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Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

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    #1142
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    SuprSi wrote: »
    But Aston Villa have spent £40m more than us over the last 5 years!!

    What? no they haven't, it's not even close!


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    #1143
    SuprSi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    pleasant Co. wrote: »
    What? no they haven't, it's not even close!

    Afraid it is... (speaking after ingoings/outgoings)

    # Net Spend last 5 Years Purchased Gross Sold Nett Per Season
    12 Aston Villa £95,650,000 £71,750,000 £23,900,000 £4,780,000
    20 Tottenham £209,950,000 £231,300,000 -£21,350,000 -£4,270,000


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    #1144
    SuprSi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    That doesn't work. Spend over 5 years for Villa is £23m, for Spurs it's -£21m


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    #1145
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭slegs


    Net spend means shag all. Being bottom of that stupid table means we are run well as a business which is a good thing

    Purchased is all that matters and we are one of the highest in that table

    What do people think losing money as a club is a good thing or a sign of positive investment?


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    #1146
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    SuprSi wrote: »
    Afraid it is... (speaking after ingoings/outgoings)

    12 Aston Villa £95,650,000 £71,750,000 £23,900,000 £4,780,000

    20 Tottenham £209,950,000 £231,300,000 -£21,350,000 -£4,270,000

    No, it's not.

    We have spent shy of £210mil, they have spent shy of £100mil, those are the figures for transfer expenditure, those are the figures for what we have spent and what they have spent.


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    #1147
    SuprSi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    True, I was referring to net spend but didn't make that clear.


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    #1148
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭slegs


    Would hate to have some of you lot involved in any business I was part of if you think losing money is good thing


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    #1149
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    Cheers Hatch for starting the next round of the ENIC/Levy/Lewis debate.....


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    #1150
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    I am glad we have someone like levy who can get value when buying and selling players. Wouldn't mind if they spent a bit more on a top striker though! We havn't had one since Berbie. Thought Soldado was going to be a top signing last year, not to be so far?


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    #1151
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    jobeenfitz wrote: »
    I am glad we have someone like levy who can get value when buying and selling players. Wouldn't mind if they spent a bit more on a top striker though! We havn't had one since Berbie. Thought Soldado was going to be a top signing last year, not to be so far?

    They spent the money on Soldado and Lamela. Failed miserably in the first year but the money was spent.


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    #1152
    Hatch99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,395 ✭✭✭Hatch99


    irishmover wrote: »
    Cheers Hatch for starting the next round of the ENIC/Levy/Lewis debate.....

    It was getting too quiet around here :)


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    #1153
    Dublin Spur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    same ol sh1te wrote: »
    Maybe you should go and support Chelsea or City. Show me a club owner or business other than them two that are in it for the glory and not for the money

    Our owners make profits on transfers, keep the TV and other commercial revenue for themselves, while Spurs win nothing year after year and you think I should go a support another club because I don't agree with this ?

    Open your eyes you clown for fcuks sake


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    #1154
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    Our owners make profits on transfers, keep the TV and other commercial revenue for themselves, while Spurs win nothing year after year and you think I should go a support another club because I don't agree with this ?

    Open your eyes you clown for fcuks sake

    Can you show any accounts that support that opinion ? Does our end of year accounts show these drawings ? Genuine question.


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    #1155
    Dublin Spur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    Pacing Mule wrote: »
    Can you show any accounts that support that opinion ? Does our end of year accounts show these drawings ? Genuine question.

    Record TV money, record sponsorship deal (both club and kit).

    This ENIC crowd are chancers, they're making a fortune while the team wins nothing, 1 trophy in 15years (13 of those years are under ENIC).


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    #1156
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    Record TV money, record sponsorship deal (both club and kit).

    This ENIC crowd are chancers, they're making a fortune while the team wins nothing, 1 trophy in 15years (13 of those years are under ENIC).

    But again my question is where is the proof that they are making a fortune ?

    Record income could be balanced with record expenditure. Does our club accounts show that this record tv income is not being spent within the club and is being withdrawn by ENIC ? Or do they show that the income is being spent on higher expenditure / improvements within the club ?


