Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

mickman

woudlnt be surprised if we have no manager by the end of the season with the way sherwood is making comments about the hierarchy

Im not saying he is wrong but the message coming across is one of a totally disjointed and fractured club with little or no passion or motivation.

Sugarlumps

mickman wrote: »

woudlnt be surprised if we have no manager by the end of the season with the way sherwood is making comments about the hierarchy

Im not saying he is wrong but the message coming across is one of a totally disjointed and fractured club with little or no passion or motivation.

Freund could step in if he got the bullet.

irishmover

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Freund could step in if he got the bullet.

Then Ferdinand maybe when Freund gets sacked with 5 games to go?

Sure we might aswell make a record out of this season.

Sugarlumps

You have to see the funny side of things, I'm too old in the teeth for the mangerial merry go round to really have a devestating effect on my life.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

It's the clubs mentality though. We will never succeed if we continue as we are. And still people say we have to sell Lloris and Vert in the summer, 2 of our best players, Liverpool will be another 15 points ahead of us next season if that's how we do our business.

Oh but if they come out and and do a little moaning to the media, some will say we have no choice and have to sell, ballicks to that. Show some ambition. Keep your best players and improve again in the summer and at least make it look like we want to push forward.

If we have players under contract, we can keep them if we want, but can we keep them happy, motivated and a positive influence on the rest of the squad?

Also, if they refuse to extend their contracts, are they such amazing players that they're worth keeping until they leave on free transfers? Maybe they are, but I'm not so sure. Personally I think Vertonghen is a really good footballer, but as a defender he's average.

Lloris is a great shot stopper but he's an average enough keeper overall.

It's certainly not like these guys have been shining lights this season, clearly playing in a team below their station, doing their best to shoulder the burden of carrying the team.

Ormus

irishmover wrote: »

Then Ferdinand maybe when Freund gets sacked with 5 games to go?

Sure we might aswell make a record out of this season.

We've only changed manager once this season. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

irishmover

Ormus wrote: »

We've only changed manager once this season. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

It was a joke.

Ormus

irishmover wrote: »

It was a joke.

Sorry

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

If we have players under contract, we can keep them if we want, but can we keep them happy, motivated and a positive influence on the rest of the squad?

Also, if they refuse to extend their contracts, are they such amazing players that they're worth keeping until they leave on free transfers? Maybe they are, but I'm not so sure. Personally I think Vertonghen is a really good footballer, but as a defender he's average.

Lloris is a great shot stopper but he's an average enough keeper overall.

It's certainly not like these guys have been shining lights this season, clearly playing in a team below their station, doing their best to shoulder the burden of carrying the team.

It's the clubs job to ensure they are kept happy, motivated and a spositive influence. The manager, Levy, the lot, they run the club, they are responsible. Although with the shambolic way Levy is running the club recently, are you suprised they are questioing things ?

Obviously we wouldn't let the contracts run down, but we need to be keeping them. They are not world beaters, but both are a massive improvement on what we have had over the last few years. King apart, name a better centre half we have had than Vert, and as for the keeper, he's not perfect but again far better than anything we have had for a long time.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

It's the clubs job to ensure they are kept happy, motivated and a spositive influence. The manager, Levy, the lot, they run the club, they are responsible. Although with the shambolic way Levy is running the club recently, are you suprised they are questioing things ?

Obviously we wouldn't let the contracts run down, but we need to be keeping them. They are not world beaters, but both are a massive improvement on what we have had over the last few years. King apart, name a better centre half we have had than Vert, and as for the keeper, he's not perfect but again far better than anything we have had for a long time.

Are they questioning things? I thought they just said that they'd have to consider their options if we didn't make Champions League? Did either of them question how the club is run? Pretty serious if they did, that's not acceptable.

If they won't sign a new contract, how do you stop it running down except by selling them?

I rate Kaboul when fit, ahead of Vert as a defender.

Lloris is maybe the 5th best keeper in the Premiership. He's good and he wouldn't be easy to replace, but not irreplaceable either.

I like them both and want them to stay, but Vertonghen particularly has annoyed me with his noises about leaving, when he's been a contributing factor in our demise.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

Lloris is a great shot stopper but he's an average enough keeper overall.

Ormus wrote: »

Lloris is maybe the 5th best keeper in the Premiership. He's good and he wouldn't be easy to replace, but not irreplaceable either.

Now you're talking out of your arse. Lloris is arguably the best goalkeeper in the Premier League and has the potential to be the best Tottenham goalkeeper of all time, certainly in the Premier League era. Fact.

Sugarlumps

He's a good keeper, his distribution on the other hand is very poor.

