Believers Vs Non-believers

demonspawn

Am I the only one who's sick to death of this debate? Believers say there is a god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Non-believers say there is no god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Can we all just grow up and admit that we just don't know and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything in the universe?

Everyone say it with me: "I don't know." Now say it again to be sure: "I don't know." Now doesn't that feel better? One less thing to fight over.

Ush1

We say there is almost certainly no god. There is evidence for that.

nibtrix

DOC09UNAM

there is certainly no god, and if perchance he does happen to exist, by some impossible means, he is an absolute cúntychops for all the things that have happened.

Dades

demonspawn wrote: »

Am I the only one who's sick to death of this debate? Believers say there is a god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Non-believers say there is no god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Can we all just grow up and admit that we just don't know and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything in the universe?

Believers believe there is a god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Non-believers believe there is no god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Most on both sides admit that knowledge is beyond our reach, so your point is moot.

Besides, what's wrong with healthy debate?

demonspawn

Ush1 wrote: »

We say there is almost certainly no god. There is evidence for that.

How do you provide evidence for the existence of nothing?

Alternatively, how do you prove that something does not exist if you don't know everything in the universe? God could be hiding in a corner somewhere with the lights turned off.

goingpostal

I would agree with you that the question "Does god exist?" is pointless. It can't be answered definitively yes or no. However, that doesn't mean that we should give both possible answers the same probability of being the correct answer. We can and should try to weigh up the evidence and try to make up our own minds as to how likely the existence of god is. I have arrived at the conclusion that the probability of god existing is the same as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny existing. I can't prove that they don't exist, but I don't see any reason why I should believe that they do exist, much less any evidence for their existence.
If I were to say that I had an invisible time machine that only I can see and you were to say that you don't believe me, and I was to say "Prove that I don't have one", you would laugh at me and rightly so. The entire burden of proof is on my shoulders to prove that I do have said invisible time machine. I feel that theists have a similar burden of proof on their shoulders to prove that whatever deity they claim to know, exists. I have never heard a convincing case put forward for the existence of god.

that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything in the universe?

Agreed. There is also nothing wrong with wanting to know a little bit more about the nature of our universe, rather than taking things on blind faith.

Ush1

demonspawn wrote: »

How do you provide evidence for the existence of nothing?

Alternatively, how do you prove that something does not exist if you don't know everything in the universe? God could be hiding in a corner somewhere with the lights turned off.

You don't prove it, you work out it's probability. No evidence for God = very low probability.

nibtrix

demonspawn wrote: »

God could be hiding in a corner somewhere with the lights turned off.

Sounds like something he'd do alright...

demonspawn

Dades wrote: »

Believers believe there is a god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Non-believers believe there is no god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Most on both sides admit that knowledge is beyond our reach, so your point is moot.

Besides, what's wrong with healthy debate?

This debate is clearly unhealthy and quite hostile. People are murdered over these beliefs.

If you want to believe in something based on the words of some man that may have existed over 2000 years ago, then do everyone a favor and keep your beliefs to yourself. We don't even know for sure if Jesus ever existed but we base everything around that so-called fact.

Zillah

demonspawn wrote: »

Can we all just grow up and admit that we just don't know and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything in the universe?

Uh, that's the atheist's position (or strong agnostic, depending on how you go about it).

As an atheist I say no one knows if there is a God or not, and considering there are an infinite number of supernatural things that could exist, the only reasonable position is to dismiss them all until we get some evidence. We don't know, stop making shit up.


Also, no, obviously the people posting on this board are not sick of the debate.

onlyrocknroll

demonspawn wrote: »

Am I the only one who's sick to death of this debate? Believers say there is a god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Non-believers say there is no god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Can we all just grow up and admit that we just don't know and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything in the universe?

Everyone say it with me: "I don't know." Now say it again to be sure: "I don't know." Now doesn't that feel better? One less thing to fight over.

