Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

Ormus

irishmover wrote: »

In fairness there is more to it than just that.

It's been a horrible season regardless of if we finish 5th or lower.

Yep, I agree it's been horrible, we've taken some terrible beatings and we haven't performed well, but we are still in 5th despite it all, and still in Europa.

We had 54 points at this stage last season and the season before. This season we have 53, and have most of our tough fixtures out of the way.

If we could keep Sandro and Kaboul fit and Soldado gets his eye in and Tim's words get a reaction, it ain't over yet.

Big games coming up in the next few weeks. Let's get behind them.

Ormus

Ossie11 wrote: »

Sherwood was bang on saying we haven't a hope of 4th, but he hasn't a clue, he got lucky cause adeybayor fancies playing at the minute, biggest mistake Levy and Joe Lewis have made was sacking the best Tottenham manager since Bill Nicholson, Harry

'Arry dug his own grave.

irishmover

Ormus wrote: »

'Arry dug his own grave.

Yeh I'm fairly sick of hearing how Redknapp being sacked is all Levy's fault.

Redknapp failed the club. He would have left any chairman with no other choice. I do not blame anyone but Redknapp for his sacking.

Ossie11

100% agree will support them no matter what happens. I know a lot have changed but just as it was starting to look as if we were a genuine 'big' club again boardroom antics changed us to what we were 5 years ago, it seemed as if we were maybe 2 or 3 years away from a chance of the title but no we've stepped back 10 years

yiddo59

Ossie11 wrote: »

Sherwood was bang on saying we haven't a hope of 4th, but he hasn't a clue, he got lucky cause adeybayor fancies playing at the minute, biggest mistake Levy and Joe Lewis have made was sacking the best Tottenham manager since Bill Nicholson, Harry

I like Harry. He did well for Spurs but better than Burkinshaw? No way.

But leaving that aside I don't think sacking him was Levy's biggest mistake. His biggest mistake was replacing him with AVB. A guy who'd already failed in the EPL and although he'd been succesfull in Portugal wasn't experienced enough to take things on . Levy should have gone and got a proven top flight manager.

Ormus

Ossie11 wrote: »

100% agree will support them no matter what happens. I know a lot have changed but just as it was starting to look as if we were a genuine 'big' club again boardroom antics changed us to what we were 5 years ago, it seemed as if we were maybe 2 or 3 years away from a chance of the title but no we've stepped back 10 years

Bale lifted us higher than we could've hoped.

When he left we should've just accepted a step backwards, but the Board decided to spend all the money and try keep us moving up. It's backfired.

But I don't agree that we've gone back 10 years. We have one point less than last season.

Our summer signings have been awful so far but at least one or two of them will come good. Eriksen will turn out to be a great signing. Soldado will probably never find his feet here, but it's not impossible. Lamela looks poor so far but then again so did Modric and Bale. Paulinho is a waste of space. Chiriches is decent, not sure he'll be top class though. Capoue is a strange one. Hard to know.

Dublin Spur

we are totally rudderless at the moment
the players are not very interested and our latest fall-guy manager has the hump

we may be 5th now but I can't see us holding onto it. nevermind challenging 4th !
7th is looking like our rightful place is is probabaly where we'll end up.

we are suffering due to a catalogue of diabolical decisions by the chairman.
he is responsible for the sucess of the club - he's good at the money making part but extremely poor at the football end. That why we always make money and very rarely win anything.

But hey, at least we're better now than we were under Alan Sugar !

irishmover

Lamela looked like becoming a world beater at Roma.
Soldado was a world beater at Valencia
Eriksen was a world beater at Ajax
Paulinho has been top notch for Brazil

These players have had the makings of borderline world class players at the club. I was extremely excited when they arrived along with what we already had (Lloris, Vertonghen, Sandro).

I can only fathom what our season would have been like if all those mentioned players were playing anywhere close to their potential and Sandro wasn't so injury prone.

