Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

terrymccarthy05

There will never a Stadium under UNIC.

irishmover

Dublin Spur wrote: »

okay then were are we going with ENIC ?

What's the plan ?

13 yrs on, 9 mgrs, 1 trophy, 1 CL qualification, best players are always sold, fans getting screwed, some of the highest ticket prices, no insight or information from the top, no stadium, just year after year of the same old ****.

but at least we're not as bad as we were under Alan Sugar !!

So have you even read anything then?

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

okay then were are we going with ENIC ?

What's the plan ?

13 yrs on, 9 mgrs, 1 trophy, 1 CL qualification, best players are always sold, fans getting screwed, some of the highest ticket prices, no insight or information from the top, no stadium, just year after year of the same old ****.

but at least we're not as bad as we were under Alan Sugar !!

Hopefully the plan is to build on this:


1. The most expensively assembled squad in our history
2. Unquestionably the best squad I’ve ever seen at Spurs – eclipsing 81 & 87 in depth & sheer talent. How man Internationals do we own today?
3. 2004-07 the team gained an average of 1.50 points per league game
2008-12 this rose to 1.74
2012-13 this again rose to 1.83
Even now, 2014 it stands at 2.29 (I’ll eat my own head if it stays at that though)
That is incredible. And I’d wager unequalled by any other (non doped) club in the country. It’s illustrates sustained, continuous improvement & upward progression.
4. The last 5 years have seen us finish 3 x 5th & 2 x 4th places. So 5 consecutive years of 5th or higher. This is the 1st time we have ever done that, in our history. That kind of stability is not to be sniffed at or ignored.
5. Regular challengers to the Top 4 or for the Top 4 depending on which journo you read

Dublin Spur

the plan is to use the club to make as much money for ENIC as possible through TV rights, Sponsorship and the explotation of blindly loyal supporters (ie the perfect customers)

Footballing Glory isn't on their agenda

Another season, another new manager, another star player sold, another run in Europa etc... Groundhog Day F.C.

Ormus

Well if ENIC are dragging us down and these are the results, I for one hope they keep dragging us down:

1. The most expensively assembled squad in our history
2. Unquestionably the best squad I’ve ever seen at Spurs – eclipsing 81 & 87 in depth & sheer talent. How man Internationals do we own today?
3. 2004-07 the team gained an average of 1.50 points per league game
2008-12 this rose to 1.74
2012-13 this again rose to 1.83
Even now, 2014 it stands at 2.29 (I’ll eat my own head if it stays at that though)
That is incredible. And I’d wager unequalled by any other (non doped) club in the country. It’s illustrates sustained, continuous improvement & upward progression.
4. The last 5 years have seen us finish 3 x 5th & 2 x 4th places. So 5 consecutive years of 5th or higher. This is the 1st time we have ever done that, in our history. That kind of stability is not to be sniffed at or ignored.
5. Regular challengers to the Top 4 or for the Top 4 depending on which journo you read

pleasant Co.

Dublin Spur wrote: »

the plan is to use the club to make as much money for ENIC as possible through TV rights, Sponsorship and the explotation of blindly loyal supporters (ie the perfect customers)

Footballing Glory isn't on their agenda

Another season, another new manager, another star player sold, another run in Europa etc... Groundhog Day F.C.

surely "footballing glory" would make more money "for ENIC"

irishmover

Dublin Spur wrote: »

the plan is to use the club to make as much money for ENIC as possible through TV rights, Sponsorship and the explotation of blindly loyal supporters (ie the perfect customers)

Footballing Glory isn't on their agenda

Another season, another new manager, another star player sold, another run in Europa etc... Groundhog Day F.C.

Seriously. Click on the second link and read through the bloody article. Most the ****e you're spouting is talked about in there and the sheer fact you've posted it a second time points to you not bothering to read it.

Dublin Spur

irishmover wrote: »

Seriously. Click on the second link and read through the bloody article. Most the ****e you're spouting is talked about in there and the sheer fact you've posted it a second time points to you not bothering to read it.

spouting ****e ? really ?

glad you're enjoying ENIC, wonder who'll be our manager next month !

more enlightened supporters can see through their illusion.