I agree that the debate as you've described it here is definitely tedious, and this is the level of the debate you hear most often. But as an atheist I would say that my position is a little more sophisticated then you've put it, and to be fair I think that there are many believers who can argue for the existence of God better then you've given them credit for.

If you're interested why not read a little of what some of the great minds have to say on the subject? Obviously everyone knows of Richard Dawkins, or Betrand Russell's 'Why I am not a Christian' is a good read. Even wikipedia articles on arguments on the 'Existence of God' are pretty interesting too.

I'm only highlight 'if' because it's far from my place to tell you what to read, I think that's pretty arrogant. Most people (I think) don't have very strong opinions on the existence of God, and more power to them that's a very sensible attitude. I'm only interested out of intellectual curiosity, I don't really feel the need to badger others with my opinion.

That's why I completely agree with you that arguments between believers and non believers are tiresome and often pointless.

liamw

No one knows. Therefore, there is an infinitely small probability that any one specific deity exists. Yahweh, Allah, FSM and a magnet made of yogurt all have the same probability of exisiting in an unknown realm.

Dades

demonspawn wrote: »

This debate is clearly unhealthy and quite hostile. People are murdered over these beliefs.

People on Boards are rarely murdered. With the exception of the odd new poster who likes to think they know how things should work.

Ickle Magoo

I'm a non-believer and I don't say there is no god - with no definitive proof. I say I will remain an unbeliever until such a time as I am presented with any kind of evidence to warrant my becoming a believer.

Perhaps if you're bored of the debate, spending so much time on a forum dedicated to religious sceptics is a bit silly?

Turtwig

liamw wrote: »

a magnet made of yogurt all have the same probability of exisiting in an unknown realm.

Robin, you do realise that wombat and yoghurt image is going to become a viral eventually? I have already used it once today (due to the whole Hawkins stuff) and I love it - others do too.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'm a non-believer and I don't say there is no god - with no definitive proof. I say I will remain an unbeliever until such a time as I am presented with any kind of evidence to warrant my becoming a believer.

Perhaps if you're bored of the debate, spending so much time on a forum dedicated to religious sceptics is a bit silly?

Because I'm trying to work out why people are so obsessed with this subject, or is it people are just obsessed with being right regardless of the subject. I'm fascinated and repulsed at the same time.

liamw

Malty_T wrote: »

Robin, you do realise that wombat and yoghurt image is going to become a viral eventually? I have already used it once today (due to the whole Hawkins stuff) and I love it - others do too.

I forgot the wombat part

demonspawn

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

If you're interested why not read a little of what some of the great minds have to say on the subject? Obviously everyone knows of Richard Dawkins, or Betrand Russell's 'Why I am not a Christian' is a good read. Even wikipedia articles on arguments on the 'Existence of God' are pretty interesting too.

I'm only highlight 'if' because it's far from my place to tell you what to read, I think that's pretty arrogant. Most people (I think) don't have very strong opinions on the existence of God, and more power to them that's a very sensible attitude. I'm only interested out of intellectual curiosity, I don't really feel the need to badger others with my opinion.

That's why I completely agree with you that arguments between believers and non believers are tiresome and often pointless.

I've tried reading all different kinds of stuff but it all seems to be the same argument using bigger words. I used to be a devout atheist and was openly hostile to every other religion. I've had a lot of strange experiences in my life that have made me reconsider my position, but I will never subscribe to an organized religion. I believe they are just a tool to control the population.

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

Because I'm trying to work out why people are so obsessed with this subject, or is it people are just obsessed with being right regardless of the subject. I'm fascinated and repulsed at the same time.

I presume you are also on the politics forum asking why so many people who are disgusted with the state of the government and don't vote FF are posting there? Or perhaps why those in the soccer forum are so obsessed with what other teams are doing and how it affects them? Is it not fairly self-explanatory why religious sceptics would have an interest in religious scepticism?

liamw

demonspawn wrote: »

Because I'm trying to work out why people are so obsessed with this subject, or is it people are just obsessed with being right regardless of the subject. I'm fascinated and repulsed at the same time.

