The bliss of an 18-month, paid, Swedish paternity leave.

The Highwayman

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Will your Aston Martin be working in 30 or 40 years time, paying taxes to fund state pensions?

Go back and read my post again and maybe another time.

My point was about the taxpayer funding a 18 month holiday for the birth of a child so a father can bond with his child. This is waisted money to everybody except the father one would imagine.

This time will have no bearing on whether the child is working or paying tax in 30/40 years time sure they might leave the country the day they are 18. So its just a waist of money and a major pain for employers especially in the private sector, believe me I know.

This is just another example of the sense of entitlement in this country that is just wrong. You have a kid, well done now go and show a good example work hard and teach them right from wrong.

Where did the need for this time off come from? How many people posting here on boards had their dad off for a year and a half when they were an infant? Even if both your folks were not working at the time you would not even remember it. This time off is not about the child its about the parent. So if you get this holiday can I get my sports car?

Cavehill Red

The Highwayman wrote: »

Go back and read my post again and maybe another time.

My point was about the taxpayer funding a 18 month holiday for the birth of a child so a father can bond with his child. This is waisted money to everybody except the father one would imagine.

This time will have no bearing on whether the child is working or paying tax in 30/40 years time sure they might leave the country the day they are 18. So its just a waist of money and a major pain for employers especially in the private sector, believe me I know.

This is just another example of the sense of entitlement in this country that is just wrong. You have a kid, well done now go and show a good example work hard and teach them right from wrong.

Where did the need for this time off come from? How many people posting here on boards had their dad off for a year and a half when they were an infant? Even if both your folks were not working at the time you would not even remember it. This time off is not about the child its about the parent. So if you get this holiday can I get my sports car?

I'm not reading it again - it was idiotic enough the first time.
The whole of Europe is experiencing falling birth rates and higher life expectancies. The result, in a very few decades, is the Japanese problem of insufficient people of working age to pay for all those who are not able to work.
That is why we as a society provide support for child-rearing and not for your sportscar.

The Highwayman

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm not reading it again - it was idiotic enough the first time.
The whole of Europe is experiencing falling birth rates and higher life expectancies. The result, in a very few decades, is the Japanese problem of insufficient people of working age to pay for all those who are not able to work.
That is why we as a society provide support for child-rearing and not for your sportscar.

Fine, there is support for children, tax breaks and children's allowance and such. But that does not mean you should get a year and a half off from the world at my expence to play daddy. Surely if you are worried about falling tax revenue then you should not be taking this time off but rather working harder?

Some european countries are showing a falling birth rate but the population of the planet is said to hit 20 billion in the next century so do me a favour and dont tell me your saving the species. I dont know what age I'll be able to retire 67-72 who knows. Therefore generating more tax and less pension payments.

My mums from a family of 8 and my dad of 7, people dont do that any more so yes the populations will fall. there was nearly 8 million people in Ireland in 1845 when people had 10+ children.

I dont care how many kids you have but its a joke to expect 18 months off for each one. You could have 7 and half years off in a row if you had 5 kids and get paid for it! Give me a break

Cavehill Red

The Highwayman wrote: »

Give me a break

Yes, this does seem to be your running theme, akin to the distressed mortgagees crying 'Where's my NAMA?'
You want a sports car, you want your break. You object to paternity leave because you yourself don't avail of it.
Well, I don't avail of Breastcheck either, but I don't begrudge paying taxes for it. Or for schools in Kerry I'll never attend, or for disability payments because I'm not in a wheelchair.
That's because, unlike you, I recognise myself as a member of society.

The Highwayman

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yes, this does seem to be your running theme, akin to the distressed mortgagees crying 'Where's my NAMA?'
You want a sports car, you want your break. You object to paternity leave because you yourself don't avail of it.
Well, I don't avail of Breastcheck either, but I don't begrudge paying taxes for it. Or for schools in Kerry I'll never attend, or for disability payments because I'm not in a wheelchair.
That's because, unlike you, I recognise myself as a member of society.

Nama?

Can you say non-sequitur?

