Believers Vs Non-believers

demonspawn

MagicMarker wrote: »

What scientific evidence do we have for the existence of aliens and their planned genetic engineering of the human race over billions of years?

I believe that evidence exists but is being kept from the general population. Just because I can't show it to you personally doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just watch the video if you really want to know why I believe in this stuff.

Edit: Strangely enough I believe in the story of Adam and Eve. I believe it was a story given to us so we could eventually discover our true origins. That story is older than Judaism, so it must have some from somewhere. Several creation stories from all over the world are remarkably similar.

Ickle Magoo

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would actully think sceptical scientific people such as yourselves would not see the idea of extra-terrestrial life as crazy.

Scientifically, there's an extrememely high probability, there's an awful lot of evidence...

I think the idea that life exists elsewhere in the universe is very likely, given how vast the universe is. However, the idea that aliens with the technology necessary to traverse space land their flying saucers on earth, helped the ancient egyptians to build tombs and holiday at roswell while all the governments conspire to hush it up and no tenable evidence out-with youtube and CT forums exists - no, that's tinfoil hat territory.

midlandsmissus

Zillah wrote: »

So you accept my point about being an avampirist I take it?

No I wasn't referring to the possibility of you offending the poor avampirists , my whole point about you 'ridiculing other people's beliefs' was in reference to to you saying that I read 'sensationalist rags', which I took offence at.

If you've been reading something that is claiming that the pyramids were built by aliens then you're reading sensationalist rags, or their online equivalent.



Yes, and the probability is equally low that we'd ever be able to interact with any of them.

Define sensationalist; something you disagree with?

liamw

Zillah wrote: »

You...cannot...be...serious...

lol DennyFromSpace has over 2 thousand subscribers!!

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

I believe that evidence exists but is being kept from the general population. Just because I can't show it to you personally doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just watch the video if you really want to know why I believe in this stuff.

Edit: Strangely enough I believe in the story of Adam and Eve. I believe it was a story given to us so we could eventually discover our true origins. That story is older than Judaism, so it must have some from somewhere. Several creation stories from all over the world are remarkably similar.

You think a woman was created from the rib of a man? Or you think that's code for aliens?

The Mad Hatter

*Reads thread*

...

...

That's it, I'm going for a pint.

demonspawn

And to answer you question directly.

I believe in something. It's something that I believe can be proven in time.

Atheists believe in nothing. The existence of nothing can never be proven.

That is how I am different from an atheist.

I'm not sure that makes much sense but I'm really hungry and my brain hurts.:p

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

You think a woman was created from the rib of a man? Or you think that's code for aliens?

I think "Adam and Eve" were the first successful attempt to create an alien/simian hybrid. Perhaps these aliens are unable to survive on the surface of Earth themselves so they created a hybrid that can live here safely. It's just nature doing what nature does best. Reproduce and multiply.

midlandsmissus

demonspawn wrote: »

I never said they engineered everything on the planet. Everything else evolved naturally. I just believe that humans did not. Read about the Great Pyramid of Giza and all the mathematics, astrology, and technological knowledge it would have taken to build. A civilization like that of the ancient Egyptians just could not have built that. Egyptian tombs were custom built for the person they were to house. The planning for the Great Pyramid alone would have taken several lifetimes. Also, nobody was ever found in the Great Pyramid. It's been empty all this time. What was it for?

Edit: But yes....whole other thread there. And I'm a city boy currently stuck in a bog. Sorry to disappoint!

Well you're very welcome to the bog ,

And I really like alot of what you have to say, expecially your views on religion being used as a means for control, aliens and gentic engineering, and your opinions on atheists (Hi guys! ).

I'd be really interested to have a proper chat with you about it all some time, pm me if you're interested

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

And to answer you question directly.

I believe in something. It's something that I believe can be proven in time.

Atheists believe in nothing. The existence of nothing can never be proven.

That is how I am different from an atheist.

I'm not sure that makes much sense but I'm really hungry and my brain hurts.:p

It's not really believing in nothing or believing in the existence of nothing which doesn't actually make a whole lot of sense - it's the lack of supporting evidence means there is nothing to believe IN, as far as I'm concerned.

