Tony Blairs booky wook

McDougal

Memnoch wrote: »

You still don't get it.

I think that calling people FASCISTS and EXTREMISTS and ACCUSING them of OPPRESSING FREEDOM OF SPEECH simply for PROTESTING is HYPOCRITICAL. Because you are doing the exact same thing for which you are accusing them of being against freedom of speech.

Also no distinction was made between peaceful protesters and those who might have thrown eggs or whatever. The comments were generalised.

Who gives a damn if someone threw an egg in the general direction of a war criminal. Saddam was hung for his crimes yet folk on here are outraged an egg was thrown at B.Lair

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Denerick

Memnoch wrote: »

You still don't get it.

I think that calling people FASCISTS and EXTREMISTS and ACCUSING them of OPPRESSING FREEDOM OF SPEECH simply for PROTESTING is HYPOCRITICAL. Because you are doing the exact same thing for which you are accusing them of being against freedom of speech.

Also no distinction was made between peaceful protesters and those who might have thrown eggs or whatever. The comments were generalised.

They tried to charge through the Gardaí lines. I've little doubt that if there hadn't been any Guards there Tony Blair would have been assaulted repeatedly.

If you think opposing mob violence is anti-freedom of speech then I really think you should read some political science. Start with Locke.

Eliot Rosewater

Memnoch wrote: »

...simply for PROTESTING...

Throwing eggs and being abusive both physically and verbally is not simply protesting.

Generalised remarks are, of course, never ideal. But, even the peaceful protesters, what were they protesting for? Were they protesting against Blair's being here? Do they think he shouldn't be allowed here? Were they protesting against the book? Against his right to publish a book?

Memnoch

McDougal wrote: »

Who gives a damn if someone threw an egg in the general direction of a war criminal. Saddam was hung for his crimes yet folk on here are outraged an egg was thrown at B.Lair

Because throwing eggs gives people an excuse to hide behind when they denounce legitimate protest and opposition to Tony Blair's propaganda campaign.

They can take the actions of a few over the top people to dismiss the whole as some kind of violent rabble.

I.E. It plays right into the hands of Blair and his supporters.

McDougal

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The same. But war criminals like Blair have no respect for what the people think.

Denerick wrote: »

If you think opposing mob violence is anti-freedom of speech then I really think you should read some political science. Start with Locke.

After the drivel you've been posting all day long I don't think anyone will take your reccommended reading seriously.

Denerick

McDougal wrote: »

After the drivel you've been posting all day long I don't think anyone will take your reccommended reading seriously.

Lay off Marx, you.

McDougal

Memnoch wrote: »

Because throwing eggs gives people an excuse to hide behind when they denounce legitimate protest and opposition to Tony Blair's propaganda campaign.

They can take the actions of a few over the top people to dismiss the whole as some kind of violent rabble.

I.E. It plays right into the hands of Blair and his supporters.

I disagree. If a few eggs is the difference between getting your message all around the world or not then a few eggs it is. The maimed and relatives of the dead in Iraq will now know that people in Ireland are showing solidarity with them.

Eliot Rosewater

McDougal wrote: »

I don't think anyone will take your reccommended reading seriously.

Poor for them, I say!









Okay, okay, the Denerick ass-licking ends here....:D

Memnoch

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Throwing eggs and being abusive both physically and verbally is not simply protesting.

Generalised remarks are, of course, never ideal. But, even the peaceful protesters, what were they protesting for? Were they protesting against Blair's being here? Do they think he shouldn't be allowed here? Were they protesting against the book? Against his right to publish a book?

I'm getting very frustrated now because if you are going to debate with me, please at least do me the COURTESY of reading my post in full before responding. Because you are making points that have already been refuted:

Namely this:

"Also no distinction was made between peaceful protesters and those who might have thrown eggs or whatever. The comments were generalised."

The people protesting his book signing are essentially fascists, opposed to freedom of speech and academic freedom.

This is why I despise most protestors and the pathetic hive mentality associated with it.

The Soviet Union is thataway

---

>

The people protesting are the same shower who'd shoot you if you had a friendship with a Protestant.

The same imbeciles who've kept this country back for generations.

My God how I'm sick of the retarded protestors who ruin this countries good name. I'd love to send them all off to Connaught.

He generalised ALL protesters. If he had said, "The people throwing shoes," that might have been different, but in most of his vitriol he chose to tar ALL protesters with the same brush and indeed seemed to IMPLY that anyone who took a position against Tony Blair's actions was of that ilk.

A Dub in Glasgo

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Generalised remarks are, of course, never ideal. But, even the peaceful protesters, what were they protesting for? Were they protesting against Blair's being here? Do they think he shouldn't be allowed here? Were they protesting against the book? Against his right to publish a book?