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    #1157
    Valcin
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Valcin


    That table just simplifies the whole argument. We got 80 million for bale last year. That is an unheard of figure to get for a player. That is the single most reason why we are bottom of the table. It's a silly argument to say that proves enic are bleeding the club. Sure how many players did we buy last year with the money? There are only so many players available for sale. We bought loads and still missed out on the likes of willian and others I can't remember. Man. City and Chelsea have just given every other teams fans totally unrealistic expectations.


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    #1158
    Dublin Spur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    Pacing Mule wrote: »
    But again my question is where is the proof that they are making a fortune ?

    Record income could be balanced with record expenditure. Does our club accounts show that this record tv income is not being spent within the club and is being withdrawn by ENIC ? Or do they show that the income is being spent on higher expenditure / improvements within the club ?

    They do what ever they want with the money and don't have to disclose any info to the public.

    PL clubs have never earned more yet THFC has never spent less in the transfer market.

    Disgraceful behaviour


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    #1159
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    They do what ever they want with the money and don't have to disclose any info to the public.

    PL clubs have never earned more yet THFC has never spent less in the transfer market.

    Disgraceful behaviour

    Quick google throws this up

    http://m.tottenhamhotspur.com/the-club/investor-relations/annual-reports/

    It's a mobile link as I am on phone at moment but I am fairly certain the club as a plc is obliged to publish these accounts.


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    #1160
    Valcin
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Valcin


    What that table shows is that we have spent over twice as much as Aston Villa over the last five years who are a similar sized club to us. If you had a table of money spent we would be 5th.
    What it tells me is that enic are brilliant at finding players that become so good that much bigger clubs, who we can't possibly compete against financially, want to buy them for huge fees.
    And it should be pointed out that enic were reluctant to let any of those players go who had to fight the club to leave.


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    #1161
    Dublin Spur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    THFC is not a plc


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    #1162
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    THFC is not a plc

    I believe youre right, that changed quite recently (within the last year or two?)

    Can you back up your earlier allegations? You've been asked twice to do so but have yet to provide a shred of proof.


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    #1163
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    They do what ever they want with the money and don't have to disclose any info to the public.

    PL clubs have never earned more yet THFC has never spent less in the transfer market.

    Disgraceful behaviour

    Don't let anger get in the way of facts. 'Never spent less' you so sure about that?


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    #1164
    Dublin Spur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    irishmover wrote: »
    Don't let anger get in the way of facts. 'Never spent less' you so sure about that?

    We've taken in more than we've spent

    No ambition


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    #1165
    Dublin Spur
    Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    pleasant Co. wrote: »
    I believe youre right, that changed quite recently (within the last year or two?)

    Can you back up your earlier allegations? You've been asked twice to do so but have yet to provide a shred of proof.

    Just my view - nobody knows the inner workings of the club - we can only speculate.

    But we do know ENIC has taken in more than they have spent on players
    We also know ENIC received record sponsorship and TV revenue
    We also know there's no stadium in sight after 8 yrs of 'planning'
    We also know we've won 1 trophy in 15yrs (our worst run since the war)
    The sooner these shysters are gone the better


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    #1166
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    Just my view - nobody knows the inner workings of the club - we can only speculate.

    But we do know ENIC has taken in more than they have spent on players
    We also know ENIC received record sponsorship and TV revenue
    We also know there's no stadium in sight after 8 yrs of 'planning'
    We also know we've won 1 trophy in 15yrs (our worst run since the war)
    The sooner these shysters are gone the better

    Ya could be right Dublin Spur but I doubt Joe lewis is looking to a future date when a bigger billionaire comes in to buy the club. He's an already loaded old man.

    I could be wrong, I can assure you I regularly am.

    Have you ever sat down and seriously considered both sides of this argument. Is there a possibility you could be wrong?


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    #1167
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    We've taken in more than we've spent

    No ambition

    That's not what you've said though... But anyway..

    We've spent a truck tonne more than ever. We've also received a truck tonne more than ever.

    Three records last summer alone. Two record signings and one record sale.

    As I've said before you wouldn't be talking about all this if last season all the signings that you, and everyone else were so happy with performed. None of them did so you're back to the broken record again.

    For you to be right the money received from selling Bale, a world record sale, would have been divided between the shareholders. It wasn't. It was used along with a couple of other sales to reinvest back into the club.

    The only argument people should be having is how poor of a reinvestment that was.

    In regards to ambition, what are you referring to? Ambition for what? I've always seen the club to be ambitious. But ambitious within their financial constraints.

