Michaela Davis.. the justice system - a 15 year old girl's POV

Herbal Deity

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I don't know much about politics or who we should blame for this, but I do know that it just isn't enough!

wat?

prinz

Dudess wrote: »

Jesus, those of you gleefully lynching the devastated parents without the full story: I know it makes you feel so much better about yourselves, but could you maybe wait until you have the full facts, or at least some bit longer than four and a half days after the child was killed?

Who is "gleefully lynching the parents"? It is a massive question mark which should not be ignored. It's not some taboo topic we must not discuss.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Exactly, you would think that everyone is perfect the way they are going on/

It's not about being 'perfect', for crying out loud. :rolleyes:

Dudess

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bit childish. No one is gleeful about any of this. If you are this sensitive about things, you should not use the internet. The thread was not created to lynch the parents, but came about from people discussing various aspects of the case as reported by the news.

"Gleeful" as in overly enthusiastic, unable to hold back. And it's not childish or over sensitive just because you disagree with it - what IS childish is lynching. Have some thought for the parents ffs.

prinz

Dudess wrote: »

"Gleeful" as in overly enthusiastic, unable to hold back. And it's not childish or over sensitive just because you disagree with it - what IS childish is lynching. Have some thought for the parents ffs.

Any example of this gleeful lynching of the parents?

Kiwi_knock

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

I can only go on what I've read to be honest and everyone is saying the same thing - she told her parents she was stepping out for a few minutes and never came back.

But how do we know that these are the exact words she used "stepping out for a few minutes", she could have followed this by naming some person that she intended to see. It would be unprofessional of the Guards to release a name of the person that Michaela stated she would have met until the Guards fully investigate that person. Lets say the Guards released a statement saying that Michaela told her parents that she was going to meet "Jane", the media especially the tabloids would put this girl under increased scrutiny and try and link her to the murder. There is no need to link someone to a murder until they fully investigate it and acknowledge there could be some blame and guilt attached. I do not believe that it was as simple as Michaela telling her parents she was going out for a few seconds, I think there is more to what she said and it will come out over time.

prinz

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

But how do we know that these are the exact words she used "stepping out for a few minutes", she could have followed this by naming some person that she intended to see....

..and? Naming someone she intended to see is irrelevant. She was 12. It was after midnight.

The Waltzing Consumer

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bit childish. No one is gleeful about any of this. If you are this sensitive about things, you should not use the internet. The thread was not created to lynch the parents, but came about from people discussing various aspects of the case as reported by the news.

No, this thread came about because a 15 year old who doesn't have a clue what she is talking about got, understandably, angry about a tragic incident involving a girl of a similar, albeit slightly younger, age.

Then AH does what it does best and goes ape**** over the issue and within a couple of hundred posts the death penalty crap emerges again.

News coverage will always be sensationalised on this stuff, they feed on tragedy. The OP is clearly just regurgitating a media inspired line that the prison/sentencing system in Ireland is way too lenient. She even admits she really doesn't know anything about it but still knows it's wrong. That says all it should.

Other people in this thread who are a little older and wiser than 15 should have more sense than to indulge the death penalty talk as it is, manifestly, nonsense.

Mister men

Deleted User wrote: »

No, this thread came about because a 15 year old who doesn't have a clue what she is talking about got, understandably, angry about a tragic incident involving a girl of a similar, albeit slightly younger, age.

Then AH does what it does best and goes ape**** over the issue and within a couple of hundred posts the death penalty crap emerges again.

News coverage will always be sensationalised on this stuff, they feed on tragedy. The OP is clearly just regurgitating a media inspired line that the prison/sentencing system in Ireland is way too lenient. She even admits she really doesn't know anything about it but still knows it's wrong. That says all it should.

Other people in this thread who are a little older and wiser than 15 should have more sense than to indulge the death penalty talk as it is, manifestly, nonsense.

I'm 36 and i don't think it's nonsense.

Nuggles

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I will not and never will change my views on it.

Course you won't. You're fifteen, all of your opinions are well set in stone by now. It's all black and white to you. You don't see the greyness in the middle.

You'll get past that don't worry.

Sure the justice system in Ireland has plenty of problems. Because it's complicated, justice. Figuring out "just" punishment for crimes, it's difficult.

Murdering murderers, does it really seem like a good idea to you. Would you do it personally? Slowly murdering someone, because they were a criminal? Because if you could do that, then you have problems. Actually, wanting someone else to do it, for "justice", still means you have problems. Can't imagine anyone who would want that done to another human being is entirely emotional stable.

