Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

2nd Row Donkey

yiddo59 wrote: »

http://www.dearmrlevy.com/dml/2013/12/18/the-book-of-daniel-blame-it-on-the-boaz

Must have missed this the first time around, hilarious article. Going to rob the link and pass it around on facebook. Cheers

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Alright then, when I read your response yesterday I interpreted it as you saying that you were not interested in Ormus or my views/opinions and that we'd be better of keeping them to ourselves via PM's, which frankly, I didn't appreciate. If that's not what you meant then I withdraw my sarcastic response.

The only reason I bumped the thread was because Ormus hasn't used the this spurs forum in quite some time but yesterday he re-appeared and was replying in some of the more active threads such as the Man U game thread and the Ade thread.

Anyway, as I pointed out about 7-8 posts back , Ormus has consistently defended DL over the life span of this thread (which is 3 years old and has nearly 400 posts) and i thought we'd all (or most of us) would like to hear his opinions now considering recent events, much like we did in relation to Saab Ed and his AVB views last season.

Not happy with Levy for the way he treated AVB and for the way he got rid without a solid plan in place.

It was a ludicrous sacking. We had taken two bad hammerings and the lack of fluidity in attack was worrying, but we were still in an ok league position and the team was likely to improve as the season went on. I'm guessing there was a personality clash and it had a lot to do with several incidents behind the scenes, such as AVB's treatment of Adebayor, and Levy allowing PSG permission to speak to AVB during the summer.

But it still doesn't excuse the sacking of a promising manager and installing a novice. It was a bad play by Levy.

I don't think it's directly related to what I've said in the past about the way Levy runs the club financially. This was a footballing decision more than a financial one, albeit the two are always interlinked.

It's a bit worrying when the manager doesn't seem to be the main man in choosing which players we sign, but then again AVB was all for getting Baldini in in the first place, so he can't really blame Levy for that. I guess the theory is that it helps with continuity.

As for Sherwood, who knows, he might be the next big thing. More likely he'll be gone in the summer and the managerial merrygoround will continue. It's not like it's just Levy though, Alan Pardew is now the second longest serving manager in the Premiership!

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Alright then, when I read your response yesterday I interpreted it as you saying that you were not interested in Ormus or my views/opinions and that we'd be better of keeping them to ourselves via PM's, which frankly, I didn't appreciate. If that's not what you meant then I withdraw my sarcastic response.

The only reason I bumped the thread was because Ormus hasn't used the this spurs forum in quite some time but yesterday he re-appeared and was replying in some of the more active threads such as the Man U game thread and the Ade thread.

Anyway, as I pointed out about 7-8 posts back , Ormus has consistently defended DL over the life span of this thread (which is 3 years old and has nearly 400 posts) and i thought we'd all (or most of us) would like to hear his opinions now considering recent events, much like we did in relation to Saab Ed and his AVB views last season.

Oh and I just wanna add that I'm flattered you were having an argument about how to get me to talk.

Is it because I'm so wise and you value my opinion, or because you wanted to say I told you so? I fear the latter :rolleyes:

Dublin Spur

Levy is quite good in his role at the chairman of a business
But he is quite poor in his role as the chairman of a football club

He keeps appointing and sacking managers at a awful rate (9 in 13 yrs)
He keeps changing the mangerial structure (on minute we have a DOF, the next we're back to a traditional managerial system).
At this point I don't think he knows what he's doing.

I'd love to see him get the boot.
But as long as the cash keeps rolling in, I guess uncle Joe will keep him.

2nd Row Donkey

Ormus wrote: »

Oh and I just wanna add that I'm flattered you were having an argument about how to get me to talk.

Is it because I'm so wise and you value my opinion, or because you wanted to say I told you so? I fear the latter :rolleyes:

You guessed right, but you had to go and spoil it all by agreeing with the rest of us via your previous response!:D Damn!

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Levy is quite good in his role at the chairman of a business
But he is quite poor in his role as the chairman of a football club

He keeps appointing and sacking managers at a awful rate (9 in 13 yrs)
He keeps changing the mangerial structure (on minute we have a DOF, the next we're back to a traditional managerial system).
At this point I don't think he knows what he's doing.

I'd love to see him get the boot.
But as long as the cash keeps rolling in, I guess uncle Joe will keep him.

Well we've been over this before.

I want Spurs to be run on sound financial footing, spending money we earn and gaining our success through football.

