Gender and Sexuality

LegacyUser

I'm posting anonymously but I have an account.

OK so, basically we all know or at least have some grasp on the differences between sexuality and gender. Physically I am female, I present androgynous and am bi-sexual. Having a "normal" hetro relationship is difficult because although I look feminine(no matter what I wear) I don't adapt to the social role when it comes to relationships. Especially in the bedroom :P I also don't associate with the social "butch" role in a homo relationship. So basically due to all of these roles in society I have come to a point in my life where I don't know what to do with myself. I can't pick up a date in a straight or gay bar despite the fact that my friends say I "have the best of both worlds being bi" IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE FOR ME?!

Anyone else feel this way or at least empathize with what I'm saying?

Sir Ophiuchus

First of all, the butch/femme dichotomy in lesbian relationships went out about fifty years ago. Not saying it doesn't still exist, but it's no longer the prevailing mode.

Second of all, there are plenty of straight guys nowadays who are quite happy to have a relationship that doesn't conform to traditional gendered social roles.

Maybe you're moving in the wrong circles? I know plenty of people who don't have "traditional" relationships from a gay or straight perspective.

dreamer_ire

Agree 100% with Sir O. Any relationship, esp a sexual one, needs to be defined by the two people involved.

It's strange you say you can't pick up a date because of your sexual "role". Are you sure you aren't prejuding what you think someone else may want sexually, or are you referring to follow up dates having had a sexual experience with someone. Remember if it's the latter it takes time to build a trusting sexual relatiosnhip where both people feel comfortable to explore "roles" they may not have experienced before.

LegacyUser

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

First of all, the butch/femme dichotomy in lesbian relationships went out about fifty years ago. Not saying it doesn't still exist, but it's no longer the prevailing mode.

Second of all, there are plenty of straight guys nowadays who are quite happy to have a relationship that doesn't conform to traditional gendered social roles.

Maybe you're moving in the wrong circles? I know plenty of people who don't have "traditional" relationships from a gay or straight perspective.

1. Can you tell that to any of the lesbians I've met because I don't think they got the memo! RE. The George.

2. I know what you're saying here, but I'm not just talking about socially. When you combine it with the sexual role 1+1 = a feminized male in search of a domme. Of course I'm only speaking from my own experience here.

3. I tend to be a drifter and meet lots of people. Maybe I'm just unlucky I don't know. I didn't word any of this right. I just know the gender/sexuality spectrum is vast and I don't really have a group to identify with. Unless I'm a lesbian/gay/bi-sexual/transexual all in one super package.


I guess what I'm saying is social groups(on the whole, as viewed by majority) are black and white, A or B, one or the other. And it makes a person feel as if they have to make a choice. Idk. Thanks for your reply. Confused as **** in Dublin, signing off.

Eebs

anonagain wrote: »

I guess what I'm saying is social groups(on the whole, as viewed by majority) are black and white, A or B, one or the other. And it makes a person feel as if they have to make a choice. Idk. Thanks for your reply. Confused as **** in Dublin, signing off.

Just try ignore them. Seriously, it doesn't get much easier but it can be a bit of fun.

I used to look really femme and act really butch. Now I look really butch and sometimes act really femme. Just enjoy your life and be who you are. Let people make their assumptions and have a twinkle in your eye about it.

People aren't what you think that are either. Maybe you're guilty of your own assumptions? I know the butchiest butches who are total pillow queens. I know the campiest of gay men who are raging tops. Sex doesn't have to be all about top and bottom, gender roles, it doesn't have to be about gender at all.

There are loads of people out there who feel a bit more fluid about things. You just need to have a look. I meet them everywhere from dancing classes to polyamory meet ups. Eventually they'll find you and.. failing that... I have some single friends!

