White Irish leave, Black Irish stay....may be trouble ahead?

fontanalis

paky wrote: »

op i agree with you.

so many people on this site find it hard to discuss this issue with any sense of maturity.

personally i feel the current ethnic state of ireland is in complete dissarray.

ireland has completely lost its identity and has become europes prostitute.

state of the place

Yes; Ireland, USA, Canda, Australia, England and New Zealand for the Irish. Everyone else out.

Coriolanus

Mulato women are hot. If anything, we should be inviting more blacks, south americans and eastern europeans IN, hell, pay them to come if need be.
I want to be an old geezer looking at all the fine quasi-Brazilian hotties walking around the place.

RockinRolla

fontanalis wrote: »

Yes; Ireland, USA, Canda, Australia, England and New Zealand for the Irish. Everyone else out.

Why aren't China, Brazil, India realistic destinations for the Irish? Why must we go to countries that speak English? The ironic thing is, said three countries have more of a future than us.

dsmythy

Tordelback wrote: »

Second, I'd like to remind our hooded crusaders that it was universally lily-white jack-the-lad fáinne-wearing GAA-supporting Guinness-swilling Irish-born bastards that got us into the present economic catastrophe, and not the handful of people who travelled to this sinking ship in the vain hope of a better life for their families. And more fool them.

Yeah but we created them, we didn't import them. I see a distinct difference there.

orourkeda wrote: »

Impossible. Is the state supposed to tell people where to live?

It would help avoid ghettoisation but the same people who ignore any bad side to multiculturalism would likely be dead against that too. Ah well!

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

We have a good chance of avoiding the ghettoisation of our country is we promote multiculturalism at a young age.

So in order to create unity we should point out each others differences more often? How's about all the kids are treated equally and as Irish citizens. Emphasise that.

gracehopper wrote: »

I'm black and I'm proud

Someone proud of the colour of their skin. Racist!

fontanalis

RockinRolla wrote: »

Why aren't China, Brazil, India realistic destinations for the Irish? Why must we go to countries that speak English? The ironic thing is, said three countries have more of a future than us.

Obviously you mean the white irish, language is obviously the barrier. But I think China is an unsustainable bubble.

Conor_M1990

Havent read the Thread but the way I look at it is

Everyones Welcome to come here no matter want colour creed race

If you contribute to the country in some way then your more then welcome to stay

if you dont then gtfo

mecanoman

Conor_M1990 wrote: »

Havent read the Thread but the way I look at it is

Everyones Welcome to come here no matter want colour creed race

If you contribute to the country in some way then your more then welcome to stay

if you dont then gtfo

But some don't. They fiddle the system for all its worth, what are you

gonna do about it. There here to stay once they have kids(lots of them).

delta720

dvpower wrote: »

I don't think the state is trying to promote integration with asylum seekers.

Most of them aren't sucessful in their applications and it would be more difficult to remove them if they've integrated.

I don't think the issue is with the integration of asylum seekers, but the integration of people granted asylum or Irish citizenship.

Trying to promote integration of people who have just arrived into the (stupidly) long asylum system would kind of screw up the whole process. The Australians in/famously took this to the other extreme with their detention of all illegal immigrants, but it's impossible to please everyone. I'm still out on judgement.

Wertz

delta720 wrote: »

I don't think the issue is with the integration of asylum seekers, but the integration of people granted asylum or Irish citizenship.

Exactly.
...and to point out what I should have pointed out in the other post, said appartment building was for the housing of those who had passed their asylum test, not those waiting to do so.

Anecdotal evidence of something happening in one small corner of the country isn't evidence...but it's all I have. Those who say "Oh Ireland is different, different circumstances, no colonial past" etc...the exact same was siad of Ireland regarding the economic boom, soft landings, we're different...don't be so sure. We have many things in common with the UK and France regarding race issues....the main thing being people; people will revert to type when faced with circumstances they see as unjust or lacking fairness...

southsiderosie

delta720 wrote: »

I don't know what town you live in, but in the majority of large towns around the country where asylum seekers have been sent they are crowded together in the same housing estates or apartment blocks, where they only interact with each other (though they have little choice).

