Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

Dublin Spur

irishmover wrote: »

I think that Daniel Levy is trying to get the club back into the CL.

well he has a funny way of showing it with negitive netspend since 2009

why won't he invest in quality proven players or give his latest head coach some of the players on his wish list ?

I think its simply because he's rather not make the investment and is happy to maintain the current revenue - based on a top half finish, the odd cup 1/4 final and a transfer surplus.

irishmover

Can't believe I've just put a Spurs fan on ignore. Same **** over and over and over.

Dublin Spur

not a very mature response Irishmover, disagree with my opinion by all means but try to keep it civil.

Why do you (and a couple of others) get so upset by anti Levy sentiment ? I've always ackonwledged that he's done both good and bad things as Chairman and I have set out my issues with him. Some of these are facts and some are just my opinion.

Should we all just be thankful that we are a solvent club and that our average league position is higher than it was under the last Chairman ? If you follow this sentiment - I would suggest that you're setting the bar very low.

positivenote

lets see how all the levy fans react when Eriksen is shipped off to PSG in jan... great bit of business mind and another addition to the 'plus' column of the balance sheet.

Ormus

positivenote wrote: »

lets see how all the levy fans react when Eriksen is shipped off to PSG in jan... great bit of business mind and another addition to the 'plus' column of the balance sheet.

Seriously?

When have we ever shipped a player off?

The club fights tooth and nail to keep its best players.

2nd Row Donkey

Ormus wrote: »

The club fights tooth and nail to get as much money as possible for its best players.

I fixed that there for you,

2nd Row Donkey

Levy low balling over the summer.

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/fazio-is-a-liar-sevilla-anger-at-tottenham-s-attempt-for-cheaper-?xg_source=activity

Not sure the above link and quotes contained within are legit and within context but it would be a real shame if there was any truth to it.

Fazio is a little over 3 months at the club when he could have been signed in June according to this article.

Its taken him that time and about 8 EPL games to get to grips with the EPL and he's starting to look like a decent enough addition to the squad but had he of been signed in June, who know he might have adapted quicker and we could be a few points better off in the table.

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

I fixed that there for you,

Eh no. You didn't. Name one player we shipped out? Simple question.

2nd Row Donkey

Ormus wrote:

Eh no. You didn't. Name one player we shipped out? Simple question.

I didn't say he shipped them out. (that was someone else) but since you ask .. Van der Vaart.

I edited your post to make the point that the priority is to get as much money as possible as opposed to fighting tooth and nail to keep the player.

mass_debater

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

I didn't say he shipped them out. (that was someone else) but since you ask .. Van der Vaart

I edited your post to make the point that the priority is to get as much money as possible as opposed to fighting tooth and nail to keep the player.

Was Vdv shipped out? I thought he asked for move to Germany to try rescue his marriage and the club agreed. Anyway, his best days were over, he was fcuked after 70 mins every game, we were constantly on about his lack of fitness/fatness

mushykeogh

mass_debater wrote: »

Was Vdv shipped out? I thought he asked for move to Germany to try rescue his marriage and the club agreed

And his overall contribution in games at that stage was pretty poor.

mass_debater

mushykeogh wrote: »

And his overall contribution in games at that stage was pretty poor.

Yeah, ninja edited my postI to say just that

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

I didn't say he shipped them out. (that was someone else) but since you ask .. Van der Vaart.

I edited your post to make the point that the priority is to get as much money as possible as opposed to fighting tooth and nail to keep the player.

Van der Vaart at his peak for us couldn't run for more than 60 mins in a game, and he had passed his peak, as his performances in Germany clearly show.

Is that seriously your only example? It doesn't even make sense as we didn't get a big fee for him. Did we even get a fee?

I think you've proved my point for me if that's your example.

2nd Row Donkey

Ormus wrote:

Van der Vaart at his peak for us couldn't run for more than 60 mins in a game, and he had passed his peak, as his performances in Germany clearly show.

Ormus wrote:

Is that seriously your only example? It doesn't even make sense as we didn't get a big fee for him. Did we even get a fee?

Ormus wrote:

I think you've proved my point for me if that's your example.

We got VdV for £8M.

A bit of googling suggest he was sold for around £8 to £10M (but Levy wanted as much as £14M)

Not bad for a player who was pushing on in years and supposedly past his best.

(who was incidentally nominated for PFA player of the year in one of the 2 seasons he played for us .. that was the same year Bale won it )

... Not too shabby for a player struggling to play more than 60 mins a game.


And yes, to be honest that was the only example I could think of but as I pointed out it wasn't me who made the comment about Levy "shipping players out".

