How to get ahead of other buyers

Alicat

Boyfriend and I are looking to buy our first house. We have our eyes on one particular type of house in a new development. There are, so far, only a handful of this type in the development. They are not built yet but will be soon.

We've been told by the agent for the development that they have quite a bit of interest in these type of houses and have our names down on 'the list' for one. We've seen the plans online, and have picked a particular plot in the estate and I really have my heart set on this particular one (the location in the estate is super). Assuming nothing disastrous happens with house prices (ie. jumping up by huge amounts) we feel it should be in our price range, albeit close to the top.

Allowing for some fibbing on the part of the agents/developers in regards to exactly how much interest they have in these houses, what's the best way to wriggle our way to the top of the list? On one hand I'm thinking we should be contacting the agents persistantly to make sure they know we are really really interested. On the other hand, I don't want to be too keen, resulting in them bumping up the price of the house.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how we should approach this? I really really want this house

Tigger

i'm a bit jagered; is it 2005 again ?

mikom

" Trapped in the past, Doctor Beckett finds himself leaping from life to life, putting things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time........ that his next leap will be the leap home."

Alicat

If you think I'm silly for worrying about it, I'd appreciate you saying so rather than cracking some jokes.

Rabble Rabble

if you want the house, and can get credit, it is yours.

Tigger

Alicat wrote: »

If you think I'm silly for worrying about it, I'd appreciate you saying so rather than cracking some jokes.

write this down.

do not buy the house !

if you want to live somewhere then rent there if it dosent exist then you dont want to live there.

when i used to tellpeeps dont buy the house (2003-2006) it was hard but now , really it should be easy

please fpor the love of ned

dont buy the house!

now back to quantum leap

Alicat

Tigger wrote: »

write this down.

do not buy the house !

if you want to live somewhere then rent there if it dosent exist then you dont want to live there.

when i used to tellpeeps dont buy the house (2003-2006) it was hard but now , really it should be easy

please fpor the love of ned

dont buy the house!

now back to quantum leap

That's not what I asked but thanks for your input

Tigger

yer welcome

don't buy the house!

Senna

Alicat wrote: »

to wriggle our way to the top of the list

I wouldn't worry about any list, estate agents will have people on a list for a development, but think of it as one of those "click this box if you'd like to hear more about our great offer", a few people might click it, but the percentage of them that are interested is tiny.

I'm not going to say "dont buy", but there are many more dangers involved in buying in a new development now. Disregarding what the EA tell you, when will this development be finished fully (not just that phase), you dont want to live in a building site for the next 20 years (thousands of people all over Ireland are and will be).

You sound like your already emotionally involved with this property, alarm bells should be ringing in your ears, bad decisions are made when the heart rules that head. There are 0000's of houses, few unique, most identical to 00's others. The property market is in turmoil, any decision to buy now must be made with a sensible head.

Treehouse72

Alicat wrote: »

Boyfriend and I are looking to buy our first house. We have our eyes on one particular type of house in a new development. There are, so far, only a handful of this type in the development. They are not built yet but will be soon.

We've been told by the agent for the development that they have quite a bit of interest in these type of houses and have our names down on 'the list' for one. We've seen the plans online, and have picked a particular plot in the estate and I really have my heart set on this particular one (the location in the estate is super). Assuming nothing disastrous happens with house prices (ie. jumping up by huge amounts) we feel it should be in our price range, albeit close to the top.

Allowing for some fibbing on the part of the agents/developers in regards to exactly how much interest they have in these houses, what's the best way to wriggle our way to the top of the list? On one hand I'm thinking we should be contacting the agents persistantly to make sure they know we are really really interested. On the other hand, I don't want to be too keen, resulting in them bumping up the price of the house.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how we should approach this? I really really want this house

Do the words "Property Crash" mean anything to you?

Do you know by how much house prices are dropping every month?

Are you aware that it is almost impossible to get a mortgage at the moment?

Are you aware that interest rates are rising?

Do you know that there are 300,000 empty properties in the State?

Have you heard about the 500,000 people unemployed?

Do you know that we have a €22b deficit that is being addressed by wage cuts and money being sucked from the economy, all to be announced in the December budget?

