A 2.30 Marathon

myflipflops

Thurs 15th
11 miles @ 6.46/mile

Sun 17th
14.5 miles including 11.79 miles @ 6.10/mile.
Friday was an allowed rest day but I let life get in the way of running on Saturday which is bad. Decided I would do something long at a decent clip on Sunday and was going well until I tripped over a small fence and took a bad tumble. Cuts and bruises on hands, arm and knee so I just finished off the run at an easier pace.

Mon 18th
8.86 miles @ 6.29. Stupid speed for a relaxed day. Done at midday out in 21 degree heat too.

Tues 19th
About 10 miles steady. Feeling tired and beat up from the fall so abandoned plans for a session, binned the Garmin and went running steady with the housemate. Very hot again today. Need to start factoring in the heat effect.

Krusty_Clown

myflipflops wrote: »

Thurs 15th
Sun 17th
14.5 miles including 11.79 miles @ 6.10/mile.

Handy little 1:21:xx half marathon in training for you there. Your progress is astounding. It's almost a shame that you're hitting hot season, though a week or two of easy running could possibly do you some good. Any races on the horizon? Would love to see how you'd fare in a 10k now (assuming the heat wouldn't kill any opportunity to run a decent time).

myflipflops

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Handy little 1:21:xx half marathon in training for you there. Your progress is astounding. It's almost a shame that you're hitting hot season, though a week or two of easy running could possibly do you some good. Any races on the horizon? Would love to see how you'd fare in a 10k now (assuming the heat wouldn't kill any opportunity to run a decent time).

Running a 10k on December 5th. Looks a flat enough course. No real time goal in it but it is a small race with no prize money and was won in 34.xx the last couple of years so the plan is to be competitive. If it is 27/28/29 degrees that day, times become irrelevant. Will see how I go there and then decide on a longer term plan and goal.

The heat makes training tough but it helps to burn the calories.

DogSlySmile

Sorry to drag this up again but I'm just getting around to reading your log now.... Fuppin hell man!!!! How did you turn a 19.23 5k back in may into a 2:48 marathon!???? And looking at your training after the marathon you seem to be progressing at a fantastic rate! Two questions though: 1, what drugs are you taking? and 2, can I have some!!???:D

myflipflops

DogSlySmile wrote: »

How did you turn a 19.23 5k back in may into a 2:48 marathon?

Following this advice:

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Keep the diet clean and get out the door most days for a run

DogSlySmile

Well I wasnt expecting a detailed step-by-step guide of how you progressed but I was looking for a bit more info than that! :P

Obviously 99% of people wont run a 2:48 marathon by eating healthy and getting out every day, what do you think set you apart?

EDIT: reading over your log in more detail just now, its pretty clear that there is no magic 'flipflop' formula, just hard work and dedication. More power to you bud, keep it up.

shels4ever

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Well I wasnt expecting a detailed step-by-step guide of how you progressed but I was looking for a bit more info than that! :P

Obviously 99% of people wont run a 2:48 marathon by eating healthy and getting out every day, what do you think set you apart?

EDIT: reading over your log in more detail just now, its pretty clear that there is no magic 'flipflop' formula, just hard work and dedication. More power to you bud, keep it up.

Running sometimes is a simple sport we just over think it My training is all based on that advise now too , but you wont see me running a 2:48 marathon.

myflipflops

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Well I wasnt expecting a detailed step-by-step guide of how you progressed but I was looking for a bit more info than that! :P

Obviously 99% of people wont run a 2:48 marathon by eating healthy and getting out every day, what do you think set you apart?

EDIT: reading over your log in more detail just now, its pretty clear that there is no magic 'flipflop' formula, just hard work and dedication. More power to you bud, keep it up.

Sorry, I was not trying to be flippant or brush off the question. I genuinely believe that is the best piece of single advice contained in this log. I am just a firm believer that it is a simple sport, especially in the beginner and improver stage. Get out most days and get good running in and you will get faster very quickly. Way too much bullsh*t bandied around about running these days trying to make it needlessly complicated.

