Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

2nd Row Donkey

Ormus wrote: »

6 managers sacked in 13 years

You say that like its a good thing ?!?!;?

irishmover

same ol sh1te wrote: »

This must be lap 5?

In the last 6 months probably lap 5. In the last three years? Probably lap 55!

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

You say that like its a good thing ?!?!;?

Not at all. It's a very average thing though.

Ormus

same ol sh1te wrote: »

This must be lap 5?

Tell me about it.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

Ha caretaker managers are only in charge until a manager is appointed. You know that.

They're by definition only there on an interim basis.

You're trying to show that Levy can't help hiring and firing managers. Caretakers have nothing to do with that. They're clearly not examples of that. You're killing your own point.

Jeez man, did you even read my post or just opt for the argue first read later approach?

I said APPOINTMENTS, that includes caretakers as I've clearly indicated (with a 'c'). The number of caretakers is equally important (in my opinion) because they show Levy's tendancy to chop the manager during the season and disrupt the whole club. Pleat was in charge for almost a full season after Hoddle got fired six games in.

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Jeez man, did you even read my post or just opt for the argue first read later approach?

I said APPOINTMENTS, that includes caretakers as I've clearly indicated (with a 'c'). The number of caretakers is equally important (in my opinion) because they show Levy's tendancy to chop the manager during the season and disrupt the whole club. Pleat was in charge for almost a full season after Hoddle got fired six games in.

I think I read your post more carefully than you did yourself. You seem confused. Of course I noticed that you used the word appointments. It was a clumsy attempt to skew the figures. But you're shooting yourself in the foot cos we all know that caretaker managers aren't proper appointments. They're not examples of chopping and changing cos they were never intended to be full time in the first place. The clue is in the name CARETAKER. Do we have to go over this again?

By the way, going by your way of counting, we had 11 APPOINTMENTS in 11 years from 87 to 98 before ENIC took over.

Sugarlumps

yiddo59

Enic/Levy have done a better job than Sugar. No bout bout that but they took over in 2001 so they've had the credit for being better than him. At this stage it's a bit like Crouch being better than Harry Kane. Levy has taken the club as far as he can and they'll be no further progress until we get new owners. I know a lot of you won't agree but we need to a Russian or an Arab billionaire to move us on. The trouble is that won't happen til we get a bigger stadium and I can't see that happening anytime under the current regime.

gar

Sugarlumps wrote: »

I hate when mom and dad fight!!

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

I think I read your post more carefully than you did yourself. You seem confused. Of course I noticed that you used the word appointments. It was a clumsy attempt to skew the figures. But you're shooting yourself in the foot cos we all know that caretaker managers aren't proper appointments. They're not examples of chopping and changing cos they were never intended to be full time in the first place. The clue is in the name CARETAKER. Do we have to go over this again?

By the way, going by your way of counting, we had 11 APPOINTMENTS in 11 years from 87 to 98 before ENIC took over.

Honestly man, give it a rest, it's becoming tedious at best. I am not confused and did not skew figures. I said appointments and that included caretakers. No more, no less. In my opinion Pleat taking over six games into a season is a prime example of ENIC pushing the panic button.

If you continue to feel the need to misinterpret what I've said and patronise me, please don't, for the good of everyones health.

Dublin Spur

levy out

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Honestly man, give it a rest, it's becoming tedious at best. I am not confused and did not skew figures. I said appointments and that included caretakers. No more, no less. In my opinion Pleat taking over six games into a season is a prime example of ENIC pushing the panic button.

If you continue to feel the need to misinterpret what I've said and patronise me, please don't, for the good of everyones health.

Firing a manager and replacing him with another manager is an example of chopping and changing.

Having a caretaker manager in between is not.

You used the caretaker managers to make it seem like there had been more chopping and changing than there was.

I'm not misinterpreting you. It's clear what you're trying to do.

Dublin Spur

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/daniel-levy-the-directors-and-management-of-tottenham-hotspur-football-club-this-petition-is-intended-as-an-expression-of-our-lack-of-confidence-in-enic-daniel-levy-s-day-to-day-management-of-thfc?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_mobile&recruiter=28567770

Petitioning Daniel Levy the Directors and Management of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club 2This petition will be delivered to:
Daniel Levy the Directors and Management of Tottenham Hotspur Football ClubThis petition is intended as an expression of our lack of confidence in ENIC & Daniel Levy’s day to day management of THFC


Petition by

@e_spurs
Multiply your impactTurn your signature into dozens more by sharing this petition and recruiting people you know to sign.YOUYOUR
FRIENDS170avg.THEIR
FRIENDS10,000approx.

