A 2.30 Marathon

TRR

myflipflops wrote: »

Yeah, I'm doing Melbourne on October 14th. I have a half marathon picked for a prep race on September 2nd too with a view to running about 1.25.

I know the long runs need to go up, it's the only thing playing on my mind. I have struggled to get them in so far, mainly because hauling this weight around for a long time is a horrible thought! I will look for 1hr 45 mins this week and then hopefully 2 hours or more after that. I may need to find some company to make it easier.

I hear you regards the long run and weight. The great thing about them is that they really help shed the pounds. The important thing is to eat normally after you complete them. Don't into the habit of eating for Ireland/Australia afterward. Also slow them down and run on grass if possible.

Regards company, do you listen to music while running. i don't normally but sometimes do when going long. Music and sometimes a good podcast or two. I'm not a fan or running solo. I don't think it's good to be left to your own devices for over 2 hours. It's half the reason I think runners are mad. They spend too much time with their inner thoughts/voices

myflipflops

TRR wrote: »

Regards company, do you listen to music while running. i don't normally but sometimes do when going long. Music and sometimes a good podcast or two. I'm not a fan or running solo. I don't think it's good to be left to your own devices for over 2 hours. It's half the reason I think runners are mad. They spend too much time with their inner thoughts/voices

I usually have my I-shuffle with me unless I am doing something a bit quicker. The problem is that I tend to zone out and get into a rythm with music in and end up running quicker than planned. That is fine for my mid week runs but not good when trying to get the longer one in. Ideally, I would find someone to do the first hour or so with me and keep my pace down and then I could go on on my own.

There are a couple of groups around that I could join in with on long runs but they all seem to run too slowly. I just don't see the point in 8.00-8.30 miles. I am going to join a club here so hopefully I find some guys I can run with.

RayCun

myflipflops wrote: »

I usually have my I-shuffle with me unless I am doing something a bit quicker. The problem is that I tend to zone out and get into a rythm with music in and end up running quicker than planned.

A podcast is handy for that. If you're listening to voices talking rather than music, there isn't a strong rhythm to fall in step with.

myflipflops

RayCun wrote: »

A podcast is handy for that. If you're listening to voices talking rather than music, there isn't a strong rhythm to fall in step with.

You are not the first person to recommend Podcasts to me for exercise. I must get some downloaded and try it. I had a load of stuff on my old I-Pod but I lost that in one country or another.

TRR

Yes music can definitely make you up the tempo unintentionally. I usually have 20 songs on my shuffle. 10 up tempo and 10 down tempo. That seems to help. Well judging by my spilts it does anyway.

myflipflops

TRR wrote: »

Yes music can definitely make you up the tempo unintentionally. I usually have 20 songs on my shuffle. 10 up tempo and 10 down tempo. That seems to help. Well judging by my spilts it does anyway.

On the topic, have you had music in any of your marathons? It is one of the small things I am thinking about. I am leaning towards not wearing the shuffle for a couple of reasons. I also need to start thinking about what I will eat/drink. I am a bit of an old school runner so am considering testing out just water and some jelly babies!

TRR

myflipflops wrote: »

On the topic, have you had music in any of your marathons? It is one of the small things I am thinking about. I am leaning towards not wearing the shuffle for a couple of reasons. I also need to start thinking about what I will eat/drink. I am a bit of an old school runner so am considering testing out just water and some jelly babies!

Kind of ashamed to admit it but yes I've worn headphones in a couple of marathons, not for the entire run but for certain sections where I needed to up the tempo or keep it calm.

First wore headphones in London 3 years ago. Had an hour of downbeat music to start with so I wouldn't shoot my load in the first 10 miles. I was carrying an injury, missed 4 weeks training and knew if I could get the first hour or so out of the way without doing anything stupid I would be OK. Worked well and threw the headphones to the Mrs before upping the tempo myself.

Last year in Berlin was kind of the opposite. Stuck the headphones on at mile 18 just before I upped the tempo and brought it home. Had Republica's "ready to go" teed up and was like putting a jet under my arse. Took them off again with 2 miles to go to take in the noise of the crowd etc.

On the jellys and water front, don't waste your time. Get the gels in. Experiment in training. Only started taking gels last year, was a man after your own heart but believe me the gels are the business. I take them with water and would normally sports drink on course.

