Do you support the government or are you waiting to revolt?

theg81der

blackiebest wrote: »

" The revolt will start mid to late Oct, When you see the same, full page, photo on the cover of every daily newspaper then that will be the begining.

It is currently under planning, totally peaceful, totally legal, hilarious and effective. The plan when executed, will warm the heart of every disgruntled person in the country and will embarass the Government no end. This will be the start.

I will need some help closer to the date so pm me if you are responsible, trustworthy, male, over 30. Do not include your name in any PM, only username. The photo on the front page of every paper and indeed international press will not identify anyone unless, like me, you wish to be identified.

I will reply to any PM's deemed eligable during the first week in Oct.

Ladies, I wish men only get in contact only as part of the plan. For stage two I will require females. Stage two will be in December.

Blackie."

What?

Liam Byrne

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The people who over spent ridiculous amounts of money play a huge factor in this blame game, anyone who disagrees is probably in major negative equity

I've seen this bull written in other threads and I'll reply here as I've replied elsewhere.

Not in negative equity and I still lay the majority of the blame on FF's mismanagement.

So basically, your statement is wrong.

Ulysses Gaze

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah Yeah I know! But the guy wrote that only FF and noone else is to blame for the mess of the country. Are you agreeing that no one outside of FF is to blame at all? Weird

FF never stopped to consider the need for a Safety Net, i.e. another portion of the economy that could pick the slack should or rather WHEN the bubble burst.

A failure to invest in indigenous industry, a failure to build world class infrastructure in Comms (we are not even mid-table OECD ranked in terms of broadband) - SMART Economy my backside, failure to promote tax-breaks for venture capital.

You have to blame FF for that.

RMD

Deleted User wrote: »

So who would you blame?

Its is FF faults, no one elses.

But dont worry, blowing Billions on a bankrupt bank that dosent even cater for joe public isnt FF fault,

Extending the summer holidays for all TD`s during a economic crisis isnt FF`s fault.


nope poor old FF, nothing to blame, move along we have turned a corner.

If you think this entire mess was caused by pumping billions into banks it shows how ignorant of this economic crisis you are. I never said FF had nothing to be blamed for, I said they aren't the sole cause of this current situation. They've a lot to account for, but many other people ****ed up along the way and FF are the only group being held accountable for it.

Tell me so, if you're so knowledgeable about politics, what other policies by different parties would have lead to a better handing of the economic and banking crisis that we're currently in.

What benefit would not bailing the biggest banks in the country have done us? Suppose no banks is better than bailed out banks eh? No mortgages is better than the possible chance of mortgage ye.

I'm in no way a FF fanboy, nor have I ever voted for them. I just hate people who talk shíte about politics and the economic crisis as if they actually had a clue what was going on and putting the sole blame on FF, no offense intended. I hold idiots like Sean Fitzpatrick and Bertie Ahern accountable mostly for this situation. Although Ahern was FF and the leader of it, he was a poor representative of the the entire party. The only politician in this country right now with a set of balls to his name is Brian Lenihan and sadly, he's FF, but he's also pretty sick.

Atlantic Dawn

RMD wrote: »

What benefit would not bailing the biggest banks in the country have done us? Suppose no banks is better than bailed out banks eh? No mortgages is better than the possible chance of mortgage ye.

AIB and BOI are not the basket cases that Anglo and Irish Nationwide are. If Anglo and Irish Nationwide were left fall it would not impact on many ordinary people at all, Anlgo Irish has just one branch in Dublin, it's not a bank for the ordinary person, it's purely a developers bank.

The country has been put on the table like a game of poker and we are finished, it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place again. I can't wait for the budget when he again cuts the needy, he won't ofcourse go cutting the old age pension as these people are the only ones left to vote for them.

The Waltzing Consumer

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has been put on the table like a game of poker and we are finished, it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place again. I can't wait for the budget when he again cuts the needy, he won't ofcourse go cutting the old age pension as these people are the only ones left to vote for them.

Bit mellow dramatic no? I am unemployed and have a great quality of living whilst I look for a job. We are the envy of Europe when it comes to benefits and social assistance. I am not sitting here saying "oh boo, I only get around 200 euro a week for doing nothing, its not fair, boo" I can even afford to go on holiday next week.