If I was to pick out things that I might do a bit differently than most people around here I would say:

1 - I seem to run my miles at a relatively quicker pace compared to fitness than most others. I believe in recovery runs but only when you have something to recover from. Right now, I will pretty much never run at anything slower than 7.05-7.10 pace and not many miles at that pace. Most of my running is pretty steady. I would be of the opinion that most people need to run a bit quicker during their weekly mileage.

2 - Shorter sessions are for fit people. I have attempted about half a dozen sessions at the most in the last 9 months with nothing less than 1k reps. I will begin to add them to my training more regularly now but I am still in a base building (and fat burning!) stage. I really believe if you are a 4 hour marathoner trying to get to 3.30, a good steady 10-12 miler is more beneficial than a session. It feels good to run fast over reps but your mileage is your key. I reckon that I could get down to 2.37 or so (6 minute miles) without running a session shorter than a 6 mile tempo run.

In truth, if someone was looking to learn from a legitimate example of rapid improvement then I would look at what Claralara has been doing to take 50 minutes off her marathon PB.

TRR

In fairness and I'm taking nothing away from myflipflops but he has more obvious natural ability than the majority of people who post in this forum. With the right training, weight loss and lifestyle going from a 19 minute 5k to 2.48 marathon in literally months wouldn't be as hard for him as some other people.

In reality he is only scratching at the surface of his talent and in 24 months with injury free consistent training could probably be very competitive nationally at distances from 5k to marathon. Now the flip side of that, is natural ability will only get you so far if it's nurtured. Have a look at the picture of him sitting at the bar a couple of pages back. Even Usain Bolt with all the natural ability in the world would do sweet FA with that sort of lifestyle. MFF ran very competitively as a junior which provides a great base for adulthood IMO and is blessed that he seems to have retained his ability to run fast, even though he, by his own admission, was way over weight in recent times. I know lots and lots of guys who weren't so lucky and even though they dropped the weight became plodders realitive to where they were at. A couple of years back before moving to Australia, I pm'd MFF and I remember his response basically saying he just wanted to get back to jogging. I don't know if he remembers that and I'd love to still have the message but I remember thinking that he was finished with running forever in reality, the tone was one of regret if I'm honest.

I have to admit though that I was seriously shocked at the time he ran a couple of months back. I thought sub 3 was best case scenario but probably. 3.05-3.08. Anyway moral of the story is it's not always relevant to compare your progress to others, some will progress faster, others slower. Find out what works for you and repeat, find out your weaknesses and eradicate. It's as easy as that.

Anyway don't want to be giving the DSD tosser a big head so follow my log instead as I'll guarantee I'll whooooooooop his ass in the boards.ie trilogy in April*

*I just know this tough talk will come back to haunt me in 5-6 months time.

rom

I need to stop ranting really but in summary natural ability is no good without drive and determination as the first picture above shows.

"*I just know this tough talk will come back to haunt me in 5-6 months time." I bet it will

Krusty_Clown

I disagree with you rom. I don't believe that myflipflops has trained very hard in relation to his potential, yet. He has taken a well-structured developmental approach and has built-up his fitness and return to fast running over the last 8 months, without the need for extreme sessions. But in his own words, most of his training has been easy/steady running. Rom, if it is just about commitment, why don't you go out and run all of your training runs at 6:30/mile (which is approximately what myflipflops is averaging these days)? You have run a lot more than he has, over the last 2-3 years, so it should be no problem, right?

In my view, the real answer lies in the fact that we are all different. What works for myflipflops will not necessarily work for me. I ran a very comfortable marathon last May in 2:46 and it was a breeze. But if I did all of my training runs at the paces that myflipflops does his, I would shatter into tiny pieces. myflipflops can run most of his runs these days at 6:10 - 6:40/mile, because compared to his potential, I'm guessing that these runs are relatively comfortable for him. Incidentally, I have a tempo run scheduled for today/tomorrow, which will be 40 mins at around 6:06/mile. It's going to be tough, but I will be there, or thereabouts. At myflipflops current level (ref: Sun 17th), that tempo run would be a piece of p1ss.