RayCun

I've worn headphones in a couple of marathons

***closes tRR's account***

TRR

RayCun wrote: »

***closes tRR's account***

If it makes you feel any better they were all under 3 hours, 1 even under 2.40. As an aside I generally only have one earphone in so car hear what's going on around me for safety reasons. Ran with my earphones today as well

RayCun

TRR wrote: »

If it makes you feel any better they were all under 3 hours, 1 even under 2.40.

That's just rubbing it in

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

That's just rubbing it in

So thats where i am going wrong. I need headphones in the marathon to get a sub 3 time!!!

TRR

average_runner wrote: »

So thats where i am going wrong. I need headphones in the marathon to get a sub 3 time!!!

You'll look at feel like a punter but something with a good drum beat could make all the difference

myflipflops

Not a great few weeks.

The Olympics played havoc with my training with 10-12 days of working straight through the night. 12 hour working 'days' along with a ruined sleep pattern and a large amount of stress. I never thought in my life I would be happy to see an Olympic Games end but I certainly was this time. I got out the door for a run more often than not but there was nothing worthwhile logged so it was a significant setback to the marathon plan. Will start with the most recent bit of decent work.

Thurs 16th
I am going to join a club to help motivation so I popped up and did their group session. 6x1200 on flat trials with a 3(!) minute recovery. Averaged about 4.12 per rep with quickest a 4.05 and slowest a 4.20 (there was wind involved on an up and back route). I felt OK through it considering this is probably the quickest work I have done in 8/9 years. I did not go all out after the previous week or 2 of relative inactivity.

The group is of very mixed ability ranging from a 15.20 5k guy out front on his own through to some 35 minute 10k guys down to complete novices. It is probably good for me in that I can pop up every 2 weeks to train with them and measure my progress against the 35 minute 10k guys.

The coach is a lovely bloke and was really welcoming. He is a near perfect guy to encourage first timers to an athletics club. He is kind of kidding himself with the recovery times though.

Fri 17th
AM: 30 mins
PM: 45 mins


I am back to logging the miles. I still believe a sub 3 marathon is on the cards despite the last week or 2 but the half marathon I am running on September 2nd will tell a lot.

On the positive side, my weight has gone under 14 stone so it is slowly moving in the right direction. I am now officially not an overweight person. I have lost 4.5 - 5 stone in exactly 6 months through hard work. It shows that the vast majority of the billion dollar weight loss industry is a waste of money.

TRR

This forum has been accused of too much back slapping in the past so I apologise to those accusers an advance

Savage weight loss, you are right, it's amazing what a bit of hard work exercise and diet wise can do. Another 8-14lbs should drop by marathon day by my rough reckoning and you will be heading into 2013 with a realistic chance of getting close to your "real" racing weight.

I wouldn't worry about the couple of crap weeks. Two positives. Firstly you still managed to get out for some sort of runs. Basically you kept ticking over. I remember reading a couple of studies before regards the minimum amount of exercise required by runners over a 2-4 week period to ensure they didn't loose fitness (was looking at injured athletes) and it is not a lot, a couple of 30 minute runs and a small interval session was recommend. You may not have done the intervals but I'm guessing you did more than enough aerobic stuff so don't see it as a set back in your marathon plan. At worst you stayed at the same level. The mental side of running when you're up to your tits in work is a positive as well. Character building secondly you still lost weight during the Olympic period. Shows that you stayed disciplined with the diet and obviously the bit of exercise you did had a positive effect, see point 1

You do right to join a club, even if you feel the recoveries are too long it is a great way to judge your progress as you say. Also if you feel the recoveries are too long just go a little balls out. Not exactly normal marathon training (usually a lot of slower reps with short recovery) but any shock to your system at the moment will have a positive impact IMO.

Good luck

myflipflops

TRR wrote: »

This forum has been accused of too much back slapping in the past so I apologise to those accusers an advance

No back slapping allowed for the weight loss. I should never have been in a place where I had 5-6 stone to lose. 6 months of good work does not make up for 6 years of acting the pr*ck. It has been interesting as an exercise in how simple it is to lose weight though. Maybe I should try and market my incredibly complicated plan!

myflipflops

Sat 18th
60 mins including 2x2 mile at 6 min/mile pace. Not really sure what I was trying here but this is what I ended up with. This fits in with the attitude that any day I get out for a run is a good day.

Mon 20th
Unscheduled day off Sunday. Went for a snooze at 3pm and woke up at 6am on Monday!

1hr 55m long run. Finally got a proper long run in. This averaged at around 7.00-7.10 per mile. I did 30 minutes and then met a group of good runners on their easy day and did an hour with them. Pace with the group started at 7 min pace and dropped to 6.40-6.50 pace for most of the hour (there were Garmins involved). I was very comfortable at the pace so aerobically I am in OK shape but to mimic TRR, I was pretty punch drunk after the run.

