Tony Blairs booky wook

Nodin

Denerick wrote: »

I think Bush is preparing to publish after the midterms.

I think I'll probably pass on that.

Indeed. Out of curiosity, I did a google....
http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/kfcwauidauid/rss2/

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

I think Bush is preparing to publish after the midterms.

I think I'll probably pass on that.

Why? I will read that too, should be interesting.

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why? I will read that too, should be interesting.

At least Blair wrote his own book.

Permabear

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Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

At least Blair wrote his own book.

I was hoping it would be in texas drawl.

Denerick

donegalfella wrote: »

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The distinction is in authenticity. I want to be able to understand the mind, not just the rhetoric of the author. You only get that if the man himself is writing it down, not telling some ghostwriter his story and adding in at the end, 'try to make me look good, capiche?'

20Cent

donegalfella wrote: »

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Isn't he great.
Guess we should forget the whole war based on lies thing cos he can write a book. Such a clever fellow.

Denerick

20Cent wrote: »

Isn't he great.
Guess we should forget the whole war based on lies thing cos he can write a book. Such a clever fellow.

Did you mean 'because'?

ANarcho-Munk

Denerick wrote: »

Did you mean 'because'?

caseyann

20Cent wrote: »

Isn't he great.
Guess we should forget the whole war based on lies thing cos he can write a book. Such a clever fellow.

You are all so easily sucked into the whole war on lies theory.:D Bad **** in the country and bad people doing bad things who are a threat to western nations and to people who want freedom in those countries also.
I do believe they should get out of there now,they will get no thanks for it.

Evil west :mad:

Permabear

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Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

You are all so easily sucked into the whole war on lies theory.

Its been amply demonstrated that the case for war was made using half truths, exaggerations and outright lies. I suggest trying to refute the evidence proferred, rather than coming in with some silly statement.

20Cent

donegalfella wrote: »

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Its just because you have been defending him for the whole thread.

A Dub in Glasgo

caseyann wrote: »

You are all so easily sucked into the whole war on lies theory.

Ironic statement considering it was the pro-war side who were all so easily sucked into the 45 minute WMD fabrication

Denerick

20Cent wrote: »

Its just because you have been defending him for the whole thread.

Having an ability to reason and think in proportion does not make somebody an apologist. Is it his fault that Blair has become a carnival figure for a group of people who appear to have nothing better to do with their free time?

Valmont

Denerick wrote: »

Is it his fault that Blair has become a carnival figure for a group of people who appear to have nothing better to do with their free time?

They might be keeping their anarchy flags fresh while waiting for the next round of third level fees proposal protests.

Permabear

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irishconvert

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ok, what course of action do you think people should undertake in order to protest at a war criminal coming to town?

irishconvert

caseyann wrote: »

You are all so easily sucked into the whole war on lies theory.:D Bad **** in the country and bad people doing bad things who are a threat to western nations and to people who want freedom in those countries also.
I do believe they should get out of there now,they will get no thanks for it.

Evil west :mad:

You really need to take that blindfold off. Seriously, are you a 6 year old kid who thinks the west can do no wrong?

20Cent

donegalfella wrote: »

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And the obligatory attacks on all "leftists".

Denerick

20Cent wrote: »

And the obligatory attacks on all "leftists".

I doubt he is attacking all leftists. Rather the point is being made that a certain constituency, the militant left, predominantly engage in intimidation and political violence so as to make their point. As opposed to reasonable discussion and peaceful dissent.

Permabear

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Memnoch

This whole violent protest crap is a complete and utter red herring and you know it.

Some people acted like idiots, and they shouldn't have, we get it.

But that does not de-legitimise the entire protest (that majority of the people there were peaceful), nor does it de-legitimise the opposition to Blair in general.