It's not about having a faith or religion of atheism, it's the term that's left only by virtue of not being a theist. Without theists there would be no such thing as atheists.

wrote:

I think "Adam and Eve" were the first successful attempt to create an alien/simian hybrid. Perhaps these aliens are unable to survive on the surface of Earth themselves so they created a hybrid that can live here safely. It's just nature doing what nature does best. Reproduce and multiply.

Riiiiiii-iiiiiight.

Zillah

midlandsmissus wrote: »

No I wasn't referring to the possibility of you offending the poor avampirists , my whole point about you 'ridiculing other people's beliefs' was in reference to to you saying that I read 'sensationalist rags', which I took offence at.

Look, I honestly just don't care even a little bit if you're offended. Let's stay on topic. You were denigrating atheists for constantly talking about God and for defining themselves as atheists, do you accept my point that that is because religion is so common?

Define sensationalist; something you disagree with?

Well I suppose we can start with a simple dictionary definition:

subject matter, language, or style producing or designed to produce startling or thrilling impressions or to excite and please vulgar taste.

So in this case it is far more thrilling and exciting to throw disparate rumours and misinterpreted evidence together and paint a picture with aliens influencing human culture than it is to accept the anthropological consensus that the development of agriculture led to more sedentary people with far more time available to them for learning, building and producing.

That was quite a sentence.

But of course down to earth books full of reasonable conclusions and predictable explanations do not sell nearly as well as books that conjure images of aliens arriving on earth and teaching primitive man how to perform miracles. I get it, I really do. I love Stargate, this sort of stuff is exciting and fun to think about, but it's simply not true.

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

I believe that evidence exists but is being kept from the general population. Just because I can't show it to you personally doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just watch the video if you really want to know why I believe in this stuff.

Edit: Strangely enough I believe in the story of Adam and Eve. I believe it was a story given to us so we could eventually discover our true origins. That story is older than Judaism, so it must have some from somewhere. Several creation stories from all over the world are remarkably similar.

So you believe there is plenty of scientific evidence that supports your beliefs, you just don't know what it is and have no access to it at all?

midlandsmissus

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

*Reads thread*

...

...

That's it, I'm going for a pint.

I think it was one of our better discussions! We transcended the whole :

'There's no god', 'Then why does it bother you so much if it doesn't existl' naaah! that usually occurs....

I could use a pint too tho...:)

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Riiiiiii-iiiiiight.

When they come down and start cracking the whips, I'm gonna tell them what you said.

2012's only 16 months away!

Zillah

demonspawn wrote: »

I'm not sure that makes much sense

It does not.


I'm not sure if you were being rhetorical or literal but I decided better to be safe than sorry.

liamw

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I'd be really interested to have a proper chat with you about it all some time, pm me if you're interested

Imagine little demonspawn junior telling all the other kids at school about the aliens.. they will be fascinated.. until they visit that youtube channel that is

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

When they come down and start cracking the whips, I'm gonna tell them what you said.

2012's only 16 months away!

Yeah, see Zillah's sig for that one... :P

midlandsmissus

Zillah wrote: »

Look, I honestly just don't care even a little bit if you're offended. Let's stay on topic. You were denigrating atheists for constantly talking about God and for defining themselves as atheists, do you accept my point that that is because religion is so common?



Well I suppose we can start with a simple dictionary definition:

So in this case it is far more thrilling and exciting to throw disparate rumours and misinterpreted evidence together and paint a picture with aliens influencing human culture than it is to accept the anthropological consensus that the development of agriculture led to more sedentary people with far more time available to them for learning, building and producing.

That was quite a sentence.

But of course down to earth books full of reasonable conclusions and predictable explanations do not sell nearly as well as books that conjure images of aliens arriving on earth and teaching primitive man how to perform miracles. I get it, I really do. I love Stargate, this sort of stuff is exciting and fun to think about, but it's simply not true.

You have a habit of completely missing the point.

I'm not that offended, and I couldn't care less if you're bothered or not. :P(Avante Garde! - Lame inside joke) You misunderstood me in your last post about what I was referring to with 'ridiculing other's beliefs', and I was clarifying that it was the 'sensationalist rag' part that riled me.