Most of the other players we lost to other clubs for excessive profit either demanded to leave, threatened to strike or wanted to join their boyhood club. VdV was sold because it was a very good deal for the club... same could be said for Siggy and to a lesser extent Pienaar.

Ormus

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

We got VdV for £8M.

A bit of googling suggest he was sold for around £8 to £10M (but Levy wanted as much as £14M)

Not bad for a player who was pushing on in years and supposedly past his best.

(who was incidentally nominated for PFA player of the year in one of the 2 seasons he played for us .. that was the same year Bale won it )

... Not too shabby for a player struggling to play more than 60 mins a game.


And yes, to be honest that was the only example I could think of but as I pointed out it wasn't me who made the comment about Levy "shipping players out".

Most of the other players we lost to other clubs for excessive profit either demanded to leave, threatened to strike or wanted to join their boyhood club. VdV was sold because it was a very good deal for the club... same could be said for Siggy and to a lesser extent Pienaar.

That's my point. Spurs don't ship their best players out as a way to make money. VdV was good in his first season with Spurs. He was a classy player and great to watch. But ultimately his style slowed us down and he was getting worse.

Siggy was sold because it didn't work out. He's a decent player but needs to have a team built around him to excel and that wasn't gonna happen at Spurs.

You didn't make the comment but you corrected my post about it. Anyway, your comments are fair so it's all good.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

Spurs don't ship their best players out as a way to make money.

Say what now?

Even the dogs on the Lane knows that's exactly what we do. ENIC's business model from the outset has been to source players with a potentially high resale value rather than buy ready made players who can make an immediate impact. Sell first, then spend. A strategy which has caused us instability almost every other season.

I do worry about you sometimes Ormus;)

Dublin Spur

There have been a few 'star' players (Carrick, Berbatov, Keane, Modric, Bale) that we sold for big money/profit and it could be agrued that it was impossible to keep them at the club and that profiting from their transfer was not ENIC's main aim, this is debatable of course but lets give ENIC the benefit of the doubt.

On the other end, there have been dozens players bought and then sold at a profit without ever really making an impact in the first team. These signings were either pure speculative punts at making money on future sale or really poor footballing decisions.

We hardly ever go for finished article - we consistantly speculate on potential quality when our team needs proven quality right now.

mass_debater

I think Dublin Spur wishes we had a Sugar Daddy like Chelsea and City. I'd prefer if we actually earned success. We were punching above our weight for a while, we can again if we stick with a decent manager and look after the youngsters coming through the ranks.

Dublin Spur

mass_debater wrote: »

I think Dublin Spur wishes we had a Sugar Daddy like Chelsea and City. I'd prefer if we actually earned success. We were punching above our weight for a while, we can again if we stick with a decent manager and look after the youngsters coming through the ranks.

we already have a billionnaire owner - except he uses Spurs to make more money

just our luck !

mass_debater

Dublin Spur wrote: »

we already have a billionnaire owner - except he uses Spurs to make more money

just our luck !

That's business, that's reality, we're in the same boat as most other clubs

Dublin Spur

mass_debater wrote: »

That's business, that's reality, we're in the same boat as most other clubs

not much fun is it ?

spending a little more than we earn from transfers shouldn't be a lot to ask for.

we're going nowhere as a club - we had the chance to kick on following Champions League qualification and ENIC did nothing.

oh well, what can you do other than have a little moan on the internet

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Say what now?

Even the dogs on the Lane knows that's exactly what we do. ENIC's business model from the outset has been to source players with a potentially high resale value rather than buy ready made players who can make an immediate impact. Sell first, then spend. A strategy which has caused us instability almost every other season.

I do worry about you sometimes Ormus;)

I worry about you too. Can you name one time when Spurs shipped out their best player? Just one.

When your finished failing to answer that question, explain to me how Spurs can buy 'ready made', presumably top 4 / champions league standard players, and why such guaranteed world class players would join Spurs over clubs who are challenging for the league or champions league?

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

I worry about you too. Can you name one time when Spurs shipped out their best player? Just one.

When your finished failing to answer that question, explain to me how Spurs can buy 'ready made', presumably top 4 / champions league standard players, and why such guaranteed world class players would join Spurs over clubs who are challenging for the league or champions league?

Carrick, Keane, Berbatov, Modric & Bale.... Of course, as an ENIC cheerleader you will say the club was forced but in reality the end game is always to sell at peak value. One of these may be an exception to the rule but the trend is there for all to see.