Ormus

He STILL hasn't read it.

This actually does feel like Groundhog Day

Incidentally, the real one was on Sunday.

Hatch99

We all have opinions lads, just because one is not the same as the other doesn't make anyone a gobsh1te. I tend to be a glass half empty man myself. Despite us having a better squad than at any stage during my Spurs time, I still feel the owners should have done and should be doing more to make us challenge at the top. Wishful thinking maybe.
We have missed opportunities recently that we may not get again for a long time. We sell our best players all the time, and that doesn't look like changing. The new stadium doesn't look any closer. My overall gut tells me that the owners are more interested in making money than the club actually winning trophies.

Ormus

I've never understood this stuff about us selling our best players.

Berbatov, Carrick, Modric and Bale all insisted on leaving. Could we really have held onto them? I guess in theory we could, but would they have been motivated? Would they have been a positive influence on the squad? I think not. Are we gonna talk about Caulker, Keane and Defoe? I personally don't think it's accurate to call them our best players.

Arsenal sold Fabregas, Henry, Adebayor, Nasri and RvP

Liverpool sold Owen, Torres, Alonso and Mascherano

Even United sold Ronaldo and Beckham

Dublin Spur

it's all good - we're all Spurs at the end of the day

I voted with my feet a few years ago and pretty much stopped going, lining the pockets of ENIC is not something I wanted to be involved with. Fair play to those who still make the pilgrimage.

In general, and I'm sure we can all agree:
The game has pretty much sold it's soul, lost it's integrity and lost a lot of traditional supporters in the process. It's just a big money business where the bottom line rules the day not the result on the field. ENIC are a just symptom of the bigger issue.

EazyD

Ormus wrote: »

I've never understood this stuff about us selling our best players.

Berbatov, Carrick, Modric and Bale all insisted on leaving. Could we really have held onto them? I guess in theory we could, but would they have been motivated? Would they have been a positive influence on the squad? I think not. Are we gonna talk about Caulker, Keane and Defoe? I personally don't think it's accurate to call them our best players.

Arsenal sold Fabregas, Henry, Adebayor, Nasri and RvP

Liverpool sold Owen, Torres, Alonso and Mascherano

Even United sold Ronaldo and Beckham

I think there's two ways this works tbh:

(1) Clubs that sell their best on the basis of "financial sense"

(2)Clubs that sell their best with a view to bringing in someone equally as good or even better,

I think the first applies to us!

Ormus

EazyD wrote: »

I think there's two ways this works tbh:

(1) Clubs that sell their best on the basis of "financial sense"

(2)Clubs that sell their best with a view to bringing in someone equally as good or even better,

I think the first applies to us!

Arsenal got in Giroud to replace RvP

Liverpool got Andy Carroll, Lucas and Henderson to replace Torres, Alonso and Mascherano

United got Valencia to replace Ronaldo

No club sells their best players in order to bring in someone equally as good. If that was the case, why sell them in the first place?

Martin567

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I voted with my feet a few years ago and pretty much stopped going, lining the pockets of ENIC is not something I wanted to be involved with.

You keep making this point and it still doesn't make any sense. You talk about ENIC pocketing all of this sponsorship, TV money, gate receipts, etc. All of this money is included as turnover in the club's accounts. The accounts have averaged somewhere around breakeven for the last few years so exactly what money is ENIC supposed to be pocketing? Unless they've been taking massively inflated dividends or salaries then your argument doesn't stack up at all.

Valcin

I don't understand this "we sell our best players" sh!te either. You can't force players to stay for ever if they want to go, it disrupts the team. As someone else said Berbatov, Modric and Bale all wanted to leave. They probably got about 3 times the wages at the clubs they were sold to. We can't compete with that. Thats modern football deal with it. In both the case of Modric and Bale they forced them to stay on an extra year taking a huge risk that they would get injured or lose form, risking losing the ridiculous money on offer. It seemed very ambitious to me because they wanted to use bale to get in to the champions league and then let him go. What more could they do? What players are ye talking about? Totally unrealistic expectations.

Leinstersqspur

Honestly lads, if you don't recognise ENICs ability to sell our best players and not replace them you've got blinkers on...