Can you imagine what the world would be like if nobody ever critized or questioned irrational beliefs?

sensibleken

demonspawn wrote: »

Everyone say it with me: "I don't know." Now say it again to be sure: "I don't know."

The spider baby, it has the body of a spider but the mind of a baby. It wouldnt really bite you unless it got a bit older

Ghestos

I olny belive what i see with my own eyes.Not what I hear from others,or what said in the books.Even it has lot of evidences.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I presume you are also on the politics forum asking why so many people who are disgusted with the state of the government and don't vote FF are posting there? Or perhaps why those in the soccer forum are so obsessed with what other teams are doing and how it affects them? Is it not fairly self-explanatory why religious sceptics would have an interest in religious scepticism?

Laws can change, politicians can be replaced and governments can swing from one extreme to the other. Soccer isn't worth even talking about. Hardcore sports fans are some of the most bizarre people I've ever encountered.

Religion, on the other hand, seems to be set in stone. For some reason unknown to me, people thinks it's perfectly acceptable to follow rules that no longer apply to modern society. The fact that our calendar is based on the life and death of one man is incredible.

To me, atheism is just another religion except there are no beliefs in anything. It's equally ludicrous as actual religion.

Zillah

Ghestos wrote: »

I olny belive what i see with my own eyes.Not what I hear from others,or what said in the books.Even it has lot of evidences.

Do you believe that Venezuela exists?

Zillah

demonspawn wrote: »

To me, atheism is just another religion except there are no beliefs in anything. It's equally ludicrous as actual religion.

In what way is atheism like a religion?

Would you consider your not believing in vampires to be a religion?

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

Laws can change, politicians can be replaced and governments can swing from one extreme to the other. Soccer isn't worth even talking about. Hardcore sports fans are some of the most bizarre people I've ever encountered.

Religion, on the other hand, seems to be set in stone. For some reason unknown to me, people thinks it's perfectly acceptable to follow rules that no longer apply to modern society. The fact that our calendar is based on the life and death of one man is incredible.

To me, atheism is just another religion except there are no beliefs in anything. It's equally ludicrous as actual religion.

Oh dear man of pasta - not yet another "atheism is just another religion" claim. As far as points on originality go you are on -300 if I'm being generous, it's ironic to say the least that you think the forum is full of boring debate. Perhaps if people did a quick search and stopped coming out with the same nonsense there would be more room for original debate?

Religion may be set in stone but the way it affects my life can certainly change and so can the opinions of those that read and partake in some of the discussions. I can't change the world doing crosswords either but that doesn't diminish the enjoyment I get from them.

pH

demonspawn wrote: »

Am I the only one who's sick to death of this debate? Believers say there is a god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Non-believers say there is no god with no definitive proof to back up their claim. Can we all just grow up and admit that we just don't know and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing everything in the universe?

Everyone say it with me: "I don't know." Now say it again to be sure: "I don't know." Now doesn't that feel better? One less thing to fight over.

Well that's not the debate is it really?

Theists are a lot more concerned than in the existence of God, there's a claim that a God exists, that he wants to be worshipped, that he has laid down some rules that need to be followed, and that all this makes a real difference.

To narrow it down to one of "does God exists" ends up back in the same old clichéd debates, far more interesting than the theist's claim that God exists, is their bigger claim: that of knowing the mind of God.

demonspawn

Zillah wrote: »

In what way is atheism like a religion?

Would you consider your not believing in vampires to be a religion?

A bunch of people sitting around claiming they know the truth without providing any real evidence to support their claim...nah, that's nothing like religion at all. What was I thinking? :rolleyes:

As far as actual structures; no atheism isn't much like religion, but the mentality sure is.

demonspawn

pH wrote: »

To narrow it down to one of "does God exists" ends up back in the same old clichéd debates, far more interesting than the theist's claim that God exists, is their bigger claim: that of knowing the mind of God.