And from seeing what is happening in Louth, once they have asylum they choose certain private housing estates where they all rent out, of course getting their rent allowance.

I agree with you on the asylum seekers part. But if you look at the CSO data, the immigrant population is pretty distributed across the country. Nigerians and other non-EU migrants as a group are disproportionately urban, but that is probably because those who are not asylum seekers are professionals (a lot worse in the HSE for example).

As for people choosing to live around their co-ethnics in clusters of private housing, well, I can't think of any immigrant group who doesn't do this. However, the extent to which this happens in Ireland - and even in Dublin - is nowhere near the scale of other European countries. And given that 1) Ireland has clamped down on asylum, 2) asylum applications have fallen significantly since 2004, and 3) there is no longer automatic birthright citizenship, it is unlikely that there will be repeated waves of African migrants (the way there were large repeated waves of North Africans in France, or non-white migrants in Britain).

delta720 wrote: »

I have nothing against these people individually but it is clear to alot of people around the country where this will all go.

Alot of people are saying 'It's not like that in Ireland' 'We don't have those problems' 'We're multi-cultural' etc, but it seems these people are living and working in a class of area where they don't come into contact with our massive immigrant population (as a % of our own population). There is nothing more disheartening than buying a house in a private estate, paying your tax and morgage and then having a family who just arrived in Ireland being given the same house beside you, paid for by the state (via the HSE). And for people who say this doesn't happen, this is happening all over the country, these people have to be housed somewhere but it seems Ireland in its infinate kindness think they deserve as much as our own citizens who have been working all their lives.

The immigrant population as a % of the general population is not massive for a wealthy Western country, and a significant chunk of Ireland's immigrants are from the UK, US, or CAN/AUS/NZ. The vast majority of immigrants are EU citizens. And, frankly, I don't think that's the population that people are concerned about here. In 2006 (peak immigration year), there were just under 420,000 immigrants in Ireland, and only 35,326 were African (i.e. less than 10%).

Let's be clear here: the only immigrants who can get state-funded housing on arrival are asylum-seekers, and that is not out of the goodness of the Irish people's hearts, it is a requirement under international law. It seems that the Irish government may be using some of the surplus housing stock for asylees, but from what I'm aware of, the vast majority live in hostel/dormitory-type places. No other immigrant group gets state housing/funding upon arrival.

southsiderosie

Wertz wrote: »

Exactly.
...and to point out what I should have pointed out in the other post, said appartment building was for the housing of those who had passed their asylum test, not those waiting to do so.

Anecdotal evidence of something happening in one small corner of the country isn't evidence...but it's all I have. Those who say "Oh Ireland is different, different circumstances, no colonial past" etc...the exact same was siad of Ireland regarding the economic boom, soft landings, we're different...don't be so sure. We have many things in common with the UK and France regarding race issues....the main thing being people; people will revert to type when faced with circumstances they see as unjust or lacking fairness...

I just really disagree with this. People may revert to type when times get hard, but how society responds matters as well. Looking across Europe, there are HUGE differences in levels of social, economic, and political integration of the same immigrant population depending on what country they landed in: Turks in Germany and Turks in the Netherlands are different, as are Moroccans in the Netherlands vs Moroccans in Belgium or Spain. Country context matters.

Ireland has little in common with most other European countries with large immigrant populations. The fact that it was never an empire or colonial power makes a huge difference in how ethnic minorities are treated. France is a perfect example: blacks from the US were feted in the 1950s and 1960s, while blacks and North Africans from the colonies were treated like ****. Ireland's immigrants are also by and large quite highly skilled, especially the non-Eastern European immigrant population. So, again, I disagree that Ireland is doomed to repeat the mistakes and problems of the UK, France, and other continental European countries. I'm certainly not saying that it will all be smooth sailing, but I would be very surprised if Mulhuddart turned into a banlieue-style community in the next 20 years.

Hank_Jones

Let's not forget the Persians.

Coming here, taking our rugs!

They took our rugs...