Have you ever heard of ghost estates (I see your development is unfinished)?

Are you aware that NAMA, any day now, is going to have to start liquidating its sizeable property stock?

Do you know that most of the country's largest developers are bankrupt?

Have you heard that over 30,000 people are in serious arrears with their mortgages?

Do you know that hundreds of thousands are in negative equity?

Have you heard about the thousands of our citizens emigrating?

And about immigrants returning home by the boatload?

Do you know about our ever spiralling cost of borrowing and our near €100b national debt?

Have you heard about the c.€30b the state is pouring into Anglo, and God knows how much to the other banks, that will need to be paid for by taxpayers?




Have you considered any of these questions? If not, please look into them as a matter of extreme urgency.

And if you have considered them, could I ask how you have come to the conclusion that house prices might rise and that there is likely to be a tsunami of rabid buyers gasping to get in ahead of you to buy the property you are interested in?

@OP

@OP

Please look!!!
This can't be the only house available.. Read what others have said (above and take note) and look at other (web)sites.
If this is the type of house you want look at secondhand ones of similar calibre as well.

This is a buyers market so treat it as so, and remember, the banks hold all the cards when it come to getting a mortgage and they have few cards right now!

Please be careful! the site Askaboutmoney.com is full of "o shít I'm skint stories!"

Alicat

Yes! I'm aware of all those things you stated. I'm also aware that the first batch of these houses, mainly the ones of a smiliar type to the ones I like, were sold extremely quickly, even with all of those things you mentioned above. So some people were obviously quite successfull in getting their mortgage! We have already discussed our mortgage with our lender and will have no problems, and I'm sure there are other people like us.

The development is unfinished, but largely because it only began a couple of months ago. The builder is right to be releasing them in phases, so he can see how well they are going to go. No point in building an estate that's going to be two thirds empty. But the first phase has flown. The next phase will only be released in about six months, giving lots of people time to view the estate and build up a good interest. People who missed out on this phase will surely be looking to the next one, seeing as it is only mere months away. The only two other properties similar to our one are placed very close to the main road, so I know that the one we are looking at will be targetted by anyone in a similar position to us as it is placed very well in the estate.

When I mentioned the unlikely event of house prices rising, I was trying to explain that we are totally ready to buy. I don't expect them to rise, but this would be the only thing that would stop us, were it to happen (like a tsunami!). The new houses are slightly bigger and will be priced accordingly, but these prices have not be released yet.

If everyone is of the opinion that I am just paranoid, and that there will be no problem, I am quite happy to accept that opinion. I'm not stupid, but I am a first time buyer and excuse me for having some worries about it.

Alicat

Deleted User wrote: »

@OP

Please look!!!
This can't be the only house available.. Read what others have said (above and take note) and look at other (web)sites.
If this is the type of house you want look at secondhand ones of similar calibre as well.

This is a buyers market so treat it as so, and remember, the banks hold all the cards when it come to getting a mortgage and they have few cards right now!

Please be careful! the site Askaboutmoney.com is full of "o shít I'm skint stories!"

Thanks for the reply. I am aware that it's not the only house available, but it is our preferred house. I could 'settle' for others in the area but I'd rather not waste hundreds of thousands of euro on a house we are 'settling' for. We are in no rush to buy, but at the same time this is the first house that we have found in a year that has met our standards.

I am aware that it is a buyer's market, and I would like to get it for the lowest price I can. I don't want to be too interested in the house to the agent as I don't want them getting cheeky and adding a few grand to the house, when I could get it for less.

I don't want to get into personal details, but the mortgage is fine. It's all settled, you'll just have to trust me on this one!

Tigger

Sine you didn't thank my posts I'll say you should buy the house it sounds great value the place will be finished and handed over pronto and shure rent is ded money

Also http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32268&start=0

uncanny

Alicat wrote: »

We've been told by the agent for the development that they have quite a bit of interest in these type of houses and have our names down on 'the list' for one.

Allowing for some fibbing on the part of the agents/developers in regards to exactly how much interest they have in these houses, what's the best way to wriggle our way to the top of the list?

Ring the agent every single day for an update on your place on "the list". Once every 8 weeks, do not ring for an update - just to keep them guessing and not appear "overly interested".