Can't put that down to Levy either. He didn't sign players when we got CL (definitely his fault and deserves criticism). He spends all of the bale cash in the summer and it doesn't pay off. To me it just doesn't seem like this guy is getting a break.

I don't think he's intentionally screwing the club over. Those players had me very very excited about this season, for me I don't think we could have gotten better talent than that.

Dublin Spur

does it not seem like we are just drifting along without any sort of a plan ?
it does to me.

I think DL may have given up, how many times has he started all over again with a new manager ? He must be sick of it my now.

TS will probabaly get the boot in the summer (or earlier) what happens then ?
Another new face with another new plan who will probabaly get another few months before collecting his P45. It's an awful cycle that Levy has created.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

we are totally rudderless at the moment
the players are not very interested and our latest fall-guy manager has the hump

we may be 5th now but I can't see us holding onto it. nevermind challenging 4th !
7th is looking like our rightful place is is probabaly where we'll end up.

we are suffering due to a catalogue of diabolical decisions by the chairman.
he is responsible for the sucess of the club - he's good at the money making part but extremely poor at the football end. That why we always make money and very rarely win anything.

But hey, at least we're better now than we were under Alan Sugar !

Of course he's poor at the football end, he's the bloody chairman.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Of course he's poor at the football end, he's the bloody chairman.

the football end is all that matters to the supporters.

ie the team doing well, scoring goals, winning matches and god forbid wining a trophy every now and then.....

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

the football end is all that matters to the supporters.

ie the team doing well, scoring goals, winning matches and god forbid wining a trophy every now and then.....

Ok well hopefully in the summer we can find a chairman who can manage the football end of things.

Ideally he can fill in at left back too.

yiddo59

Ormus wrote: »

Ok well hopefully in the summer we can find a chairman who can manage the football end of things.

Ideally he can fill in at left back too.

Dave Whelan?

Ormus

yiddo59 wrote: »

Dave Whelan?

Gets up and down well but can't cross to save his life. Should fit in perfectly.

jobeenfitz

Ormus wrote: »

Yep, I agree it's been horrible, we've taken some terrible beatings and we haven't performed well, but we are still in 5th despite it all, and still in Europa.

We had 54 points at this stage last season and the season before. This season we have 53, and have most of our tough fixtures out of the way.

If we could keep Sandro and Kaboul fit and Soldado gets his eye in and Tim's words get a reaction, it ain't over yet.

Big games coming up in the next few weeks. Let's get behind them.

Ya got most of this right, except for maybe one sentence???

Its normal for Spurs fans to overdo the pessimism when things go wrong and overdo the optimism when things go well. I usually overdo the optimism. I backed us to win the league at start of season at 33/1 then again later in season at 80/1. Still havn't thrown away betting slips.

That sentence you have above beginning with "If" is one hell of a big IF even for an optimist like meself.

I do want to believe it's not "over yet" like you said, but I think it probably is.

We are playing well in periods of games but we seem only too ready to fall apart when something goes wrong. I am worried about the visit to Anfield upcoming.

After that we have some very winnable games so we do have an outside chance of getting back on track but only if we beat Arsenal first.

Ormus

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Ya got most of this right, except for maybe one sentence???

Its normal for Spurs fans to overdo the pessimism when things go wrong and overdo the optimism when things go well. I usually overdo the optimism. I backed us to win the league at start of season at 33/1 then again later in season at 80/1. Still havn't thrown away betting slips.

That sentence you have above beginning with "If" is one hell of a big IF even for an optimist like meself.

I do want to believe it's not "over yet" like you said, but I think it probably is.

We are playing well in periods of games but we seem only too ready to fall apart when something goes wrong. I am worried about the visit to Anfield upcoming.

After that we have some very winnable games so we do have an outside chance of getting back on track but only if we beat Arsenal first.

Well they might seem like big ifs, but the two boys are both fit now and they are due some luck from injuries.