TwoShedsJackson

<snip> - If you have an objection to a poster report their post. Don't level insults at them please.

delta720

southsiderosie wrote: »

As for people choosing to live around their co-ethnics in clusters of private housing, well, I can't think of any immigrant group who doesn't do this. However, the extent to which this happens in Ireland - and even in Dublin - is nowhere near the scale of other European countries. And given that 1) Ireland has clamped down on asylum, 2) asylum applications have fallen significantly since 2004, and 3) there is no longer automatic birthright citizenship, it is unlikely that there will be repeated waves of African migrants (the way there were large repeated waves of North Africans in France, or non-white migrants in Britain).

I partially agree, and given the statistics of the current trend of immigration and the fact that most African immigrants seem to be highly educated (Though I'd be interested to know how they gained such skill's while continuously being 'oppressed' in their home countries) it would on paper at least appear as if we shall have little trouble.

However my point is that the people who have this view, and the general media, only see these issues on paper, they don't have it going on around their own lives.

Anyone living near areas with a high non-national % can already see tensions everyday. All it takes is a group of Irish lads who can't find jobs taking it out on a group of Africans or Asians who have jobs in their town, then a group of Irish lads on a night out get beat up walking past the cinema in Dundalk in retaliation. It is as simple as that for us to have a nation-wide problem and with nearly all large towns in the country already having 'Black' areas, the not so distant future could see areas unsafe for whites to walk through at night, just as currently there are streets I wouldn't recommend non-nationals go through at night.

All that is clearly to the extreme, however it is foolish for people who rarely encounter what is currently going on to sit behind their computer, read statistics, and tell people who live with this that everything is going to be ok. To say Ireland is different than England and France is true but numerous different situations can all, sadly, end with the same result, and the white flight trend in West Dublin shows this (Although that's only from the statistics I've read off my computer).

amacachi

delta720 wrote: »

I partially agree, and given the statistics of the current trend of immigration and the fact that most African immigrants seem to be highly educated (Though I'd be interested to know how they gained such skill's while continuously being 'oppressed' in their home countries) it would on paper at least appear as if we shall have little trouble.

Huh? If they're highly skilled they're here for work, not as asylum seekers, what does oppression have to do with it?

However my point is that the people who have this view, and the general media, only see these issues on paper, they don't have it going on around their own lives.

Anyone living near areas with a high non-national % can already see tensions everyday. All it takes is a group of Irish lads who can't find jobs taking it out on a group of Africans or Asians who have jobs in their town, then a group of Irish lads on a night out get beat up walking past the cinema in Dundalk in retaliation. It is as simple as that for us to have a nation-wide problem and with nearly all large towns in the country already having 'Black' areas, the not so distant future could see areas unsafe for whites to walk through at night, just as currently there are streets I wouldn't recommend non-nationals go through at night.

So it just takes some scumbags acting like scumbags to start trouble? Who'd've thunk it? Also I can't see why many people would be walking past the cinema either. On top of that when I was in my teens I'd be doing things I shouldn't have been doing in that area and none of the residents cared, only hassle we ever got was from white, Irish guys passing through looking to start something.

All that is clearly to the extreme, however it is foolish for people who rarely encounter what is currently going on to sit behind their computer, read statistics, and tell people who live with this that everything is going to be ok. To say Ireland is different than England and France is true but numerous different situations can all, sadly, end with the same result, and the white flight trend in West Dublin shows this (Although that's only from the statistics I've read off my computer).

Yep, it is to the extreme and it also could apply to anything, if people are going to start trouble for some reason, then there'll be trouble. When I was pissed off I couldn't find a job I didn't "take it out" on anybody. Anyway the vast majority of people I've seen giving abuse or hassle to blacks are lads who certainly aren't too worried about finding work.

Chinasea

I happen to overhear an auld lady (?) who was pushing a man in a wheelchair say - "they are such a demanding race. look at them down at Mosney”! This country is sickeningly racist - we have a handfull of foreign immigrants relatively speaking and posters like yourselves spend after hours feeding the bigots. I guarantee that ever person reading this has some Ireish relative living abroad but sure it’s our devine and absolute right to emigrate and sure aren't we great crack too.

