Michaela Davis.. the justice system - a 15 year old girl's POV

Jesus Wept

What are we arguing about here? Clearly it's a rant.

Seeing as you have drawn me on it, it is complete tripe.

stovelid

Top 5 punishment fantasies:

Hot nails in the soles of the feet
Boiling in oil
"Rotting" in jail with "no playstations, sunbeds and plasma TVs"
Lynching
Being fed to wild animals

old_aussie

With the Irish (JOKE) of a judicial system a smart lawyer will have the murderer out in weeks with the "he had a hard upbringing and therefore cannot be held responsible for his actions"

His dad was a drunk and so therefore he cannot be held responsible for the murder....what a feckin joke Ireland's judicial system is.

stovelid

old_aussie wrote: »

With the Irish (JOKE) of a dudicial system a smart lawyer will have the murderer out in weeks with the "he had a hard upbringing and therefore cannot be held responsible for his actions"

You could make some money out of a gift to uncannily predict the outcome of future criminal trials like that.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

Ah come off that... it's clearly a kid caught up in a rant...

It's 1 thing to question how she's saying what she's saying...

...it's another coming out and making it seem like worthless tripe.

It kind of is
I would hope a lot of kids of 15 could do better than yelling about animals and satan

General Zod

Clearly we need to enact the Battle Royale Act.

OP, maybe when you mature a bit I'll respect your views on torturing and executing criminals a bit more.

Oh wait, no. :pac:

Irishcrx

Irishcrx wrote: »

But what I am saying is if there is any truth to this then this girls parents are as much to blame for her murder. A 12 year old should not be free to be out past 8 at night nevermind 12 and they are a disgrace for allowing her to be out taking part in that sort of behaviour at that age!

No, wrong. Her parents may have considered her to be an exceptionally mature and intelligent person who could easily pass for a late teenager. Or, who is to say that she didn't simply sneak out? You cannot possibly blame them for the fact that she happened to be out at midnight and was killed. Their responsibility for her death is negligible compared to that of the person who actually killed her.

I laugh at the idea that 12 year olds shouldn't be allowed out after 8. Maybe if you want your child to live in a bubble their whole life, but that's arguably much worse parenting than giving them a bit of freedom.

Erica<3

The gut was already charged with raping her, beating her and strangling her.

Oh and OP he won't be out in 10 or 30 years, he'll be like every other sick **** this judicial system has released, and be out on bail in 5 or 7 years.

Dudess

old_aussie wrote: »

With the Irish (JOKE) of a judicial system a smart lawyer will have the murderer out in weeks with the "he had a hard upbringing and therefore cannot be held responsible for his actions"

His dad was a drunk and so therefore he cannot be held responsible for the murder....what a feckin joke Ireland's judicial system is.

Lol. To be fair to the OP, at least she's 15 rather than self-proclaimed "old".

Erica<3

Erica<3 wrote: »

Oh and OP he won't be out in 10 or 30 years, he'll be like every other sick **** this judicial system has released, and be out on bail in 5 or 7 years.

He is charged with rape and murder of a child, probably the most serious crimes you can commit in Ireland. I don't think you really believe he'll be behind bars for less than a decade.

Banned Account

Deleted User wrote: »

No, wrong. Her parents may have considered her to be an exceptionally mature and intelligent person who could easily pass for a late teenager. Or, who is to say that she didn't simply sneak out? You cannot possibly blame them for the fact that she happened to be out at midnight and was killed. Their responsibility for her death is negligible compared to that of the person who actually killed her.

I laugh at the idea that 12 year olds shouldn't be allowed out after 8. Maybe if you want your child to live in a bubble their whole life, but that's arguably much worse parenting than giving them a bit of freedom.

That's as may be but the fact is that there are people out there who will rape beat and murder 12 year old girls. If you allow them out after midnight, the chances of this happening are greatly increased. If you kepp them home at night you have a better chance of protecting them.

Some 5 year olds may be well able to swim but you wouldn't leave them unattended in a pool. Her parent's should not have let her out, but then again, they will have to live with the consequences of their actions - that is one hell of a punishment.

digme

Deleted User wrote: »

He is charged with rape and murder of a child, probably the most serious crimes you can commit in Ireland. I don't think you really believe he'll be behind bars for less than a decade.

6 years max

Erica<3

Deleted User wrote: »

No, wrong. Her parents may have considered her to be an exceptionally mature and intelligent person who could easily pass for a late teenager. Or, who is to say that she didn't simply sneak out? You cannot possibly blame them for the fact that she happened to be out at midnight and was killed. Their responsibility for her death is negligible compared to that of the person who actually killed her.