There were probably people there for all those reasons (& more) and if it is peaceful, who cares? Are you suggesting they should not even protest?

Jeboa Safari

McDougal wrote: »

I disagree. If a few eggs is the difference between getting your message all around the world or not then a few eggs it is. The maimed and relatives of the dead in Iraq will now know that people in Ireland are showing solidarity with them.

The irony is it will probably generate more interest and sales in Tony Blairs book

Eliot Rosewater

Memnoch wrote: »

I'm getting very frustrated now because if you are going to debate with me, please at least do me the COURTESY of reading my post in full before responding. Because you are making points that have already been refuted: ... He generalised ALL protesters.

But, I addressed the generalised nature of the comments.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

There were probably people there for all those reasons (& more) and if it is peaceful, who cares? Are you suggesting they should not even protest?

No. I'm suggesting there are still grounds to despise what they are doing.

Memnoch

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Generalised remarks are, of course, never ideal. But, even the peaceful protesters, what were they protesting for? Were they protesting against Blair's being here? Do they think he shouldn't be allowed here? Were they protesting against the book? Against his right to publish a book?

I guess you edited your post after I clicked "quote" to reply to you.

I believe they are protesting Eason's decision to AID propaganda by a war criminal.

I.E. Give Eason enough negative publicity that they will think again before engaging in such activity.

Tony Blair has a right to publish his book.

Eason have a right to promote it and call him over for a book signing.

And people have a right to say that they feel this is wrongful practise and criticise Eason for this and say they will not purchase from the store in future and to urge others to do the same, or simply to publicize the fact that Eason's actions are in support of what they believe to be a war criminal's propaganda.

Memnoch

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

But, I addressed the generalised nature of the comments.

Well I didn't see it the first time around. If it was there in your initial post then I must have missed it and apologise.

More likely you were amending your post while I was composing my reply.

(Note boards.ie doesn't always show a post as edited if the edit is soon enough after the initial post was made).

Eliot Rosewater

Okay, cool. Can we leave it at that? This thread's been a balloon of hot air and pedantry, and it's doing none of us any favours. The comments were over the top, and this was admitted. I think all that's needed to be said has been said.

No hard feelings, I hope.

A Dub in Glasgo

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

The irony is it will probably generate more interest and sales in Tony Blairs book

Ahh but, he is not personally benefiting allegedly

Memnoch

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Okay, cool. Can we leave it at that? This thread's been a balloon of hot air and pedantry, and it's doing none of us any favours. The comments were over the top, and this was admitted. I think all that's needed to be said has been said.

No hard feelings, I hope.

I agree.

And it's sad that we've been side tracked like this while the REAL issues meant to be raised by the protest have gone largely ignored.

Jeboa Safari

Memnoch wrote: »

I guess you edited your post after I clicked "quote" to reply to you.

I believe they are protesting Eason's decision to AID propaganda by a war criminal.

I.E. Give Eason enough negative publicity that they will think again before engaging in such activity.

Tony Blair has a right to publish his book.

Eason have a right to promote it and call him over for a book signing.

And people have a right to say that they feel this is wrongful practise and criticise Eason for this and say they will not purchase from the store in future and to urge others to do the same, or simply to publicize the fact that Eason's actions are in support of what they believe to be a war criminal's propaganda.

Easons would also be delighted at the free advertisement this has got them, a prime time slot on rte news, showing they are ahead of the game when it comes to new released books and getting big names to their stores. Poorly thought out protest if thats the case

Wolfe Tone

So who has read the book? Worth the money or should I go down the Library waiting list route?

Memnoch

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Easons would also be delighted at the free advertisement this has got them, a prime time slot on rte news, showing they are ahead of the game when it comes to new released books and getting big names to their stores. Poorly thought out protest if thats the case

The protest is certainly not poorly thought out. I for one didn't know Blair was coming over and might NOT have known, BUT for the protest.

Henceforth, I will endeavour to avoid shopping at Easons for the forseeable future. It might be pitiful and pointless but I guess it's that or nothing.

The protest was important. It shows Mr. Blair that there are still people out there who remember who he is and what he has done.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Memnoch

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Fair point. I don't mind them selling the book. PROMOTING it however, seems to legitimise Blair's stance.

As per your example, I would certainly take issue with them inviting Hitler over to sign copies of his book for his fans. But then, Western Corporations had little qualms about profiting from Hitler's regime so I guess it isn't really surprising.