Did I mention world class players? What about premier league experiene? With the money from the Bale sale not one of the players bought had any premier league experience. Everyone acknowledges that we cannot compete with teams consistently qualifying for champions leage however Everton (one of the premier leagues shrewdest clubs) signed Lukaku for £28m. How did they manage that then?

The club have more often than not sold their best players, "after having their hand forced" and then failed to replace those players. Selling wisely and spending foolishly. Even when we had the attraction of champions league football we failed to capitalise.

Again you will say "nobody was giving out when we signed seven players" and that's a poor argument. Never in my lifetime have Spurs signed seven players, as fans we had a genuine right to be excited under the assumption that the guys getting paid large salaries to run the club and oversee the expenditure were making the right decisions... Levy pays himself £2.2m annually.

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Carrick, Keane, Berbatov, Modric & Bale.... Of course, as an ENIC cheerleader you will say the club was forced but in reality the end game is always to sell at peak value. One of these may be an exception to the rule but the trend is there for all to see.

Did I mention world class players? What about premier league experiene? With the money from the Bale sale not one of the players bought had any premier league experience. Everyone acknowledges that we cannot compete with teams consistently qualifying for champions leage however Everton (one of the premier leagues shrewdest clubs) signed Lukaku for £28m. How did they manage that then?

The club have more often than not sold their best players, "after having their hand forced" and then failed to replace those players. Selling wisely and spending foolishly. Even when we had the attraction of champions league football we failed to capitalise.

Again you will say "nobody was giving out when we signed seven players" and that's a poor argument. Never in my lifetime have Spurs signed seven players, as fans we had a genuine right to be excited under the assumption that the guys getting paid large salaries to run the club and oversee the expenditure were making the right decisions... Levy pays himself £2.2m annually.

Haha, you're clutching at straws now. So the end game was always to sell at peak value? How come we got way less for Modric after insisting on keeping him an extra season? If you don't think the club tried to keep hold of Bale and Berbatov then why did the players have to go on strike or refuse to train in order to engineer a move?

Why do people still bang on about 'Premier League experience'? How many premier league experienced players did Southampton and West Ham buy this summer?

Not sure why you're referencing Lukaku? He's hardly top class, although he may be in the future. If you're on about top class players, Spurs signed Lloris and Soldado. I know Soldado has kinda flopped but he was a proven scorer in La Liga. Profile wise, he's probably the highest class player Spurs have signed. Van der Vaart was high profile too, but they are exceptions to the rule.

Levy is a chairman. He's a businessman, not a football manager. He hired a football expert, Baldini, with a good reputation and a good cv. It didn't work out. He can't tell the future unfortunately, no matter how much he gets paid.

Dublin Spur

He's been pretty poor at judging the future in his current role.

I'm sure his judgmnets have been made in good faith, but they have all been pretty shíte and have lead us to where we are now.

If he were the CEO of a public limited company he'd be long gone - unfortunately it looks like we stuck with this failure of a chairman until he decides to sell up, the day he does go he will add a big windfall the the millions he's already made on the back of this great club.

Leinstersqspur

Ormus wrote: »

Haha, you're clutching at straws now. So the end game was always to sell at peak value? How come we got way less for Modric after insisting on keeping him an extra season? If you don't think the club tried to keep hold of Bale and Berbatov then why did the players have to go on strike or refuse to train in order to engineer a move?

Not sure what tabloid told you Berbatov went on strike to force a move..

Quote Levy himself "The internal decision to sell Dimitar at the beginning of the window was premised on a suitable replacement being found and on the assumption that Dimitar couldn't be persuaded to change his mind.

"The timing of the actual transfer of Dimitar was completely immaterial and unconnected to our bringing in a replacement for him. We had been aware for a long period that he was likely to leave and our negotiations to get the best fee for him were independent of our work to replace both him (as we did with Roman Pavlyuchenko) and Robbie Keane, with experienced strikers.

"We failed because we were not as decisive or as successful in identifying or replacing the two strikers as early as we should have been.

This was the reason Levy sacked Comoli, but did Levy learn from this? We always knew Modric and Bale were going to leave but the club failed to replace them.

Ormus wrote: »

Why do people still bang on about 'Premier League experience'? How many premier league experienced players did Southampton and West Ham buy this summer?

Not sure why you're referencing Lukaku? He's hardly top class, although he may be in the future.

At 19yrs old Lukaku went on loan to West Brom, then Everton and scored 17 and 15 goals respectively. He's still only 21yrs old and is a physical beast which is a great attribute to have in the EPL. He would strike me as a potentially world class player who could have an immediate impact.