I'd rather not go into the sheer arrogance required by religious people that claim to know what this God wants us to do. It's incredibly infuriating to say the least.

Ickle Magoo

Atheism is just a lack of belief in a god/s, there is no requirement to have absolute surety that there is no god and most atheists don't - in saying that, I've put the likelihood of a god existing in the same basket as fairies and unicorns rather than 50-50; though the minute that any evidence of any of those things presents itself, I'll be the first in the queue of devout believers.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Atheism is just a lack of belief in a god/s, there is no requirement to have absolute surety that there is no god and most atheists don't - in saying that, I've put the likelihood of a god existing in the same basket as fairies and unicorns rather than 50-50; though the minute that any evidence of any of those things presents itself, I'll be the first in the queue of devout believers.

I know there's a lot of atheists that don't really care so much but then you have people like Hitchens who have made it their life's work to tear down all religions in the name of atheism. It's just infuriating the level of arrogance needed to be so sure of something you really have no evidence of.

Ickle Magoo

Meh, I think Hitchens et al just point out the rather glaring lack of evidence to support the position that there IS a god - and then go on to point out the glaring inaccuracies and double-speak in various religions that expect the rest of us to follow them and bow to their agendas.

Religions have and do a lot of harm, many of their beliefs and dogmas are unpleasant, discriminatory and deliberately attempt to infringe on the rights and freedoms of others -why shouldn't that side of religion be highlighted and opposed? For too long religion and faith has been some kind of untouchable power that demanded respect and questioning their motives and behaviour would result in social castigation. I don't see that all sides of religion being shown nor that it has to earn and maintain respect in society now is a bad thing, especially given what's gone on when they had undue deference.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Religions have and do a lot of harm, many of their beliefs and dogmas are unpleasant, discriminatory and deliberately attempt to infringe on the rights and freedoms of others -why shouldn't that side of religion be highlighted and opposed? For too long religion and faith has been some kind of untouchable power that demanded respect and questioning their motives and behaviour would result in social castigation. I don't see that all sides of religion being shown nor that it has to earn and maintain respect in society now is a bad thing, especially given what's gone on when they had undue deference.

Because as much as I dislike religion, many people need it to explain their existence. Not everyone is as capable of rationalizing what we're doing here. In fact, if you think about it too long you'll probably go insane. It's happened to me once or twice already.

I long for the day when people will just let other people be people and stop trying to interfere in their personal lives. Believe what you want, just stfu about it.

Edit: The one question that always got me stuck was "What's the point?" Ok, it's fine to believe the Big Bang and evolution and all that, but what's the point of it all? It'd make no difference if none of this ever existed in the first place. Or is there actually a point to it all? Who knows?

demonspawn

demonspawn wrote: »

I long for the day when people will just let other people be people and stop trying to interfere in their personal lives. Believe what you want, just stfu about it.

I sincerely hope that when I go and click on the christianity and islam fora, that I will see your same sentiments expressed in a new thread.

Here goes...
No, apparently not.
So while the atheists of this forum by and large would prefer to live and let live but instead have a lot of catholic interference in our everyday lives, we're still the ones who get lectured by you. Interesting.

demonspawn

bluewolf wrote: »

I sincerely hope that when I go and click on the christianity and islam fora, that I will see your same sentiments expressed in a new thread.

Here goes...
No, apparently not.
So while the atheists of this forum by and large would prefer to live and let live but instead have a lot of catholic interference in our everyday lives, we're still the ones who get lectured by you. Interesting.

No, I can't do that on their forums. I think A&A is populated with more rational people that can actually take this criticism and discuss it tbh. And I'm not lecturing, or not trying to. And believe me, there's more religious people on this forum than the actual religious ones. Ironic? Yeah, a little bit.

MagicMarker

Zillah wrote: »

Do you believe that Venezuela exists?

Wouldn't you feel stupid if he was Boards.ie's only poster from Venezuela?