You want Spurs to spend spend spend, a la City or Chelsea, or a la Leeds or Newcastle in the past, and gain success through money.

We're never gonna agree.

Whatever about Levy, do you think Uncle Joe is in this to make money? Seems to me he's put way more into Spurs over the years than he can ever hope to make back.

Dublin Spur

I'm not coming from a spending angle, I don't want us to spend more than we have. It just so happens that ENIC and their owner have quite a lot of wealth, and it would be nice if he sent a small % of it our way to help us complete on a bigger stage.

What I'm actually talking about an incompetent football club chairman who keeps hiring and firing at an embarressing rate but never seems to face the bullett himself, he is the common denominator in all of this mess.

As regards Uncle Joe making money, THFC's value now is a hell of a lot more than it was when ENIC bought it, you can rest assured that Mr Lewis will get a significent return on his investment if he ever decides to sell.

pleasant Co.

Correct me if I'm wrong: I'd imagine the board votes on whether a manager gets fired or not?

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I'm not coming from a spending angle, I don't want us to spend more than we have. It just so happens that ENIC and their owner have quite a lot of wealth, and it would be nice if he sent a small % of it our way to help us complete on a bigger stage.

What I'm actually talking about an incompetent football club chairman who keeps hiring and firing at an embarressing rate but never seems to face the bullett himself, he is the common denominator in all of this mess.

As regards Uncle Joe making money, THFC's value now is a hell of a lot more than it was when ENIC bought it, you can rest assured that Mr Lewis will get a significent return on his investment if he ever decides to sell.

Fair enough, matter of opinion. I don't think ENIC are making much money out of Spurs. If the club has grown in value that's mainly because we've been competing higher up in the league than before, attracting bigger and better players, more attractive to fans, more sponsorship etc

Which of our most recent managers would you have kept?

AVB: I'd have kept him on, not sure why he left, seems a bit ridiculous. Was seemingly partly mutual but hard to tell without all the facts.

'Arry: Did well but then the whole England thing was disrespectful and the team collapsed in the second half of his last season. Some would say he'd brought the team as far as he could.

Ramos: Absolute disaster, had to go.

Jol: Lovely guy and steadied the ship, but pretty naive and seemed to have lost the ability to motivate the players.

Santini: Upped and left

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Fair enough, matter of opinion. I don't think ENIC are making much money out of Spurs. If the club has grown in value that's mainly because we've been competing higher up in the league than before, attracting bigger and better players, more attractive to fans, more sponsorship etc

Which of our most recent managers would you have kept?
AVB: I'd have kept him on, not sure why he left, seems a bit ridiculous. Was seemingly partly mutual but hard to tell without all the facts.

'Arry: Did well but then the whole England thing was disrespectful and the team collapsed in the second half of his last season. Some would say he'd brought the team as far as he could.

Ramos: Absolute disaster, had to go.

Jol: Lovely guy and steadied the ship, but pretty naive and seemed to have lost the ability to motivate the players.

Santini: Upped and left

Good question Ormus:

George Graham was sacked just after he got us into an FAC semi final, I was delighted when we got Hoddle in (for semtimental reasons) but looking back now sacking Graham (at that point in the season) was the wrong decision.

I think Jol was treated harshly, It's widely known that Levy & Kemsley spoke with Ramos in the summer of 07 but didn't have the bottle to sack Jol after he got us to another 5th place finish and he was still quite popular with the fans. We eneded up in a bad place with Jol but his position was made untennable by the actions of the chairman in the preceeding months.

I was totally against the sacking of Redknapp, 4th, 5th and another 4th anf he gets shown the door after being told that the club has decided to go in a new direction - absolutle madness, it all points to a personal falling out IMO

AVB gets the boot, 6 months after leading us to our highest ever PL points tally and with us something like 4 points off the top 4. Yes things started to come undone for the team, but there were rumours of a bust up between AVB and Levy and when that happens there's only one winner.

I think Hoddle & Ramos just had to go, our results over long periods were awful and did not improve after full preseason where they had ample time to address the problems. That said Levy did sell Berbatov and Keane and replaced them with Frazer Campbell and Pavlechenko which kinda screwed Ramos's chances.

Santini are the oddest one of all, did he walk out ? was he give a choice ?
I'm not sure we'll ever know, what I think we can safely say is that he wasn't the right man for the job in the first place

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Good question Ormus:

George Graham was sacked just after he got us into an FAC semi final, I was delighted when we got Hoddle in (for semtimental reasons) but looking back now sacking Graham (at that point in the season) was the wrong decision.