But like I said, fifteen is a great age.

Kiwi_knock

prinz wrote: »

..and? Naming someone she intended to see is irrelevant. She was 12. It was after midnight.

I am not saying the parents were in the right by letting her out but maybe they did not see anything threatening in letting her out at that time maybe because she gave a reason that made them believe it was an innocent excursion that would take a few minutes. The parents made a mistake and will have to live with the consequences of that evening for the rest of their lives.

mr kr0nik

Dudess wrote: »

Jesus, those of you gleefully lynching the devastated parents without the full story: I know it makes you feel so much better about yourselves, but could you maybe wait until you have the full facts, or at least some bit longer than four and a half days after the child was killed?

Sorry but the facts are that she left the home at midnight with the parents permission.

I have two kids. Even if it was only to next door my gut instinct would be to say "you can see them tomorrow".

I find that most kids (mine anyway) will accept the occasional "No" without trying to go behind my back or causing a row.

Mister men

Mister men wrote: »

I'm 36 and i don't think it's nonsense.

It is nonsense. It will not be introduced here and it cannot be introduced here. It's a barbaric and idiotic method of punishment and deserves no place in a rational discussion.

I also said people older than 15 should know better. I didn't assume they all did know better.

starbelgrade

mr kr0nik wrote: »

Sorry but the facts are that she left the home at midnight with the parents permission.

I have two kids. Even if it was only to next door my gut instinct would be to say "you can see them tomorrow".

I find that most kids (mine anyway) will accept the occasional "No" without trying to go behind my back or causing a row.

Kudos to you & your perfect life.

amen

I'm 36 and i don't think it's nonsense.

well if you are 36 you were old enough to vote on the constitutional ammendmnent to remove it from the statue books.

Have you done any research on the death penalty? Most research estimates at least 30% of people on death row in the USA are wrongly convicted.

What about the Guilford four/Bermingham six? If they were executed everyone would still think they are guilty?

If we have the death penalty for murder(or manslaughter as that is what most people in Ireland are convicted off) and you are driving a car and kill someone should you get the death penalty ?

Without knowing the facts this seems to be a crime of passion. The suspect turned himself in.

Does anyone know the re offending rate for murders in Ireland? Bet it is 0 % or very very close to it.

Sammia

Dudess wrote: »

"Gleeful" as in overly enthusiastic, unable to hold back. And it's not childish or over sensitive just because you disagree with it - what IS childish is lynching. Have some thought for the parents ffs.

We can't avoid reality just because it isn't perfect, just as we can't avoid the fact that a 12 year old left the house at midnight with her parents knowledge. I feel dreadful for the parents & wouldn't wish the guilt they must be feeling on anyone, except the perpatrator, but just as how we look at how the HSE & child services have made mistakes that contributed to tragedies (Although were not the cause), we must look at how parent's have made mistakes that have also led to tragedies (Again, I'm not saying these mistakes were the cause). If we don't identify mistakes, we cannot learn from them. I assume you are not a parent Dudess, I am. This is perhaps the reason why my instincts made me look at the parents, because I often look at myself when considering my child's actions.
Their guilt is more punishment than any sentence a judge could ever give & I don't think they should be considered by any court of law, because yes, it was a mistake, but unfortunately a fatal mistake. I hope many people will learn a lesson from it, it may prevent possible tragedies in the future.

Erica<3

It annoys me that some people on here aren't reading posts properly and making out that some users are accusing the parents of being the ones at fault. No they did not murder their daughter, but they did allow her out at midnight when a child of her age should have been at home, so yes, their negligence played a part, and that will come out in the trial.

MrStuffins

Erica<3 wrote: »

It annoys me that some people on here aren't reading posts properly and making out that some users are accusing the parents of being the ones at fault. No they did not murder their daughter, but they did allow her out at midnight when a child of her age should have been at home, so yes, their negligence played a part, and that will come out in the trial.

Yeah, but don't you see that instead of saying "This girl was murdered by a murderer" they completely bypass that and say "If the parents hadn't let her out it wouldn't have happened".

Absolute balls!

If her parents hadn't conceived her she'd never have been murdered either, are they at fault for this too?

amen

"If the parents hadn't let her out it wouldn't have happened".

but that is a fact. Why would anyone let their 12 old daughter/son out at 12 oclock at night?