That's your interpretation. I would see a good example of sensationalism as Orwell's broadcast, i.e people hearing one thing, and jumping to conclusions, without giving it any analysis or thought.
In relation to aliens: seeing one scaremongering article, believing it, and jumping to conclusions without any research.

I wouldn't call all the research I have done 'reading sensationalist rags'.

The Mad Hatter

midlandsmissus wrote: »

That's your interpretation. I would see a good example of sensationalism as Orwell's broadcast, i.e people hearing one thing, and jumping to conclusions, without giving it any analysis or thought.

George Orwell =/= Orson Welles.

(Incidentally, the broadcast in question can be downloaded here. It is a masterpiece.

midlandsmissus

liamw wrote: »

Imagine little demonspawn junior telling all the other kids at school about the aliens.. they will be fascinated.. until they visit that youtube channel that is

Haha

This was an interesting thread nevertheless don't you think?

Zillah

Could you point me towards some respectable publications that show their evidence for alien involvement in our history?

liamw

Zillah wrote: »

I love Stargate, this sort of stuff is exciting and fun to think about, but it's simply not true.

Guess who else loves that sort of TV programme?

DennyFromSpace2

Films:
All startrek`s and starwars - 2001 and 2010 - and many many more..
Music:
hardcore - trance
Books:
The Bible still the best..

midlandsmissus

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

George Orwell =/= Orson Welles.

(Incidentally, the broadcast in question can be downloaded here. It is a masterpiece.

Morto

Had a niggling feeling as I was typing that post that I'd made some mistake...

Nevertheless I'll leave it up and hang my head in shame!

Zillah

liamw wrote: »

Guess who else loves that sort of TV programme?

DennyFromSpace2

Films:
All startrek`s and starwars - 2001 and 2010 - and many many more..
Music:
hardcore - trance
Books:
The Bible still the best..

I want you to stop reading that channel liam, I don't think it's good for you.

The Mad Hatter

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Morto

Had a niggling feeling as I was typing that post that I'd made some mistake...

Nevertheless I'll leave it up and hang my head in shame!

Don't worry - I used to mix them up when I was younger too. It'd be pretty bad if I did now, though, as I'm a huge fan of both. And yes, you should listen to most of the plays on that site, especially War of the Worlds (which, to confuse matters further, was adapted from the book by H. G. Wells).

midlandsmissus

Zillah wrote: »

Could you point me towards some respectable publications that show their evidence for alien involvement in our history?

I would think that this is a particularly interesting video. I haven't watched it in a while, if I remember rightly the prime minister takes a while to get into it, so please watch it to the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FULhljVNFI

Zillah

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

George Orwell =/= Orson Welles.

(Incidentally, the broadcast in question can be downloaded here. It is a masterpiece.

I'm getting 5k/s from these guys. Anyone got this on rapidshare or something?

The Mad Hatter

Zillah wrote: »

I'm getting 5k/s from these guys. Anyone got this on rapidshare or something?

BitTorrent from the same site here.

demonspawn

liamw wrote: »

Imagine little demonspawn junior telling all the other kids at school about the aliens.. they will be fascinated.. until they visit that youtube channel that is

Did you even bother to watch any of the 400+ videos he has put up? He's had his channels suspended 5-6 times now or something and every time he puts the videos back up. A lot of them are Discovery videos about all sorts of interesting stuff. Maybe you should take a minute and give them a chance before dismissing them so quickly. Oh wait, your an atheist. It's in your blood to just dismiss everything you don't agree with. :rolleyes:


Oh, and Don't dis Denny. He's a cool guy and has taken a lot of time to show people stuff they don't normally see. :mad:

Zillah

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would think that this is a particularly interesting video. I haven't watched it in a while, if I remember rightly the prime minister takes a while to get into it, so please watch it to the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FULhljVNFI

Seriously? You claim you've done loads of personal research into aliens interferring with the development of ancient civilisations and the best you can do is a youtube link to a man making completely unsupported claims about UFOs?

caseyann

I would say it this way,what does it matter to non believers if believers believe,because non believers its not hurting you or insulting you for believers to believe and try to show you their belief,but non believers are insulting and upsetting people who love their faith as it is a spiritual part of believers,non believers dont love not believing so why do non believers care at all.

midlandsmissus

Zillah wrote: »

Seriously? You claim you've done loads of personal research into aliens interferring with the development of ancient civilisations and the best you can do is a youtube link to a man making completely unsupported claims about UFOs?