Soldado is a proven goalscorer over a good number of seasons in one of the best leagues in the world. He also seems to be a good professional, and he got a goal last week. That can be all it takes sometimes.

Not sure if Tim should have said what he did, but it's bound to have got the players' attention. Hopefully they use it for positive reaction rather than turn on him.

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

We lost the best player in the Premiership in the summer and we're still in 5th.

Yes we lost Bale, but we have spent over 100m, forget where we are in the league, do you think we have improved or gone backwards?

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

Yes we lost Bale, but we have spent over 100m, forget where we are in the league, do you think we have improved or gone backwards?

Yeah but we're Spurs. We may have spent 100m but it was all spent speculatively on players we hoped would become top class, while we lost the best player in the Premiership.

Performances wise we seem worse this year but results wise we've gone backwards by exactly one point.

jobeenfitz

Ormus wrote: »

Yeah but we're Spurs. We may have spent 100m but it was all spent speculatively on players we hoped would become top class, while we lost the best player in the Premiership.

Performances wise we seem worse this year but results wise we've gone backwards by exactly one point.

Your fairly on the button there. It really does feel like we are doing a lot worse this year. I think its the games against City, twice, Pool, Wham and recently chelsea. It has the feel of the old Spurs except with more points.

Dublin Spur

There are over 700 tickets available for Sunday's game on Stub-hub. Tickets for this one are usually like gold dust. This says an awful lot about the fan's feelings as we saunter towards another empty season.

At the same time it's nice to see fans voting with their feet and saying enough is enough. Everyone has a limit to the the amount of ****e they can take.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

There are over 700 tickets available for Sunday's game on Stub-hub. Tickets for this one are usually like gold dust. This says an awful lot about the fan's feelings as we saunter towards another empty season.

At the same time it's nice to see fans voting with their feet and saying enough is enough. Everyone has a limit to the the amount of ****e they can take.

It's bizarre that you take pleasure in that.

Have you ever been an actual Spurs supporter?

You don't support the club under ENIC, but you acknowledge that we were worse under the previous regime. Was there ever a time you supported the club?

Hatch99

Ormus wrote: »

Yeah but we're Spurs. We may have spent 100m but it was all spent speculatively on players we hoped would become top class, while we lost the best player in the Premiership.

Performances wise we seem worse this year but results wise we've gone backwards by exactly one point.

Mate, we're miles behind the clubs above us, we're a laughing stock.

Ormus wrote: »

It's bizarre that you take pleasure in that.

Have you ever been an actual Spurs supporter?

You don't support the club under ENIC, but you acknowledge that we were worse under the previous regime. Was there ever a time you supported the club?

nah he's not a supporter at all

Ormus

Hatch99 wrote: »

Mate, we're miles behind the clubs above us, we're a laughing stock.



nah he's not a supporter at all

Strange statement. We're in 5th. Unlikely to get 4th but it's not beyond the realms. For instance, we're much closer to Arsenal than they were at a similar stage last season. 10 points I think it was at one stage?

Supporters, by definition, support.

irishmover

I suppose there's three main things (that I can see) to be taken into account when looking at our season.

1. How we faired points wise to previous seasons
2. How we progressed compared to progress from other clubs
3. Our performances and results

Thus far the answers are..

1. 1 point behind our tally last season

2. Not even close to the progress of Liverpool, anyone else care to shine light on Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea's progress? i.e. Their points this season compared to last. We don't need to mention Man United as we all know that answer.

3. Never once looked like going to hammer someone and when we did (Newcastle) didn't really look comfortable. Thus far performances and results mostly awful.

It's fair to say that points 2 & 3 significantly outweigh 1.