I asked you already, where did the need for this time off come from?

Cavehill Red

The Highwayman wrote: »

Nama?

Can you say non-sequitur?

I asked you already, where did the need for this time off come from?

From the Scandinavian concept of parental equity. Unlike Dark Ages Ireland, where mothers are still treated in law as superior parents, in Scandinavia fathers have equivalent right to mothers.
Therefore, both parents are given the right to bond with their child in its crucial early development.
Presumably you also oppose maternal leave?

The Highwayman

Cavehill Red wrote: »

From the Scandinavian concept of parental equity. Unlike Dark Ages Ireland, where mothers are still treated in law as superior parents, in Scandinavia fathers have equivalent right to mothers.
Therefore, both parents are given the right to bond with their child in its crucial early development.
Presumably you also oppose maternal leave?

You did not answer my question.
I'm aware of where it comes from as in the title of the thread.
Where did the need for this time off come from?

Also the pedantic air of your last post you would come across as someone who would shout 'wheres my nama' because you seem to be shouting 'where's my paternity leave'.

As an employer this sort of leave is very difficult to work around but I would suppose this would not be something you would care about as its all about you 'eh.


Oh and your free to leave Dark Ages Ireland any time you want

Cavehill Red

The Highwayman wrote: »

You did not answer my question.
I'm aware of where it comes from as in the title of the thread.
Where did the need for this time off come from?

From research indicating the importance of early parental bonding with children as crucial aids to their development.

The Highwayman wrote: »

Also the pedantic air of your last post you would come across as someone who would shout 'wheres my nama' because you seem to be shouting 'where's my paternity leave'.

Doesn't apply to me. My youngest is well into their teens.

The Highwayman wrote: »

As an employer this sort of leave is very difficult to work around but I would suppose this would not be something you would care about as its all about you 'eh.

I know. Workers' rights, such a pain in the ass, aren't they? God be with the days when you could just buy a few slaves down the market and keep them in the shed and feed them once a day.

The Highwayman wrote: »

Oh and your free to leave Dark Ages Ireland any time you want

I'd rather stay and change it for the better, thanks.

The Highwayman

Cavehill Red wrote: »

From research indicating the importance of early parental bonding with children as crucial aids to their development.



Doesn't apply to me. My youngest is well into their teens.



I know. Workers' rights, such a pain in the ass, aren't they? God be with the days when you could just buy a few slaves down the market and keep them in the shed and feed them once a day.




I'd rather stay and change it for the better, thanks.

Research wow did they look into how the world ever got to this stage? How did you ever get your own family and life without this paternity leave, are you balanced and normal?

Yes pedantic does apply to you

LOL slaves your funny

This leftie liberal crap oh my child need me there to help him get over the shock of his birth and grow to be able to express himself ..... blah blah blah
We evolved with one parent doing the majority of the caring. The dad is fairly much interchangeable up to the first few years.

Dads want to be more involved these days I guess thats a good thing. If you want to stay home fine then mum goes off to work, simple.

And what happens when the child is 18 months old its put in full time daycare and where does that leave us?
What kind of maladjusted angry young people will we have then with their abandonment issues and who knows what.

Cavehill Red

The Highwayman wrote: »

Research wow did they look into how the world ever got to this stage? How did you ever get your own family and life without this paternity leave, are you balanced and normal?

Yeah, who needs scientific research or societal progress anyway? Clearly a fairer and more humane society is not of interest to you. Thankfully most people would rather see things improved upon.

The Highwayman wrote: »

Yes pedantic does apply to you

I'm not convinced you actually understand what that word means.

The Highwayman wrote: »

This leftie liberal crap oh my child need me there to help him get over the shock of his birth and grow to be able to express himself ..... blah blah blah

Oh dear.

The Highwayman wrote: »

We evolved with one parent doing the majority of the caring. The dad is fairly much interchangeable up to the first few years.

Got any scientific references to support that? (No, of course not; they don't exist.)
In contrast, there are screeds of research demonstrating the positive importance of a father's presence as regards a whole range of outcomes for children, from educational performance, to likelihood of developing addiction problems or being arrested later in life.