Donkey Oaty

Chinasea wrote: »

I happen to overhear an auld lady (?)

Aul' wan.

Yo darkman, paky,

I'm as white & Irish as they come.

Since we're in the wild world of boogeyman politics....

The last world war was started by people who thought like you.

I reckon the next one will be fought by freedom-lovers like me, who don't give a sh*t where you come from or what you look like, against people who think like you.

Here's hoping for a similar result.

Racist scum are scum.

The Agogo

^^I agree with that.

Racists are scum. Like the OP.




EDIT:

Ah sorry OP. In a bad mood was all. Apologies.

charlemont

my neighborhood has a large amount of blacks and other nationalities and its our own that break into cars, burgle flats, assault people and use heroin, the africans here are good mannered and dont bother anyone, as we say here, " one more blackhead , one less smackhead ".

sure its our own that wanted to bring in immigrants to work, even though we had our own unemployed, it became the cool thing for the gombeen men to have foreigners working for them, no one to blame but ourselves...

Celly Smunt

darkman2 wrote: »

Your pulling a PC card to win popularity - it's worn out here. Once again I ask


It is logical that if so many white Irish are leaving and not so many black Irish then the racial divide increases - no?


Answer that question. You have a brain don't you? You are capable of independent thought?

mathimatically yes,realistically it is bullshít look at a population count

dr.bollocko

Deleted User wrote: »

Yo darkman, paky,

I'm as white & Irish as they come.

Since we're in the wild world of boogeyman politics....

The last world war was started by people who thought like you.

I reckon the next one will be fought by freedom-lovers like me, who don't give a sh*t where you come from or what you look like, against people who think like you.

Here's hoping for a similar result.

Racist scum are scum.

The Agogo wrote: »

^^I agree with that.

Racists are scum. Like the OP

Any more insults volleyed at posters here will result in a ban. Attack the post not the poster or bans from here on out.

Please report any posts or PM me if you have any questions.

Manic Preacher

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Let's not forget the Persians.

Coming here, taking our rugs!

They took our rugs...

Excellent

delta720

amacachi wrote: »

Huh? If they're highly skilled they're here for work, not as asylum seekers, what does oppression have to do with it?


So it just takes some scumbags acting like scumbags to start trouble? Who'd've thunk it? Also I can't see why many people would be walking past the cinema either. On top of that when I was in my teens I'd be doing things I shouldn't have been doing in that area and none of the residents cared, only hassle we ever got was from white, Irish guys passing through looking to start something.


Yep, it is to the extreme and it also could apply to anything, if people are going to start trouble for some reason, then there'll be trouble. When I was pissed off I couldn't find a job I didn't "take it out" on anybody. Anyway the vast majority of people I've seen giving abuse or hassle to blacks are lads who certainly aren't too worried about finding work.

Yeah just re-reading my own post, it was crap, it made sense in my head though! I never knew you were pissed off you couldn't find a job, as far as I remember you thought it was great, and sure you were going back to college anyway!

amacachi

delta720 wrote: »

Yeah just re-reading my own post, it was crap, it made sense in my head though! I never knew you were pissed off you couldn't find a job, as far as I remember you thought it was great, and sure you were going back to college anyway!

Not at the start, was Goddamn annoying for the 4/5 months before I got on the dole and relying on cigarettes from Lanzarote to get me through the summer. :pac:

Star Bingo

well i seriously can't bear racism man if i see it i snap i confronted some skanger months back shouting down an indian guy as 'paki' but then i can't stand the notion of lots of halfcast clones like london with an already scarily popular hip-op culture becoming an trademark irish thing.. spawning outfits like So Solid Croagh or N-Dublinerz and ferocious little jilted irish ghetto boyz riding around on bmx's with guns on em n dominating the irish charts mouthing off childish rhymes its the nightmare scenario imo. n its all over amsterdam n paris too imagine em in spain italy or japan for instance, no thanks

indeed some say its inevitable n the darker gene is always the dominant gene in a mixed couple's child but there has to be some or i can't have my carribean swordfish steak.. god don't let racism blight this nation.. why would one sink so low? the solution of course is don't let em in in the first place. except maybe just a few hot asians.. selfish i know, but what can u do

dr.bollocko

Less caffeine might help.

dyl10

darkman2 wrote: »

We may only have African immigrants left in a year's time!