Mr.Micro

After reading through the posts on this thread I note that many support Blair. No surprises then as we Irish appear to love a s*it like many of our own politicians and a former Taoiseach or two. So then I guess as Blair fits right into the s*it category then he fits the bill of the esteemed in Ireland.:rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So who has read the book? Worth the money or should I go down the Library waiting list route?

Have not read it and probably won't. Most of the reviews I have seen has said it is light on political insights so if anything, this is a library book or wait for it to go to the bargain bin section of most book shops

Jeboa Safari

Memnoch wrote: »

Fair point. I don't mind them selling the book. PROMOTING it however, seems to legitimise Blair's stance.

As per your example, I would certainly take issue with them inviting Hitler over to sign copies of his book for his fans. But then, Western Corporations had little qualms about profiting from Hitler's regime so I guess it isn't really surprising.

It mightn't be right, but it would be fairly cool to meet Hitler

Anyway, you can't compare Tony Blair to Hitler, Hitler did much worse for worse reasons

Denerick

Mr.Micro wrote: »

After reading through the posts on this thread I note that many support Blair. No surprises then as we Irish appear to love a s*it like many of our own politicians and a former Taoiseach or two. So then I guess as Blair fits right into the s*it category then he fits the bill of the esteemed in Ireland.:rolleyes:

Why do you equate condeming mob violence with support of Blair?

I have no love for the man. I think he has a lot of blood on his hands and that the invasion of Iraq was an utter disgrace. I just think he should be able to attend a book signing in Dublin without being the victim of mob violence. A lot of people don't seem to grasp that you don't have to believe in something in order to tolerate it.

caseyann

Personally not a fan of any politician,in blairs case,more right then wrong he did.I was quite sickened and any person who was apart of throwing shoes and eggs at him should be ashamed of themselves it is disgraceful.
And that girl they show tried to make citizen arrest(give me strength) :rolleyes:

Kate O'Sullivan, who attempted to make a citizen's arrest on Mr Blair, said: "Immediately five security people grabbed me, started dragging me off.
Poor you seriously go home and get a life :mad:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/tony-blair/7981878/Shoes-and-eggs-thrown-at-Tony-Blair-as-he-attends-book-signing.html

Making a show of Ireland :mad:

Memnoch

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

It mightn't be right, but it would be fairly cool to meet Hitler

Anyway, you can't compare Tony Blair to Hitler, Hitler did much worse for worse reasons

Hitler lost the war and killed himself.

Tony Blair invaded people without the capacity to fight back or hold him to account for his criminality.

As for reasons. Modern tyrants have learnt to present themselves as Statesmen. The fact that Western Political leaders are immune from international justice does not obfuscate the obvious truth of their actions for me.

Jeboa Safari

caseyann wrote: »

Personally not a fan of any politician,in blairs case,more right then wrong he did.I was quite sickened and any person who was apart of throwing shoes and eggs at him should be ashamed of themselves it is disgraceful.
And that girl show tried to make citizen arrest(give me strength) :rolleyes:

Kate O'Sullivan, who attempted to make a citizen's arrest on Mr Blair, said: "Immediately five security people grabbed me, started dragging me off.
Poor you seriously go home and get a life :mad:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/tony-blair/7981878/Shoes-and-eggs-thrown-at-Tony-Blair-as-he-attends-book-signing.html

Making a show of Ireland :mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz0YMMkNF8M
:mad:

Jeboa Safari

Memnoch wrote: »

Hitler lost the war and killed himself.

Tony Blair invaded people without the capacity to fight back or hold him to account for his criminality.

As for reasons. Modern tyrants have learnt to present themselves as Statesmen. The fact that Western Political leaders are immune from international justice does not obfuscate the obvious truth of their actions for me.

Regardless of whether he won the war or not, Tony Blair is definitely not on par or anywhere near Hitler in terms of what war crimes you think he committed.

caseyann

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz0YMMkNF8M
:mad:

God listening to her gives me a headache.It is all a game to her :mad:

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

Making a show of Ireland

How? Its not actually an Irish idea for starters. George Monbiot came up with it.
http://www.arrestblair.org/

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

How? Its not actually an Irish idea for starters. George Monbiot came up with it.
http://www.arrestblair.org/

Doesnt matter,he was here for a book signing.And they followed the crowd and threw stuff at him.Showing themselves for thugs and uneducated.Doesnt matter whos idea it was.
Was he there?

A Dub in Glasgo

caseyann wrote: »

Was he there?

Yeah, Blair was in Easons

caseyann

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yeah, Blair was in Easons

I hope that was a half attempt at humour

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

Doesnt matter,he was here for a book signing.And they followed the crowd and threw stuff at him.Showing themselves for thugs and uneducated.

The young woman qued up in an orderly fashion, went into Easons, and when her turn came, tried to make a citizens arrest....I'm not sure what you're on about there.