Dades

demonspawn, you should really hang about and see what people talk about here on a more regular basis, or at least take the time to learn what atheism is - and more importantly isn't.

This forum might better be titled "Non-believers Who Give a Damn About Religious and Secular Matters", as Atheism and Agnosticism, and it is our interest in the subject that defines us not the titles.

You're rejection of other people's interests in subjects that don't interest you is a little, well, daft. I'm sure you have a passion for something that a lot of us here would care little about, no?

demonspawn

Dades wrote: »

demonspawn, you should really hang about and see what people talk about here on a more regular basis, or at least take the time to learn what atheism is - and more importantly isn't.

Your assertion that I'm agnostic, but may be an atheist is the same as saying all these atheists may actually be agnostic. It goes either way really.

This forum might better be titled "Non-believers Who Give a Damn About Religious and Secular Matters", as Atheism and Agnosticism, and it is our interest in the subject that defines us not the titles.

You're rejection of other people's interests in subjects that don't interest you is a little, well, daft. I'm sure you have a passion for something that a lot of us here would care little about, no?

I do actually care about religious matters. They affect me every day in this country. I'm also very interested in this subject, I wouldnt be here if I wasn't. I've made several posts in the Islam section as some parts of Islam are very interesting to me. I'm 30 years old and have already had 2 mental breakdowns (proper meltdowns here) trying to figure out my place in the universe.

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

Because as much as I dislike religion, many people need it to explain their existence. Not everyone is as capable of rationalizing what we're doing here. In fact, if you think about it too long you'll probably go insane. It's happened to me once or twice already.

Well, I like thinking about it and so fair I'm just fine thank you *twitch*

demonspawn wrote: »

I long for the day when people will just let other people be people and stop trying to interfere in their personal lives. Believe what you want, just stfu about it.

I agree and when they do this board will probably be much quieter...you have to remember that while the posting on A&A is interesting and funny and as a minority it's nice to have a natter with people about religious issues without having to kick-start a potential hornets nest with ones nearest and dearest - ultimately it's possibly a fraction of entire posts and an infinitesimally small part of life.

demonspawn wrote: »

Edit: The one question that always got me stuck was "What's the point?" Ok, it's fine to believe the Big Bang and evolution and all that, but what's the point of it all? It'd make no difference if none of this ever existed in the first place. Or is there actually a point to it all? Who knows?

I think the question that there has to be a point is a very theistic perspective and one that many people have because they've been brought up having been told that there simply must be one. I don't think there is a point - life and the universe just IS. I don't think there was some great plan that resulted in the world we see, I think it much more likely that there was a series of events over billions of years; each being a tiny link in the chain and rather than being the end result, the result so far is what we see today. On the plus side, I certainly don't find that my life is devoid of purpose or fulfilment just because I lack belief that a man in the sky is pulling the strings.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Well, I like thinking about it and so fair I'm just fine thank you *twitch*

hehe I was talking more about the folks who've spent their whole lives believing in God, then they start to doubt their faith. It can be a pretty disturbing experience for some. Jut think The Matrix.

I agree and when they do this board will probably be much quieter...you have to remember that while the posting on A&A is interesting and funny and as a minority it's nice to have a natter with people about religious issues without having to kick-start a potential hornets nest with ones nearest and dearest - ultimately it's possibly a fraction of entire posts and an infinitesimally small part of life.

I'm all for rational discussion, it's just the complete intolerance and hatred you see from certain people and their religious/political/educational leaders just allow this to happen. That's what winds me up. I have yet to see it too bad here on boards, but it's right these under the surface.

I think the question that there has to be a point is a very theistic perspective and one that many people have because they've been brought up having been told that there simply must be one. I don't think there is a point - life and the universe just IS. I don't think there was some great plan that resulted in the world we see, I think it much more likely that there was a series of events over billions of years; each being a tiny link in the chain and rather than being the end result, the result so far is what we see today. On the plus side, I certainly don't find that my life is devoid of purpose or fulfilment just because I lack belief that a man in the sky is pulling the strings.

