Britain has no divine right to bash Catholics

Winty

I found this article on the "This is London" website, its the online content of the "London Evening Standard" a free issue evening paper.

IMO the writer is a right wing - chip on her shoulder - how dare you critise the holy church nutter. but thats just what I think.

What do you think

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23872297-britain-has-no-divine-right-to-bash-catholics.do

“Pope-bashing is the true national sport,” a devout Roman Catholic once told me. “After all, the English have had nearly five centuries to perfect it.”
That 21st-century Britain is not so different from England in 1533 became apparent to me at university. During Freshers' Week, a Protestant gleefully announced that our “smells, bells and superstitions” guaranteed me fast-track entry to hell.
A few days later, an atheist declared us Catholics a group of “kiddy-fiddlers celebrating cannibalism”.
During the past year, the comments have inevitably grown far nastier. The Church's annus horribilis — largely of its own making, admittedly — has sparked a string of anti-papist tirades.
Catholicism's critics have only one focus now: the Pontiff's state visit to our country in just over two week's time. This should be a cause for celebration. Instead, if the anti-Catholic campaigners have their way, the trip will be marred by vuvuzelas, protesters and blocked streets.
Absurdly, Richard Dawkins even called for Benedict XVI to be arrested for “crimes against humanity” as he steps onto our soil. Dawkins sneerily described the Holy Father as a “leering old villain in a frock”, the Church he leads “a child-raping institution”. Which is odd: I thought individuals and not organisations rape people. The priestly perpetrators should be punished for their crimes, of course, but Dawkins glossed over the Pope's apology, in which the Pontiff wrote that he shared “the sense of betrayal” at “these sinful and criminal acts”.
I am pleased that my religion can take criticism, though. A couple of days ago, I was invited to join a protest on Facebook against the Pope's visit. The group's creators had doctored a photograph to make it look as though the Bishop of Rome was wearing Borat's lime mankini under his robes. I suspect that they would not repeat that trick with an Islamic prophet now.
The problem isn't the attacks against Catholicism, but their delivery and motivation. Dawkins and his ilk make no attempt to engage or debate: they simply seem to enjoy castigating and poking fun. When they criticise the views of the Church, it smacks of “liberal authoritarianism”: if you don't share their “enlightened” opinions, expect to be ridiculed, your beliefs swiftly dismissed.
Catholicism remains the easiest target for the anti-faith brigade. Our allegiance may be to Rome, but we are not considered so foreign that to attack us means you no longer qualify for membership of multicultural, modern Britain.
Moreover, this antipathy has state support: ours is the only religion discriminated against in the constitution. Were I to marry a royal, they must either renounce their right to the throne or I my religion. Moonies and Holocaust deniers are deemed acceptable mates for a head of state, but not we left-footers.
The extreme anti-Catholic sentiment is counter-productive too. Like many Roman Catholics in this country, I think that the Church needs to change, particularly following the abuse scandals. But the issue is with the institution, not our faith.
Change will come through members of the Church and not by patronising religion-haters haranguing the Vatican — all their hectoring does is cause ranks to close. When the Pope visits, I can only hope other Brits will decide to give up the more savage side of the Pope-bashing pastime for good.

hiorta

I doubt if 'Britain' has any interest in Catholicism, which is doing a great job in self-bashing anyway.

mehfesto

She should come over here!
She'd love it! We don't even have any royals to not marry or anything!

Winty

hiorta wrote: »

I doubt if 'Britain' has any interest in Catholicism, which is doing a great job in self-bashing anyway.

The writer is a nutter IMO, the average British and Irish person have little or no interest in a superstition cult.

checkyabadself

Isn't it the objective of all religions to bash the infidels of other (non-true path to the salvation) ones?

c_man

I thought individuals and not organisations rape people.

Yeah, the organisation did no cover-up or facilitate those who committed the acts...

It's merely playing the victim card. Like when any report damaging to the church is released, the apologists are immediately out claiming "church bashing".

ShooterSF

I am pleased that my religion can take criticism, though. A couple of days ago, I was invited to join a protest on Facebook against the Pope's visit. The group's creators had doctored a photograph to make it look as though the Bishop of Rome was wearing Borat's lime mankini under his robes. I suspect that they would not repeat that trick with an Islamic prophet now.