The constant focus on the "violent thugs," is utterly disingenuous and a weak and obvious distraction tactic.

irishconvert

donegalfella wrote: »

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There will never be a court of law with the balls to convict him of anything. Anyone who pushes an illegal war, goes against the UN, Nelson Mandela, and the opinion of every right minded person, and that war results in the deaths of 100,000's of people is a war criminal in my book. What would you call him?

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yes, I have no problem with someone throwing eggs or their shoes at foney Tony. It's child's play compared to what his troops did to innocent Iraqis.

Permabear

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irishconvert

donegalfella wrote: »

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So what is your opinion on Blair?

Eliot Rosewater

irishconvert wrote: »

So what is your opinion on Blair?

Given that we believe in free speech and freedom from attack for everyone regardless of their creed, our opinions on Blair are completely immaterial in the context of this discussion.

Permabear

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Eliot Rosewater

donegalfella wrote: »

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Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes: I just can't resist clicking the "Post Reply" button!

Permabear

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20Cent

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Given that we believe in free speech and freedom from attack for everyone regardless of their creed, our opinions on Blair are completely immaterial in the context of this discussion.

The beauty of "libertarianism", you can slag off everyone else and not have a realistic opinion of your own.

irishconvert

donegalfella wrote: »

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What a cop out.

OhNoYouDidn't

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Given that we believe in free speech and freedom from attack for everyone regardless of their creed, our opinions on Blair are completely immaterial in the context of this discussion.

No its not and thats a cop out. Do you think his actions have made him a legitimate target for protest or not?

Libertarians oppose international wars. Libertarians oppose courts. So logically libertarians should support individuals taking a stand themselves. Thats the whole point is it not?

Denerick

20Cent wrote: »

The beauty of "libertarianism", you can slag off everyone else and not have a realistic opinion of your own.

I think believing that everyone has an inalienable right to freedom of expression without facing intimidation or violence is a worthy opinion in its own right.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

I think believing that everyone has an inalienable right to freedom of expression without facing intimidation or violence is a worthy opinion in its own right.

But they are being asked their opinion on the protest itself, not the derived Joe Duffy nonsense

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But they are being asked their opinion on the protest itself, not the derived Joe Duffy nonsense

If you feel that political violence is appropriate then you are indeed a fascist. There is not much anyone can say to dissuade you of such views.

Its a bit like trying to tell a dissident Republican why he is so wrong. Virtually impossible to get through to him.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

If you feel that political violence is appropriate then you are indeed a fascist. There is not much anyone can say to dissuade you of such views.

Its a bit like trying to tell a dissident Republican why he is so wrong. Virtually impossible to get through to him.

The debate has moved on from 'political violence' and is now asking the libertarians to explain their opinion on Blair and whether a peaceful protest is justified.

Laminations

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The debate has moved on from 'political violence' and is now asking the libertarians to explain their opinion on Blair and whether a peaceful protest is justified.

He has answered you. You just dont seem to listen

donegalfella wrote: »

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20Cent

Denerick wrote: »

I think believing that everyone has an inalienable right to freedom of expression without facing intimidation or violence is a worthy opinion in its own right.

That’s all fine and dandy on paper but in reality any assembly of people can attract some dodgy characters. To disregard the wishes of many protestors because of the actions of a handful would not be an honest interpretation of what happened. It would make it very easy to quash any decent also just send in someone to throw something and the whole march can be disregarded.
To suggests Blairs’ free speech is being impinged upon is ridiculous. His book has not been banned, he has access to whatever media he wants, to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Replying to him on the other hand is a different story. He is currently pimping yet another war this time with Iran, we could write letters or all stand in an orderly line tut tutting but that didn’t really work last time. To suggest that the protesters are fascist is further hyperbole.
Like I said libertarianism is an unrealistic ideology that allows one to look down on others while offering no solutions.

20Cent

Laminations wrote: »

He has answered you. You just dont seem to listen

Nice of you to reply for him.
So whats his opinion on Blair?

Soldie

20Cent wrote: »

Nice of you to reply for him.
So whats his opinion on Blair?