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

The young woman qued up in an orderly fashion, went into Easons, and when her turn came, tried to make a citizens arrest....I'm not sure what you're on about there.

I am talking about the shoes and eggs throwing.She is an idiot and that is all

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

I am talking about the shoes and eggs throwing.

Then why include it in a reply to a post about the attempted citizens arrest?

caseyann wrote: »

She is an idiot and that is all

Really? She seemed quite articulate to me. I'd imagine she could also express herself well via the written word.

Liam Byrne

Memnoch wrote: »

Henceforth, I will endeavour to avoid shopping at Easons for the forseeable future. It might be pitiful and pointless but I guess it's that or nothing.

I'm already doing that after they had Ahern & his work of fiction there!

How can I protest ?

The Sparrow

I've read this whole thread and it is definitely lively.

I've always quite liked Blair and I wasn't against the invasion of Iraq but with hindsight I wonder if there was a better way to approach deposing Saddam. However, that is definitely with hindsight and unfortunately a head of state doesn't have that luxury.

What is really interesting to me is that Blair has been vilified as a war criminal for that one action and the rest of his accomplishments and mistakes have been forgotten. Fair enough that lot's of people were killed as part of the Iraqi invasion, but you could also make the case that under Tony Blair's leadership lot's of people were saved in places like Sierra Leone, Kosovo and even Northern Ireland.

My point here really is that a leader has to make decisions and some of those decisions will be right and inevitably some will be wrong. I don't necessarily agree that the Iraq invasion was wrong but I can certainly see the logic behind such an assertion. However, I tend to take a broader view and look at Blair's ten year term of office and I think that the good that was done at least equals the bad and perhaps surpasses it.

And I think that is all you can ask from someone who has been given the huge responsibility of power.

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

Then why include it in a reply to a post about the attempted citizens arrest?



Really? She seemed quite articulate to me. I'd imagine she could also express herself well via the written word.

It is called a space and not in relation to her was overall.

Did she good for you,get together.Her interview was childish and immature attitude.She acted like she was a kid laughing about it.Nothing serious in her attitude at all.

Byron85

Nodin wrote: »

Then why include it in a reply to a post about the attempted citizens arrest?



Really? She seemed quite articulate to me. I'd imagine she could also express herself well via the written word.

I know her. The supposed idiot has a Masters from UCC and is head of a theatre company. She's a very down to earth, normal and decent person who felt like and does feel like she had to do something. You can question her actions if you will but calling a genuinely good and decent person names is unfair.

Nodin

Byron85 wrote: »

I know her. The supposed idiot has a Masters from UCC and is head of a theatre company. She's a very down to earth, normal and decent person who felt like and does feel like she had to do something. You can question her actions if you will but calling a genuinely good and decent person names is unfair.

emmmmm...twasn't me calling the names......Didn't know "quite articulate" meant something negative....

caseyann

Byron85 wrote: »

I know her. The supposed idiot has a Masters from UCC and is head of a theatre company. She's a very down to earth, normal and decent person who felt like and does feel like she had to do something. You can question her actions if you will but calling a genuinely good and decent person names is unfair.

You can be an idiot in sense of personality wise even with a masters degree doesn't make her any nicer a person or any more right as a person.Her interview proved that,and down right ignorance approaching someone under false pretenses and attempting a citizen arrest,does not show a level of maturity or of intelligence in any shape or form.
Like she has any authority
And these people should be standing up for their own country and protesting our government right
now.
I notice that alot about here,always worrying about other countries problems but sit on the fence for their own lol

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

It is called a space and not in relation to her was overall..

Yes....I'm sure.....

caseyann wrote: »

Did she good for you,get together.Her interview was childish and immature attitude.She acted like she was a kid laughing about it.Nothing serious in her attitude at all.

Dear me. You don't seem to understand the point of attempting the citizens arrest at all.

Byron85

Nodin wrote: »

emmmmm...twasn't me calling the names......Didn't know "quite articulate" meant something negative....

Woops! Meant to quote the other person. Forgiveness please!

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

Yes....I'm sure.....



Dear me. You don't seem to understand the point of attempting the citizens arrest at all.

Dear you: Your usual stuff isnt it.
What to try feel superior and be condescending to someone who has done and supported alot of great things in his political career? Yes i see her point.Way to go her :pac: Not.

Brussels Sprout

caseyann wrote: »

down right ignorance

Perhaps you should hold off on playing the ignorance card until you've learned some basic grammar and punctuation yourself.

fontanalis

Weren't some of the protestors form the 32 county sovereinty committee? If only they cared as much about Belfast than Baghdad.