If things get that bad, they probably won't stick around either

Dudess

I don't think it's true that Ireland is extremely racist as a country - a few racist arseholes (like anywhere) does not a racist society make.

Fo Real

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think it's true that Ireland is extremely racist as a country - a few racist arseholes (like anywhere) does not a racist society make.

Which posters exactly are you calling arseholes? You don't agree with someone so you throw insults at them? Mature attitude you have. Post reported.

Oh and for the record, it's not illegal to be racist. People are entitled to their views
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055943152

Amhran Nua

Fo Real wrote: »

Oh and for the record, it's not illegal to be racist. People are entitled to their views

As long as they don't express them near anyone who might be targeted by their views, as for example on boards. On the other hand, you are entirely entitled to call someone an arsehole.

dsmythy

Amhran Nua wrote: »

As long as they don't express them near anyone who might be targeted by their views, as for example on boards. On the other hand, you are entirely entitled to call someone an arsehole.

Near anyone? At anyone more like. Unless they were at an African convention or something.

Dudess

Fo Real wrote: »

Which posters exactly are you calling arseholes?

I'm as stumped as you are.

You don't agree with someone so you throw insults at them? Mature attitude you have. Post reported.

Holy jumping to conclusions Batman!

DB10

Feel sorry for the OP, think he was making a genuine thread here. Why is it that whenever there is a thread discussing colour or race, people brandish others racists and scumbags.

I for one don't think you can judge a person on internet posts, unless they are really extreme.

Nothing the OP has said is in any way warranting these volley of insults that have followed. Mr Agogo on the previous page you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm afraid AH is probably not the place to have this discussion, as we all know.

Micky Dolenz

DB10 wrote: »

I'm afraid AH is probably not the place to have this discussion, as we all know.

Not to go off topic, but what does that mean? If you have a problem with a post, report it.

AH is exactly the place where discussion should be had.

bodice ripper

i am am immigrant, and when I moved here as a child in the 80s I got fecking REAMS of abuse from other kids and their parents, and occasionally even teachers.

and I am white, with an irish parent. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I weren't.

here's hoping the OP never has to leave this country permanently to get work, and gets to feel that abuse from others. How can any human being seriously blame anyone for wanting to leave africa? seriously? You would do it too.

Dudess

I agree the term "racist" can be bandied about a bit too casually and I don't think it's racist to question a country's immigration policy (even if done so in an extremely misinformed way - ignorant maybe, racist not necessarily) but the opening post is riddled with speculation and unsubstantiated claims, and then it hardly helps when the OP tells everyone what they really think and accuses someone of being politically correct for popularity.

DB10

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Not to go off topic, but what does that mean? If you have a problem with a post, report it.

AH is exactly the place where discussion should be had.

Is it really? These threads normally descend into flame wars within 5 minutes.

I don't know where else it could be placed....

Micky Dolenz

DB10 wrote: »

Is it really? These threads normally descend into flame wars within 5 minutes.

I don't know where else it could be placed....

Again, report posts.

Ok, back on topic.

Dudess

Fo Real wrote: »

Oh and for the record, it's not illegal to be racist. People are entitled to their views
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055943152

Yes, people are entitled to their views - people are also entitled to express the view that someone is an arsehole for having racial segregationalist views and actively engaging in discriminating against/judging a person based on their race.

Speaking generally here, not in relation to anyone specific on the thread - I think sometimes the term "racist" is being thrown out in a kneejerk fashion here and it sometimes discredit an otherwise good point.

DB10

I'm not being a troll here, just making a quick point. If hypothetically the OP was really a racist (which he is obviously not, not up for debate), then would he say "Black Irish" in the title.

Probably not, as most would not call black people Irish. Yet alot have jumped on the guy.