Kanoe

I'm in a similar boat and considered myself asexual for years. When I was with men it felt wrong, like I was a guy with a guy. When I'm with a woman I feel much more feminine..and I'm not entirely comfortable feeling that way, like I miss my masculinity. It would be great if it were the other way around :pac: I'm female, I've always had a stong masculine persona but feminine in appearance (apparantly).
edit: as for groups, I don't feel I fall into any spefic category either, never really integrated into the gay scene and much more comfortable "wandering", as you put it. I don't have much of a problem meeting people I'm just rarely interested enough to bite.

p.s., my daughter feels the same way,she's identifies with her masculinity while being extremely feminine and is starting to explore it too

baby and crumble

anonagain wrote:

1. Can you tell that to any of the lesbians I've met because I don't think they got the memo! RE. The George.

The scene can be very black and white. I know I feel like I'm getting cruised when i walk into the George sometimes, and it's more often than not the more butch lesbians, doing, it's a very predatory masculine kinda vibe they give off... (just my opinion!) and it makes me a tad uncomfortable. But then the scene has always attracted the 'extremes', the really camp guys and the really butch girls... it's just the way it seems to work.

The mad thing is if you looked at me and my girlfriend, you would instantly put me as 'the butch one' and her as the 'femme' one, but truth is we're both mad girly, and even though i'm the butch one to see, i'm not allowed do diy, and my gf doesn't 'do' feelings or talking... truth is, nobody is anything they aren't.

And as for sex, i think people like what they like, and if it doesn't match your likes, well... i'd never manage a relationship with a rubber fetishist, because it does nothing for me, in fact i find it creepy. it's all just about experience and preferences. what is immediately 'apparent' may not be the case.

And yeah, some women still think that there has to be a butch one and a femme one in a relationship, like 2 'butches' can't be together, nor too 'femmes'. That's patently ridiculous.

I'm rambling. i still maintain you need to go to different places and group to find people you gel with... you say you're a 'drifter'- does that mean you flit from group to group a lot? maybe you're not giving yourself a chance to see what's under peoples appearances?

LegacyUser

Eebs wrote: »

Let people make their assumptions and have a twinkle in your eye about it.

People aren't what you think that are either. Maybe you're guilty of your own assumptions?

There are loads of people out there who feel a bit more fluid about things. You just need to have a look. Eventually they'll find you and.. failing that... I have some single friends!

Aww thank you. I guess I do make assumptions and maybe if I didn't I'd eventually meet someone who fit.

...any of your friends look like Freja Beha Erichsen?

LegacyUser

zxy wrote: »

I'm in a similar boat and considered myself asexual for years. When I was with men it felt wrong, like I was a guy with a guy. When I'm with a woman I feel much more feminine..and I'm not entirely comfortable feeling that way, like I miss my masculinity. It would be great if it were the other way around :pac: I'm female, I've always had a stong masculine persona but feminine in appearance (apparantly).
edit: as for groups, I don't feel I fall into any spefic category either, never really integrated into the gay scene and much more comfortable "wandering", as you put it. I don't have much of a problem meeting people I'm just rarely interested enough to bite.

p.s., my daughter feels the same way,she's identifies with her masculinity while being extremely feminine and is starting to explore it too

You've basically hit the nail on the head...that's me to a T! I fantasise sexually about being male but I'm not transgender, and was really confused about this. I must sound so naive, like I don't get out much...I do, I just never talk about these things. I guess I do "assume" that people will just find me odd. Maybe not fitting into a category *is* OK.

Thanks!

LegacyUser

zoegh wrote: »

The scene can be very black and white. I know I feel like I'm getting cruised when i walk into the George sometimes, and it's more often than not the more butch lesbians, doing, it's a very predatory masculine kinda vibe they give off... (just my opinion!) and it makes me a tad uncomfortable. But then the scene has always attracted the 'extremes', the really camp guys and the really butch girls... it's just the way it seems to work.

The mad thing is if you looked at me and my girlfriend, you would instantly put me as 'the butch one' and her as the 'femme' one, but truth is we're both mad girly, and even though i'm the butch one to see, i'm not allowed do diy, and my gf doesn't 'do' feelings or talking... truth is, nobody is anything they aren't.

And as for sex, i think people like what they like, and if it doesn't match your likes, well... i'd never manage a relationship with a rubber fetishist, because it does nothing for me, in fact i find it creepy. it's all just about experience and preferences. what is immediately 'apparent' may not be the case.

And yeah, some women still think that there has to be a butch one and a femme one in a relationship, like 2 'butches' can't be together, nor too 'femmes'. That's patently ridiculous.