I think Jol was treated harshly, It's widely known that Levy & Kemsley spoke with Ramos in the summer of 07 but didn't have the bottle to sack Jol after he got us to another 5th place finish and he was still quite popular with the fans. We eneded up in a bad place with Jol but his position was made untennable by the actions of the chairman in the preceeding months.

I was totally against the sacking of Redknapp, 4th, 5th and another 4th anf he gets shown the door after being told that the club has decided to go in a new direction - absolutle madness, it all points to a personal falling out IMO

AVB gets the boot, 6 months after leading us to our highest ever PL points tally and with us something like 4 points off the top 4. Yes things started to come undone for the team, but there were rumours of a bust up between AVB and Levy and when that happens there's only one winner.

I think Hoddle & Ramos just had to go, our results over long periods were awful and did not improve after full preseason where they had ample time to address the problems. That said Levy did sell Berbatov and Keane and replaced them with Frazer Campbell and Pavlechenko which kinda screwed Ramos's chances.

Santini are the oddest one of all, did he walk out ? was he give a choice ?
I'm not sure we'll ever know, what I think we can safely say is that he wasn't the right man for the job in the first place

Ok so you were delighted when we got in Hoddle, so you woulda done the same at the time?

I love Jol in a way but he was clueless and showed it at Fulham.

Redknapp got us 3 great league finishes but the third one was a bit of a disaster and seemed directly caused by him taking his eye off the ball and being a bit disrespectful to the club. That said, I still would have liked to see him stay, but totally understand him going.

Ramos and Hoddle we agree on.

Santini, well he arrived with a big reputation, an exciting appointment. Absolute disaster in the end, but did you think he was a bad appointment at the time?

AVB is a strange one. I believe it wasn't a straightforward sacking. Maybe not completely mutual either. Maybe a personality clash. Doesn't reflect well on Levy, but we just do not know the facts.

At the end of the day, it's very hard to find a good manager and keep him happy and keep the team happy and keep the board happy and keep the press happy for any length of time.

Liverpool used to give managers time, but then went through Hodgson and Dalglish in quick succession. Rodgers is sitting pretty at the moment but that could change by the end of the season.

United went with Moyes. Tough times now. Will he get a second season?

Chelsea have been through 8 managers in 8 years since Mourinho left last time.

City have had 7 managers since the turn of the millenium.

So basically Chelsea go through managers the quickest, then City and Spurs, Liverpool have been quicker over the last few seasons, United have only just joined the merrygoround.

Dublin Spur

Being up there with the likes of Chelsea and Man City is embarressing as their clubs are run as toys for their owners. Ancelotti was sacked the season after they won the double, Mancini was sacked after delivering them a league title. It's complete madness.

Apart from his judgement on hiring and firing, I think Levy's biggest problem is the way he interfers in the football side, it's like he wants to be the manager, he sells our best players, then he gambles on their replacements by leaving it too late in the transfer window looking to pick up a bargin. Then there's the structure, setting up a DOF system, then scraping it then setting it up again !

sick of his antics now

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Being up there with the likes of Chelsea and Man City is embarressing as their clubs are run as toys for their owners. Ancelotti was sacked the season after they won the double, Mancini was sacked after delivering them a league title. It's complete madness.

Apart from his judgement on hiring and firing, I think Levy's biggest problem is the way he interfers in the football side, it's like he wants to be the manager, he sells our best players, then he gambles on their replacements by leaving it too late in the transfer window looking to pick up a bargin. Then there's the structure, setting up a DOF system, then scraping it then setting it up again !

sick of his antics now

You just don't understand how the football world works.

Some day it'll come clear to you.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

You just don't understand how the football world works.

Some day it'll come clear to you.

in your humble opinion

I prefer to stick to the facts if that's okay

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

in your humble opinion

I prefer to stick to the facts if that's okay

You're ignoring the facts.

The number of managers Spurs have had is average by Premiership standards.

They went through managers quicker pre-Levy than post-Levy

The club has grown and the squad has improved immeasurably since he took over.

Spending on players has more than doubled since he took over.

These are facts. They're not my opinion. I'm done with this debate. You don't wanna know.

jobeenfitz

Ormus wrote: »

You're ignoring the facts.

The number of managers Spurs have had is average by Premiership standards.

They went through managers quicker pre-Levy than post-Levy

The club has grown and the squad has improved immeasurably since he took over.

