7dayshop sold me counterfeit goods

Arciphel

Just a heads up to anyone to be careful when dealing with 7dayshop, I've been using them for years and found them great until yesterday.

I ordered an Arc mouse from them last week for £9.99 and when it arrived it turns out it's a counterfeit, and not a Microsoft mouse at all but a cheap copy. RRP of £49.99 my arse!

With hindsight, the sneaky buggers have also turned it so that in the photo you can't see that it has no Microsoft branding...

I've written to them looking for my money back, I assume I can get it back as the item is a fake and therefore not as described?

antocann

the add doesnt say anything about microsoft

keithclancy

Doesn't claim to be a Microsoft Arc Mouse at all ???

dudara

I agree with antocann. There doesn't appear to be any mention of Microsoft branding at all on the ad.

Saruman

Nope, it says it is an OEM mouse which is why its so cheap. OEM does not mean it is microsoft.

That said, Arc mouse is a trademark for Microsoft is it not?

That picture does not even look like the arc mouse, it is just a similar shape.

Paulw

You got what was described. It doesn't say Microsoft anywhere in the ad.

It's cheap and cheerful. You got what you paid for.

Arciphel

Gentlemen, I have to disagree. I know it doesn't mention MS in the ad, however it is representing itself as the genuine item. The actual MS one isn't taht much more expensive than this, aslo they claim this has a RRP of £49.99 which is the price of the genuine item in a brick & mortar store.

As for saying it doesn't look like the MS mouse, see below...

mickoneill30

I think the thread is more a warning to people to not assume a brand if it's not mentioned in the ad.

Also never pay any attention to RRP. That means nothing.

Arciphel wrote: »

With hindsight, the sneaky buggers have also turned it so that in the photo you can't see that it has no Microsoft branding...

Click on the more images. Image 3 shows it has no Microsoft branding.

Paulw

Arciphel wrote: »

I know it doesn't mention MS in the ad, however it is representing itself as the genuine item.

As for saying it doesn't look like the MS mouse, see below...

While it may look like an MS Arc mouse, it doesn't make any claims to be an MS arc mouse. It just claims to be an arc (foldable) mouse. Does it fold? If so, you got what you ordered.

You could try claiming that Arc is a registered trademark of Microsoft, so by selling a non-MS "Arc" mouse, they are in breach of that.

But, you got what you ordered.

jpb1974

Agree with everyone else here.. if you bought this thinking it was a genuine Microsoft product then sorry but bigger fo.. you know the rest. There isn't a single mention of the word Microsoft in the product description.

EoghanConway

Extract: This is the OEM version of the Arc Mouse, which means that you get a far better deal on price as it comes in bog standard (white-boxed) packaging but there is no comprimise in quality.

That section is dodgy, the obvious implication is that the product is the same as the retail Arc Mouse (TM Microsoft). Counterfeiters often uses similar names (like "Arcy" or "Arcing") but here they just blatently copy the trademark. Seems like you have a case.

jpb1974

7Day are pretty sound and I'm sure if you don't want the item you can return it and they will refund you.

I wouldn't go all guns blazing at them... just say that they product isn't what you expected and you want to return it for a refund.

The only problem is... the return postage may be at your expense.

Shelli2

Claiming that it is the OEM version of the mouse basically descibes the product as made by mircosoft....not necessarily branded though...to have a case I would assume you would have to prove that the mouse you were sent was not produced by microsoft?.....or more likely, they would have to prove it was made by mircosoft?

Arciphel

Well it's definetely not the MS model as the offical one has shoulder navigation buttons so that you can go back and forwards on the internet, my one has buttons there but they don't work, they are just kind of painted on - like when you see a boy racer with one of those stick on metal things over their petrol cap!

jpb1974

my one has buttons there but they don't work, they are just kind of painted on

Now... that's interesting...

If there is a fundamental difference between the original MS version and the what claims to be the OEM model then it could be fair to say you have a case.

In theory the MS version and OEM version should be pretty much identical (bar branding/logos and the like.)

rubadub

EoghanConway wrote: »

This is the OEM version of the Arc Mouse,
That section is dodgy, the obvious implication is that the product is the same as the retail Arc Mouse (TM Microsoft)

Yes, it is well dodgy, for those that don't know OEM stands for original equipment manufacturer, of course a shady company could say it stands for something different, so I am surprised at 7 day -e.g. in China they put CE marks on stuff and claim it means "Chinese export", the letters are too close together so they are not a direct copy of the CE mark.