Or for that matter anyone under the age of 18 ?

Parents have responsibilities towards their children.

mr kr0nik

starbelgrade wrote: »

Kudos to you & your perfect life.

No I'd say normal rather than perfect.

MrStuffins

amen wrote: »

but that is a fact. Why would anyone let their 12 old daughter/son out at 12 oclock at night?

Or for that matter anyone under the age of 18 ?

Parents have responsibilities towards their children.

Ok then.

Answer me this, other than a single quote where the words "stepped out for a minute" were used, what proof do you have that this girl was "Let out" at midnight? How do you know she didn't sneak out? Or just run out before her parents could stop her?

Banned Account

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ok then.

Answer me this, other than a single quote where the words "stepped out for a minute" were used, what proof do you have that this girl was "Let out" at midnight? How do you know she didn't sneak out? Or just run out before her parents could stop her?

What proof do you have to say otherwise?

Don't be silly.

MrStuffins

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

What proof do you have to say otherwise?

Don't be silly.

The onus is not on me to prove she wasn't let out. I'm not the one saying she wasn't! You are the one saying she was.

Prove it!

amen

You are right I have no proof apart from several quotes in the newspaper that she was let you. Maybe she did run out but if I was the parent I would have gone after her and taken her back in.

Very few people want to accept responsibility for their actions or lack of them.

If she had been kept in she would not be dead.
I sure wasn't allowed out to friends at midnight when I was 12. I bet if you started a poll you would fine very few boardsies that were

mikom

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah, but don't you see that instead of saying "This girl was murdered by a murderer" they completely bypass that and say "If the parents hadn't let her out it wouldn't have happened".

Absolute balls!

If her parents hadn't conceived her she'd never have been murdered either, are they at fault for this too?

I conceived a child, and she was born.

I have 4 hotplates on my electric hob.
3 cold, and one which I have just switched off.
Do I allow my child venture her hand on to the hob in the hope the the hotplate she touches is cool.

Or do I prevent her from accessing the hob until she understands the dangers.

The Waltzing Consumer

MrStuffins wrote: »

The onus is not on me to prove she wasn't let out. I'm not the one saying she wasn't! You are the one saying she was.

Prove it!

Ah you are being an ass

Take it easy on the poster, if the girl went out, like they are reporting, it is pretty shocking parenting, if it turns out not to be the case, then there ya go, you were right.

MrStuffins

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Ah you are being an ass

Take it easy on the poster, if the girl went out, like they are reporting, it is pretty shocking parenting, if it turns out not to be the case, then there ya go, you were right.

Indeed. The point im making is, this girl is dead, and everyone wants to slate these parents, who have just lost their 12 year old daughter, for "letting her out" at 12.

They did not murder their daughter!

MrStuffins

mikom wrote: »

I conceived a child, and she was born.

I have 4 hotplates on my electric hob.
3 cold, and one which I have just switched off.
Do I allow my child venture her hand on to the hob in the hope the the hotplate she touches is cool.

Or do I prevent her from accessing the hob until she understands the dangers.

This is nowhere near a similar situation.

Try again!

mikom

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is nowhere near a similar situation.

Try again!

I can make the hob come on at 12 o'clock for you, if you like.

MrStuffins

mikom wrote: »

I can make the hob come on at 12 o'clock for you, if you like.

Can you make the hob rape and murder a little girl?

mikom

MrStuffins wrote: »

Can you make the hob rape and murder a little girl?

This is nowhere near a similar situation.

Try again!

cynder

The way i see it is:

she should have been home in bed a t 12 and not popping out for a few Min's.

The person should not have murdered the girl - regardless of age

The girl did not have the maturity at 12 to deal with what ever situation occurred before she was murdered (perhaps an older girl would have more understanding of the situation)

The only people who know what happened are the girl who is dead and the person who killed her.

The guy with give his version of events,
Forensics will give their scientific input
but at the end of the day the jury will decide.


* these are my own thoughts

If i was a 12 year old pretending to be 17 and I met a 19 year old i thought was cute and played up to him and things got heated and there was kissing and maybe a bit of undressing, maybe a bit of heavy petting, i get freaked and tell him I'm only 12 and he ****s and starts calling me a bitch and then looses it and starts choking me, because now his a child molester/pedophile (?rapist), he stops choking me, but i am now dead, he is now a murder/ child molester/ rapist/pedophile.