Spending on players has more than doubled since he took over.

These are facts. They're not my opinion. I'm done with this debate. You don't wanna know.

I really do think we should look at the facts more often instead of being emotional, although that is easier said than done. I remember life before levy/lewis, wasn't good. Don't know anything about you Ormus but you seem a bit condescending in this post?

Ormus

jobeenfitz wrote: »

I really do think we should look at the facts more often instead of being emotional, although that is easier said than done. I remember life before levy/lewis, wasn't good. Don't know anything about you Ormus but you seem a bit condescending in this post?

Ah ok maybe you're right Jo, but I don't mean to be condescending. As you say though, I remember the hard times when we were a laughing stock. We're not the finished article now but by Christ we've come a long way in the last 10 years.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

Ah ok maybe you're right Jo, but I don't mean to be condescending. As you say though, I remember the hard times when we were a laughing stock. We're not the finished article now but by Christ we've come a long way in the last 10 years.

Agree with you there's no doubt we've come along way under ENIC but Levy brought us as far as he can.
IMO to paraphrase Dunphy "he's a good charman not a great one"

Dublin Spur

The main fact is that we have won 1 trophy in 13 years under ENIC. That's our worst run since before the war.

The average lifespan of a Spurs manager under ENIC is around 18 months, who keeps making these dud appointments ?

We constantly sell our best players and at the same time charge some of the highest ticket prices in Europe,

Again, not opinions, just facts

Am I supposed to be happy just bacause we're not a **** as we were under previous chairmen ? That's setting the bar very low in my opinion and you're being hoodwinked by ENIC if you buy into this notion.

irishmover

Dublin Spur wrote: »

The main fact is that we have won 1 trophy in 13 years under ENIC. That's our worst run since before the war.

The average lifespan of a Spurs manager under ENIC is around 18 months, who keeps making these dud appointments ?

We constantly sell our best players and at the same time charge some of the highest ticket prices in Europe,

Again, not opinions, just facts

Am I supposed to be happy just bacause we're not a **** as we were under previous chairmen ? That's setting the bar very low in my opinion and you're being hoodwinked by ENIC if you buy into this notion.

ENIC is in it to profit. They aren't really in it for the trophies. That in a nutshell is the sad truth. The only good thing to come from this though is that we're not in Chelsea's shoes and having to scramble to try meet the FFP regulations.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

The main fact is that we have won 1 trophy in 13 years under ENIC. That's our worst run since before the war.

The average lifespan of a Spurs manager under ENIC is around 18 months, who keeps making these dud appointments ?

We constantly sell our best players and at the same time charge some of the highest ticket prices in Europe,

Again, not opinions, just facts

Am I supposed to be happy just bacause we're not a **** as we were under previous chairmen ? That's setting the bar very low in my opinion and you're being hoodwinked by ENIC if you buy into this notion.

Trophies are not the measure anymore. We've been over this. If the aim was to win trophies, we'd play our strongest team in the cups and rotate for the league. Think about it.

Our worst run before the way. See that just tells me you don't remember the 90s. We might have won a league cup in 99 and an FA Cup in 91. but we battled relegation a few seasons and we were a soft touch laughing stock. If you can't see the improvement in the club and squad since then, there is no hope for you.

Constantly sell our best players, I assume you're referring to Bale, Modric and Berbatov? They all went on strike. So we have a weird chairman who sells players who refuse to play for the club.

I'm not saying you should be happy cos we're less $hit than we were before, but surely you're closer to being happy? Otherwise who are you comparing us to? What's your point of reference?

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Trophies are not the measure anymore. We've been over this. If the aim was to win trophies, we'd play our strongest team in the cups and rotate for the league. Think about it.

Our worst run before the way. See that just tells me you don't remember the 90s. We might have won a league cup in 99 and an FA Cup in 91. but we battled relegation a few seasons and we were a soft touch laughing stock. If you can't see the improvement in the club and squad since then, there is no hope for you.

Constantly sell our best players, I assume you're referring to Bale, Modric and Berbatov? They all went on strike. So we have a weird chairman who sells players who refuse to play for the club.

I'm not saying you should be happy cos we're less $hit than we were before, but surely you're closer to being happy? Otherwise who are you comparing us to? What's your point of reference?

So trophies are not a measure of sucess any more, the only conclusion I can take from that statement is that you're not that bothered whether Spurs win a trophy or not ? Do you think Arsenal fans think they have been "sucessful" in 9 years compared to when they were winning a sh*tload of trophies 10-15 years ago ?