Tues 21st

30 mins, lots of stretching

Hmmmm. Right knee is stiff and sore today. Pain in the patella and a strange muscle ache on the back of my knee up where it meets the hamstring. I will probably get it checked out, injury is the nightmare scenario for me. Annoying after a pretty encouraging long run the day before.

myflipflops

Got my knee checked today by a highly recommended physio/therapist. Consensus is that it is a load bearing issue caused by my incredibly poor core stability through my hips and glutes. Nothing chronic but something I need to work out a physio plan for. He also did some dry needling and incredibly painful therapy with his elbows. I had forgotten how much they can hurt you!

The marathon is not scrapped (he was confident I could compete if i listen to advice) but I have to cut down on my mileage and it may make it too big a stretch. Melbourne was just a step along the road to proper fitness.

The ironic thing is that I took a few days off to give my knee a rest and when I went out the next time, I felt terrific. It was a mini taper that indicated I am in decent shape aerobically. It's very frustrating. I did about 10/11 miles at a good tick today and I was perfectly comfortable

Long term goals take precedence though. I will take a few days to decide but I may scrap this log and these goals and work something else out.

myflipflops

Saturday 29th
60 mins with 6 mile progression tempo run in the middle. Felt pretty comfortable throughout.

1: 6.30
2: 6.30
3: 6.15
4: 6.10
5: 5.55
6: 5.45

Strange month. This run is the first thing worth posting.

I had to pretty much stop running for the first couple of weeks this month to sort my body out. I took the break and drank plenty of beers and consumed lots of crap food.

I started back timidly last Monday (17th) and (so far) I am running pain free. The longest run has been 70 minutes so far. With the physio exercises and weekly deep tissue massage pummeling, I am actually running taller and lighter than I have since I was a junior so here's hoping.

After humming and hawing, I have decided to do the marathon on the 14th. I have paid $125 for the privilege so I may as well toe the line. I don't care about a sub 3 at this point as I have missed too much training.

I have a 2 hour run at no slower than 7 min/mile planned tomorrow which will tell me a lot.

myflipflops

Monday 1st
1hr 55. Average pace 6.40 min/mile approx.

Only did a few miles yesterday. This run was a tester to see what I might expect in 2 weeks time. Injury meant i missed most of my long runs so I did not know what to expect.

I'm having an educated guess at the average pace but I know for definite that there was at least 7 miles at 6.30 pace in the middle as I was ran a few laps around a measured loop with a clock for reference.

Legs were tired at the end but this was encouraging. I will probably go off with the 3 hour pacing group in the marathon if I pull up well from this run and get another decent week in.

As an aside, I took my first ever gel after 90 minutes today. It was purely a test of the practicalities of carrying and then consuming a gel and drinking water while on the move. It was not very pleasant. I imagine drinking Coors Lite is worse though.

TRR

myflipflops wrote: »

As an aside, I took my first ever gel after 90 minutes today. It was purely a test of the practicalities of carrying and then consuming a gel and drinking water while on the move. It was not very pleasant. I imagine drinking Coors Lite is worse though.

Ha ha, you need to get a gel that tastes of coors light

myflipflops

Tuesday 2nd
60 mins odd with 6 miles at 6.40's in the middle

Wednesday
70 mins @ 6.45s

I don't really know what happened. It may be the break refreshing me or the deep tissue massage guy opening me up (I reckon the latter) but I am just moving very, very comfortably at 6.30-6.45 pace. Aerobically I am fine and I am recovering easily.

100% going at sub 3. Absolutely no reason not too. I have missed long runs and will be enterring the unknown at about 19 miles but 6.50 miles should feel like jogging.

I have also somehow managed to get my hands on a preferred start bib so I will not have to deal with any crowding issues at the start. My main worry is the 7am start. I do pretty much none of my proper running in the early morning so I hope the body accepts it.

TRR

Super stuff, definitely go for the sub 3. Worst case scenario you blow up and have a difficult last few miles. As you've said, you've nothing really to lose. If things do go tits up I always think past race experience and an ability to hurt come to the fore, you have that in spades so you'll be fine.

What the plan for the next week and a half? If I were you I'd still get a 12 mile run in this weekend.

myflipflops

TRR wrote: »

What the plan for the next week and a half? If I were you I'd still get a 12 mile run in this weekend.