I have had several OEM dvd drives, come with no cables or fixings, no fancy box etc, but they would still be branded as mitsumi or whatever, some will have no branding but it is still made by that company.

Cabaal

Arciphel wrote: »

Gentlemen, I have to disagree. I know it doesn't mention MS in the ad, however it is representing itself as the genuine item

Where?
Again it doesn't mention Microsoft anywhere, if it mentioned MS you'd have a case.
Your argument is based on your assumption that its the MS mouse

The actual MS one isn't taht much more expensive than this, aslo they claim this has a RRP of £49.99 which is the price of the genuine item in a brick & mortar store.

Again its your assumption that they are suggesting it is the MS house, its not and no where does it state this

jor el

Shelli2 wrote: »

Claiming that it is the OEM version of the mouse basically descibes the product as made by mircosoft

No it doesn't. OEM has nothing to do with Microsoft specifically, it's a term that gets used in many places and for many reasons, but generally means you don't get retail packaging. The content should be identical to the retail package, but these were basically meant to be bought in bulk for distribution with a complete system.

Since the ad makes no mention of Microsoft, or Arc (TM) Mouse, then it is not a Microsoft Arc (TM) Mouse. It is a generic arc mouse, described as Arc (Foldable) Mouse, and is the OEM version (non-retail packaging) of it. IT is not fake, as it doesn't make any claims of being an MS mouse.

Arciphel wrote:

I've written to them looking for my money back, I assume I can get it back as the item is a fake and therefore not as described?

Irish and EU consumer protection does not apply to purchases made in Jersey. However, Jersey does have it's own consumer laws, and laws relating to distance selling. This may be of some use to you if 7dayshop don't want to take back the mouse. You will have to pay for the return though.

There's no real issue here. You bought cheap sh*t from 7dayshop, and you got cheap sh*t.

Arciphel

Cabaal wrote: »

Where?
Again it doesn't mention Microsoft anywhere, if it mentioned MS you'd have a case.
Your argument is based on your assumption that its the MS mouse

Again its your assumption that they are suggesting it is the MS house, its not and no where does it state this

I have an iPad to sell, it looks like an iPad and it's called an iPad, it's cheap because it's in an OEM box so there's no manual but the iPad is top notch. Oh sorry you must have assumed it was an APPLE iPad, it's a Medion iPad from Lidl, sorry, your mistake. :rolleyes: Dum De Dum!

jpb1974

The Microsoft Arc™ Mouse is trademark registered... therefore I do wonder should 7Day be selling something that claims to be the OEM version of the Arc™ Mouse...

As per their site:

"This is the OEM version of the Arc Mouse, which means that you get a far better deal on price as it comes in bog standard (white-boxed) packaging but there is no comprimise in quality."

But there is a compromise in quality because as the OP has stated there are 2 functioning buttons on the Microsoft version that have been omitted from this version.

Arciphel

jor el wrote: »

Irish and EU consumer protection does not apply to purchases made in Jersey. However, Jersey does have it's own consumer laws, and laws relating to distance selling. This may be of some use to you if 7dayshop don't want to take back the mouse. You will have to pay for the return though.

They're based in Guernsey, not Jersey. But they have e-mailed me a freepost address so I can send it back free, and they agreed with me that the problem was of their making as consumers could mistakenly assume the item was made by Microsoft.

jor el wrote: »

There's no real issue here. You bought cheap sh*t from 7dayshop, and you got cheap sh*t.

Thanks for that insightful bit of feedback :cool:

eightyfish

The ad is misleading, but it's obvious that it's not the Microsoft mouse. There's thousands of ads on eBay like this and you just have to be weary. If the description is in any way ambiguous, and the price is far lower than normal - it's a copy.

For a tenner, though, it looks like it was worth a punt.

eightyfish

jpb1974 wrote: »

But there is a compromise in quality because as the OP has stated there are 2 functioning buttons on the Microsoft version that have been omitted from this version.

This is the microsoft one and this is the Op's. Looks like he's talking about the hashed-out area on his version.

Paulw

rubadub wrote: »

OEM stands for original equipment manufacturer

I doubt MS actually make the MS Arc Mouse. They buy them from a 3rd party company (probably in China), add a MS logo, and add software.