Oh, and drink two litres of distilled water every morning to preserve the essence of your natural bodily fluids. You lunatic.

Alicat

Tigger wrote: »

Sine you didn't thank my posts I'll say you should buy the house it sounds great value the place will be finished and handed over pronto and shure rent is ded money

You just didn't answer my question, that's the only reason for it. I'm not asking for opinions on whether I should buy it or not. I want to know how.

I shall thank your posts if it makes you feel better!

Alicat

uncanny wrote: »

Ring the agent every single day for an update on your place on "the list". Once every 8 weeks, do not ring for an update - just to keep them guessing and not appear "overly interested".

Oh, and drink two litres of distilled water every morning to preserve the essence of your natural bodily fluids. You lunatic.

Jeez, everyone's a comedian on here :P

I can accept being called a lunatic. It's great! It means I can relax and stop worrying, which is what I came for. Some reassurance from people who have some experience.

God help any thin-skinned newbies looking for help!

Alicat

Senna wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about any list, estate agents will have people on a list for a development, but think of it as one of those "click this box if you'd like to hear more about our great offer", a few people might click it, but the percentage of them that are interested is tiny.

I'm not going to say "dont buy", but there are many more dangers involved in buying in a new development now. Disregarding what the EA tell you, when will this development be finished fully (not just that phase), you dont want to live in a building site for the next 20 years (thousands of people all over Ireland are and will be).

You sound like your already emotionally involved with this property, alarm bells should be ringing in your ears, bad decisions are made when the heart rules that head. There are 0000's of houses, few unique, most identical to 00's others. The property market is in turmoil, any decision to buy now must be made with a sensible head.

I am getting slightly emotionally involved, I do recognise that. But I think it's only right to strike a balance between the head and the heart when buying a long term investment. We have seen other houses that we considered and then realised that their seemingly tiny flaws would probably rear their ugly heads in a few years and we could be stuck with them. I don't want to buy a house only to hate living in it a few years later. I know that I don't have the option of selling up and moving whenever I want. This has to be long term. The house and the area are perfect for the two of us now, and if/when we start a family.

I have a family member involved in the banking business and a friend in the development business. Both are well prepared to steer me away from any bad investments, they have no qualms in slapping me down if it's required! However, I will dig a little deeper into the plans for the estate. I do appreciate that it is something to consider seriously. If the purchase is too risky, I am prepared to drop it.

MaceFace

Alicat wrote: »

I am getting slightly emotionally involved, I do recognise that. But I think it's only right to strike a balance between the head and the heart when buying a long term investment. We have seen other houses that we considered and then realised that their seemingly tiny flaws would probably rear their ugly heads in a few years and we could be stuck with them. I don't want to buy a house only to hate living in it a few years later. I know that I don't have the option of selling up and moving whenever I want. This has to be long term. The house and the area are perfect for the two of us now, and if/when we start a family.

I have a family member involved in the banking business and a friend in the development business. Both are well prepared to steer me away from any bad investments, they have no qualms in slapping me down if it's required! However, I will dig a little deeper into the plans for the estate. I do appreciate that it is something to consider seriously. If the purchase is too risky, I am prepared to drop it.

Seriously?
You picked a house that has not even been built yet and are unwilling to listen to people who are trying to explain to you that your making a huge mistake.
You appear to be very emotionally involved, and I am going out on a limb here to say that this will be your first house. Otherwise you would know that there is no such thing as a perfect house.

Let me ask you a few questions:
* What are your neighbours like?
* Are there trucks parked outside your door/on your road?
* Any gangs of teenagers hanging around the place?
* Is there a history of flooding in the area?
* What is traffic in the estate like?
* How many more houses are due to go in over the next 10 years?
* What are the chances the developer going bust in the next 10 years?
* What is the build quality of the house like?
* Any social/affordable housing in the estate/next door?

Like seriously, these are the type of things that can turn an ideal home into a nightmare and while during the boom we were led to believe we had to take these chances before they were priced out of our range, in a falling market (with no signs of it stopping), there is no excuse for being so nieve.

However, if you want to ensure your at the top of the list, go in and tell them the plot you want and offer 10k more to guarantee it.

monkeypants

Don't forget to factor in property tax. We don't have one yet, but I think it's only a matter of time and it'll start at around a grand a year. It'll go up, never down.