---

Express your lack of confidence in ENIC & Daniel Levy’s day to day management of THFC

In ENIC’s 13 year tenure, “THFC the business” has been run adequately, but at the cost of “THFC the football team.”

This is evidenced in two immediate ways; the continuous selling of our best players and the inability to recruit and as crucially, support in a genuinely effective manner, the right manager.

Other ongoing issues:

StubHub: A device encouraging fans to rip each other off, as well as provide ENIC with data as to what “the market” will stand for future ticket price increases.

The Y Word: ENIC issued banning orders upon fans (that it encouraged the police to arrest) before trial. The case was dismissed. The reputations of 3 ordinary fans were stamped upon.

Managers: 10 managers in 13 years. When does it stop being the employee’s fault and start being the recruiter’s?

Selling Club: Across the top 5 global football leagues, THFC are top when it comes to selling to rivals in those top 5 leagues. A business 1st; a football team 2nd.

Autonomy & Micro-managing: The spending of £100m+ in the August 2013 smacked of an inability to trust and invest in a manager. No club in the history of football has bought so many players at once and succeeded.

DoF: A system that has systematically failed in the EPL, yet one ENIC appear obsessed in adopting, despite all the evidence.

Football and business are not mutually exclusive entities. In 2014, they cannot afford to be.

We believe that if the recent examples of both LFC (in relation to Suarez) and MUFC (in relation to Rooney) had been mirrored; in relation to retaining the services of their best players, then the integrity of Spurs would have been equally protected and enhanced.

ENIC have had over a decade in which to excel, supported by a significant fan base. So far we have a League Cup win, a training ground and a Sainsbury’s.

The alternative to failing to achieve a top 4 spot, is not “to do a Leeds.” Spurs need an investor that can apply business acumen in a manner whereby the football is on a par with the Profit & Loss columns.

We are not walking wallets, we are the lifeblood

Ormus

It's actually pretty funny that people still think we willingly sell our best players.

It's like believing in the boogeyman. Open your eyes. Take a look at the world.

Dublin Spur

go on Ormus, sign it,

you know you want to

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

go on Ormus, sign it,

you know you want to

:pac:

I wanna scribble all over it

Hammar

Ormus wrote: »

It's actually pretty funny that people still think we willingly sell our best players.

It's like believing in the boogeyman. Open your eyes. Take a look at the world.

Did Liverpool sell Luis Suarez when he wanted to leave last summer?
Did United allow Rooney to walk away when he became unsettled?
Gareth Bale wasn't out of contract or even coming into the last year of his contract,he had signed a 4 year contract in June 2012,so he was under contract until 2016.
So kindly tell us what forced us to sell our only genuinely world-class player?

h2005

Hammar wrote: »

Did Liverpool sell Luis Suarez when he wanted to leave last summer?
Did United allow Rooney to walk away when he became unsettled?
Gareth Bale wasn't out of contract or even coming into the last year of his contract,he had signed a 4 year contract in June 2012,so he was under contract until 2016.
So kindly tell us what forced us to sell our only genuinely world-class player?

To be fair Bale went for twice what was offered for Suarez. Also when comparing Liverpool and Man United to us you`re not comparing like with like. They're far bigger clubs with greater resources.

Ormus

Hammar wrote: »

Did Liverpool sell Luis Suarez when he wanted to leave last summer?
Did United allow Rooney to walk away when he became unsettled?
Gareth Bale wasn't out of contract or even coming into the last year of his contract,he had signed a 4 year contract in June 2012,so he was under contract until 2016.
So kindly tell us what forced us to sell our only genuinely world-class player?

We've been over this so many times, I can barely summon the energy to do so again.

Put simply, when Real Madrid want a player enough, they get him, unless he plays for Barcelona or Bayern.

Legally a club can still keep a player, but he won't be the same player. Head not in the right place, refusing to train, disrupting the squad, booed by fans etc etc, followed by him being sold to Real the following summer for a knock down price.

You can apply the same example to a lesser extent to any other big club which sets its sights on a player from a smaller club.

Real didn't want Suarez enough to bid 40m let alone 85m. They certainly didn't want Rooney enough either.

Left Back on the Bench

Hammar wrote: »

Did Liverpool sell Luis Suarez when he wanted to leave last summer?
Did United allow Rooney to walk away when he became unsettled?
Gareth Bale wasn't out of contract or even coming into the last year of his contract,he had signed a 4 year contract in June 2012,so he was uder contract until 2016.
So kindly tell us what forced us to sell our only genuinely world-class player?