Why does his opinion on Blair matter? You seem to be (deliberately?) missing the point entirely.

Denerick

20Cent wrote: »

That’s all fine and dandy on paper but in reality any assembly of people can attract some dodgy characters. To disregard the wishes of many protestors because of the actions of a handful would not be an honest interpretation of what happened. It would make it very easy to quash any decent also just send in someone to throw something and the whole march can be disregarded.
To suggests Blairs’ free speech is being impinged upon is ridiculous. His book has not been banned, he has access to whatever media he wants, to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Replying to him on the other hand is a different story. He is currently pimping yet another war this time with Iran, we could write letters or all stand in an orderly line tut tutting but that didn’t really work last time. To suggest that the protesters are fascist is further hyperbole.
Like I said libertarianism is an unrealistic ideology that allows one to look down on others while offering no solutions.

I said on the evening before the march that a group of punk hairstyled twats would bring down the decorum of the event. I said this is why most ordinary decent people do not protest - because they do not want to be associated with people who appear to have nothing better to do with their free time.

There was around 200 people present. The majority at least were engaged in trying to charge through the Gardai lines or pelting eggs and shoes.

The protests didn't work before the war because a majority of the House of Commons voted for an invasion. If the British people cared enough they would have booted out the MPs who voted for the war and the Liberal Democrats would have won the 2005 election in a landslide. The more pertinant question is to ask why this did not happen.

Permabear

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AlekSmart

OhNoYouDidnt asked....

No its not and thats a cop out. Do you think his actions have made him a legitimate target for protest or not?

I wonder,given his somewhat individualistic radio interview this morning,if the actions of An Taoiseach Brian Cowen,constitute equally legitimate grounds for protest ??

20Cent

Denerick wrote: »

I said on the evening before the march that a group of punk hairstyled twats would bring down the decorum of the event. I said this is why most ordinary decent people do not protest - because they do not want to be associated with people who appear to have nothing better to do with their free time.

There was around 200 people present. The majority at least were engaged in trying to charge through the Gardai lines or pelting eggs and shoes.

The protests didn't work before the war because a majority of the House of Commons voted for an invasion. If the British people cared enough they would have booted out the MPs who voted for the war and the Liberal Democrats would have won the 2005 election in a landslide. The more pertinant question is to ask why this did not happen.

So you would not go to a protest if Eirigi, SWP et al were there even if you agreed with it?
Personally I don't let them decide what I do or do not do.

There was a lot more than 200 there and are you seriously saying over 100 (using your figure) people tried to charge through Garda lines and throw eggs at Blair? Sorry thats BS. Look at the video it was a handful.

20Cent

donegalfella wrote: »

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All good in Libertarian land.
In reality though if you get groups of people a percentage will be aholes.
Also in reality land powerful rich people are not held to the law the same way normal people are. Besides all that you are perfectly right.

Libertarians would be a godsend to some dictator they would all line up in a neat row saying down with this sort of thing and get walked all over.

Love how libertarianism is all about the individual. Except when it suits then all can be tarred with the same brush.

Denerick

20Cent wrote: »

So you would not go to a protest if Eirigi, SWP et al were there even if you agreed with it?
Personally I don't let them decide what I do or do not do.

There was a lot more than 200 there and are you seriously saying over 100 (using your figure) people tried to charge through Garda lines and throw eggs at Blair? Sorry thats BS. Look at the video it was a handful.

Most people are not prepared to forego a forenoon's work to protest at a retired British Prime Minister's book signing.

In other words most people have live's.

Nodin

Denerick wrote: »

There was around 200 people present. The majority at least were engaged in trying to charge through the Gardai lines or pelting eggs and shoes.

Theres no evidence of that whatsoever. I saw pictorial evidence of one solitary sandal. I'd suggest you provide evidence, or stop the wild exaggerations.

Permabear

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20Cent

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ignore points made, pick one and appear all reasonable and offended.
The more I come across this libertarianism the more crap it seems.