I laugh at the idea that 12 year olds shouldn't be allowed out after 8. Maybe if you want your child to live in a bubble their whole life, but that's arguably much worse parenting than giving them a bit of freedom.

Her parents knew she was leaving the house at midnight for a few minutes. They started to panic when she was not back 5 minutes later.

And yes, 12 year olds should be home by 8, they are still children. When i was a kid parents knew where we were all the time, in who's house etc and no it's not *arguably worse parenting than giving them a bit of freedom*, freedom at that age leads to things like this.

Jesus Wept

Deleted User wrote: »

No, wrong. Her parents may have considered her to be an exceptionally mature and intelligent person who could easily pass for a late teenager.

She was 12.

Deleted User wrote: »

Or, who is to say that she didn't simply sneak out?

Read any article thus far regarding the events.

Deleted User wrote: »

I laugh at the idea that 12 year olds shouldn't be allowed out after 8. Maybe if you want your child to live in a bubble their whole life, but that's arguably much worse parenting than giving them a bit of freedom.

It was after midnight. What has 8pm got to do with it?

Erica<3

Deleted User wrote: »

He is charged with rape and murder of a child, probably the most serious crimes you can commit in Ireland. I don't think you really believe he'll be behind bars for less than a decade.

If you honestly believe that, you have no idea on what sentences rapists are given these days, and what time they are actually doing. As someone who has a source in the prison service, it is sickening how easily they are given shorter sentences, or let out on bail.

digme

after 12 o'clock all rapists come out and rape 12 year old girls. that's right folks

jam_mac_jam

I wish people would stop blaming the victim or the parents, yes she shouldnt have been out at 12, I am glad everyone is perfect and never made a mistake. They will have to live with that forever. I would blame the murderer not the parents, it could have happened at 8 o clock at night.

Jeboa Safari

Stephanie Rancid Leader wrote: »

Oh my God. Y'all best be trollin'. :rolleyes:

You have stated that you think murderers should be executed.

MrStuffins said democracy is wasted on people such as yourself.

You then went on to ask MrStuffins who gave him the right to decide who does and doesn't deserve democracy.

So you're questioning that, but you think murderers should be executed. Who gave you the right to decide if they should be murdered? Who gave anyone that right?

Answer: No-one did. You do not and should not have that right, and neither does/should anyone else.

mmmedit:

Firstly, it is not his right, it is his responsibility.
Secondly, exclusion from society and the death penalty are two very different kettles of fish. What if he makes a mistake? How are you going to compensate someone who is wrongly convicted and executed? I'm sure you'd feel VERY differently if you were the one in cuffs.

I've a question for you: Why do you think one man's life should be placed in another's?

First of all I was taking the piss questioning that, because he questions me about who gives me the right to say who should live or die, when I'm only expressing my opinion. Something I thought you're allowed to do in a democracy, yet that makes democracy wasted on me.

Yes I think murderers should be executed if a judge decides they should. I'm saying that I think it should be an option for the judge to sentence a murderer to death. And I know no-one presently has the right.

MrStuffins wrote:

And you think because the Government say so, he has the right to say who lives and dies?

You really think that a group of normal people, who we ask to run our country, should be able to tell YOU that YOU SHOULD DIE if they see it fit that you should die?

Great

Now i gotta go, i have a busy day tomorrow stealing money from those convicted of fraud, punching those convicted of assault and taking the eyes of those who take eyes.

Justice eh?

Where have I said that they should just decide whether I should live or die if they see fit. If you read any of my posts you would see I'm saying murders who break the law, people who have shown they're not fit to live in society.

Your last sentence is more of the same nonsense. Are you capable of seeing things in anything other than black and white?

Irishcrx

Deleted User wrote: »

No, wrong. Her parents may have considered her to be an exceptionally mature and intelligent person who could easily pass for a late teenager. Or, who is to say that she didn't simply sneak out? You cannot possibly blame them for the fact that she happened to be out at midnight and was killed. Their responsibility for her death is negligible compared to that of the person who actually killed her.

I laugh at the idea that 12 year olds shouldn't be allowed out after 8. Maybe if you want your child to live in a bubble their whole life, but that's arguably much worse parenting than giving them a bit of freedom.

Well according to reports she informed them that she was leaving the house so she did not sneak out. Secondly if the alligations are true a mature 12 year old does not drink, smoke and take drugs.

When and if I have kids I don't expect them to live in a bubble there whole life of course I don't. But I will take responsibilty for them and treat them according the their age. this girl is 12 you seem to think she was maybe 15 or 16 which is when I was starting to get out a bit later at night.