If Madrid bid €100 million for suarez this summer do you think he'll stay? Not a hope. It's like people saying over in the summer transfer thread. We're trying to sign players from southampton or Swansea. Or at least we should be. Players who stand out at those clubs and with better players around them would improve

jobeenfitz

Ormus wrote: »

We've been over this so many times, I can barely summon the energy to do so again.

Put simply, when Real Madrid want a player enough, they get him, unless he plays for Barcelona or Bayern.

Legally a club can still keep a player, but he won't be the same player. Head not in the right place, refusing to train, disrupting the squad, booed by fans etc etc, followed by him being sold to Real the following summer for a knock down price.

You can apply the same example to a lesser extent to any other big club which sets its sights on a player from a smaller club.

Real didn't want Suarez enough to bid 40m let alone 85m. They certainly didn't want Rooney enough either.

Ormus, I fear you will have to go over this again and again. The people want a head to satisfy their anger, sadness, ego or a combination. Spurs have recently played in CL and have gotten close regularly. Now we the fans expect more, nothing wrong there. Some fans are unrealistically demanding more as if we are one of the very top sides who are under-achieving.

I want more from spurs than I have seen this season. I want levy to get it right with the next manager. I also realise that he may appoint a very good manager and it may not work out. I do not want levy or Lewis out, Iv been on this planet long enough to remember when Spurs were constantly dire.

Anybody who thinks we had a serious chance of holding onto Bale this season is delusional imo.

So Ormus I think you may be wasting your time as I feel the mob have already decided.

Ormus

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Ormus, I fear you will have to go over this again and again. The people want a head to satisfy their anger, sadness, ego or a combination. Spurs have recently played in CL and have gotten close regularly. Now we the fans expect more, nothing wrong there. Some fans are unrealistically demanding more as if we are one of the very top sides who are under-achieving.

I want more from spurs than I have seen this season. I want levy to get it right with the next manager. I also realise that he may appoint a very good manager and it may not work out. I do not want levy or Lewis out, Iv been on this planet long enough to remember when Spurs were constantly dire.

Anybody who thinks we had a serious chance of holding onto Bale this season is delusional imo.

So Ormus I think you may be wasting your time as I feel the mob have already decided.

You're a wise man Jo. I guess in my heart I've know this for quite a while. I can't bring myself to abandon fellow Spurs fans to the dark side though.

mickman

ye guys need to get busier jobs ;-)

Left Back on the Bench

Hammar wrote: »

Did Liverpool sell Luis Suarez when he wanted to leave last summer?
Did United allow Rooney to walk away when he became unsettled?
Gareth Bale wasn't out of contract or even coming into the last year of his contract,he had signed a 4 year contract in June 2012,so he was uder contract until 2016.
So kindly tell us what forced us to sell our only genuinely world-class player?

If Madrid bid €100 million for suarez this summer do you think he'll stay? Not a hope. It's like people saying over in the summer transfer thread. We're trying to sign players from southampton or Swansea. Or at least we should be. Players who stand out at those clubs and with better players around them would improve

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Legally a club can still keep a player, but he won't be the same player. Head not in the right place, refusing to train, disrupting the squad, booed by fans etc etc, followed by him being sold to Real the following summer for a knock down price.

I don't follow this logic, remember when we didn't sell Modric first time around (2011) to Chelsea, he just got on with it had had a great season for Spurs. We should have done the same with Carrick, Berba and Bale.

Would a player risk the chance that their sulking could end up with them playing in the reserves thus ruining the chances of playing at a bigger club some day and runing their international career ? I don't think so.

Pity ENIC don't call their bluff more often like they did with Luca

Hammar

Ormus wrote: »

We've been over this so many times, I can barely summon the energy to do so again.

Put simply, when Real Madrid want a player enough, they get him, unless he plays for Barcelona or Bayern.

Legally a club can still keep a player, but he won't be the same player. Head not in the right place, refusing to train, disrupting the squad, booed by fans etc etc, followed by him being sold to Real the following summer for a knock down price.

You can apply the same example to a lesser extent to any other big club which sets its sights on a player from a smaller club.

Real didn't want Suarez enough to bid 40m let alone 85m. They certainly didn't want Rooney enough either.

So in essence you have nothing. Spurs had Bale under contract until 2016. They weren't forced to sell him and the bolded part is all conjecture and speculation on what you believed might happen.

He could just have easily bucked down after a short time and performed even better for Spurs this season if he had been kept.