The Highwayman wrote: »

Dads want to be more involved these days I guess thats a good thing. If you want to stay home fine then mum goes off to work, simple.

You never answered my question: do you also oppose maternal leave?

The Highwayman wrote: »

And what happens when the child is 18 months old its put in full time daycare and where does that leave us?
What kind of maladjusted angry young people will we have then with their abandonment issues and who knows what.

As opposed to abandonment issues at an even earlier age? Your argument is self-defeating as well as idiotic.

Nevyn

What a lovely little spat to see on a Sunday morning,
The Highwayman you have had two warnings on this amend you posting style you will end up being banned from this forum.

Nevyn

The Highwayman wrote: »

Fine, there is support for children, tax breaks and children's allowance and such.

What support for children?

There are no tax breaks what so ever related to the cost of children.

Yes there is child benefit but what else do you think there is?

efb

Sleepy wrote: »

I actually can't bring myself to read the article. It'll just get my blood boiling that I'm treated as a second class parent.

Sleepy, this country doesn't see you as a parent at all!

efb

Thaedydal wrote: »

What support for children?

There are no tax breaks what so ever related to the cost of children.

Yes there is child benefit but what else do you think there is?

Thats incorrect :

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/home-carers.html

Nevyn

There is no universal tax break for all parents directly related to having a child.
That only applies to married couples and the working spouse as to be with in the PAYE system.

efb

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is no universal tax break for all parents directly related to having a child.
That only applies to married couples and the working spouse as to be with in the PAYE system.

But it is a tax credit that refers to children, you didn't have the above parameters on your original comment.

Moonbeam

There is no tax break for children nor extra tax credits.


Except if you are a single parent not cohabiting then you can get a lone parents tax credit.

Nevyn

I think I should have had my morning coffee sooner

efb

Moonbeam wrote: »

There is no tax break for children nor extra tax credits.


Except if you are a single parent not cohabiting then you can get a lone parents tax credit.

Moonbeam dis you miss my link to the stay at home parent tax credit???

iguana

The Highwayman wrote: »

to play daddy.

Have you ever looked after a baby/toddler for more than a couple of hours? You don't "play" daddy, it's not a bonding "holiday." Looking after a small child is hard, hard work. Babies need their every single need attended to, they can't even break wind unassisted. They can't blow their noses if they have a cold, in their early weeks they don't even understand that the limbs they (sort of) see belong to their own body.

Babies need to learn everything and they don't learn that without near constant correct stimulation. And this has to provided for round the clock as most of them don't sleep through the night. It's exhausting work and it can be terrifying as doing it badly can have a very negative impact.

It's why people pay others to look after their children if they can't. And why childcare is expensive. It's because it's hard and important work.

DublinWriter

I think there are a few things that need to be clarified about the Swedish situation that aren't mentioned in the original article.

Total paid parental leave in Sweden is 16 months shared between the mother and father. They require that a minimum of 2 months be taken by the parent who isn't taking the majority of the leave, this typically will be father.

A father can take a further two months unpaid leave, giving a maximum possible of 18 months paternity leave.

What the author doesn't mention is the fact his wife doesn't appear to be taking any leave at all and under Swedish law she should in fact be taking a minimum of 2 months.

While I welcome anything that encourages paternal leave, many of us, including myself, are self-employed and aren't even entitled to social-welfare, never mind parental leave. Can that be called a fair and balanced situation in this society when you consider that some people can effectively take 16 years parental leave?

The author, Nathan Hegedus, is a freelance writer and political blogger. One would assume that the office he boasts about not visiting 'since last December' is a metaphorical one?

mariaalice

In the past few years there have been 3 people in work on maternity leave at various times all of them have taken 28 weeks off which included holidays..that is about six months....we have paid maternity leave where i work...i think that is fairly good its a lot better that some countries....i would be supportive of some of this paid leave being taken by fathers...but deep down i don't think many mothers are going to go back to work at say month five and let the father take the rest of the paternity leave maybe i am wrong!