This "it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place" is just nonsense and does your arguing no help at all. Where are you living?

Ulysses Gaze

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bit mellow dramatic no? I am unemployed and have a great quality of living whilst I look for a job. We are the envy of Europe when it comes to benefits and social assistance. I am not sitting here saying "oh boo, I only get around 200 euro a week for doing nothing, its not fair, boo" I can even afford to go on holiday next week.

This "it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place" is just nonsense and does your arguing no help at all. Where are you living?

Being the 'envy' of Europe in terms of social benefits is not a good thing when your Government is borrowing c.€500 million a week to keep the lights on and over 450,000 are on the dole. It just inflates the National Debt and makes recovery even harder.

As for the '20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity'. I'd say that's too long. 10 years would be more realistic.

holystungun9

Can we hire that german Muller guy who is giving Aer Lingus a right kick up the hole and says that it will be braking even or maybe turn a small profit by the end of the year. And he has cut through so much crap and trade union extremists (the real Alqueda -bad spelling I know) to get things moving. "F off with yer strikes lads or else nobody is going to have a job" Not a direct quote but an indication of the logic required to push things forward

Einhard

FF have to shoulder a major part of the responsibility for the economic mess we're in, but not because of incompotence per se, and definitely not because of corruption, but because of a spinelessness in power, and a determination by Bertie Ahern that the first priority of any administration led by him was not to govern wisely, but to ensure re-election. Therefore, FF's agenda between 2002-07 was not to govern, but to avoid pissing the electorate off, shelve needed reforms, pay off both the private and public sectors with unsustainable wage agreements, and enter the 08 election inas stong a position of possible. For this Bertie Ahern in particular deserves unreserved codemnation. He was a coward, the very antitheis of a leader, a man who put personal and party interests before those of the nation. However, it also means that FF actions were determined in large part, not by those in the Galway tent or any of that other nonsense, but by the demands of the electorate. They gave the people what the people demanded. That's no way to run a country, and FF deserve all the oppropium they get, but it also means that the electorate in general, and not just FF voters, have to accept some responsibilty. If we don't then nothing will change, these crashes will remain cyclical, and in 40 years time we'll be having this exact same debate on boards 2.0.

Fighting Irish

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I've seen this bull written in other threads and I'll reply here as I've replied elsewhere.

Not in negative equity and I still lay the majority of the blame on FF's mismanagement.

So basically, your statement is wrong.

People need to be able to think for themselves, i know FF pushed the housing market but in the end, it was us who made the final decision

Biggins

Bank bailout named 'most expensive'

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan has been accused of presiding over the most expensive bank bailout in the world as nationalised Anglo Irish Bank reported 8.2 billion euro.

The massive black hole for the first half of the year was twice as bad as experts predicted, prompting calls for the Government to pull the plug on the 23 billion euro survival plan.

Mr Lenihan said the final bill for saving Anglo would be known within weeks.

But Michael Noonan, Fine Gael finance spokesman, said six billion euro of taxpayers' money could be saved if an orderly wind-down was started now.

"Minister Lenihan must now give a definitive figure for the cost of saving Anglo Irish. Taxpayers have a right to know," he said.

Mr Lenihan said: "I can understand the anger and frustration which citizens have when they witness the scale of the losses in this institution but it must be understood that management and the board are working very hard as are the Government and EU authorities to bring certainty and finality to this problem."

Joan Burton, Labour Party finance spokeswoman, said: "The taxpayers were reassured at the time that this would be the cheapest bank bailout in the world. Instead it has turned out to be probably the most expensive," she said.

Anglo chairman Alan Dukes said the preferred plan inside the bank was to split it with 80% wound up and a new viable bank created from the remaining good quality loan assets.

The state-run bank, which has been funded by 23 billion euro of taxpayers' money, said it expects further losses as more troubled assets are shifted off the bank's books.

Anglo already holds the unenviable record for posting the largest losses in Irish corporate history last year, one of the biggest losses in world banking and now one of the worst half-year performances of any Irish company.