Arsenal triggered Suarez's release clause and he wanted to leave,

According to John W Henry, speaking at the Sloan Sports Analytics conference in America, suggested there was slightly more to it than that.
He said: "Luis Suarez is the top scorer in the English Premier League, which is arguably the top soccer league in the world.
"He had a buyout clause of £40m. Arsenal, one of our prime rivals – this year we’re tied for second ... we’re actually second because of goal difference.
"They offered £40m plus £1. What we’ve found ... is that contracts don’t seem to mean a lot in England – actually, in world football.
"It doesn’t matter how long a player’s contract is, he can decide he’s leaving.
"We sold a player, Fernando Torres, for £50m, that we did not want to sell, we were forced to.
"Since apparently these contracts don’t seem to hold, we took the position that we’re just not selling.


Contrast that position to Levy and co allowing Bale to walk.

You and your fellow ENIC cheerleaders seem to think that those of us whom are unhappy with Levy and co have fanciful ideas that Spurs should be beating Bayern,Real Madrid and Barca regularly, and winning back tp back Premier league titles on a consistent basis.


We don't, we are not expecting Spurs to sign the Lahms/Ibrahimovic's/Neymars of this world,because we just do not have the finances or the reputation to attract those players,however when we sign a young player and turn him into a genuine world class player like we did with Bale,for Spurs to improve, we have to build a team around him,not sell him when the first giant of world football comes knocking.


Any Spurs fan whom is happy with this chirade of buying players and selling them off for a big profit once they show quality deserves the type of mediocrity that this season has brought.

same ol sh1te

Do you honestly think John W Henry had any say in the sale of Suarez once the buy out clause had been reached, nonsense, the player and his agent didn't want Arsenal. It would be a completely different story if it was Real or Barca

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I don't follow this logic, remember when we didn't sell Modric first time around (2011) to Chelsea, he just got on with it had had a great season for Spurs. We should have done the same with Carrick, Berba and Bale.

Would a player risk the chance that their sulking could end up with them playing in the reserves thus ruining the chances of playing at a bigger club some day and runing their international career ? I don't think so.

Pity ENIC don't call their bluff more often like they did with Luca

Chelsea bid 40m for Luka. We eventually sold him for closer to 30m.

He also messed up our start to the season cos his head wasn't in the right place and he had to be left out and we made a bad start amid rumours of the squad being disrupted.

pleasant Co.

All we can go on are the facts.

Liverpool refused to sell to Arsenal @~£;40million, no one bid higher.

Tottenham did sell to Real Madrid @~£;85million. A world record fee.

There's quite a difference in value there, there really aren't many clubs in the world who could turn down that money - IMO.

Ormus

Hammar wrote: »

So in essence you have nothing. Spurs had Bale under contract until 2016. They weren't forced to sell him and the bolded part is all conjecture and speculation on what you believed might happen.

He could just have easily bucked down after a short time and performed even better for Spurs this season if he had been kept.

Arsenal triggered Suarez's release clause and he wanted to leave,

According to John W Henry, speaking at the Sloan Sports Analytics conference in America, suggested there was slightly more to it than that.
He said: "Luis Suarez is the top scorer in the English Premier League, which is arguably the top soccer league in the world.
"He had a buyout clause of £40m. Arsenal, one of our prime rivals – this year we’re tied for second ... we’re actually second because of goal difference.
"They offered £40m plus £1. What we’ve found ... is that contracts don’t seem to mean a lot in England – actually, in world football.
"It doesn’t matter how long a player’s contract is, he can decide he’s leaving.
"We sold a player, Fernando Torres, for £50m, that we did not want to sell, we were forced to.
"Since apparently these contracts don’t seem to hold, we took the position that we’re just not selling.


Contrast that position to Levy and co allowing Bale to walk.

You and your fellow ENIC cheerleaders seem to think that those of us whom are unhappy with Levy and co have fanciful ideas that Spurs should be beating Bayern,Real Madrid and Barca regularly, and winning back tp back Premier league titles on a consistent basis.


We don't, we are not expecting Spurs to sign the Lahms/Ibrahimovic's/Neymars of this world,because we just do not have the finances or the reputation to attract those players,however when we sign a young player and turn him into a genuine world class player like we did with Bale,for Spurs to improve, we have to build a team around him,not sell him when the first giant of world football comes knocking.


Any Spurs fan whom is happy with this chirade of buying players and selling them off for a big profit once they show quality deserves the type of mediocrity that this season has brought.

It's not conjecture or speculation. Berbatov went on strike, Modric couldn't play cos his head wasn't in the right place, Bale refused to train. How do people not remember this?

Suarez wanted to go to Madrid. But they didn't go for him. That's the ONLY reason he is still with Liverpool. Trust me on that. John Henry of course paints it as him standing firm against the might of Arsenal. But that is not the reality of the situation.

The rest of your message is some kind of fantasy about us beating Barca and signing Lahm? I honestly don't know where this comes from. I've never even vaguely suggested that and I haven't noticed anyone else on this forum suggesting it either.