I don't even know if the guy that was arrested even knew the girl, it could have been a spare of the moment thing, he sure didn't plan it otherwise the body would have been harder to find.

We can only speculate, we wont know he truth until court is in process, I'm not calling for the death sentence yet,

anyone heard of :

Innocent until proven guilty....BY A COURT OF LAW.

MrStuffins

mikom wrote: »

This is nowhere near a similar situation.

Try again!

Exactly my point.

Try staying on topic.

mikom

MrStuffins wrote: »

Try staying on topic.

Hark at the modfather.

prinz

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah, but don't you see that instead of saying "This girl was murdered by a murderer" they completely bypass that and say "If the parents hadn't let her out it wouldn't have happened".
Absolute balls!

Absolute balls is right. Haven't seen anyone 'bypass' the fact that she was in fact murdered by someone other than her parents.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Answer me this, other than a single quote where the words "stepped out for a minute" were used, what proof do you have that this girl was "Let out" at midnight? How do you know she didn't sneak out? Or just run out before her parents could stop her?

Basically every news report of the incident has reported it that way. She left at x o'clock 'for a short time' (notice someone must have known what time she left the house at, if she left without their knowledge they wouldn't have the time she left at, nor be aware that she was due back) and when she didn't return in 2 hours or something like that her parents raised the alarm. Not one single news piece on this has alluded to her sneaking out or her parentd becoming alarmed that their 12 year old ran out before they could stop her.

Sammia

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah, but don't you see that instead of saying "This girl was murdered by a murderer" they completely bypass that and say "If the parents hadn't let her out it wouldn't have happened".

Absolute balls!

If her parents hadn't conceived her she'd never have been murdered either, are they at fault for this too?

NOBODY is bypassing the fact that she was murdered by a murderer. I think that everyone has accepted this, so much so that they do not see this factor of the incident open for debate.

As for the comment about her conception, conception isn't negligence, whereas by my standards, having a daughter of 12 out at midnight is. If my daughter left the house at that time I would be straight after her.

It is hell for her parents & they don't deserve punishment, but had she not been out, that night's events would have been entirely different. There is no denying that. In some ways this is similar to what happened with Madeleine McCann. Had her parents not left her she wouldn't have gone missing.

MrStuffins

prinz wrote: »

Absolute balls is right. Haven't seen anyone 'bypass' the fact that she was in fact murdered by someone other than her parents.



Basically every news report of the incident has reported it that way. She left at x o'clock 'for a short time' (notice someone must have known what time she left the house at, if she left without their knowledge they wouldn't have the time she left at, nor be aware that she was due back) and when she didn't return in 2 hours or something like that her parents raised the alarm. Not one single news piece on this has alluded to her sneaking out or her parentd becoming alarmed that their 12 year old ran out before they could stop her.

the crux of this thread is "it's the fault of the parents" and "kill the killers".

I agree that she shouldn't have been let out at 12, but there's nothing to say that this guy wouldn't have murdered her at 8 in the evening!

CK2010

there has been many a time ive popped out at ridiculous hours to collect something off a friend that ive forgotten, meet them half way as they drop it over or whatever, nobody in the house would bat an eyelid (now admitedly im not twelve, im a full grown adult but im making a point so go along with it), however if i said 'im going out and will be back in a few hours' as opposed to saying il be back in a few mins, there'd be some questions asked.

she could have had friends over (maybe as good parents, they wouldnt let her out late so they came to her instead) and one of her friends left their phone on the table and they just left seconds ago so she ran after them with it. something so simple that the parents wouldnt even register how it could be bad parenting to let her do that, she lived on a nice road and she'd only be a sec.

I am not for one minute saying that this is what happened at all, and unfortunately it looks like there may not be a rational/non sinister explanation for why she was out that late. but my point was that people shouldnt instantly accuse them of being bad parents for what they did or didnt do that night. sometimes there are reasonable explanations for things that we just dont consider when we're busy making knee-jerk accusations, in this case it doesnt look likely tbh. and im not making excuses for this case or trying to say that the parents werent in the wrong or allowing her to be out late, im just saying that just because it sounds sinister and negligent (sp?) from afar doesnt mean it was in reality.

also, il admit that i personally wouldnt let my twelve year old out that late even in the circumstances i gave above but that doesnt mean that all parents wouldnt, and it certainly doesnt mean they are bad parents if they would.

the girl is dead and the only person to blame is the person who killed her. the parents, im sure, are blaming themselves enough. as a mother who feels guilt every day that just comes hand in hand with being a parent i can only imagine how they are feeling in this situation.

mikom

MrStuffins wrote: »

but there's nothing to say that this guy wouldn't have murdered her at 8 in the evening!