I'm rambling. i still maintain you need to go to different places and group to find people you gel with... you say you're a 'drifter'- does that mean you flit from group to group a lot? maybe you're not giving yourself a chance to see what's under peoples appearances?

Yea I've had the same experiences RE the George. There are "straight" bars I avoid going to also simply because people there are leeches. Are there any gay rock bars or rock nights?

Stereotypes suck! But ironically I've just been feeling awkward that I didn't fit a stereotype. It's great to get some feedback here. I do flit from group to group, in that I have different sets of friends I hang out with and they're not all mutual. Also I make friends easily enough, I just tend not to talk about myself to a certain degree. Or I make jokes hoping that someone will say "HEY I GET IT". It seems from the advice I'm getting here the emphasis is on not being judgemental. It's not as if people know the way I think, so why should I assume to know what they think.

I just need to chill maybe. Or go on some fun dates and see what happens!

Cheers

rainbow kirby

anonwow wrote: »

Are there any gay rock bars or rock nights?

Rock Indie Pop is probably the closest thing you'll get. I'd absolutely love to see a gay metal night.

Eebs

anon_twinkle wrote: »

Aww thank you. I guess I do make assumptions and maybe if I didn't I'd eventually meet someone who fit.

...any of your friends look like Freja Beha Erichsen?

After a ham and cheese sandwich or two.

Eebs

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Rock Indie Pop is probably the closest thing you'll get. I'd absolutely love to see a gay metal night.

Sedition Industries isn't necessarily gay but it's pretty damn queer.
Deadly evenin too.

http://www.seditionindustries.com/

Way too much fun had at the last one.
If you're an arty type then check out Dr. Sketchy's too.

Links234

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I'd absolutely love to see a gay metal night.

Me too. think it would be possible to organize one?

stephen_n

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Rock Indie Pop is probably the closest thing you'll get. I'd absolutely love to see a gay metal night.

Not being sarky but why don't you start one? there are plenty of venues around town and although a live act may be a problem but certainly a dj wouldn't?

Kanoe

I could put out a call on some bands if someone could organise a venue
( or you could just go to picnic )

Kanoe

anonandro wrote: »

You've basically hit the nail on the head...that's me to a T! I fantasise sexually about being male but I'm not transgender, and was really confused about this. I must sound so naive, like I don't get out much...I do, I just never talk about these things. I guess I do "assume" that people will just find me odd. Maybe not fitting into a category *is* OK.

Thanks!

I don't think about being a bloke, I just think my brain thinks like one..
Although to be honest, it's more about how I feel. and no, I don't talk to people either but I'm happy enough going it this way

[btw, the trans thing is interesting.. as are your anononames ]

Jinxi

Can I ask what is meant by identifying with your masculine side. I have rarely met anyone that completly fit in a box stereotypically. Thats true for all people. Meeting someone your compatible with, sexually and platonically, is hard full stop.
I am a bi woman in a hetro relationship for years, plump, curvy and would never be described as looking masculine. I do all the DIY, am the one with the higher sex drive, hate having to get dressy, love beer and belching(both of us do). That isn't to say I have anyway the masculine role in the realtionship. We just etched out a relationship with both of our preferences finding a balance in everyday issues.
Its about how well you know yourself, what your willing to compromise on and what others find attractive in you. Its as unique as a fingerprint.

Kanoe

you sound like someone I know. She belches like a hippo, which is really disgusting btw. Coincidently, I'm much more passive than she is and she's definitely got a higher sex drive than me.
It's not about DIY or belching or drinking beer, it's more spiritual than that, like my inner voice is male if that makes sense and I'm not really happy until It's being expressed. I often thought I was T when I was a child.
I'll have to go think about the rest and get back to you but I agree with everything else you say, at the end of the day it comes down to the two people involved.

Jinxi

Its interesting to think about. My dad was the primary care giver in my house, I was the only girl in my class throughout primary school. I am still way more comfortable around men. My only female friend is an androgenous lesbian. Growing up I constantly wished I was a boy (until I realised how cool it was being the sexier sex:D). I still HATE the way girlies girls are. (might just be the feminist in me).
Still, I wouldn't refer to myself identifiying as masculine... just someone who enjoys rationality

Kanoe

Jinxi wrote: »

Still, I wouldn't call myself masculine... just not an idiot

would you care to elaborate?