Calina

Alicat wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I am aware that it's not the only house available, but it is our preferred house.

The house does not exist yet. How you can claim to prefer it to all other houses, including a bunch of houses that do exist is beyond me.

No way in hell would I buy a house or an apartment off the plans. I have seen enough complaints about snag lists not completed, completion dates slipping, specfications changing prior to completion. While I understand that it suits the finances of developers to sell from plans, it is not necessarily in your interest to buy from them.

I have no advice to get you further up a popularity list with an estate agent. You are talking lots of money and there is never only one house. If this is the only house for you then I am sorry. There is no point in anyone offering you any advice because you will not heed any of it.

triskellion

To answer the question you actually asked Alicat, there's no need to be calling the agent or the builder on a regular basis.
If you just keep an eye on the site you'll see where the construction is at. You can by all means make an offer on the house at any stage you wish, it is after all a buyers market and it will help the builder bank the project.
It's a bit of a catch 22 as banks are reticent to lend to builders to spec build and unlikely to lend to buyers for homes off plans.
As loan offers have a finite time line, if you are looking to buy from plans, even if you're approved at the time you agree to buy, the offer will most likely have expired by the time the house is ready to move into, so it's essential any contract that issues has a subject to loan approval clause. That was if the value drops in the interim and your attached loan offer follows suit, you can get your deposit back or renegotiate the deal.
There's no need to get too worked up at this stage I'd say so just relax and take your time.

Raskolnikov

Alicat wrote: »

The development is unfinished, but largely because it only began a couple of months ago.

You just cannot understate the risk of buying in an uncompleted development at this point. If the builder goes out of business, you will be stuck living on a building site, in a vastly depreciated house that you can't sell. I am not scaremongering; this is a reality that thousands of people are already facing.

whippet

It might not be what you want to hear OP but I am going to throw in my two cents:

I made the same mistake 5 years ago. Now I am trying to get out. I have my house on the market, and will have to fork out money from my savings to buy out my negative equity. I am doing it now to ensure that I can actually do it.

I intend to rent for the short to medium term, until I see what the lie of the land is and probably build myself then.

The reality is: if you sign contracts now for a house off the plans, by the time you move in you will already be in negative equity (unless you have a whopper of a deposit cashwise, probably 30%) House prices are going one direction and one direction only for the next 12 - 24 months.

Also, you have mentioned that you will be buying at the top of your budget. Take note that interest rates from the ECB are still at historically low levels, again these can only go in one direction.

With a surety that interest rates are on the rise and property prices are still moving south .. this is a recipe for disaster .. this is what has the country in a mess.

I seriously doubt if any new developement has a waiting list of eager buyers queuing up to buy, I am sure there are little white lies being spun by the estate agents. Newbuilds are like crippled greyhounds, nobody can get rid of them.

Buying in an uncomplete estate now really is madness. There are hundreds of estates all around the country which are incomplete and the likelyhood is that they will remain like that for years to come, building sites.

Developers who want to cannot source credit to complete their projects, the banks won't lend to them. Don't get drawn in by the marketing of the estate agents and developers .... do your own due dilligance.

Also, when you look to draw down your mortgage the bank will be doing their own valuation of the property and if they feel the same as most people posting here they will not approve your mortgage!

Harsh words, but not without foundation.

I got burned, have managed to see the light and fortunatly have an option to get out .. but many more can't.

monkeypants

whippet wrote: »

Also, you have mentioned that you will be buying at the top of your budget. Take note that interest rates from the ECB are still at historically low levels, again these can only go in one direction.

To add to that, the interest rates in this country have very little to do with the ECB rate (apart from people on trackers, which you can't get anymore). The Irish banks are raising their rates two/three times a year in their efforts to recapitalise.

whippet wrote: »

Buying in an uncomplete estate now really is madness. There are hundreds of estates all around the country which are incomplete and the likelyhood is that they will remain like that for years to come, building sites.

There's a lot of talk around demolishing these developments, that's how bad it all is.

daltonm

Alicat wrote: »

Boyfriend and I are looking to buy our first house. We have our eyes on one particular type of house in a new development. There are, so far, only a handful of this type in the development. They are not built yet but will be soon.