Conveniently forgetting daylight and a greater presence of people/friends about.

MrStuffins

mikom wrote: »

Conveniently forgetting daylight and a greater presence of people/friends about.

Says the guy who likens rape and murder with putting your hand on a hob

:rolleyes:

CK2010

mikom wrote: »

Conveniently forgetting daylight and a greater presence of people/friends about.

well tbh if it was day time and she was in the guys house hanging out it stil could have happened. i do agree though that the later it is the more dangerous it can be outside. due to the reason you just gave.

MrStuffins

mikom wrote: »

Conveniently forgetting daylight and a greater presence of people/friends about.

By the way, do you know the place she was killed?

I do, i live quite close, and he could have killed her just as easy at 8 o'clock. Sunlight or no sunlight!

cynder

Sammia wrote: »

It is hell for her parents & they don't deserve punishment, but had she not been out, that night's events would have been entirely different. There is no denying that. In some ways this is similar to what happened with Madeleine McCann. Had her parents not left her she wouldn't have gone missing.

It might seem cruel for me to say this, but at least they have a body to bury the Mc Canns are still in limbo. poor maddie:(

ldxo15wus6fpgm

MrStuffins wrote: »

the crux of this thread is "it's the fault of the parents" and "kill the killers".

I agree that she shouldn't have been let out at 12, but there's nothing to say that this guy wouldn't have murdered her at 8 in the evening!

But she survived past 8pm didn't she?
Odds are this fella wouldn't have tried anything (if he did anything at all, let's not forget the guy is still innocent) while other people were still around. She would not have been killed had she been in her home at that hour.

mikom

MrStuffins wrote: »

By the way, do you know the place she was killed?

I do, i live quite close, and he could have killed her just as easy at 8 o'clock. Sunlight or no sunlight!

And her body was found by an elderly man out for a walk along the canal in daylight.
No chance he would have stumbled upon the actual murder taking place in daylight, no?

MrStuffins

Stephanie Rancid Leader wrote: »

But she survived past 8pm didn't she?
Odds are this fella wouldn't have tried anything (if he did anything at all, let's not forget the guy is still innocent) while other people were still around. She would not have been killed had she been in her home at that hour.

What are the odds of being murdered at 8pm exactly?

thebullkf

what i'd like to know is what a 15 year old is doing on Boards @ close to

1 am on a school night.


also like to know why the girls parents aren't being charged with simething-by all accounts they knew their 12 yo was leaving the house.

i don't care how they're portrayed : thats poor parenting. simple as.

someone else also alluded to Maddie- that was also poor parenting.
chances are neither child would be missing/dead with proper care.

{I'm a parent myself and tbh unless you've kids yourself you can't begin to imagine the horror.}

ldxo15wus6fpgm

MrStuffins wrote: »

What are the odds of being murdered at 8pm exactly?

Couldn't tell ya. What I could tell ya is that they're lower than being murdered at midnight.

sock puppet

MrStuffins wrote: »

By the way, do you know the place she was killed?

I do, i live quite close, and he could have killed her just as easy at 8 o'clock. Sunlight or no sunlight!

No one would risk murdering someone there in the evening. The odds of someone finding you are high enough between people walking and drinking there. However there are plenty of other out of the way places around.

Doesn't change the fact that she shouldn't have been let out though.

Stephanie Rancid Leader

Stephanie Rancid Leader wrote: »

But she survived past 8pm didn't she?
Odds are this fella wouldn't have tried anything (if he did anything at all, let's not forget the guy is still innocent) while other people were still around. She would not have been killed had she been in her home at that hour.

You're right. When things like this happen the perpetrator is always thinking perfectly rationally and there is no likelihood he would do anything stupid or ill-advised.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

Deleted User wrote: »

You're right. When things like this happen the perpetrator is always thinking perfectly rationally and there is no likelihood he would do anything stupid or ill-advised.

How many murders like this do you hear about, where there are a crowd of witnesses to the actual killing?

It doesn't matter how irrationally he's thinking, he's going to wait until he can get her alone (which is exactly what has happened). Less chance of him being interrupted, and less chance of being caught.