The writer must have been too busy playing the victim to notice a certain "Draw Mohammed Day" on facebook not so long ago!

mewso

She must have missed Draw Muhammad day if she thinks

that they would not repeat that trick with an Islamic prophet now.

(whoops Shooter beat me to it.)

Completely misses the terrible cynicism in the Pope saying he shares other people's sense of betrayal.

pH

I agree with Tim Minchin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRDfut2Vx0 (NSFW - NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY!)

panda100

Yawn.....these 'Stop bashing Catholics' articles are just so tiresome.
Sloppy journalism at its worse with the same nonsensical formula:

1) Refer to atheists such as Dawkins as 'sneering', arrogant types.

I can honestly say that I have come across dozens of scornful Catholics and very few sneering atheists.

2)Challenge atheists to criticise and ridicule Islam,like Catholicism is the lesser of two evils.

Uh Newsflash, Ireland and the UK are predominatly Christian and Catholic countrys so why even mention Islam,when it has nothing to do with our society?

3)Perpetuate the myth that atheists are somewhat unwilling to engage in debate.

This little gem always makes me laugh. I've watched countless debates and interviews where the religious walks away from the non-believer absolutely refusing to engage in any more discussion.


Also, she completly contradicts herself. She says the church as an institution has to change after the 'abuse scandal', or mass rape of young children to non RC's, at the end of the article. Yet at the beginning she says that it was individauls and not the organisation that was to blame?!
Why does the church need to change If it was just individuals to blame?

Zillah

She's right in a few points. A Protestant has no right to criticise the beliefs of a Catholic, their's are just as ridiculous. And the law (in regards to the monarch) should not discriminate by picking out a particular religion.

Winty

Zillah wrote: »

She's right in a few points. A Protestant has no right to criticise the beliefs of a Catholic, their's are just as ridiculous.

True

Zillah wrote: »

And the law (in regards to the monarch) should not discriminate by picking out a particular religion.

I disagree, The Monarch is the head of the Church of England so you need to have a Protestant family line or what would happen if a Catholic became King ?
I care from a Historical point nothing to do with faith.

PeterIanStaker

This article raises a very important issue - who else wants to see Borat's thong photoshopped on to Mohammed now?

Zillah

Winty wrote: »

I disagree, The Monarch is the head of the Church of England so you need to have a Protestant family line or what would happen if a Catholic became King ?
I care from a Historical point nothing to do with faith.

Oh right yeah, very true. I suppose it would be easiest all round if we just disbanded the monarchy.

Winty

Zillah wrote: »

Oh right yeah, very true. I suppose it would be easiest all round if we just disbanded the monarchy.

Spot on, a modern Britian does not need a half German half Greek monarchy.

Sorry I digress.

robindch

Another English guy goes berserk on behalf of the pope:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/senior-catholic-blames-uks-moral-wasteland-on-equal-rights-2067112.html

So angry that his control of grammar was temporarily loosened, a leading adviser to the archbishop of Westminster vented thusly:

Edmund Adamus wrote:

Whether we like it or not, as British citizens and residents of this country – and whether we are even prepared as Catholics to accept this reality and all it implies – the fact is that historically, and continuing right now, Britain, and in particular London, has been and is the geopolitical epicentre of the culture of death. [...] Our laws and lawmakers for over 50 years have been the most permissively anti-life and progressively anti-family and marriage, in essence one of the most anti-Catholic landscapes, culturally speaking – more than even those places where Catholics suffer open persecution. [...he wants catholics to...] exhibit counter-cultural signals against the selfish, hedonistic wasteland that is the objectification of women for sexual gratification. [...] Britain in particular, with its ever-increasing commercialisation of sex, not to mention its permissive laws advancing the 'gay' agenda, is such a wasteland.