Press Association: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100831/tuk-bank-bailout-named-most-expensive-e1cd776.html

...And they will probably be needing more!

---

The Times Write-up:

Anglo Irish hits record loss of €8.58bn

Anglo Irish Bank slumped to a record first-half loss of €8.58 billion (£7.06 billion) after soaring bad debt provisions and its exposure to Ireland’s struggling economy.

The bank, which has received €22.88 billion in state aid, said that the losses were fuelled by €4.8 billion in loan impairment charges taken during the six months to the end of June.

The bank also took a hit of €3.5 billion against securities transferred into Ireland’s insurance scheme for toxic assets, known as that National Asset Management Agency (NAMA).

Anglo Irish, which has overhauled its board since the bailout, said that it had transferred €10.1 billion into NAMA in May and June. As at the end of June, it planned to transfer a further €25.9 billion into the scheme with associated impairment provisions of €9.7 billion, it said.

This means that further losses are likely as Anglo Irish battles to repair its balance sheet and return to financial strength.

“The new management of Anglo Irish Bank is working to significantly restructure the bank’s balance sheet, risk profile and culture in order to restore viability,” the bank said.

Anglo Irish thanked Brian Lenihan, the Finance Minister, for agreeing in June to inject €8.58 billion into the bank, which posted annual losses for last year of €12.7 billion, the largest in Irish corporate history.

Mike Aynsley, the chief executive, said that the final bill for bailing out the bank was likely to reach €25 billion. He said that he expected the European Commission, which has been investigating the state aid it has received, to deliver its findings in September.

He said that he wanted Anglo Irish to be split into a good and bad bank, similar to Northern Rock.

In the case of Northern Rock, the bad bank remains in the hands of the state and will be wound down, while the good bank continues to be run for profit and eventually returned in a sale to the private sector.

Anglo Irish said that, before the impairment charges, operating profits for the six months reached €151 million. It said that operating costs had been reduced by 12 per cent to €133 million, with restructuring activities — including the NAMA scheme — costing €14 million.

Anglo Irish was fully nationalised in January 2009 to prevent its collapse. At the time it was the country’s third biggest lender and the state had already agreed to underwrite €100 billion in outstanding loans and deposits.

The intervention came after the resignations of Sean FitzPatrick, the chairman, and David Drumm, chief executive in December 2008.

Anglo Irish discovered that Mr FitzPatrick had concealed €87 million in personal loans from the bank. Mr FitzPatrick, who transferred the loans to another bank before the end of each financial year, did not breach banking or legal regulations.

However, he said at the time of his resignation: “It is clear to me, on reflection, that it was inappropriate and unacceptable from a transparency point of view.”

Times: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6383/wwwthetimescoukttobusin.jpg


...And who is going to continue to pay for these losses?

YOU!!!

blackiebest

theg81der wrote: »

What?

What part of my post is unclear? The revolt is planned for late Oct, looking for a few good honourable men as outlined

Dravokivich

Fighting Irish wrote: »

and the minimum wage in ireland is one of the highest in the world

Right... you do know how hard it is for 1 working person to support a family on that?

You say highest minimum wage... but not comparing the out goings on bills... rent/mortgage... food... clothes... education (for kids)...

checkyabadself

Ireland is a conservative republican country. I wouldn't bother revolting so that one right wing party will replace another.

From talking to a lot of people, I feel Ireland would benefit from a left/right, democrat republican model of government similar to he US.

Id be centre left and the majority of people I know were confused as to why our government, when faced with massive economic problems, seemed more concerned and passionate about a dog breeding bill and blasphemy laws.
Irelands government is old school and the electorate don't know what the alternative is, as there isn't one.

_Kaiser_

King Felix wrote: »

Are you revolting, OP?

Deleted User wrote: »

When someone takes the lead I will happily join.

Warning.. FAR too serious rant for AH ahead!!


No offense OP, but it's EXACTLY that attitude that has this country in the mess it's in - this "can't someone ELSE do it?" mentality. That's why the government continues to make fools of us, that's why crime and antisocial behaviour is a far bigger problem than it was say 20/30 years ago, that's why people are up to their neck in debt.

