Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I take no pleasure in it at all, don't know where you get that from. It just seems to me to be a reflection of many fans feelings towards the club at the moment. Everyone has a breaking point, a lot of folk have reached theirs.

I won't respond to the childish "actual Spurs supporter" question

Well you said it was nice to see fans avoiding the game.

What happens at breaking point? Serious question. Do you stop supporting Spurs?

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Well you said it was nice to see fans avoiding the game.

What happens at breaking point? Serious question. Do you stop supporting Spurs?

I don't don't think so, you just take a step back, spend less time and money on them.

I was doing around 20 games a season a few yrs ago, do around 2 now.
ENIC has sucked the life out me. Hopfully I'll be back again when we get owners that put the sucess of the football team first.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Just saw this, it sounds like something from Stalinist Russia

You can love your club and hate the owners at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.

ENIC are the current custodians of the club but they will never own the soul of Tottenham Hotspur, that is owned by the people/supporters.

Ok fair enough. I'm not just out to have a go at you, but it honestly seems that you don't love following Spurs. It seems to just make you pis$ed off and angry. Don't get me wrong, Spurs pi$s me off sometimes too, and have ruined many a day for me, but I do love it and get great entertainment out of supporting them.

Stalin Rules.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I don't don't think so, you just take a step back, spend less time and money on them.

I was doing around 20 games a season a few yrs ago, do around 2 now.
ENIC has sucked the life out me. Hopfully I'll be back again when we get owners that put the sucess of the football team first.

Fair enough.

20 games, that is impressive.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Fair enough.

20 games, that is impressive.

Cheers, good memories

Devo from Dublin

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I don't don't think so, you just take a step back, spend less time and money on them.

I was doing around 20 games a season a few yrs ago, do around 2 now.
ENIC has sucked the life out me. Hopfully I'll be back again when we get owners that put the sucess of the football team first.

Gis a lend will ye bud ??

Dublin Spur

Devo from Dublin wrote: »

Gis a lend will ye bud ??

haha, most trips were sponsored by MBNA

yiddo59

Tottenham fans shouldn't be asking if Tim Sherwood is the boss they need, but whether Daniel Levy is.Chairman's equally baffling transfer policy and managerial changes add up to a somewhat dysfunctional way of running things, writes Andy Dunn

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/andy-dunn-column-tottenham-fans-3246733#ixzz2w4NJkEBV

jobeenfitz

A Man Utd Fan’s Take On Levy & The Perennial Losers, Tottenham
THE MAGIC SPONGE MARCH 17, 2014 0
A Man Utd Fan’s Take On Levy & The Perennial Losers, Tottenham
This cropped up on the Manchester United forum, Red Cafe. It is always interesting to read an informed opinion about a club, when written from the perspective of an outsider.

In my opinion the majority of people who follow football don’t seem to recognize the extent to which a club is limited by it’s financial strength. The fact this thread exist kind of demonstrates that.

Spurs will have the 7th highest wage bill and will finish in the top 7. They will be way behind the other 6 teams in the top 7 in terms of wages and turnover. Yet apparently they are apparently becoming a bit of a joke. They are actually doing perfectly well, in fact possible a bit better than they should be given their size.

The idea that Redknapp had taken them as far as he could seems flawed to me as it suggests another manager could have taken them even further, which when you look at how things are in football these days, that is hugely unlikely.

When you look at the size of their wage bill it would incredibly hard to attract better players. They’ve tried on several occasions to higher “tactical coaches” to bridge the gap, but anyone who still believes in them is deluded if you ask me.

The truth is under Redknapp they over achieved and he was rightly lauded in the media, though this didn’t sit well with lots of football fans as he isn’t popular. Now they are still doing well all things considered. There net transfer spend over the last 5 years is very low and their spending on wages is much lower than the teams above them.

They just don’t have the scale to threaten at the top of the league. You need to be a massive club that can generate a huge income or be owned by wealthy benefactors.

Ultimately Spurs seem to consistently finish top of the also rans, which actually shows how well run they are. Yet due to their relatively large fan base and tradition they manage to somehow keep themselves seemingly relevant in discussions about who is going to win things each season and fight for the top 4.

This makes them look like perennial losers, when if anything, for close to a decade now they have been one of the most effectively run clubs in the world. The truth is Spurs board should be congratulated, but they don’t actually want that.

They’ve got a nice little business model going and it’s very well served by everyone talking about them as failed big club, rather than the truth, which is a very successful mid sized club. Levy and ENIC bought the club for about £30 million and have since gone about turning it into a £300-£400 million club, by keeping their fans believing they are close.