So, saying it's an OEM Arc mouse just means that it's not badged and doesn't have the manuals and similar packaging stuff.

That doesn't mean it's a fake.

Arciphel

eightyfish wrote: »

This is the microsoft one and this is the Op's. Looks like he's talking about the hashed-out area on his version.

Yup, your spot on their eightyfish.

astrofool

Paulw wrote: »

I doubt MS actually make the MS Arc Mouse. They buy them from a 3rd party company (probably in China), add a MS logo, and add software.

So, saying it's an OEM Arc mouse just means that it's not badged and doesn't have the manuals and similar packaging stuff.

That doesn't mean it's a fake.

OEM doesn't have anything to do with badges, it's to do with the packaging it comes in, usually without colourful packaging and manuals (white box).

An OEM MS Arc Mouse would have to have the MS logo on it. There is no difference between the hardware supplied when it's OEM.

The iPod is not made by Apple, it's made by Foxconn, but Apple would not let it be sold without a logo, same for the Arc Mouse by Microsoft. The Arc Mouse was also designed by Microsoft's hardware division.

This is an OEM version of a knock off mouse of the MS Arc Mouse.

jor el

Arciphel wrote: »

Thanks for that insightful bit of feedback :cool:

Thanks for starting this useless rant of a thread. 7dayshop have completely owned up to the mistake being theirs and have supplied a free post address for you. Instead of wasting everyone's time, you could have just given them a minute to reply to you.

jpb1974

Thanks for starting this useless rant of a thread. 7dayshop have completely owned up to the mistake being theirs and have supplied a free post address for you. Instead of wasting everyone's time, you could have just given them a minute to reply to you.

Kop on to yourself there... the OP has a case... he hasn't wasted my time... and I'm sure others don't mind reviewing the situation... so please don't speak on our behalf.

Paulw

In this case, 7dayshop makes no claim to be selling an OEM MS Arc mouse. It just says it's an OEM Arc (foldable) mouse. Therefore, what was advertised is what was delivered.

Arciphel

jor el wrote: »

Thanks for starting this useless rant of a thread. 7dayshop have completely owned up to the mistake being theirs and have supplied a free post address for you. Instead of wasting everyone's time, you could have just given them a minute to reply to you.

I only started the thread in case anyone else made the same assumption I did and ended up with something they didn't want. I don't see how it's a mistake on their part, it would be a mistake if they had sent me out the wrong one in error, no?

But anyway, I won't say any more - I don't want to come across as being rude and unhelpful.

rubadub

Paulw wrote: »

I doubt MS actually make the MS Arc Mouse. They buy them from a 3rd party company (probably in China), add a MS logo, and add software.

Agreed, but this is a different product from the microsoft one -whoever manufactures it. It is not just missing badges & instructions, it is a different product. I would have guessed it was not true OEM myself due to the vastly reduced price though, but it is quite misleading and strange for a shop like that to throw their credibility/goodwill out the window.

astrofool wrote: »

OEM doesn't have anything to do with badges, it's to do with the packaging it comes in, usually without colourful packaging and manuals (white box).

Depends on your definition, my company sell (what we call) OEM machines with different badges & packaging, there is no mention of our company at all in any of the literature. Some people like to buy a "range" and have a entire set of products in the supposedly same range with same badges, this is popular with catalogue companies, we also buy products manufactured elsewhere and relabel them as ours. It also means the warranty does not fall on us, so we sell it to the other company at a discount and they take care of warranty.

As I already said though OEM could mean anything, I doubt it is a legal term, like the CE/Chinese export scam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer

Confusing and contradictory definitions

OEM may also refer to a company that purchases--for use in its own products--a component made by a second company.[7][8][9] For instance, under this definition, if company 'A Inc' purchases optical drives from company 'B Ltd' to put in 'A Inc' computers, then 'company A' is the OEM.

An even more confusing, contradictory definition is a company that sells the product of a second company under its own brand name.[10][3]

Companies who follow the above practices may be better termed value-added resellers (VARs) or resellers, respectively.


Origin of term

OEM is defined by IBM to refer to "a manufacturer of equipment that may be marketed by another manufacturer".[1]

The term was used in the early 1960s by Digital Equipment Corporation and its vendors to refer to value-added resellers.[