I would be interested to get your view on what actually is a measure of sucess in football if trophies don't count for anything ? Is simply surviving in a league somewhere between 10th and 5th a measure of sucess for a club with our fanbase, history and revenue ?

I was at Wembley in 08 when we beat Chelsea and it was a wonderful day, it's what football is all about, participating in and winning finals, we might as well jack it all in if the club are more focused on other prioirties.

You mention some seasons in the 90's where we were a laughing stock, and I agree we were, but you also fail mention the shambolic seasons on the 00's under ENIC when we also faced a serious threat of going down.

In relation to selling players, how could Liverpool not sell Suarez in the summer when he "demanded" a move, but we had to sell Berbatov or Carrick or Modric ? It's because ENIC wanted the profit from the transfers more than they wanted the players to stay, on each occaision the club did not have to sell, but they did, just like they always do when the "right" offer comes in.

Sell Carrick, buy Zokora
Sell Berbatov, buy Pavlechenko
Sell Modric, buy Dembele
Sell Keane, get Fraser Campbell on loan

The profit on the above is around €60mil, it's handy money if you don't mind about being left with a much weaker football team. ENIC obviouly didn't.

The media say we spent over 100mil in the summer, but we only spent 5 or 10when you factor in the Bale money, at least on this occassion the club didn't pocket the cash like they did in previous sales, maybe they have learned.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

So trophies are not a measure of sucess any more, the only conclusion I can take from that statement is that you're not that bothered whether Spurs win a trophy or not ? Do you think Arsenal fans think they have been "sucessful" in 9 years compared to when they were winning a sh*tload of trophies 10-15 years ago ?

I would be interested to get your view on what actually is a measure of sucess in football if trophies don't count for anything ? Is simply surviving in a league somewhere between 10th and 5th a measure of sucess for a club with our fanbase, history and revenue ?

I was at Wembley in 08 when we beat Chelsea and it was a wonderful day, it's what football is all about, participating in and winning finals, we might as well jack it all in if the club are more focused on other prioirties.

You mention some seasons in the 90's where we were a laughing stock, and I agree we were, but you also fail mention the shambolic seasons on the 00's under ENIC when we also faced a serious threat of going down.

In relation to selling players, how could Liverpool not sell Suarez in the summer when he "demanded" a move, but we had to sell Berbatov or Carrick or Modric ? It's because ENIC wanted the profit from the transfers more than they wanted the players to stay, on each occaision the club did not have to sell, but they did, just like they always do when the "right" offer comes in.

Sell Carrick, buy Zokora
Sell Berbatov, buy Pavlechenko
Sell Modric, buy Dembele
Sell Keane, get Fraser Campbell on loan

The profit on the above is around €60mil, it's handy money if you don't mind about being left with a much weaker football team. ENIC obviouly didn't.

The media say we spent over 100mil in the summer, but we only spent 5 or 10when you factor in the Bale money, at least on this occassion the club didn't pocket the cash like they did in previous sales, maybe they have learned.

Trophies are of course a sign of success and are very nice to win. But they are not a measure of success, as in you can't say X won 3 trophies and Y won 2 trophies, therefore X is more successful than Y.

By that logic, whoever won the Johnson's Paint Trophy last season had a more successful season than Spurs. Same goes for the Capital One Cup. If the top teams don't play their strongest line ups, then it is a false victory.

If you want real success, it has to be against the top teams playing their top players. Otherwise it's a bit hollow. A consolation cup. For me trophies are nice but they're for the kids really. I want Spurs to grow. The only way to do that is through the Champions League.

So you woulda kept Modric and Berbatov and Bale and let them train in the reserves until their contract ran out or their value went down or both? Ok. It might work. Would you really keep an £85m player who refused to train/play for us, instead of trying to rebuild with the money? Really?

Suarez didn't refuse to train/play for Liverpool. Spot the difference.

Of course we had a few dodgy seasons in the early years of ENIC. It took some time to turn things around. That only shows the size of the mess that the club was in. There is no comparison to the state of the squad and the club and the number of games we win under ENIC compared to before ENIC. The fact that you won't acknowledge that makes it hard to take you seriously.