Why say 'seriously' with everything? Obviously I'm serious or I wouldn't have put it up.
Hs position as defense minister, gives his witness account extra weight than the man on the street, do you agree?

demonspawn

caseyann wrote: »

I would say it this way,what does it matter to non believers if believers believe,because non believers its not hurting you or insulting you for believers to believe and try to show you their belief,but non believers are insulting and upsetting people who love their faith as it is a spiritual part of believers,non believers dont love not believing so why do non believers care at all.

I agree. Let people believe what they want to believe. If it makes someone happy to believe in a god, who is anyone to tell them they're wrong? Organized religion is terrible, but there's nothing wrong with having faith in a creator.

Edit: And here's an interesting video I found randomly. It's pretty cool if you actually watch it. It's not about religion, just watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwAwMSra9U

The Mad Hatter

caseyann wrote: »

I would say it this way,what does it matter to non believers if believers believe,because non believers its not hurting you or insulting you for believers to believe and try to show you their belief,but non believers are insulting and upsetting people who love their faith as it is a spiritual part of believers,non believers dont love not believing so why do non believers care at all.

Do you really want to go down this road?

Sam Vimes

caseyann wrote: »

I would say it this way,what does it matter to non believers if believers believe,because non believers its not hurting you or insulting you for believers to believe and try to show you their belief,but non believers are insulting and upsetting people who love their faith as it is a spiritual part of believers,non believers dont love not believing so why do non believers care at all.

The prevalence of believers on one side of the debate on this thread is one reason

The Mad Hatter

demonspawn wrote: »

I agree. Let people believe what they want to believe. If it makes someone happy to believe in a god, who is anyone to tell them they're wrong? Organized religion is terrible, but there's nothing wrong with having faith in a creator.

See, I don't think most atheists have a problem with people having a personal belief, but so many religious people are unwilling to let it stop there.

Ickle Magoo

caseyann wrote: »

I would say it this way,what does it matter to non believers if believers believe,because non believers its not hurting you or insulting you for believers to believe and try to show you their belief,but non believers are insulting and upsetting people who love their faith as it is a spiritual part of believers,non believers dont love not believing so why do non believers care at all.

Perhaps the atheist and agnostic forum is the wrong place to be reading if you find people with religious skepticism offensive?

The Mad Hatter

Or, to put it another way, we can all just get along when the religious get their collective nose out of our business.

Ickle Magoo

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Or, to put it another way, we can all just get along when the religious get their collective nose out of our business.

Does that rather ironically include telling the A&A forum what it should or shouldn't be discussing...

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps the atheist and agnostic forum is the wrong place to be reading if you find people with religious skepticism offensive?

So then the atheist and agnostic crew should stay out of Christianity forums and Islam forums? And the world will be bliss again. The title of thread is relevant to my post
Why even discuss it if you dont believe in it lmao:D

midlandsmissus

Thanks for all the contributions to a great thread lads,

good night

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps the atheist and agnostic forum is the wrong place to be reading if you find people with religious skepticism offensive?

Question the religion, not the faith.

Edit: brb food and Youtube.

Zillah

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why say 'seriously' with everything? Obviously I'm serious or I wouldn't have put it up.
Hs position as defense minister, gives his witness account extra weight than the man on the street, do you agree?

It would give his testimony slightly more weight, yes. But not enough to remove the burden of proof. He doesn't even make any specific claims, it's just vague ramblings about 'visitors' and the danger of nuclear weapons.

You said you've done loads of research. What books have you read? What articles?

caseyann wrote: »

I would say it this way,what does it matter to non believers if believers believe,because non believers its not hurting you or insulting you for believers to believe and try to show you their belief,but non believers are insulting and upsetting people who love their faith as it is a spiritual part of believers,non believers dont love not believing so why do non believers care at all.