I thought it was more of a philosophical question really. You don't have to believe in God to want to understand the meaning of life and existence. The answer "It just IS." just isn't enough sometimes. You think of the billions of years it took Earth to get where it is today, all the possibilities that could have happened, and you look at all the beauty that surrounds us today (or should surround us) and you can't help but ask "Why?".

Sam Vimes

demonspawn wrote: »

I know there's a lot of atheists that don't really care so much but then you have people like Hitchens who have made it their life's work to tear down all religions in the name of atheism. It's just infuriating the level of arrogance needed to be so sure of something you really have no evidence of.

Take for example the cosmological argument for the existence of god. You don't have to know for an absolute fact that there is no form of higher being whatsoever to see the massive gaping flaws in that argument and point them out to people. The same can be done for every argument I've ever heard anyone give for the existence of god. You cannot prove that anything doesn't exist but you can place it in the same category as goblins, unicorns and fairies by showing that there is no reason to believe in it other than wishful thinking and dodgy reasoning

Sam Vimes

demonspawn wrote: »

I thought it was more of a philosophical question really. You don't have to believe in God to want to understand the meaning of life and existence. The answer "It just IS." just isn't enough sometimes.

Well I'm afraid it'll have to do. Your desire for there to be a "why" does not mean there is one

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

hehe I was talking more about the folks who've spent their whole lives believing in God, then they start to doubt their faith. It can be a pretty disturbing experience for some. Jut think The Matrix.

I've never been anything other than an atheist from a family of religious apathetics, agnostics and atheists so fortunately not a disturbing experience I've ever had to live through.

demonspawn wrote: »

I'm all for rational discussion, it's just the complete intolerance and hatred you see from certain people and their religious/political/educational leaders just allow this to happen. That's what winds me up. I have yet to see it too bad here on boards, but it's right these under the surface.

The world is full of scary people with scary beliefs about what others should and shouldn't do - whether they be racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic, religious extremists, whatever. Just content yourself that there are plenty of moderates around as well, you just tend not to find them spewing hate-filled rantings or waving placards at various junctures.

demonspawn wrote: »

I thought it was more of a philosophical question really. You don't have to believe in God to want to understand the meaning of life and existence. The answer "It just IS." just isn't enough sometimes. You think of the billions of years it took Earth to get where it is today, all the possibilities that could have happened, and you look at all the beauty that surrounds us today (or should surround us) and you can't help but ask "Why?".

A meaning for life and existence would infer to me that we are following a blue-print of sorts and working towards whatever plans have been made - which would point to some kind of deistic intervention or creator, no? I don't view the universe in terms of where we are today as being in some way the pinnacle of what the universe exists for nor that the universe happened the way it did so that one day today could exist - I view it the other way around.

I have no idea what conditions existed prior to the big bang and nor can I give you comprehensive evidence of how life began - but equally it's impossible for me to slot in some unevidenced assumption to those gaps in my knowledge and merrily to sit back and consider my thirst for knowledge quenched and the questions answered - so the only position available to me is as a de-facto atheist...with a healthy dislike/scepticism of organised religion but I'm pretty sure I'd have that even if god took me to dinner tonight. :cool:

liamw

demonspawn wrote: »

I long for the day when people will just let other people be people and stop trying to interfere in their personal lives. Believe what you want, just stfu about it.

demonspawn wrote: »

I do actually care about religious matters. They affect me every day in this country.

So you almost answered this yourself. Most people don't interfere in others' personal lives or have no interest in doing so. When religion influences public decisions or crosses beyond private beliefs, then we have issues.

When people push religious beliefs or agendas in the public sphere, then they should expect to be critized and asked for evidence just like in any other area of discourse.

I think your problem is that you seem to see religious belief as purely a private and personal thing. Unfortunately it's not.

Zillah

MagicMarker wrote: »

Wouldn't you feel stupid if he was Boards.ie's only poster from Venezuela?