Kanoe

thanks...

Jinxi

Ha ha... you caught that just before I edited it!!!
I do tend to think that alot of girlie girls put on being an airhead. I really love mens rationality, and I always found being in a long term relationship with the women I was with difficult, due to sulking/emotional swings/mind games, Trying to figure out what they REALLY ment behind their statements etc. Yet the ones I was attracted to sexually were these exact types. Led to some fantastic one nighters and v short termers tho:rolleyes:

Kanoe

so I had a think, which was nice. I'd love to be able to discuss the sexual content of the topic but I don't feel like I could go into specifics on a public forum. Needless to say I don't think its about being butch or femme and at the end of the day there is someone out there for you, it's just a matter of finding them. Best of luck annogirl.

L.Jenkins

stephen_n wrote: »

Not being sarky but why don't you start one? there are plenty of venues around town and although a live act may be a problem but certainly a dj wouldn't?

zxy wrote: »

I could put out a call on some bands if someone could organise a venue
( or you could just go to picnic )

If ye want a trans girl dj in boy mode, I can do some thing. If ye want bands I could probably get some too, but not of the LGBT community, but I could search. Sorry for going off topic :P

Kanoe

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

If ye want a trans girl dj in boy mode, I can do some thing. If ye want bands I could probably get some too, but not of the LGBT community, but I could search. Sorry for going off topic :P

sounds like a plan, although I'm no good at organising things and as I'm not in the smoke wouldn't be much good to anyone anyway. I could get some decent bands together here though, don't particularly care what they are either way it's all good.

LegacyUser

zxy wrote: »

you sound like someone I know. She belches like a hippo, which is really disgusting btw. Coincidently, I'm much more passive than she is and she's definitely got a higher sex drive than me.
It's not about DIY or belching or drinking beer, it's more spiritual than that, like my inner voice is male if that makes sense and I'm not really happy until It's being expressed. I often thought I was T when I was a child.
I'll have to go think about the rest and get back to you but I agree with everything else you say, at the end of the day it comes down to the two people involved.

I'll reply to this response because this is what I mean by identifying more as male (its like you can explain my thoughts/feelings BETTER than I can!) I don't believe in stereotypes which is kind of what I'm trying to get at in this thread. OK so I can drink copious amounts of alcohol, I watch/collect martial arts films and I enjoy boxing but those male/female stereotypes are bull**** because we now know these are things both sexes can do and enjoy. I also like flowers, fashion(mainly the models though :P) and taking care of children. Like zxy said; it's an "inner voice". When I was little I didn't know I was a girl and became very confused and awkward at the fact that I had female genitalia. Throughout adolescence the confusion remained. Sex for me was OK but didn't feel right, I fantasized about men and women but I was never the "receiver"...so I discovered sex toys :P However, I'm not Trans.

LegacyUser

zxy wrote: »

so I had a think, which was nice. I'd love to be able to discuss the sexual content of the topic but I don't feel like I could go into specifics on a public forum. Needless to say I don't think its about being butch or femme and at the end of the day there is someone out there for you, it's just a matter of finding them. Best of luck annogirl.

I also didn't want to delve into sex but felt I needed to at least suggest the "masculine" role as user Zinki(Binki?) had asked. Thanks for all your replies

LegacyUser

I'm definitely going to check out the venues/rock nights suggested, thanks
Also, 10+ points to whoever used the word "snarky". And I think organising a DJ night is a great idea. LGBT boards.ie night out \m/

L.Jenkins

Dj night sounds good. I'll get a set of decks if y'all want and bust out a few tunes for the night if ye want.

I see the issue of gender is still up in the air. Even though I'm trans, gender is the most confusing thing I've ever come across. Born a male and consider myself female. Still wrecking my head trying to describe gender and figure it all out.

Kanoe

Maybe I should invest in some playthings. For the time being I've opted for celibacy tho, think I'm so used to asexuality it's like I'm made for it. It's not that I'm not capable of loving someone, I just seem to be happy loving them and leaving it at that.