Unfortunately Ormus as much as I do agree with most of what you say I can't stray away from the fact out performances are awful and compared to the clubs around us we've gone backwards and look to be heading even further backwards. How Everton and Man United are behind us I don't know.

irishmover

Arsenal 12 points better off this season
Liverpool 17 points better off
Chelsea 11 points better off
Man City 4 points better off
Man United -23 points worse off

This is at each clubs respective games played (I.e. Man City 26 games played).

Ormus

irishmover wrote: »

I suppose there's three main things (that I can see) to be taken into account when looking at our season.

1. How we faired points wise to previous seasons
2. How we progressed compared to progress from other clubs
3. Our performances and results

Thus far the answers are..

1. 1 point behind our tally last season

2. Not even close to the progress of Liverpool, anyone else care to shine light on Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea's progress? i.e. Their points this season compared to last. We don't need to mention Man United as we all know that answer.

3. Never once looked like going to hammer someone and when we did (Newcastle) didn't really look comfortable. Thus far performances and results mostly awful.

It's fair to say that points 2 & 3 significantly outweigh 1.

Unfortunately Ormus as much as I do agree with most of what you say I can't stray away from the fact out performances are awful and compared to the clubs around us we've gone backwards and look to be heading even further backwards. How Everton and Man United are behind us I don't know.

That's fair enough. I do agree our performances have been awful. Horrible to watch, even when winning.

I also agree that other teams have progressed more than us, eg Liverpool. On the other hand, United have regressed, so that kinda cancels out.

And we are still in Europa, which wasn't the case last season.

And we had tougher fixtures remaining this time last season.

Look, I agree it's been a bad season. But we've somehow not done as badly results wise as our performances have deserved. If we were to somehow find a bit of form, we could challenge yet. I'm not optimistic of that happening, but just saying that it's not too late.

irishmover

Ormus wrote: »

That's fair enough. I do agree our performances have been awful. Horrible to watch, even when winning.

I also agree that other teams have progressed more than us, eg Liverpool. On the other hand, United have regressed, so that kinda cancels out.

And we are still in Europa, which wasn't the case last season.

And we had tougher fixtures remaining this time last season.

Look, I agree it's been a bad season. But we've somehow not done as badly results wise as our performances have deserved. If we were to somehow find a bit of form, we could challenge yet. I'm not optimistic of that happening, but just saying that it's not too late.

Well I suppose take a look at Arsenals and Chelsea's increase in points this season opposed to last season. It's massive. They' a both had CL to contend with yet were capable of producing an excellent increase in points gained.

Atleast someone on this forum is optimistic, and I hope for good reason too as the majority of people here and I'm sure everywhere else are fairly hurting at the moment.

A win against Arsenal would come at the most crucial time.

Ormus

irishmover wrote: »

Well I suppose take a look at Arsenals and Chelsea's increase in points this season opposed to last season. It's massive. They' a both had CL to contend with yet were capable of producing an excellent increase in points gained.

Atleast someone on this forum is optimistic, and I hope for good reason too as the majority of people here and I'm sure everywhere else are fairly hurting at the moment.

A win against Arsenal would come at the most crucial time.

Ah no, I need to stress, I am far from optimistic. We've been awful and it's hard to imagine us finding form. All I'm saying is that if we do find form we could be ahead of Arsenal by the end of March, ahead of Liverpool and City by the end of April, and then just pip Chelsea at the post.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

It's bizarre that you take pleasure in that.

Have you ever been an actual Spurs supporter?

You don't support the club under ENIC, but you acknowledge that we were worse under the previous regime. Was there ever a time you supported the club?

I take no pleasure in it at all, don't know where you get that from. It just seems to me to be a reflection of many fans feelings towards the club at the moment. Everyone has a breaking point, a lot of folk have reached theirs.

I won't respond to the childish "actual Spurs supporter" question

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Supporters, by definition, support.

Just saw this, it sounds like something from Stalinist Russia

You can love your club and hate the owners at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.

ENIC are the current custodians of the club but they will never own the soul of Tottenham Hotspur, that is owned by the people/supporters.