That had occured to me, but I decided to take a risk and assume he's never been, for the sake of brevity. Poetic license if you will :pac:

Zillah

demonspawn wrote: »

A bunch of people sitting around claiming they know the truth without providing any real evidence to support their claim...nah, that's nothing like religion at all. What was I thinking? :rolleyes:

As far as actual structures; no atheism isn't much like religion, but the mentality sure is.

You, ah, ignored half of my very short post there. I'll just ask the question again: Would you consider your not believing in vampires to be a religion?

You sit around claiming to know the truth about vampires not existing without providing any real evidence to support your claim...what's the difference? I'll tell you the difference: Belief in God is more popular than belief in vampires, and so you've been duped into thinking it is somehow more special or worthy of your consideration. Both claims are based on nothing more than hearsay and legend, neither have any basis in evidence or reason, and we both, quite rightly, do not believe them. We're not claiming we know for a fact that they do not exist, but we remain sceptical enough to reasonably say that we do not believe these things exist, and will not change that position until evidence is given.

(Of course, feel free to exchange 'vampire' for anything else there [ghosts, aliens, chemtrails :pac:] if you do happen to believe in vampires)

demonspawn

Zillah wrote: »

You, ah, ignored half of my very short post there. I'll just ask the question again: Would you consider your not believing in vampires to be a religion?

Yeah sorry, my doctor told me I can only answer five ridiculous questions a day. If you wanna wait til tomorrow....

You sit around claiming to know the truth about vampires not existing without providing any real evidence to support your claim...what's the difference? I'll tell you the difference: Belief in God is more popular than belief in vampires, and so you've been duped into thinking it is somehow more special or worthy of your consideration. Both claims are based on nothing more than hearsay and legend, neither have any basis in evidence or reason, and we both, quite rightly, do not believe them. We're not claiming we know for a fact that they do not exist, but we remain sceptical enough to reasonably say that we do not believe these things exist, and will not change that position until evidence is given.

So your agnostic. You haven't ruled out the possibility of God but choose to wait until further evidence presents itself. Ok, so what's the problem? Atheists believe in nothing, or they don't believe in anything. One or the other I'm not entirely sure. But they don't accept the possibility of God.

(Of course, feel free to exchange 'vampire' for anything else there [ghosts, aliens, chemtrails :pac:] if you do happen to believe in vampires)

Feel free to debunk my chemtrail evidence. :rolleyes: Nobody else wants to touch it.

Zillah

demonspawn wrote: »

But they don't accept the possibility of God.

This is incorrect. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. I do not believe in God. I am an atheist.

So are you, it appears.

Also, do you accept that you are a member of the not believing in vampires religion? It is just as much of a religion as atheism is.

demonspawn

Zillah wrote: »

This is incorrect. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. I do not believe in God. I am an atheist.

So are you, it appears.

Also, do you accept that you are a member of the not believing in vampires religion? It is just as much of a religion as atheism is.

What is wrong with you? Do you not understand what I am typing? It's like speaking with a four year old.

Zillah wrote: »

We're not claiming we know for a fact that they do not exist, but we remain sceptical enough to reasonably say that we do not believe these things exist, and will not change that position until evidence is given.

Zillah wrote: »

This is incorrect. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. I do not believe in God. I am an atheist.

I grow tired of your double-speak white devil! Be gone from this place of holy solitude!! You're trying to melt my brain, aren't you? You either believe or you don't believe. An atheist knows for a fact that God does not exist, or at least as much as one could know anything for a fact. No amount of evidence will change their mind. If God knocks on your door with a pint of milk you'll try to explain it with science.

demonspawn

Zillah wrote: »

This is incorrect. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. I do not believe in God. I am an atheist.

I believe in the possibility of a god, though I couldn't be bothered either way. I am an agnostic. Now stop putting words in my mouth. I know who I am and I'm starting to get annoyed with your silly arguments.