They’ve built a brilliant training facility, have plans for a great stadium which Levy seems to be using every trick in the book to make others pay for and they have consistent European football and flirt with the big boys. But even though between them they are very wealthy, there is no chance Levy and Lewis would do what is needed to give Spurs a real chance of success.

Levy is by far the most intelligent man in football. He’s got a 1st class honours degree from Cambridge for one thing and I doubt anyone else could boast that.

The near perfect correlation between overall spending and success wont have been missed by him. He knows what it really takes to be successful and therefore can’t have any serious expectations. But as long as he keeps people thinking he has and keeps doing the great job he is (and consistent top 6 finished is a great job) and all the while people considering it a failure, then his investment will grow.

Before he took over Spurs were well behind the likes of Leeds, Villa and Newcastle. Now a sponsor would probably pay nearly twice as much to have their names on a Spurs shirt that any of those clubs, or the naming rights for their stadium will go for so much more. Top players actually consider and sometimes sign for Spurs.

Ramos was the most sort after manager in Europe and he went there! LVG probably will go there. Everyone always believes that Spurs are on the brink. They’ve made a brand from it. You look at the growth markets of football around the world and Spurs will have a presence yet no other “also ran” will.

The key to this is that they have convinced everyone they have the potential to go to the next level, when in reality they are doing superbly well to be where they are.

Ormus

jobeenfitz wrote: »

A Man Utd Fan’s Take On Levy & The Perennial Losers, Tottenham
THE MAGIC SPONGE MARCH 17, 2014 0
A Man Utd Fan’s Take On Levy & The Perennial Losers, Tottenham
This cropped up on the Manchester United forum, Red Cafe. It is always interesting to read an informed opinion about a club, when written from the perspective of an outsider.

In my opinion the majority of people who follow football don’t seem to recognize the extent to which a club is limited by it’s financial strength. The fact this thread exist kind of demonstrates that.

Spurs will have the 7th highest wage bill and will finish in the top 7. They will be way behind the other 6 teams in the top 7 in terms of wages and turnover. Yet apparently they are apparently becoming a bit of a joke. They are actually doing perfectly well, in fact possible a bit better than they should be given their size.

The idea that Redknapp had taken them as far as he could seems flawed to me as it suggests another manager could have taken them even further, which when you look at how things are in football these days, that is hugely unlikely.

When you look at the size of their wage bill it would incredibly hard to attract better players. They’ve tried on several occasions to higher “tactical coaches” to bridge the gap, but anyone who still believes in them is deluded if you ask me.

The truth is under Redknapp they over achieved and he was rightly lauded in the media, though this didn’t sit well with lots of football fans as he isn’t popular. Now they are still doing well all things considered. There net transfer spend over the last 5 years is very low and their spending on wages is much lower than the teams above them.

They just don’t have the scale to threaten at the top of the league. You need to be a massive club that can generate a huge income or be owned by wealthy benefactors.

Ultimately Spurs seem to consistently finish top of the also rans, which actually shows how well run they are. Yet due to their relatively large fan base and tradition they manage to somehow keep themselves seemingly relevant in discussions about who is going to win things each season and fight for the top 4.

This makes them look like perennial losers, when if anything, for close to a decade now they have been one of the most effectively run clubs in the world. The truth is Spurs board should be congratulated, but they don’t actually want that.

They’ve got a nice little business model going and it’s very well served by everyone talking about them as failed big club, rather than the truth, which is a very successful mid sized club. Levy and ENIC bought the club for about £30 million and have since gone about turning it into a £300-£400 million club, by keeping their fans believing they are close.

They’ve built a brilliant training facility, have plans for a great stadium which Levy seems to be using every trick in the book to make others pay for and they have consistent European football and flirt with the big boys. But even though between them they are very wealthy, there is no chance Levy and Lewis would do what is needed to give Spurs a real chance of success.

Levy is by far the most intelligent man in football. He’s got a 1st class honours degree from Cambridge for one thing and I doubt anyone else could boast that.

The near perfect correlation between overall spending and success wont have been missed by him. He knows what it really takes to be successful and therefore can’t have any serious expectations. But as long as he keeps people thinking he has and keeps doing the great job he is (and consistent top 6 finished is a great job) and all the while people considering it a failure, then his investment will grow.

Before he took over Spurs were well behind the likes of Leeds, Villa and Newcastle. Now a sponsor would probably pay nearly twice as much to have their names on a Spurs shirt that any of those clubs, or the naming rights for their stadium will go for so much more. Top players actually consider and sometimes sign for Spurs.