I think your attitude that parents should let young children roam is negligable. All 10-12 year olds think they are more mature than they are.

Banned Account

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Are you capable of seeing things in anything other than black and white?

Death sentences are pretty balck and white if you ask me. Therefore before you consider them, you should make damn sure that you're 100% right - there is no lattitude for making a mistake here. Given the fact that we all make mistakes, it is the wrong road to go down.

Dodging the issues by saying "it's not me deciding, it's a judge" doesn't help either - years reading and interpreting case law does not make you qualified to decide who lives or dies.

Jeboa Safari

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Death sentences are pretty balck and white if you ask me. Therefore before you consider them, you should make damn sure that you're 100% right - there is no lattitude for making a mistake here. Given the fact that we all make mistakes, it is the wrong road to go down.

Dodging the issues by saying "it's not me deciding, it's a judge" doesn't help either - years reading and interpreting case law does not make you qualified to decide who lives or dies.

I'm not dodging the issues, if I say that I would decide, all as I get back is a stupid response like "who gives YOU the right to decide :rolleyes:"

With an appeals process and modern technology, I think you could make certain who is innocent and who is guilty.

Banned Account

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

I'm not dodging the issues, if I say that I would decide, all as I get back is a stupid response like "who gives YOU the right to decide :rolleyes:"

You've not addressed the point though - why is a judge better positioned to make this call? are you saying that the right to decide on life should hinge on an academic qualification?

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

With an appeals process and modern technology, I think you could make certain who is innocent and who is guilty.

really?

Terry

This girls parents did not murder her.
Murder and rape can occur at any time of the day. A local rapist attacked two women at about 8am.

But, sure, we can always lynch the parents anyway. That'll solve everything, right?

Banned Account

Terry wrote: »

This girls parents did not murder her.
Murder and rape can occur at any time of the day. A local rapist attacked two women at about 8am.

But, sure, we can always lynch the parents anyway. That'll solve everything, right?

Not quite my point really. The perpetrator is the only guilty party. The parents could have avoided this by not allowing the poor girl out after midnight. You can never rmove completely the risks to anone, but I believe that your job as a parent should be to mitigate the risks as far as possible.

The balance between allowing a child to live their life and keeping them safe is a personal choice. In my opinion, the parents here got the balance wrong - what they now have to endure for this is more punishment than anyone can ever hand them down. God be with them.

Sammia

Erica<3 wrote: »

If you honestly believe that, you have no idea on what sentences rapists are given these days, and what time they are actually doing. As someone who has a source in the prison service, it is sickening how easily they are given shorter sentences, or let out on bail.

Em, he murdered her.

The Waltzing Consumer

Terry wrote: »

This girls parents did not murder her.
Murder and rape can occur at any time of the day. A local rapist attacked two women at about 8am.

But, sure, we can always lynch the parents anyway. That'll solve everything, right?

To be fair Terry, we had another teenage who died in West Dublin this year, and the majority of blame was placed on the social services, not the murderer(s). If a child is in the care of the state (which the state says is NO replacement for parents) and something happens to the child, people go crazy at the state. But when something horrific happens to a child, like in this case, people are slated for daring to criticise the parents.

Anyone in west dublin knows that a huge amount of children go around, late at night, dressed like cheap whores, hanging around with scumbags and eventually, bad things will happen. They have child brains, dressed in adult exteriors. Parents have to parent, and I think the people who criticise these parents know that the family structure in many parts of Dublin is well and truly f**ked up and in the end, these kids get hurt.

Kiwi_knock

The reason the parents are getting an unproportionate amount of the blame is because people have no clues about the murder yet and why it occured. The only fact that is concrete is that Michaela left her house at 12. People are focusing in on this fact and examining the reason why a 12 year old girl would be out this late. The parents are being blamed for her being out this late because there is no facts for why she went out at this time. As soon as more facts come out about this murder then the focus will slowly shift off her parents and more onto the accused.

Jeboa Safari

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

You've not addressed the point though - why is a judge better positioned to make this call? are you saying that the right to decide on life should hinge on an academic qualification?



really?

Because he's been appointed the the role of judge, he's seen as better positioned to decide who to exclude from society at present. I think it's an appropriate punishment, if the murderer doesn't decide to murder someone in the first place, they wouldn't be putting the life in the hands of someone else. If they know that they face possible execution for murdering someone, then they couldn't really have complaints if they were sentenced to death, I think.

prinz

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

The only fact that is concrete is that Michaela left her house at 12. People are focusing in on this fact and examining the reason why a 12 year old girl would be out this late. The parents are being blamed for her being out this late because there is no facts for why she went out at this time. As soon as more facts come out about this murder then the focus will slowly shift off her parents and more onto the accused.