I will potter about and run how I feel for the next couple of days and then do 12-15 miles on Sunday morning at whatever pace feels comfortable. Attitude is that the marathon is simply a stupidly long training run so a 5 day 'taper' will be fine. I have the advantage of being able to head out and run chunks of the marathon route too.

One aim in the next week and a half is to get up increasingly early and get out for runs to get some practice in. Race day will be a 4am start I think.

thirstywork2

You have the natural talent to run sub3 easy.Looking forward to reading your log more.

Krusty_Clown

That Monday run was a cracker. Definitely worth a pop at the sub-3. I could never have managed 17 miles at marathon pace when I first ran under the three hours. The fact that you can turn around and do some good miles the next day must be a very positive sign.

Did you try taking any more gels? Might be worth getting a few more into the system on the hoof, just to get used to them before race day. Is there anyone along the course that could hand you a sports drink?

myflipflops

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Did you try taking any more gels? Might be worth getting a few more into the system on the hoof, just to get used to them before race day. Is there anyone along the course that could hand you a sports drink?

I will take some more gels. Certainly on Sunday I will take one maybe 30 minutes into the run just to see how it settles in my stomach over the next hour of running.

You can hand in personal drinks at the marathon expo and they will place them at specific points on the cours (9km, 18km and 27km i think) so I will carry one gel and tape others to a drink left at 18km and 27km. I won't come close to using it all but I may as well leave myself options. I may plant someone on course too just in case.

Whatever I consume, it will be a trial and error affair that I should learn plenty from.

thirstywork2 wrote: »

You have the natural talent to run sub3 easy.Looking forward to reading your log more.

Cheers. I thik I have a fair shot on Sunday week. Don't think talent has anything to do with it right now though. It has been a lot of work and a long old slog since early February. I will never forget my first 'run' back for as long as I live.

myflipflops

Thurs 4th
45-50 mins trot (cannot remember exactly)

Sat 6th
75 mins in total. 7:00-7:10 pace

Sun 7th
2:05 hours, about 18 miles. Had meant to run 12-15 miles but got the loops mixed up with the group and ended up out longer than planned. It was too long really but no harm done. The legs were pretty tired when i finished but was able to get out and play 18 holes of golf this afternoon so nothing too bad.

I got up at 6am this morning to have breakfast and went out running at 8am to minic the marathon situation for next week. No issue with the morning run which was a relief. Took a gel without stomach issues too.

This week has been a good, tough one with lots of miles and I am set for a week of easy jogging before next Sunday. Ideally I would have wanted to do 3 weeks like this back during the time I was injured but that did not happen. All in all though, I appear to be in sub 3 hour shape and there will be no excuses if I fail to do it.

myflipflops

Going to put up a list of answers by my desk to stop the following conversation happening 50 times this week:


Are you doing the marathon this weekend? Yes

The FULL marathon? Yes, there is no other kind of marathon

Not the 10km? No, that's not a marathon. It is a 10km race

How long is a marathon? 26.2 miles

What is that in km? 42.2km

What's that in laps of a track/The Tan/Carlton Gardens/my backyard? F*ck off.

What time will you do? Hopefully under 3 hours

Is that fast? Not really, it is OK

How fast is it exactly? About 6.50 per mile

How fast in that in km? About 4.15 per km

How fast is that in laps of my couch? F*ck off

My mate said he did a 10km run in 21 minutes last Saturday. Is he good? He is either the greatest distance runner in history or a liar.

Maybe i heard him wrong, maybe it was 25 minutes.... He would still be the greatest distance runner in history

I find running very boring though. How do you do it? I find your wife ugly as sin. Same question to you


Last question and answer is closer to the actual interaction than you might believe.

Pisco Sour

Great post.

Best of luck on Sunday. Was considering heading into town or the MCG to watch, but it's on sinfully early.

myflipflops

Tues 9th
60 mins with 4 miles @ 6.35 pace. Was advised to take Monday off. Met the club before their track session and warmed up with them before 4 mile trot and then some 'straights and bends' strides.

Wed 10th
60 mins steady. Maybe 6.50-7.00 miles.

Fri 12th
Nothing yesterday and 30 mins today with 2 miles at around marathon pace.

Feeling pretty good. Will jog a couple of miles tomorrow but otherwise I think I am set.

Aims for Sunday in order:

1: Enjoy it
2: Run sub 3

Have my own pacing plan and don't intend to actively join any pacing groups unless it suits my cadence. Attitude is that this is just a long Sunday training run.