I'm not trying to belittle the work that he has done to get himself to this point. Where he started from, the journey has been far more difficult than most of us had to face. What I am saying is that in relation to where myflipflops is going, the fast paces that he is running at now are part of base-building for him, but would be challenging sessions, for me.

myflipflops: I realize that it is a little disrespectful to write about you in the third-party in your own log, when clearly we have never met, and I cannot pretend to know anything of your abilities, hard-work and attitude, but based on the information provided over the course of the last 8-10 months, it does appear like you are only scratching at the surface at this stage and your achievements to date will pale in comparison to future achievements if you continue on your current path. No offense intended.

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I disagree with you rom.

No problem. We are each entitled to our opinions. I also believe that your reply was personal, negative and uncalled for. Please don't turn a debate into an argument.

Pisco Sour

rom wrote: »

No problem. We are each entitled to our opinions. I also believe that your reply was personal, negative and uncalled for. Please don't turn a debate into an argument.

I see nothing wrong with his comment. It's quite clear than MFF has a reasonable deal of natural talent and that he is only scratching the surface at the moment, and off a couple more years of hard, consistent training will look back at 2:48 as the start and nothing more.

rom

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with his comment. It's quite clear than MFF has a reasonable deal of natural talent and that he is only scratching the surface at the moment, and off a couple more years of hard, consistent training will look back at 2:48 as the start and nothing more.

It wasn't really the start as the time being a competitive runner when he was younger was a big positive (that most people don't have experience of) rather than a negative towards his recent improvement.

Krusty_Clown

rom wrote: »

No problem. We are each entitled to our opinions. I also believe that your reply was personal, negative and uncalled for. Please don't turn a debate into an argument.

I'm sorry rom, I don't understand how my post was personal, negative or uncalled for. Do you mean towards you, or myflipflops? If myflipflops takes offence to my comment (and I can't see why he would) then I'm out of order. If you take offence to my post, then that's just your interpretation, and I don't give a rat's arse.

TRR

@ Rom. You are either hypersensitive or you think MFF is hypersensitive. With regards to ignoring natural ability, you can, natural ability does nothing if not nurtured, similarly lack of natural ability can be overcome by working hard. MFF ran his first marathon quicker than my 6 th or 7th on a lot less mileage. I trained ny arse off, relative to me he did not. Drugs or a bit of natural ability are the obvious reason.

myflipflops

Excellent post from Krusty.

ROM, not sure why you deleted your original post but you should put it back up if you can.

TRR - you are old.

rom

TRR: I am not hypersensitive but "no you are wrong. This is the right answer (kind of answer)"ain't needed. I am not ignoring natural ability. I just am saying that he not starting from the same place as most people who lose weight that start running do as he was competitive when he was younger. He also knew a bit more about how to train than most of us starting off also.

myflipflops: twas a bit of a rant so I deleted it.

PS : Can't we all just get along

myflipflops

rom wrote: »

myflipflops: twas a bit of a rant so I deleted it.

I had a look when you first put it up and agreed with a chunk of what i saw. No more of a rant than half of what is written around here. The arguments against you make no sense without your counter argument.

rom

myflipflops wrote: »

I had a look when you first put it up and agreed with a chunk of what i saw. No more of a rant than half of what is written around here. The arguments against you make no sense without your counter argument.

Its not an argument, it's a rational debate

myflipflops

May as well log some training!

Wed 21st
Afternoon: 25 mins
Late Evening: 40 mins

Thurs 22nd
11 miles with 8 mile fartlek @ 6.08/mile.
Pretty unstructered 'session'. Had an idea to do a 4 mile tempo but ended up with some form of fartlek. Slowest mile (the 1st where i had to cross roads adn dodge traffic) was 6.46 and the quickest 5.40. Magic watch thing tells me there was an 18.10 5k and 37.40 10k somewhere in the middle.