Meanwhile, Ben Summerskill, the chief exec of the gay rights group Stonewall, commented:

Ben Summerskill wrote:

Of course the Pope should visit Britain. But the gratuitously offensive comments being made by the Archbishop's adviser are hardly likely to promote sensitive debate about respect for religion in the 21st century. You would think that, given its present status, the Roman Catholic Church in Britain would be slightly more sensitive about wagging its finger at other people

ShooterSF

Of course the Pope should visit Britain. But the gratuitously offensive comments being made by the Archbishop's adviser are hardly likely to promote sensitive debate about respect for religion in the 21st century. You would think that, given its present status, the Roman Catholic Church in Britain would be slightly more sensitive about wagging its finger at other people

Meh beats wagging their côck at them..

panda100

robindch wrote: »

Another English guy goes berserk on behalf of the pope:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/senior-catholic-blames-uks-moral-wasteland-on-equal-rights-2067112.html

Wasn't Tony Blair a Catholic?

I presume by 'anti-life' he refers to unborn foetuses and not actual living,breathing human beings. War and deaths of thousands of people didn't seem to bother God fearing-Bush and Catholic Blair that much.

Dades

panda100 wrote: »

Wasn't Tony Blair a Catholic?

Blair converted toward the end of his tenure (or after?)

His missis already was.

demonspawn

Winty wrote: »

What do you think

I think this is the atheism & agnosticism forum. The Christian forum is ---->.
You guys probably get lost once in a while when you go on your "bash the heathen" sprees, just thought I'd show you back to your own forum section.

No disrespect meant by the way, I just find it incredibly irritating how the Christians can run rampant through every other section of R&S but when anyone tries to post in the Christianity section they're locked down by the second post. Double standards if ever I saw them, but Catholics are quite notorious for their double standards.

Winty

demonspawn wrote: »

I think this is the atheism & agnosticism forum. The Christian forum is ---->.
You guys probably get lost once in a while when you go on your "bash the heathen" sprees, just thought I'd show you back to your own forum section.
.

Hey Big Man

Did you just call me a Christian, thats fighting talk

demonspawn

Winty wrote: »

Hey Big Man

Did you just call me a Christian, thats fighting talk

I'm 6'2" and 190 lbs., not that big really.

IMO the writer is a right wing - chip on her shoulder - how dare you critise the holy church nutter. but thats just what I think.

I think it's safe to say you're a Christian, yes. I'd even go so far as to say you're a Catholic Christian, but I could be mistaken.

Edit: I just deciphered your post and it seems I made a mistake. I guess it's just your writing style that confused me. Sorry, didn't mean any offense. I should probably read articles linked in threads before posting in future.

Winty

demonspawn wrote: »

Edit: I just deciphered your post and it seems I made a mistake. I guess it's just your writing style that confused me. Sorry, didn't mean any offense. I should probably read articles linked in threads before posting in future.

Happy Days, "Heaven" forbid somebody mistook me for a Christian

panda100

Dades wrote: »

Blair converted toward the end of his tenure (or after?)

Isn't it a bit hypocrtical of the RC church to accept into its flock the head of these lawmakers who presided over the apparent "geopolitical epicentre of the culture of death ".

Can he not see the irony on blaming societys woe's on the lack of Catholic 'values' in goverment making decisisons when a Catholic was prime minister.

demonspawn

Winty wrote: »

Happy Days, "Heaven" forbid somebody mistook me for a Christian

Burn the Christia...err...burn the witch!!!

Dades

Two things...

demonspawn wrote: »

I think this is the atheism & agnosticism forum. The Christian forum is ---->.
You guys probably get lost once in a while when you go on your "bash the heathen" sprees, just thought I'd show you back to your own forum section.

The admittance policy is not up to you to create, or enforce. We welcome everyone here as long they adhere to the rules. A non-believer only forum would fast become a very two-dimensional place.

demonspawn wrote: »

No disrespect meant by the way, I just find it incredibly irritating how the Christians can run rampant through every other section of R&S but when anyone tries to post in the Christianity section they're locked down by the second post. Double standards if ever I saw them, but Catholics are quite notorious for their double standards.

Rather than pointing out flaws in how another forum operates - if you had read the Charter here you'd see we do not tolerate talk of other forums or their moderation here.

That is all.

robindch

demonspawn wrote: »

I just find it incredibly irritating how the Christians can run rampant through every other section of R&S but when anyone tries to post in the Christianity section they're locked down by the second post. Double standards if ever I saw them, but Catholics are quite notorious for their double standards.

FYI -- the mods of the esteemed christianity forum are both protestants, or were the last time I visited.