Somewhere in the last 15 years we (as a nation) somehow forgot about the concept that you're personally responsible for the decisions you make in life, AND the consequences thereof.

For example, take all these people who are stuck in negative equity in shoebox-sized apartments/houses that were never actually worth (as in value for money) what they paid, and who are now calling for a bailout.
While I have EVERY sympathy for their situation, at the same time no one FORCED them to buy a house, no one FORCED them to take out a ridiculous mortgage that they couldn't afford (and maybe only got by altering the figures a bit), and therefore not ONE of them should be bailed out now - no more than the banks or developers should have (but then we live in a corrupt banana republic of people who are too greedy and selfish and too concerned about "getting one over" on each other to think of the bigger picture!).

Why should the rest of us pay for the CHOICES these people made? Contrary to what people may have believed in the last 10-15 years, we are NOT the "chosen people" and property was NEVER going to continue to rise indefinitely - it was a gamble, and like all gambling you have to take losses now and then.

I personally was made redundant late last year, but I still have to pay my bills and my debts every month. Damn sure it's not easy and I've had to go cap-in-hand to renegotiate the terms on most of them, but that's LIFE as an adult. No one is going to "forgive" my car loan for example and nor should they as it was MY choice.

BUT all that said, these same banks that are now operating with our money should be FORCED to negotiate with people in trouble, and as long as people are making a genuine effort, that should be enough (backed up by whatever legislation needed).

Somewhere along the way we forgot about the concept of personal and civic responsibility - and until we "grow up" as a country, things will NEVER really change for the better.

speedboatchase

Look, all the things that NEED to be done (more public sector cuts, social welfare cuts, reducing minimum wage) are really unpopular but still need to be done - I'd rather the current government got that out of the way before another (inevitably) comes in. If the next government doesn't want to take the above necessary steps - and might'nt as they want votes - we could prolong this quagmire. There's no real way to 'revolt' either because the next government is always going to be a coalition of some sort

speedboatchase

checkyabadself wrote: »

Ireland is a conservative republican country. I wouldn't bother revolting so that one right wing party will replace another.

From talking to a lot of people, I feel Ireland would benefit from a left/right, democrat republican model of government similar to he US.

Id be centre left and the majority of people I know were confused as to why our government, when faced with massive economic problems, seemed more concerned and passionate about a dog breeding bill and blasphemy laws.
Irelands government is old school and the electorate don't know what the alternative is, as there isn't one.

I'd disagree myself - its such a wasteful welfare state, I can't really see it as conservative myself, although I take your point about that ridiculous blasphemy law. There's no alternative imo because of proportional representation - why would a political party want to offer alternatives when they just want to ensure they don't alienate other parties for a possible coalition?

stbrennan

I'll rebel...


I'm just waiting for a disfigured Guy Fawkes to show up and shave my head




GOD! Natalie Portman is hot

theg81der

blackiebest wrote: »

What part of my post is unclear? The revolt is planned for late Oct, looking for a few good honourable men as outlined

What to all off it! Your "planning" a revolt and advertising it like an event or party and your only looking a for "honourable men". Sorry what year is this? I`m confused

blackiebest

theg81der wrote: »

What to all off it! Your "planning" a revolt and advertising it like an event or party and your only looking a for "honourable men". Sorry what year is this? I`m confused

Read it again. There is a revolt comming. If you are over 30 years of old, male and wish to be a part of it then pm me. I will be replying to those that are deemed responsible in early Oct with a little more info. It is not a party but might be considered a small event but with a massive impact. It will be the start of the end for the system we are subjected to.

It is 2010.

I see you are confused:):)

I will not be replying in this thread again, maybe see you in the politics forum.

reallyrose

King Felix wrote: »

Are you revolting, OP?

[predictable] Most denizens of AH are already revolting.. [/predictable]

fontanalis

Revolt, give me a f***ing break. What are you going to do, run wild like the Greeks, destroy property and behave like a bunch of spoilt teenagers and kick the government out? Then who will the revolters install to run the country? As bad as they are I'd trust the current shower more that some brain dead mob.