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Now you're talking out of your arse. Lloris is arguably the best goalkeeper in the Premier League and has the potential to be the best Tottenham goalkeeper of all time, certainly in the Premier League era. Fact.

Fact? Do you know what a fact is? What you're stating is an opinion.

No need for insults just cos my opinion doesn't match yours.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

Fact? Do you know what a fact is? What you're stating is an opinion.

No need for insults just cos my opinion doesn't match yours.

Just a bit of banter, don't take it so seriously.

I believe I do understand what a fact is, furthermore I have googled and can confirm that "Lloris is arguably the best goalkeeper in the Premier League and has the potential to be the best Tottenham goalkeeper of all time, certainly in the Premier League era"

For arguments sake:

1. Which premier league goal keeper has been better for us?
2. Which current keeper is a better all round keeper?

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Just a bit of banter, don't take it so seriously.

I believe I do understand what a fact is, furthermore I have googled and can confirm that "Lloris is arguably the best goalkeeper in the Premier League and has the potential to be the best Tottenham goalkeeper of all time, certainly in the Premier League era"


For arguments sake:

1. Which premier league goal keeper has been better for us?
2. Which current keeper is a better all round keeper?

I really don't wanna get involved in this debate. I like Hugo. I think he's a deadly keeper. I don't wanna be his detractor on this forum.

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

Are they questioning things? I thought they just said that they'd have to consider their options if we didn't make Champions League? Did either of them question how the club is run? Pretty serious if they did, that's not acceptable.

If they won't sign a new contract, how do you stop it running down except by selling them?

I rate Kaboul when fit, ahead of Vert as a defender.

Lloris is maybe the 5th best keeper in the Premiership. He's good and he wouldn't be easy to replace, but not irreplaceable either.

I like them both and want them to stay, but Vertonghen particularly has annoyed me with his noises about leaving, when he's been a contributing factor in our demise.

I'd be questioning things if I was them, not a snowballs chance of top 4 with nearly 10 games left after spending 100 million, not good enough.
Nout you can do about the contracts but if we were run better and if levy hadn't ballsed up the 100m spending spree, they wouldnt be even considering leaving.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

I'd be questioning things if I was them, not a snowballs chance of top 4 with nearly 10 games left after spending 100 million, not good enough.
Nout you can do about the contracts but if we were run better and if levy hadn't ballsed up the 100m spending spree, they wouldnt be even considering leaving.

Ah right I thought you meant they had come out publicly criticising the club.

We certainly made a mess of the summer spending that's for sure. Baldini should be sacked. In fairness he came with a great reputation and was welcomed by AVB. Did anyone here predict he would mess things up so much? If so I'm impressed.

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

Ah right I thought you meant they had come out publicly criticising the club.

We certainly made a mess of the summer spending that's for sure. Baldini should be sacked. In fairness he came with a great reputation and was welcomed by AVB. Did anyone here predict he would mess things up so much? If so I'm impressed.

Sarcasm, nice.
100m, and not one of them have impressed, not only should baldini be sacked, the man who approved each signing should be also sacked, but yet some will still defend him.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

Sarcasm, nice.
100m, and not one of them have impressed, not only should baldini be sacked, the man who approved each signing should be also sacked, but yet some will still defend him.

I wasn't being sarcastic

Levy isn't a football expert. He hired a respected name to recommend players. Did you condemn Baldini at the time?

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

I wasn't being sarcastic

Levy isn't a football expert. He hired a respected name to recommend players. Did you condemn Baldini at the time?

Who was I to condemn him back then, but look at what they have both done, failed miserably with 100m, does that not warrant being sacked? We have gone backwards.

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

Who was I to condemn him back then, but look at what they have both done, failed miserably with 100m, does that not warrant being sacked? We have gone backwards.

But that's my point, who was anyone to condemn him at the time. His appointment made a lot of sense. Is it fair to be so wise only in hindsight? Not one person here thought Baldini would make such a mess, but now everyone says Levy shoulda known better.

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

But that's my point, who was anyone to condemn him at the time. His appointment made a lot of sense. Is it fair to be so wise only in hindsight? Not one person here thought Baldini would make such a mess, but now everyone says Levy shoulda known better.

I'm not saying he should have known better, what I'm saying is that he should be held responsible. He approves every single signing, player or staff. It's the same in any walk of life, if you fail miserably at your job and it costs the club/company millions, you'd be sacked. Levy has sacked yet another manager, and approved 100m worth of signings last summer, yet here we are in a big mess with our best players making noises about wanting to jump ship having made no progress. He needs to take responsibility for every single part of this situation we find ourselves in.