Fri 23rd
60 mins easy

Temperature due to hit 30 both tomorrow and Sunday so tough weekend ahead.

myflipflops

Sat 24th
8.5 miles @ 6.37 pace.
This was HOT. Binned any thoughts of a session and just ticked around for 50 minutes. Even that was tough.

Sun 25th
16 miles (exactly!) at 6.35/mile.
Lovely run. Weather played ball for this and I had the pleasure of running with Lisa Weightman who ran 2.27 for 16th in the Olympic marathon.

Good mileage week. A few more of these would be great.

myflipflops

Mon 27th
9.11 miles @ 6.25/mile. I also ran in and out of work which is a bit under 4 miles round trip.

Tues 28th
AM: 4.65 miles @ 6.30/mile

PM: Session - 5 x 5 mins efforts with 90-120 seconds recovery. Delighted with this in this middle of a heavy mileage period. I did not have the Garmin on it but apparently they were 5.20 mile pace throughout give or take. Probably 10 miles covered between the warm up, session and cool down.

Wed 29th
AM: 6.20 miles @ 6.35/mile

PM: 9.03 miles @ 6.41

Training is getting more consistent and I am getting fitter. Looking forward to the 10km hit out next week.

thirstywork2

you are flying at the minute,keep it up !!
No pressure but imexpecting 33.30 for your 10k

myflipflops

thirstywork2 wrote: »

you are flying at the minute,keep it up !!
No pressure but imexpecting 33.30 for your 10k

Ah, that's probably a bit ambitious. I'm still struggling when I try to run fast. I reckon 34.15 would be good.

shels4ever

myflipflops wrote: »

Ah, that's probably a bit ambitious. I'm still struggling when I try to run fast. I reckon 34.15 would be good.

If you can stay injury free and keep going this way I think trr is going to take a major beating in your head to head. Hows the body holding up to the increased training this year, do you do much stretching or core work, or just pure old school running

rom

Why are people obsessed with cross training, core work, stretching, recovery drinks, rest days, etc. There is no substitute for hard work. If I want to get good a playing the piano I practice. "Old school" worked pretty well from them.

TRR

shels4ever wrote: »

If you can stay injury free and keep going this way I think trr is going to take a major beating in your head to head. Hows the body holding up to the increased training this year, do you do much stretching or core work, or just pure old school running

fcuk off shels, don't be encouraging him Seriously though you are going very well but don't be afraid to ease off over Christmas and let yourself go a bit How is the body holding up anyway?

rom wrote: »

Why are people obsessed with cross training, core work, stretching, recovery drinks, rest days, etc. There is no substitute for hard work. If I want to get good a playing the piano I practice. "Old school" worked pretty well from them.

True but things like core work, stretches and rest days can maximise your hard work. To use you analogy they allow you to play the piano with two hands instead of one! The recovery drinks are a pile of ****e though, pint of low fat milk is the way to go

rom

TRR wrote: »

fcuk off shels, don't be encouraging him Seriously though you are going very well but don't be afraid to ease off over Christmas and let yourself go a bit How is the body holding up anyway?

True but things like core work, stretches and rest days can maximise your hard work. To use you analogy they allow you to play the piano with two hands instead of one! The recovery drinks are a pile of ****e though, pint of low fat milk is the way to go

I am all for them when they are needed but they are like buzzwords for some people who are on very low pace and mileage. They call a day a recover/rest day when really they are having a day off which is fine too but if I go away to for a week holidays and don't run, it me being lazy and not "recovery" or "rest days" unless there is a serious need for it like after a marathon. I know people who do more core work than running. wtf is that about like, and no they ain't coming back from an injury.

What is wrong with full fat milk ? Didn't hurt the "old school" runners.

Not trying to be confrontational here but I just know this one guy that says I am going to take a recovery day tomorrow when he is just lazy. Pet hate. Called it a day off please if it is

TRR

rom wrote: »

What is wrong with full fat milk ? Didn't hurt the "old school" runners.

Nothing at all actually just I know parts of my diet have a little more fat compared to runners "back in the day" so low fat milk is one way I compensate for this.