Ramos was the most sort after manager in Europe and he went there! LVG probably will go there. Everyone always believes that Spurs are on the brink. They’ve made a brand from it. You look at the growth markets of football around the world and Spurs will have a presence yet no other “also ran” will.

The key to this is that they have convinced everyone they have the potential to go to the next level, when in reality they are doing superbly well to be where they are.

Nicely put. Really doubt the Board are happy to be seen as perennial losers though. I think there is definitely a hope among them that we can become a big club. Last summer's reckless spending spree shows that. They won't jeopardise what we currently have to get there though, thus the refusal to offer big wages.

Dublin Spur

I'm not sure we overachieved under Redknapp. Harry had the likes of Bale, Modric, King, VDV during his tenure. Don't get me wrong, I like Harry and enjoyed most of his time at Spurs but I wouldn't say that our 4th/5th/4th place finishes were a case of Spurs overachieving. We deserved those finishes.

What the club should have done is invest properly to give us the best chance to stay in the top 4 - but they didn't and look what's happened since. We are now a million miles off where we were and it's going to take new owners to put us back in the mix IMO.

While Levy runs the show, we're never getting back to the CL, he's totally inept

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I'm not sure we overachieved under Redknapp. Harry had the likes of Bale, Modric, King, VDV during his tenure. Don't get me wrong, I like Harry and enjoyed most of his time at Spurs but I wouldn't say that our 4th/5th/4th place finishes were a case of Spurs overachieving. We deserved those finishes.

What the club should have done is invest properly to give us the best chance to stay in the top 4 - but they didn't and look what's happened since. We are now a million miles off where we were and it's going to take new owners to put us back in the mix IMO.

While Levy runs the show, we're never getting back to the CL, he's totally inept

I think the article is saying we overachieved because Redknapp had all those players. We can't buy players of that ready made quality (VdV was an exception to the rule) so we got lucky that they were all at the club at the same time.

We've gone backwards this year not because Levy didn't invest enough, but because Baldini was trusted to invest wisely and failed miserably to do so.

irishmover

Got a sense of déjà vu here...

Dublin Spur

and who brought Baldini in ?

The buck stops with Levy and Levy has failed miserably, we are a total shambles thanks to his poor decison making.

I wonder who Tim's repleacement will be and how long he will get before collecting his p45 ?

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

and who brought Baldini in ?

The buck stops with Levy and Levy has failed miserably, we are a total shambles thanks to his poor decison making.

I wonder who Tim's repleacement will be and how long he will get before collecting his p45 ?

Levy and the board brought Baldini in. Did you think Baldini was a disaster when he was brought in? Did anyone here think that? Did anyone in the media think that? Was Baldini underqualified for the job?

The fact is that he looked a good appointment. He was well suited to the job and well qualified and had a great reputation.

Where is the bad decision making?

Dublin Spur

Baldini was a poor appointment - the decision to appoint him has been proved to bad.

From here the usual carry on will follow shortly, Baldini will be sacked, he'll get massive pay out to send him on his way.

Levy will then revert to a traditional system under a new manager until they get sacked. Then Levy will go back to a DOF system again with anther clueless mug + head coach until they get their marching orders after 18 months or so, it's just a load of ****e deja vous over and over again.

Where are we actually going with ENIC ? What's the plan ?

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Baldini was a poor appointment - the decision to appoint him has been proved to bad.

From here the usual carry on will follow shortly, Baldini will be sacked, he'll get massive pay out to send him on his way.

Levy will then revert to a traditional system under a new manager until they get sacked. Then Levy will go back to a DOF system again with anther clueless mug + head coach until they get their marching orders after 18 months or so, it's just a load of ****e deja vous over and over again.

Where are we actually going with ENIC ? What's the plan ?

Are you using anything but hindsight to decide that he was a bad appointment? Do you see the flaw in that? It's impossible to have hindsight until after the fact. That means you can't use hindsight in making a decision.

So again I ask you to point out, without using hindsight, where the decision was bad?

Dublin Spur

you tell me why it was a good decision to hire him.

and think about these questions while your at it:
what did Roma win while Baldini was there ?
how did England get on in the WC when Baldini was involved ?

I fear we're drifting away from the main topic here, the fact that Levy has gotten every appointment wrong bar Harry Redknapp in his 13 years as chariman. Then he sacks Redknapp after Harry delivers another 4th place finish !

Where has all this hiring and firing got us ? How long before TS gets the boot ?. A bigger question is why was a bloke with no managerial experinece given the top job at one of the biggest clubs in england in the first place, was TS a cheap option ? we'll never know.

We're a complete shambles and it's all down to the decisions Levy keeps getting wrong.