Does it really matter why she left her house after midnight? The 'fact' as has been reported is that she left with the consent of her parents at that time. IMO there is no reasoning whatsoever why parents would allow a 12 year go 'out for a while' on their own at that time tbh. Major parenting fail tbh.They didn't abuse or kill her but they didn't do a whole lot to prevent it either it seems.

Banned Account

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Because he's been appointed the the role of judge, he's seen as better positioned to decide who to exclude from society at present. I think it's an appropriate punishment, if the murderer doesn't decide to murder someone in the first place, they wouldn't be putting the life in the hands of someone else. If they know that they face possible execution for murdering someone, then they couldn't really have complaints if they were sentenced to death, I think.

"Exclude from society" - that's a nice fluffy phrase for killing someone isn't it?

A judge's role is to interpret the law and apply it - that is all. When it comes to making a moral choice as to who should live or die, they are no more qualified than the man on the Clapham omnibus. The fact is that mistakes are made in the area of criminal convictions, if there is a chance that this can happen then a wholly irriversible couse of action is not really desireable.

Dyr

Terry wrote: »

A local rapist attacked two women at about 8am.

makes it sounds like everyone knows who he is. "Young kevin murphy is our local rapist"

Banned Account

Bambi wrote: »

makes it sounds like everyone knows who he is. "Young kevin murphy is our local rapist"

Really? Anything to Larry from up Wicklow way?

:pac:

Terry

prinz wrote: »

Does it really matter why she left her house after midnight? The 'fact' as has been reported is that she left with the consent of her parents at that time. IMO there is no reasoning whatsoever why parents would allow a 12 year go 'out for a while' on their own at that time tbh. Major parenting fail tbh.They didn't abuse or kill her but they didn't do a whole lot to prevent it either it seems.

Yeah, because they knew she was going to be raped and murdered.

The fact of the matter is that this type of thing can, and most certainly does, occur at any time of the day.

The murderer is the only person to blame for the murder of this child. Not the parent, not the Gardaí, no society or anything else. The murderer murdered this girl. The clue is in the word "Murderer".

Kiwi_knock

prinz wrote: »

Does it really matter why she left her house after midnight? The 'fact' as has been reported is that she left with the consent of her parents at that time. IMO there is no reasoning whatsoever why parents would allow a 12 year go 'out for a while' on their own at that time tbh. Major parenting fail tbh.They didn't abuse or kill her but they didn't do a whole lot to prevent it either it seems.

I am just wondering was the parents consent given to her when she said she was just popping out for a few minutes. Or did she give an actual reason for going out at that time, it could have been something innocent like making sure a friend got home ok. It was a parenting mistake, there is no denying that, but I am just interested wat there a specific reason they trusted her to go out at that time i.e did she give a reason that they felt was innocent and would not take too long.

Jeboa Safari

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

"Exclude from society" - that's a nice fluffy phrase for killing someone isn't it?

A judge's role is to interpret the law and apply it - that is all. When it comes to making a moral choice as to who should live or die, they are no more qualified than the man on the Clapham omnibus. The fact is that mistakes are made in the area of criminal convictions, if there is a chance that this can happen then a wholly irriversible couse of action is not really desireable.

No, it means they can lock them up in jail, as such, exclude them from society.

There's also a chance someone could be sentenced to life in prison and die while in there. If there was an appeals process, I think the chance of 2 judges and a jury making a mistake are very small. Combined with modern technology like dna testing and with all the cctv and how you can track people whereabouts from their phone and whatnot, I think the chances of sentencing an innocent person to death in minuscule.

Dyr

Don't think anyone is saying the parent's murdered her. But it might come out in the trial that their parenting put her at risk.

Terry

Bambi wrote: »

makes it sounds like everyone knows who he is. "Young kevin murphy is our local rapist"

Well I was going to name him, but he lives quite close to me, and I get along with his family, and I'd like to keep it that way. It's not like I'm anonymous here.

prinz

Terry wrote: »

Yeah, because they knew she was going to be raped and murdered.The fact of the matter is that this type of thing can, and most certainly does, occur at any time of the day..

Yes it can, and if it did I would have a hell of a lot more sympathy for the parents. Of course that has nothing to do with allowing a 12 year old girl out on her to do whatever, with whomever after midnight.

You might as well say because cars get stolen all the time, I should shoulder no responsibility if I leave the doors open and the keys in the ignition.