As has been mentioned in this thread before, we sold our best ever EPL strike partnership and replaced them with Frazer Campbell (on loan) and Roman Pavyluchencko and all from straight under the feet of the first manager to bring us a trophy in years, he who was heralded by ENIC as the man to bring us to the next level.

With Bale we sold potentially our best ever player and essentially speculated on 7 players. Very few of us had heard of any of our summer signings until we were linked (with Eriksen the exception). ENIC buying young potential and selling at peak value, that's the model.

Nobody knows much about our balance sheet, the company is delisted 'to raise capital for the stadium' and the club don't engage very often with the Supporters Trust. We had some good solid years were we've flirted with the big clubs but often we've failed to invest in the team at key stages.

In reality we're probably being primed for a takeover once the outcome of the stadium is clearer. Sadly it's inevitable, the romance is long gone from football. That's the model now, to compete at the top of the EPL you need gas rich Russian money or oil rich Arab money.

ENIC are an investment company. We need to be some rich oligarchs play thing!

White Heart Loon

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

We need to be some rich oligarchs play thing!

Is that what you want? Fcuk that, I'd give up watching football

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

I've never understood this stuff about us selling our best players.

Berbatov, Carrick, Modric and Bale all insisted on leaving. Could we really have held onto them? I guess in theory we could, but would they have been motivated? Would they have been a positive influence on the squad? I think not. Are we gonna talk about Caulker, Keane and Defoe? I personally don't think it's accurate to call them our best players.

Arsenal sold Fabregas, Henry, Adebayor, Nasri and RvP

Liverpool sold Owen, Torres, Alonso and Mascherano

Even United sold Ronaldo and Beckham

Valcin wrote: »

I don't understand this "we sell our best players" sh!te either. You can't force players to stay for ever if they want to go, it disrupts the team. As someone else said Berbatov, Modric and Bale all wanted to leave. They probably got about 3 times the wages at the clubs they were sold to. We can't compete with that. Thats modern football deal with it. In both the case of Modric and Bale they forced them to stay on an extra year taking a huge risk that they would get injured or lose form, risking losing the ridiculous money on offer. It seemed very ambitious to me because they wanted to use bale to get in to the champions league and then let him go. What more could they do? What players are ye talking about? Totally unrealistic expectations.

But if the owners showed more ambition and balls a couple of years ago when we really had a chance to break in to the dominant group, we might still have modric and bale for example, instead of selling them, replacing them with players of less ability and still farting around 5th - 7th.

Ormus

White Heart Loon wrote: »

Is that what you want? Fcuk that, I'd give up watching football

Me too. Might as well watch live Monopoly

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Honestly lads, if you don't recognise ENICs ability to sell our best players and not replace them you've got blinkers on...

As has been mentioned in this thread before, we sold our best ever EPL strike partnership and replaced them with Frazer Campbell (on loan) and Roman Pavyluchencko and all from straight under the feet of the first manager to bring us a trophy in years, he who was heralded by ENIC as the man to bring us to the next level.

With Bale we sold potentially our best ever player and essentially speculated on 7 players. Very few of us had heard of any of our summer signings until we were linked (with Eriksen the exception). ENIC buying young potential and selling at peak value, that's the model.

Nobody knows much about our balance sheet, the company is delisted 'to raise capital for the stadium' and the club don't engage very often with the Supporters Trust. We had some good solid years were we've flirted with the big clubs but often we've failed to invest in the team at key stages.

In reality we're probably being primed for a takeover once the outcome of the stadium is clearer. Sadly it's inevitable, the romance is long gone from football. That's the model now, to compete at the top of the EPL you need gas rich Russian money or oil rich Arab money.

ENIC are an investment company. We need to be some rich oligarchs play thing!

I think you're missing the point. I know that Bale and Modric etc are gone. And I know that their replacements aren't as good.

What I'm saying is that, apart from Real and one or two others, the best players from every club in the world will eventually leave for a bigger gig.

The players who replace them will generally be inferior.

Clubs replace players as best they can, speculate, invest in youth and rebuild.

It's the circle of life in the world of football.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

But if the owners showed more ambition and balls a couple of years ago when we really had a chance to break in to the dominant group, we might still have modric and bale for example, instead of selling them, replacing them with players of less ability and still farting around 5th - 7th.