    What that table showed me was how ludicrous football has gotten. For clubs like Man City to be allowed to continue to go down this path. Football is heading down a terribly bad slippery slope. It's either seen as an investment or some billionaire Arabs play thing.

    What happens if ENIC builds this stadium that you said will never happen? You'll change from 'it'll never be built' to 'they're just using it to get more money when they sell up' right?

    People like you will never be happy no matter who owns the club!


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    #1168
    Pacing Mule
    Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    I've done a little digging and found this fans analysis of our 2012 accounts (filed in 2013) so one year behind but current filing but it still explains a lot ...
    Tottenham Hotspur Accounts 2012
    Our latest accounts have been filed at Companies House and SwissRamble has done a brief analysis:

    Tottenham Hotspur 2012 full accounts have been published: loss before tax £7.3m (2011 profit before tax £0.4m)
    Thanks to tax credits, THFC loss after tax smaller (than before tax loss) at £4.3m (2011 profit after tax £0.7m).
    revenue dropped 12% from last year’s record £163.5m to £144.2m, which is still 6th highest in England and 13th highest in the world.
    2012 revenue £144.2.5m (2011 £163.5m): match day £41.1m (2011 £43.3m), TV £61.6m (2011 £83.1m), commercial £41.5m (2011 £37.1m).
    Main reason for THFC £19.3m revenue fall is going from Champions to Europa, cutting prize money & gate receipts by £30.7m (37.1m to 6.4m).
    2012 domestic TV revenue up £5m, mainly due to higher league position (4th vs 5th) and 6 more live televised matches.
    THFC 2012 commercial income up £4m, mainly due to more revenue from main sponsorship deal, offset by lower merchandising sales
    2012 profit on player sales £9.2m similar to 2011 £8.6m, including Crouch, Palacios, Keane, O’Hara, Hutton, Pavlyuchenko and Corluka.
    2012 staff costs cut 1% to £90.2m (2011 £91.1m), though wages to turnover ratio rose from 56% to 63% following fall in revenue.
    2012 player amortisation fell £14.5m to £25m “as a result of significant player disposals”.
    2012 gross debt up £8m to £86m (2011 £78m), comprising bank loans and securitisation funds. Less £16m cash gives net debt of £70m.
    2012 net interest payable up to £5.7m (2011 £1m), mainly due to no interest credit on Preference Shares (£4m in 2011).
    continued to invest heavily in the stadium project and new training centre – £42m net (according to cash flow statement).
    Assets under construction (stadium & new training centre) now stand at £132m. No depreciation charges until in use.
    finances will be boosted in 2012/13 season by hefty player sales, e.g. Modric to Real Madrid and Van der Vaart to Hamburg.

    42 million spent on new infrastructure and preparing for the stadium. There's a big clue as to where a our transfer surplus has been going.

    Edit: original post and discussion was at

    http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/4138-Tottenham-Hotspur-Accounts-2012


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    #1169
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    Pacing Mule wrote: »
    I've done a little digging and found this fans analysis of our 2012 accounts (filed in 2013) so one year behind but current filing but it still explains a lot ...



    42 million spent on new infrastructure and preparing for the stadium. There's a big clue as to where a our transfer surplus has been going.

    Edit: original post and discussion was at

    http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/4138-Tottenham-Hotspur-Accounts-2012

    You mean, that **** ain't free? /facetious


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    #1170
    Martin567
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Martin567


    Dublin Spur wrote: »
    Our owners make profits on transfers, keep the TV and other commercial revenue for themselves, while Spurs win nothing year after year and you think I should go a support another club because I don't agree with this ?

    Open your eyes you clown for fcuks sake

    Complete and utter nonsense. Verbal diarrhea.

    You continue to make the same ridiculous points which are factually incorrect and don't even make any logical sense in theory. You then get offended when anyone pulls you up on your nonsense and claim to be entitled to express "your opinion". Grow up!


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    #1171
    same ol sh1te
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭same ol sh1te


    Martin567 wrote: »
    Complete and utter nonsense. Verbal diarrhea.

    You continue to make the same ridiculous points which are factually incorrect and don't even make any logical sense in theory. You then get offended when anyone pulls you up on your nonsense and claim to be entitled to express "your opinion". Grow up!

    It would be great if he kept it to this thread and we could all just avoid, it's like a broken record


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