Ormus wrote: »

Levy is a chairman. He's a businessman, not a football manager. He hired a football expert, Baldini, with a good reputation and a good cv. It didn't work out. He can't tell the future unfortunately, no matter how much he gets paid.

I'm not sure if Baldini is regarded as a football expert. He's certainly a man with plenty of connections and probably a good negotiator, at least not as agressive/offensive as Levy. But Levy runs the club, he sacked Comoli, he hired Sherwood and Ferdinand (who infamously turned down Suarez) and then hired Baldini who's blown out biggest 'sell first, spend later' budget.

You seem to think Levy is unimpeachable.

Ormus

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Not sure what tabloid told you Berbatov went on strike to force a move..

Quote Levy himself "The internal decision to sell Dimitar at the beginning of the window was premised on a suitable replacement being found and on the assumption that Dimitar couldn't be persuaded to change his mind.

"The timing of the actual transfer of Dimitar was completely immaterial and unconnected to our bringing in a replacement for him. We had been aware for a long period that he was likely to leave and our negotiations to get the best fee for him were independent of our work to replace both him (as we did with Roman Pavlyuchenko) and Robbie Keane, with experienced strikers.

"We failed because we were not as decisive or as successful in identifying or replacing the two strikers as early as we should have been.

This was the reason Levy sacked Comoli, but did Levy learn from this? We always knew Modric and Bale were going to leave but the club failed to replace them.



At 19yrs old Lukaku went on loan to West Brom, then Everton and scored 17 and 15 goals respectively. He's still only 21yrs old and is a physical beast which is a great attribute to have in the EPL. He would strike me as a potentially world class player who could have an immediate impact.



I'm not sure if Baldini is regarded as a football expert. He's certainly a man with plenty of connections and probably a good negotiator, at least not as agressive/offensive as Levy. But Levy runs the club, he sacked Comoli, he hired Sherwood and Ferdinand (who infamously turned down Suarez) and then hired Baldini who's blown out biggest 'sell first, spend later' budget.

You seem to think Levy is unimpeachable.

Well honestly I don't read the tabloids and I understood that Berbatov refused to stay, refused to train and had to be dropped. Either way, it seems pretty clear it wasn't possible to persuade him to stay. I'm not sure how you can say that he was 'shipped out'.

I have nothing against Lukaku. I don't think he has the all round game to be truly world class, but I may be wrong, he is young. I just don't understand why you brought him up. Spurs have signed higher profile players than him very recently.

I think you know you're being ridiculous with that story about Sherwood and Ferdinand turning down Suarez? I don't remember where that story came from, but it sounds like the Daily Sport or something. Every single big club in Europe scouted Suarez and they all effectively 'turned him down' except Liverpool.

I presume you didn't mean unimpeachable literally. Of course it's a matter of opinion, but yes, in my opinion, as long as he keeps running the club well on the business side, and makes sound appointments on the football side, he should be left to do his job. I think it's wrong to blame him for Baldini's failures with hindsight, that's just people looking for a fall guy. It was a well reasoned appointment at the time which I don't remember anyone criticising. As I say, just my opinion.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

in my opinion, as long as he keeps running the club well on the business side, and makes sound appointments on the football side, he should be left to do his job. I think it's wrong to blame him for Baldini's failures with hindsight, that's just people looking for a fall guy. It was a well reasoned appointment at the time which I don't remember anyone criticising. As I say, just my opinion.

but if you follow that logic, nobody should ever be sacked, managers/DOFs sign players in good faith based on sound research, is it the managers/DOF's fault that the player turnes out to be rubbish in hindsight ? Why then should the manager/DOF be sacked ?

Why should everyone down the chain of command be accountable for the failure and never the man at the top ?

Dublin Spur

I think Levy has a DOF system in place so he can distance himself from blame when the enevitible **** hits the fan - it's just one big buck passing exercise.

Executives usually live and die by their decisions Levy seems to be one of the rare exceptions.

So long as uncle Joe's investment keeps growing there'll be no pressure on Levy, unless the fans turn on him, which is starting to happen thankfully

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

but if you follow that logic, nobody should ever be sacked, managers/DOFs sign players in good faith based on sound research, is it the managers/DOF's fault that the player turnes out to be rubbish in hindsight ? Why then should the manager/DOF be sacked ?

Why should everyone down the chain of command be accountable for the failure and never the man at the top ?

Eh? You didn't read what I said.

If Levy was doing a bad job running the club business wise and was making illogical decisions on who he appointed on the football side, he should be booted out.