If believers had personal beliefs and didn't force them on others then we'd have no problem. Instead they seem to be unable to stop forcing their beliefs on others (look at the influence religion has on divorce, abortion, gay marriage, condom use).

Aside from that, they're just wrong. People believing nonsense irritates me, and doubly so when they can't stop telling everyone about their amazing insight into the fundamental nature of the universe, or when they attack scientific advancements made by people who actually worked very hard to reach their conclusions.

demonspawn wrote: »

Question the religion, not the faith.

Faith is willful ignorance, it is the surrender of reason, the abdication of the mind. I not only question it, I condemn it as stupid and dangerous.

Sam Vimes

caseyann wrote: »

Why even discuss it if you dont believe in it lmao:D

Again, one example is the religious people right now on After Hours telling us why gay people should be denied their human rights. When people try to justify prejudice because of what their old book says, or worse, pretend that they have other reasons for thinking the way they do when it's painfully obvious that their view is based on their religious beliefs, I find it very hard to stop the term "sky fairy" from coming out

caseyann

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The prevalence of believers on one side of the debate on this thread is one reason

Sam i cant see that i am banned

Ickle Magoo

caseyann wrote: »

So then the atheist and agnostic crew should stay out of Christianity forums and Islam forums? And the world will be bliss again. The title of thread is relevant to my post
Why even discuss it if you dont believe in it lmao:D

I wouldn't go onto any religious forum and demand they stop discussing something, no, certainly not. It's not my place to decide what people discuss, as long as it's within the forum rules. It's the equivalent of me going onto the christianity forum and demand they stop talking about non-believers going to hell or whatever.

I'm all for people posting wherever they like, it's just a tad ridiculous to go onto a forum dedicated to something or people you don't agree with and then suggest what they are discussing is offensive to you and suggesting they discuss something else. This is a forum for people with religious skepticism, it's surely not a shocker that you find religion being discussed with skepticism?

caseyann

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Again, one example is the religious people right now on After Hours telling us why gay people should be denied their human rights. When people try to justify prejudice because of what their old book says, or worse, pretend that they have other reasons for thinking the way they do when it's painfully obvious that the reason is based on their religious beliefs, I find it very hard to stop the term "sky fairy" from coming out

They are letting the old prejudice influence their minds.It has nothing to do with their faith.Faith and belief is something much deeper than a book of words.That is misinterpreted and can mean so many different things.To make those prejudice satisfy their own personal needs or fears.Not what faith or god teaches at all.

Sam Vimes

caseyann wrote: »

Sam i cant see that i am banned

It's the gay marriage thread. One of many issues where religious people try to impose the prejudices of bronze age primitives on 21st century society because they believe these backward scribblings are the word of god.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I wouldn't go onto any religious forum and demand they stop discussing something, no, certainly not. It's not my place to decide what people discuss, as long as it's within the forum rules. It's the equivalent of me going onto the christianity forum and demand they stop talking about non-believers going to hell or whatever.

I'm all for people posting wherever they like, it's just a tad ridiculous to go onto a forum dedicated to something or people you don't agree with and then suggest what they are discussing is offensive to you and suggesting they discuss something else. This is a forum for people with religious skepticism, it's surely not a shocker that you find religion being discussed with skepticism?

I am talking about the down right rudeness of people who dont believe and attack someones belief which is fundamentally very important to them on a personal level.
I could care less who believes or who doesn't, doesn't mean you call it fairytales and rubbish and ignorant.I dont find it offensive here where did i say that????

caseyann

Sam Vimes wrote: »

It's the gay marriage thread. One of many issues where religious people try to impose the prejudices of bronze age primitives on 21st century society because they believe these backward scribblings are the word of god.

Those backward scribblings in them have alot of truth and love and good in them.But then there is always going to be someone who write their own opinions in on top of the book.As Jesus or god didnt write it himself.
Lets say for instance one person who wrote on part decided i dont like gays so i will stick it in the book not allowed.Condoms werent even around then so i dont know how that is in the book.I havent read the bible.But can you show me were gay marriage is frowned upon?