Terry wrote: »

The murderer is the only person to blame for the murder of this child. Not the parent, not the Gardaí, no society or anything else. The murderer murdered this girl. The clue is in the word "Murderer".

The murderer murdered the child. Yes. No one is saying otherwise. However that does not absolve the parents from an obvious failing. It's not about sharing the blame and there's only so much to go around. The parents screwed up. The murderer murdered her. One does not take away from the other. It's not like I'm saying the murderer is 90% to blame and the parents 10%.... the murderer is 100% to blame, but the parents attitude and behaviour was shocking in it's own right and it's a fair comment to acknowledge that.

Sammia

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I am just wondering was the parents consent given to her when she said she was just popping out for a few minutes. Or did she give an actual reason for going out at that time, it could have been something innocent like making sure a friend got home ok. It was a parenting mistake, there is no denying that, but I am just interested wat there a specific reason they trusted her to go out at that time i.e did she give a reason that they felt was innocent and would not take too long.

Regardless of the tragedy that took place, or the reasons for her leaving the house, NO 12 YEAR OLD should be allowed leave the house alone at that time, without exception. No 12 year old should be allowed hang around with peers far older than them. It does not matter how smart or mature the twelve year old is, at the end of the day, she was still just a child and had the parents monitored her more closely, the events of that night would not have occurred in the way that they did. There is no denying this. As a parent, my hear goes out to them & the past cannot be undone, but I hope it serves as a lesson to other parents.

Banned Account

Sammia wrote: »

No 12 year old should be allowed hang around with piers far older than them.

I agree - he was always a sneaky plick - even before that whole Britain's got talent gig.

Booourns:mad:

Sammia

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

I agree - he was always a sneaky plick - even before that whole Britain's got talent gig.

Booourns:mad:

Oh come on, cut me some slack here! This did make me giggle, though... & there is no denying it. The guy's a creep.

*Peers* far older...

Banned Account

Sammia wrote: »

Oh come on, cut me some slack here! This did make me giggle, though... & there is no denying it. The guy's a creep.

*Peers* far older...

Sorry, couldn't resist!!

Awful bollocks he is though.:)

Dudess

Jesus, those of you gleefully lynching the devastated parents without the full story: I know it makes you feel so much better about yourselves, but could you maybe wait until you have the full facts, or at least some bit longer than four and a half days after the child was killed?

jam_mac_jam

Dudess wrote: »

Jesus, those of you gleefully lynching the devastated parents without the full story: I know it makes you feel so much better about yourselves, but could you maybe wait until you have the full facts, or at least some bit longer than four and a half days after the child was killed?

Exactly, you would think that everyone is perfect the way they are going on/

Banned Account

Dudess wrote: »

Jesus, those of you gleefully lynching the devastated parents without the full story: I know it makes you feel so much better about yourselves, but could you maybe wait until you have the full facts, or at least some bit longer than four and a half days after the child was killed?

I'm not lynching the parents at all - my heart goes out to them. I just think it's really careless to allow a 12yr old out after midnight.

Dudess

stovelid wrote: »

Top 5 punishment fantasies:

Hot nails in the soles of the feet
Boiling in oil
"Rotting" in jail with "no playstations, sunbeds and plasma TVs"
Lynching
Being fed to wild animals

I was mulling over which TOTP countdown music to use, I have settled on this.

Dudess

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

I'm not lynching the parents at all - my heart goes out to them. I just think it's really careless to allow a 12yr old out after midnight.

But if you knew for certain it was a case of:

Daughter: I'm heading out for a few minutes
Parents: Ok

then yeah, absolutely. But we have no idea what the situation was, even if the papers said "She stepped out for a few minutes". That's very threadbare - there could be a LOT more to it...

The Waltzing Consumer

Dudess wrote: »

Jesus, those of you gleefully lynching the devastated parents without the full story: I know it makes you feel so much better about yourselves, but could you maybe wait until you have the full facts, or at least some bit longer than four and a half days after the child was killed?

Bit childish. No one is gleeful about any of this. If you are this sensitive about things, you should not use the internet. The thread was not created to lynch the parents, but came about from people discussing various aspects of the case as reported by the news.

Banned Account

Dudess wrote: »

But if you knew for certain it was a case of:

Daughter: I'm heading out for a few minutes
Parents: Ok

then yeah, absolutely. But we have no idea what the situation was, even if the papers said "She stepped out for a few minutes". That's very threadbare - there could be a LOT more to it...

I can only go on what I've read to be honest and everyone is saying the same thing - she told her parents she was stepping out for a few minutes and never came back.