We've been told by the agent for the development that they have quite a bit of interest in these type of houses and have our names down on 'the list' for one. We've seen the plans online, and have picked a particular plot in the estate and I really have my heart set on this particular one (the location in the estate is super). Assuming nothing disastrous happens with house prices (ie. jumping up by huge amounts) we feel it should be in our price range, albeit close to the top.

Allowing for some fibbing on the part of the agents/developers in regards to exactly how much interest they have in these houses, what's the best way to wriggle our way to the top of the list? On one hand I'm thinking we should be contacting the agents persistantly to make sure they know we are really really interested. On the other hand, I don't want to be too keen, resulting in them bumping up the price of the house.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how we should approach this? I really really want this house

I think there is one thing you can be sure of Ali - and that is you are definately top of the agents list. The spin has worked on you - you are completely hooked - as the EA intended.
Irrespective of your status as a FTB, you are making the same mistakes that many have made before you - and have lived to regret it.
Yes buying a home is a very exciting time - but you are dismissing very important factors such as the mortgage.
Also buying with a partner has a very high risk attached it.

Have you fixed the mortgage for 5 years? If so you need to believe that the 5% (*approx) interest rate will certainly NOT apply in 5 years time - will it be lower when you are coming out of it? I very much doubt it - so you need to stress test for at least 2% over that rate.
Can you be 100% certain you will be with your b/f in 5 years?
Can you and your b/f afford the mortgage by yourself? In the event one of you loses your jobs? Or in the unlikely event that you split up - can you or he afford the mortgage and pay another rent somewhere else if you both cannot live under the same roof?

There is no "balance" between head and heart - this is first and foremostly a business transaction. I say that because in the event of any of the issues above then business prevails - the banks won't care about your "emotions" they'll simply want their money.

I could nearly forgive someone making your mistake during the boom, but with what has happened and what is on the way - to leap into this using the reasoning you are using is financial suicide.

It is merely an unfinished house in an unfinished housing estate. The completion of which is completely dependant on luring as many naive FTB's in as they can, the banks are playing their roles with their "teaser" rate mortgages on low interest rates that will rise in 5 years leaving you very exposed.

On a typical 250k mortgage after 5 years there is still approx 230k to be paid off (using 5% rates) if that rate is higher then your mortgage in 5 years could be several hundred euro more per month than what it is now.
Will you have the pay increases to cope with that? Will you have kids and creche fees in 5 years?

Take a step back, stress test yourself and your boyfriend as a precaution and limit your risk and exposure.

Good Luck

Ortiz

Alicat when making a bid on this property don't be afraid to go very low at first and see what feedback you get. I agree with a post above that many of these lists simply have people that just enquire and get put on a list or just go on a list for the craic. Don't worry too much. I wouldn't be surprised if you're the only serious buyer out of the lot so keep that in mind.

Prices are going to fall further there's no doubt about that but you didn't start this thread to ask should I buy. Unfortunately this forum has many idiots that just spit the same stuff out at every opportunity even though they weren't asked.

Good luck with it

Goesague

The way to get to the top of the list is to let the agent
1. Know that you have the money to complete.
2. Give the agent the impression that you have a house to sell after you move in.
3. Visit the site occasionally and do not complain about anything until you have a signed contract. Do not ask about changing anything.

CiaranC

Raskolnikov wrote: »

You just cannot understate the risk of buying in an uncompleted development at this point. If the builder goes out of business, you will be stuck living on a building site, in a vastly depreciated house that you can't sell. I am not scaremongering; this is a reality that thousands of people are already facing.

What he said.

OP, if you buy this house you will most likely cripple yourself financially for life.

testicle

There are other buyers to get ahead of???

iguana

Alicat wrote: »

I'm also aware that the first batch of these houses, mainly the ones of a smiliar type to the ones I like, were sold extremely quickly,

How do you know those houses have sold? Have the new owners moved in already? There have been recorded cases of EAs/developers putting sold signs on unsold properties, and even going so far as to park cars out front/hang curtains/etc, in order to make it look as if there is demand where none existed so potentially interested buyers feel under pressure to put down deposits.