I can't blame others for doing so, drivers are wánkers and cycle lanes are rubbish, people walk on them anyway. I should get a picture of the cycle path near me, a bus shelter every few hundred meters in the middle of the ****ing path.

On the other hand, I was walking down Cork St. a few months ago and some tool was speeding down and almost hit me, never mind the cycle lane on the road with plenty of space.

Dandelion6

Isn't there also an issue here about the number of one-way streets (in Dublin at least - I don't know the rest of the country well enough). Sometimes it's just about impossible to get to your destination without either going well out of your way, the wrong way down the street or on the footpath. It's hardly surprising so many cyclists choose the last option.

I'm not saying that justifies it, mind, but it's something that should be looked at.

Lumen

Roadies do not cycle on footpaths, therefore the Final Solution to this problem is the elimination of all non-roadie modes of cycling.

I therefore propose a ban on the manufacture, sale or importation of all flat-handlebar bikes, cyclocross bikes and componentry related to either category.

Chips Lovell

el Bastardo wrote: »

I proscribe to the Nippon way - At certain times of day, it's just safer and faster. I really don't care about the legality of it.

If you don't feel safe enough cycling on the road, you really shouldn't be on a bike.

Dandelion6 wrote: »

Isn't there also an issue here about the number of one-way streets (in Dublin at least - I don't know the rest of the country well enough). Sometimes it's just about impossible to get to your destination without either going well out of your way, the wrong way down the street or on the footpath. It's hardly surprising so many cyclists choose the last option.

Every vehicle, not just bikes, has to take a longer way around because of one way streets.

el Bastardo

el tonto wrote: »

If you don't feel safe enough cycling on the road, you really shouldn't be on a bike.

Rubbish! Having been knocked off my bike through no fault of my own, I quickly came to the conclusion that some things are beyond my control. It's not so much a matter of my feeling safe as being safe. I do usually use the road, but as I said, there are times when it's just silly season. It's that old conundrum of motorists telling you to get off the road and pedestrians telling you to get off the footpath - You can't win, so why bother trying?!

el tonto wrote: »

Every vehicle, not just bikes, has to take a longer way around because of one way streets.

Sure, but other vehicles get there faster in free flowing traffic. Where I live, I'd have to cycle up several hills and go well out of my way instead of taking a quickcut down a one way.

Lumen

el Bastardo wrote: »

Rubbish! Having been knocked off my bike through no fault of my own, I quickly came to the conclusion that some things are beyond my control. It's not so much a matter of my feeling safe as being safe. I do usually use the road, but as I said, there are times when it's just silly season. It's that old conundrum of motorists telling you to get off the road and pedestrians telling you to get off the footpath - You can't win, so why bother trying?!

The fact that you frame the problem in terms of what other people are telling you to do indicates that there's something basically wrong with your approach to road cycling.

You can win by doing what's safe and legal, which to cycle on the road. You will get the odd gob****e driver shouting at you for doing something perfectly legal, but following the orders of gob****es is no way to live one's life.