It doen't matter if TS is sacked or not this summer (I think he will be by the way), because no matter who comes in, they will have to work with an impossible chairman and will come a cropper in the end (normally after 18 mths) leaving us back at square one.

Levy is the only common deniominator in all of this cr@p. He's the biggest problem at the club.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

you tell me why it was a good decision to hire him.

and think about these questions while your at it:
what did Roma win while Baldini was there ?
how did England get on in the WC when Baldini was involved ?

I fear we're drifting away from the main topic here, the fact that Levy has gotten every appointment wrong bar Harry Redknapp in his 13 years as chariman. Then he sacks Redknapp after Harry delivers another 4th place finish !

Where has all this hiring and firing got us ? How long before TS gets the boot ?. A bigger question is why was a bloke with no managerial experinece given the top job at one of the biggest clubs in england in the first place, was TS a cheap option ? we'll never know.

We're a complete shambles and it's all down to the decisions Levy keeps getting wrong.

It doen't matter if TS is sacked or not this summer (I think he will be by the way), because no matter who comes in, they will have to work with an impossible chairman and will come a cropper in the end (normally after 18 mths) leaving us back at square one.

Levy is the only common deniominator in all of this cr@p. He's the biggest problem at the club.

Ok well can you point to me where on Boards you condemned Baldini's appointment when it happened? If you can, I'll completely accept that you're not just using hindsight to seem wise.

Do we really have to go into the reasons why Redknapp was sacked again? Really?

I agree with you on TS. Levy basically decided that he couldn't get the long term manager that he wanted at short notice, so he'd get a stopgap for the rest of the season rather than give a big contract to someone he didn't want. It was a dodgy decision at the time (ie not only in hindsight) and it looks even worse now.

Dublin Spur

I think we've exausted all the angles Ormus
I don't think there's anything more to add
Some will be happy with ENIC and some won't
It doen't really make any difference either way
Looking forward to the end of this awful season
Lets see what happens in the summer
Never a dull moment at Spurs !

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I think we've exausted all the angles Ormus
I don't think there's anything more to add
Some will be happy with ENIC and some won't
It doen't really make any difference either way
Looking forward to the end of this awful season
Lets see what happens in the summer
Never a dull moment at Spurs !

Amen to that!

Leinstersqspur

Judging by our revolving door policy with managers would Levy still be running the club if he didn't own 30%? He's made numerous poor appointments, in hindsight;)

Jason 5pu45

It was an awful decision to appoint any technical director no matter who it was.Levy did it with Pleat,Arnesen and the disastrous Commoli.Baldini has proven even more disastrous.I don't blame him-I blame the person responsible for giving him the power.

Did Utd,arsenal or Chelsea,the 3 most successful clubs of the premiership era ever have a guy buying players without the managers approval??I doubt it.

We have let a huge opportunity slip by this year.
The worst utd team in 25 years,an arsenal team poorer than last year and a Chelsea team that are nowhere near the team from mourinhos first spell and we still can't get top 4.

A Liverpool team that is practically the same Liverpool team that we finished 11 points ahead of last year is going to finish the same or more ahead of us this year.

If that is not the fault of the board and their ridiculous transfer policy-I don't know what is

Ormus

Jason 5pu45 wrote: »

It was an awful decision to appoint any technical director no matter who it was.Levy did it with Pleat,Arnesen and the disastrous Commoli.Baldini has proven even more disastrous.I don't blame him-I blame the person responsible for giving him the power.

Did Utd,arsenal or Chelsea,the 3 most successful clubs of the premiership era ever have a guy buying players without the managers approval??I doubt it.

We have let a huge opportunity slip by this year.
The worst utd team in 25 years,an arsenal team poorer than last year and a Chelsea team that are nowhere near the team from mourinhos first spell and we still can't get top 4.

A Liverpool team that is practically the same Liverpool team that we finished 11 points ahead of last year is going to finish the same or more ahead of us this year.

If that is not the fault of the board and their ridiculous transfer policy-I don't know what is

Chelsea have had a similar transfer policy to Spurs for a long time now. Arsenal and United are exceptional clubs continuity wise. Freak occurrences there is no denying.

Not sure how you figure Arsenal are poorer than last year. They're much improved.

Liverpool have also improved a lot. Strange statements.

Neither of them lost their best player in the summer.

Jason 5pu45

Ormus wrote: »

Chelsea have had a similar transfer policy to Spurs for a long time now. Arsenal and United are exceptional clubs continuity wise. Freak occurrences there is no denying.

Not sure how you figure Arsenal are poorer than last year. They're much improved.

Liverpool have also improved a lot. Strange statements.

Neither of them lost their best player in the summer.