We laugh at other clubs for sacking so many managers and making changes so often, we are a laughing stock at the moment, and it's down to Mr Levy. If we were a huge success this season and we were 2nd or 3rd he'd be praised, but it's the opposite so he needs to accept that.

irishmover

Our vision of failure and the boards vision of failure might not be the same. For us it's about football and for them it's about money.

Also must remember that Levy and Joe Lewis are partners. Lewis is the majority shareholder yes but Levy is a partner in ENIC/Tavistock group whatever you want to call them.

So really we'd he looking for either Levy to sell his shares and back away (doubtful) or for the club to be bought out (which won't happen for years).

Unfortunate reality is that we can go round in circles about Levy but I'd be surprised if he wasn't the chairman in 3-4-5 years time. I believe we're stuck with him unless there's massive demonstrations outside the ground.

Also Levy never took responsibility for the good times at the club since taking over so why would he take responsibility for the bad? All we ever really get from him is either a public open letter at the end of the season or an update on the new stadium (which is scarce nowadays).

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

I'm not saying he should have known better, what I'm saying is that he should be held responsible. He approves every single signing, player or staff. It's the same in any walk of life, if you fail miserably at your job and it costs the club/company millions, you'd be sacked. Levy has sacked yet another manager, and approved 100m worth of signings last summer, yet here we are in a big mess with our best players making noises about wanting to jump ship having made no progress. He needs to take responsibility for every single part of this situation we find ourselves in.

We laugh at other clubs for sacking so many managers and making changes so often, we are a laughing stock at the moment, and it's down to Mr Levy. If we were a huge success this season and we were 2nd or 3rd he'd be praised, but it's the opposite so he needs to accept that.

But his job is to make good decisions. Just because it turned out badly doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do at the time or that another intelligent person wouldn't have done the exact same thing.

Every good manager and every good chairman has made decisions which have been based on sound logic and judgement, and have turned out disastrously. Baldini certainly comes into that category.

Levy has always been criticised for his decisions throughout his Tottenham career. Ironically the main criticism has been that he hasn't spent all of our revenue from player sales on reinvesting in players. Now people are calling for him to be sacked for wasting all our money on players.

Dublin Spur

we are a car crash of a club at the moment
the players are unhappy, and who could blame them ?
not one of the "magnificent 7" new players started our last game
our club record signing has gone AWOL
we have a plucky but out of his depth unqualified manager in charge
the hammerings at the end of AVB's time are starting again.

how did we get to this place ? and who's to blame ?
the silence is deafening from the boardroom

13 years on, is there a plan ?

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

we are a car crash of a club at the moment
the players are unhappy, and who could blame them ?
not one of the "magnificent 7" new players started our last game
our club record signing has gone AWOL
we have a plucky but out of his depth unqualified manager in charge
the hammerings at the end of AVB's time are starting again.

how did we get to this place ? and who's to blame ?
the silence is deafening from the boardroom

13 years on, is there a plan ?

We lost one of the best players in the world in the summer and the 7 players who came in have been an unmitigated disaster. We have a plucky but out of his depth manager in charge, and we've taken some hammerings from the teams above us.

So we'll be lucky to avoid relegation this season right? Oh look, we're in 5th. Same place we finished last season when we had Bale.

Sack the Board. That's the answer. Nice logic.

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

But his job is to make good decisions. Just because it turned out badly doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do at the time or that another intelligent person wouldn't have done the exact same thing.

Every good manager and every good chairman has made decisions which have been based on sound logic and judgement, and have turned out disastrously. Baldini certainly comes into that category.

Levy has always been criticised for his decisions throughout his Tottenham career. Ironically the main criticism has been that he hasn't spent all of our revenue from player sales on reinvesting in players. Now people are calling for him to be sacked for wasting all our money on players.

We have just sacked another manager. We have just spent 100m and are no better and actually appear to have gone backwards.

Who do you hold responsible for this ?

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

We have just sacked another manager. We have just spent 100m and are no better and actually appear to have gone backwards.

Who do you hold responsible for this ?

We lost the best player in the Premiership in the summer and we're still in 5th.

irishmover

Ormus wrote: »

We lost the best player in the Premiership in the summer and we're still in 5th.

In fairness there is more to it than just that.

It's been a horrible season regardless of if we finish 5th or lower.

Ossie11

Sherwood was bang on saying we haven't a hope of 4th, but he hasn't a clue, he got lucky cause adeybayor fancies playing at the minute, biggest mistake Levy and Joe Lewis have made was sacking the best Tottenham manager since Bill Nicholson, Harry