Look we're going around in circles.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

The difference between those players and Suarez is that Suarez was tied to a long term contract, so by keeping him at Liverpool wasn't much of a risk. Modric tried to leave the season before he left, but we kept him as he had still 3 seasons to run iirc. We got sensational money for each of Bale, Carrick and Berbatov at their time so I don't see what the issue is tbh. We're simply not a club that can retain world class players, like it or not.
Even take a look at Dortmund, they've lost Sahin and Kagawa (both their POTY) in consecutive seasons, they lost Gotze this past summer and this summer they'll lose Lewandowski. Also rumours that Gundogan will leave before long too.
We're well behind Dortmund in our ability to attract and retain world class players yet they're still losing theirs.

Whatever you about ENIC, they've improved the fortunes of the club significantly. It's easily the best Spurs team I've seen in my time supporting the club. Trophies were the traditional, romantic way of measuring success, but it's just not the case any more, whether you like it or not, or, as Ormus has said, we would play our best players in the cups and rotate for the league. There are only 2 trophies these days that all clubs for full pelt to win, that's the PL and the CL. The appeal of the FA Cup has been steadily declining since United pulled out in 2000 and the Carling Cup has never been a priority competition.

Leinstersqspur

Lads, I don't think you're going to resolve this debate unless ENIC sell the club for €200m profit 'after/if' the new stadium is built or else they invest time and money into a manager that brings stability and success.

One thing is certian, ENIC sold our best ever premier league strike partnership just after they had won our first trophy whilst under their control. They didn't replace either and inevitably shafted the new 'Messiah' manager in Ramos.

Doesn't matter who's running the club lads, as one controversial fan said quite recently... "it's the same old Spurs, they will always let you down"

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Lads, I don't think you're going to resolve this debate unless ENIC sell the club for €200m profit 'after/if' the new stadium is built or else they invest time and money into a manager that brings stability and success.

One thing is certian, ENIC sold our best ever premier league strike partnership just after they had won our first trophy whilst under their control. They didn't replace either and inevitably shafted the new 'Messiah' manager in Ramos.

Doesn't matter who's running the club lads, as one controversial fan said quite recently... "it's the same old Spurs, they will always let you down"

I don't get all this talk of us selling our best players. The only alternative is that they stay, they don't wanna play for the club, they get booed, they stop trying, their contract runs down, they leave for nothing. Who wants that?

It's true we didn't adequately replace Berba/Keane, and there was a time when we left too many signings too late, but they seem to have seen the error of their ways on that.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

I don't get all this talk of us selling our best players. The only alternative is that they stay, they don't wanna play for the club, they get booed, they stop trying, their contract runs down, they leave for nothing. Who wants that?

It's true we didn't adequately replace Berba/Keane, and there was a time when we left too many signings too late, but they seem to have seen the error of their ways on that.

I don't mind selling our best players for exorbitant prices if they're replaced.

Perhaps this summer has been the only time we have done this but ENIC would have never got away with selling Bale and not reinvesting the money. The fans would have torn the place apart. Instead they went one better, they got seven new players without have to invest any capital.

Dublin Spur

We will never know what would have happend if Modric or Berbatov of Carrick were made to stay at Spurs, I imagine they simply would have gotton on with it in the end.

They certianly wouldn't have done their careers any good had they opted to sulk in the reserves rather than play for Spurs, it's a shame Levy didn't call their bluffs, but then again Levy's decision was money driven (80 odd mil for an outlay of 25 odd mil) and not for the good of the football side.

Liverpool decided to keep Suarez no matter what, that's the difference.

It's a shame that our lot don't put the football first in the agenda.
Then again, when you know what they are (English National Investment Company) is easy to understand why.

jobeenfitz

The owners have backed the football club. Yes they have made mistakes. Anyone who is old enough to remember the eighties and nineties will know as fact that spurs have massively improved since then. Money plays a big part and sometime it makes sense to sell your best player. I am not saying we should enjoy that fact.

Man U were successful and sold Ronaldo. They also have a bigger Stadium and a bigger following.

With our ground capacity and following in comparison to other teams and our continuous incremental improvement we should be very greatful to the current owners.

Just because of recent problems this fact should not be overlooked.

markesmith

Dublin Spur wrote: »

So trophies are not a measure of sucess any more, the only conclusion I can take from that statement is that you're not that bothered whether Spurs win a trophy or not ?

I'd sooner be in the position we're in now than be Wigan (FA Cup holders) or Birmingham (beat the Gooners in the League Cup there a few years back).

I think we've got the sixth-biggest income in the EPL. We are at our level, and punching slightly above it some seasons.

It beats the dreaded '90s, with a 14th-place finish being spun as 'consolidation'.