Nobody in Chelsea is telling Jose who to buy.

I could concur that maybe Arsenal aren't poorer but they have shipped heavy beatings this year and they have had a lot of injury problems.

I never said Liverpool haven't improved but I said a Liverpool team which has practically the same starting 11 as last season has overturned an 11 point deficit on us in less than a season.

And on the subject of strange statements-neither of them"lost" their best player??

Don't you mean "sold" their best player??

Liverpool dug their heels in with Suarez because John Henry knows you don't sell your greatest asset,something lost on Daniel Levy

pleasant Co.

Jason 5pu45 wrote: »

Liverpool dug their heels in with Suarez because John Henry knows you don't sell your greatest asset,something lost on Daniel Levy

John Henry wasn't offered £85million. There are literally only a handful of clubs that would turn down such a gargantuan offer and Liverpool ain't one of 'em.

Ormus

Jason 5pu45 wrote: »

Nobody in Chelsea is telling Jose who to buy.

I could concur that maybe Arsenal aren't poorer but they have shipped heavy beatings this year and they have had a lot of injury problems.

I never said Liverpool haven't improved but I said a Liverpool team which has practically the same starting 11 as last season has overturned an 11 point deficit on us in less than a season.

And on the subject of strange statements-neither of them"lost" their best player??

Don't you mean "sold" their best player??

Liverpool dug their heels in with Suarez because John Henry knows you don't sell your greatest asset,something lost on Daniel Levy

Well I know that Shevchenko was bought against Jose's wishes years ago. I know that the likes of Grant and Benitez had next to zero say on transfers. So your statement that it never happens at Chelsea clearly doesn't hold water.

Arsenal and Liverpool are far superior to last year and in neither case has it much to do with their transfer policy. Their improvements have been largely internal.

It's not strange to say we lost our best player. Regardless of the fact that he was sold, he was a major loss to us.

Don't believe the guff in the papers about Henry standing firm in his stance. Suarez stayed because Real didn't follow through on their interest. Also, if Arsenal had bid 80m for him, Henry would've driven him to London wrapped in a chew-resistant bow.

You don't sell your greatest asset? Is that why United sold Ronaldo? Is that why Arsenal sold RVP, Fabregas and Henry? Is that why every club in the world bar about 3 is eventually always forced to sell if one of the big boys refuse to take no for an answer.

Jason 5pu45

Ormus wrote: »

Well I know that Shevchenko was bought against Jose's wishes years ago. I know that the likes of Grant and Benitez had next to zero say on transfers. So your statement that it never happens at Chelsea clearly doesn't hold water.

Arsenal and Liverpool are far superior to last year and in neither case has it much to do with their transfer policy. Their improvements have been largely internal.

It's not strange to say we lost our best player. Regardless of the fact that he was sold, he was a major loss to us.

Don't believe the guff in the papers about Henry standing firm in his stance. Suarez stayed because Real didn't follow through on their interest. Also, if Arsenal had bid 80m for him, Henry would've driven him to London wrapped in a chew-resistant bow.

You don't sell your greatest asset? Is that why United sold Ronaldo? Is that why Arsenal sold RVP, Fabregas and Henry? Is that why every club in the world bar about 3 is eventually always forced to sell if one of the big boys refuse to take no for an answer.

You have no basis to suggest that John Henry would have drove Suarez to Arsenal.That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Arsenal sold those players to pay for a state of the art 60 000 all seater stadium almost double our capacity.

And as for utd selling Ronaldo I think you'll find they got a lot of trophies out of Ronaldo before cashing in.Different thing altogether.

We all have our ways of looking at things.

I see a lot of empty seats at the Lane this morning

Ormus

Jason 5pu45 wrote: »

You have no basis to suggest that John Henry would have drove Suarez to Arsenal.That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Arsenal sold those players to pay for a state of the art 60 000 all seater stadium almost double our capacity.

And as for utd selling Ronaldo I think you'll find they got a lot of trophies out of Ronaldo before cashing in.Different thing altogether.

We all have our ways of looking at things.

I see a lot of empty seats at the Lane this morning

Fair enough, it is just an opinion, albeit a widely held one.

Arsenal sold those players because they couldn't keep them. If a player wants to leave enough he will leave. It ALWAYS happens. I can't believe some people still haven't noticed that.

KingdomYid

Ormus wrote: »

Fair enough, it is just an opinion, albeit a widely held one.

Arsenal sold those players because they couldn't keep them. If a player wants to leave enough he will leave. It ALWAYS happens. I can't believe some people still haven't noticed that.

Of course it happens, but does not mean we are not going to be seriously pissed off at it.