Modric and Bale went to Real Madrid. There is nothing Tottenham Hotspur could do to be as attractive as Real.

There is 0% chance they would've stayed.

jobeenfitz

Ormus wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. I know that Bale and Modric etc are gone. And I know that their replacements aren't as good.

What I'm saying is that, apart from Real and one or two others, the best players from every club in the world will eventually leave for a bigger gig.

The players who replace them will generally be inferior.

Clubs replace players as best they can, speculate, invest in youth and rebuild.

It's the circle of life in the world of football.

Survival of the biggest fattest wallet?

I don't want Spurs to be a plaything of some sugar daddy but I want us to buy Messi, Aguero, bale and Darren Bent.

Ormus

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Survival of the biggest fattest wallet?

I don't want Spurs to be a plaything of some sugar daddy but I want us to buy Messi, Aguero, bale and Darren Bent.

I'd settle for Messi and Bent

EazyD

Ormus wrote: »

Arsenal got in Giroud to replace RvP

Liverpool got Andy Carroll, Lucas and Henderson to replace Torres, Alonso and Mascherano

United got Valencia to replace Ronaldo

No club sells their best players in order to bring in someone equally as good. If that was the case, why sell them in the first place?

Because as mentioned previously these players couldn't have been forced to stay against their will(and 100m ain't going to be turned down). With that kind of money the club could very well have brought in 3 world class players, instead they saw it best to spread over 7 signings which thus far haven't showed their potential(Soldado:/)

If Spurs want to remain in Top 4 and push for title race in couple of years, they have to move away from the speculative buying and start getting proven world class talent in.

jobeenfitz

Ormus wrote: »

I'd settle for Messi and Bent

Less of this auld settling sh1t, this is makey up, so ya can have antin ya want. Maybe even throw in a beech-house in Malabu? Jesus I nearly forgot, relegation for the gooners.

Wonder could I get this in a pill?

Ormus

EazyD wrote: »

Because as mentioned previously these players couldn't have been forced to stay against their will(and 100m ain't going to be turned down). With that kind of money the club could very well have brought in 3 world class players, instead they saw it best to spread over 7 signings which thus far haven't showed their potential(Soldado:/)

If Spurs want to remain in Top 4 and push for title race in couple of years, they have to move away from the speculative buying and start getting proven world class talent in.

Are you serious?

World class players tend to want to play in the Champions League and be paid 200k a week.

You clearly don't have any grasp of how the transfer market works.

I'm actually slightly surprised we managed to get Soldado. Obviously it hasn't worked out, but he was as high profile a player as we could hope to sign.

Martin567

EazyD wrote: »

If Spurs want to remain in Top 4 and push for title race in couple of years, they have to move away from the speculative buying and start getting proven world class talent in.

Such as? Falcao perhaps, or Cavani?

The problem is that Spurs will be competing against clubs with far greater resources in trying to sign players like that. In order to do the deal, they would have to offer salaries in the region of 300k per week. This is simply not affordable and it would have the knock on effect of breaking the wage structure as all of the other players would want improved contracts.

I don't believe it's possible for Spurs to buy the type of player you refer to above.

Leinstersqspur

White Heart Loon wrote: »

Is that what you want? Fcuk that, I'd give up watching football

Ormus wrote: »

Me too. Might as well watch live Monopoly

I think you both missed my point. Without us receiving serious investment on the back of having a new stadium we will never be consistent top 4 challengers.

I'm not saying that's what I want. No more so than Man City fans wanted it before they were gifted a new stadium by the state and overnight became the richest club in the world.

I'm just saying that's the model of modern day football. As it stands, we will never be able to compete with Man City or Chelsea.

golfball37

ENIC showed their true intentions when they pursued the stadium in Stratford. Their intentions for the club are not in doubt so I don't know why they are been debated.

Its raise the value by moving into a bigger stadium and sell to the highest bidder. Thats their only game plan. Getting CL football is a bonus in the short term where their policy is to buy young players on lowish wages and sell for a song later.

Good business plan for maximising profit of a business but fans of a football club tend to look at a club as more than a business.