*awaits someone to misinterpret post

OPENROAD

Dudess wrote: »

I agree the term "racist" can be bandied about a bit too casually and I don't think it's racist to question a country's immigration policy (even if done so in an extremely misinformed way - ignorant maybe, racist not necessarily) but the opening post is riddled with speculation and unsubstantiated claims, and then it hardly helps when the OP tells everyone what they really think and accuses someone of being politically correct for popularity.

Unless it is another country questioning it, in that case we get on our high horse and it certainly is racist

OPENROAD

DB10 wrote: »

I'm not being a troll here, just making a quick point. If hypothetically the OP was really a racist (which he is obviously not, not up for debate), then would he say "Black Irish" in the title.

Probably not, as most would not call black people Irish. Yet alot have jumped on the guy.

*awaits someone to misinterpret post

Actually I'm really confused by the OP thread title it refers to "Black Irish" but then he talks about foreigners

sdanseo

We've seen what can happen when immigration is let spiral out of control. Look at the UK - there are parts of birmingham, etc where you may as well be in downtown Lagos. Moore Street is similar.

I have no problem with immigrants persé - a lot of them work harder than Irish people tend to. But when an influx of people from other cultures is so great that it overshadows our own culture - Moore St is the scene of some great history in Ireland, but is now avoided - then it needs curtailing or regulating.

Although I agree that a lot of Moore St's problems are caused by junkies. I'll be less PC about them, they should just all be killed (well, the ones who make our streets look bad).

velvet5

we can all live on the moon

OPENROAD

sdonn wrote: »

We've seen what can happen when immigration is let spiral out of control. Look at the UK - there are parts of birmingham, etc where you may as well be in downtown Lagos. Moore Street is similar.

I have no problem with immigrants persé - a lot of them work harder than Irish people tend to. But when an influx of people from other cultures is so great that it overshadows our own culture - Moore St is the scene of some great history in Ireland, but is now avoided - then it needs curtailing or regulating.

Although I agree that a lot of Moore St's problems are caused by junkies. I'll be less PC about them, they should just all be killed (well, the ones who make our streets look bad).

Or Kilburn where you may as well be in downtown Dublin

DustyMan

mecanoman wrote: »

But some don't. They fiddle the system for all its worth, what are you

gonna do about it. There here to stay once they have kids(lots of them).

I was speaking to a Polish guy recently who did some work on my place. He said he'd never draw the dole and never has in Ireland. He just works works works. He's leaving later in the year as he reckons work for him here will have have completly dried up by then. He's going to Denmark where he says there is a lot of work now.
Of course people need the dole and there are many many genuine cases but ...
In fairness the amount of fiddling of the system Irish people themselves have done is unreal! (and it starts from the top!). Any Irish person who denies this is living in cloud cuckoo land. Not all do but a lot have. I know such a guy. As Irish as Irish can be but will milk the system for all its worth and will continue to do so. I knew some Irish in the UK who worked and claimed everything possible too! Worked full-time, claiming disability, social benefit, rent allowance et cetera. It's easy for us Irish to blame immigrants and say they fiddle the system but ..... we should look at ourselves first.

southsiderosie

sdonn wrote: »

We've seen what can happen when immigration is let spiral out of control. Look at the UK - there are parts of birmingham, etc where you may as well be in downtown Lagos. Moore Street is similar.

FFS. Really? Lagos? Last I checked there weren't open sewers and tin shacks on Moore Street.

Why are people so nasty about this shopping area? Frankly, I think there is a much better selection of shops in the Henry Street/Moore Street area than around Grafton Street. Plus whenever I go up Moore Street, there are a mix of Irish and new immigrant vendors and plenty of people around shopping, so I'm not sure what you mean by people avoiding it. The only issue there is the skanger/junkie element - and they are Irish.

Dudess

velvet5 wrote: »

we can all live on the moon

The government don't control the sky - what if you lived in a ballooooooon?!

Bazzo

I actually burst into laughter after reading the OP. Really, that is the first time I've quite literally LOL'd in a long time. Thank you.