Believers Vs Non-believers

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So it's Ok to get permanently banned from a forum for repeatedly being racist (I'm presuming that's what it was from the feedback thread you started) - but an atheist saying that religion is based on fairy-tales is a no-no? I've heard it all now.

Stop trying to incite something thats not there.And you have no right to call me a racist you dont know me.Take your personal attitude somewhere else.

Ickle Magoo

Incite? I didn't call you anything, I assumed that's what your ban was for based on a feedback thread you started and your own comments in this thread that you are perma banned from a forum renowned for it's leniency in most matters - and yet you object to atheists and agnostics on their own dedicated forum discussing issues pertinent to them that don't break the rules. Deliciously irony.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Incite? I didn't call you anything, I assumed that's what your ban was for based on a feedback thread you started and your own comments in this thread that you are perma banned from a forum renowned for it's leniency in most matters - and yet you object to atheists and agnostics on their own dedicated forum discussing issues pertinent to them that don't break the rules. Deliciously irony.

My first post had nothing more than a comment made in relation to the Op. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.Luckily i dont much mind.I could care less if you or who believes or doesnt believe.
I made no comment about having a problem with atheists putting their dis belief forward.But why does it need to be dicussed at all if you dont believe.Then there is your answer.
Other wise i dont care
And yes you did(So it's Ok to get permanently banned from a forum for repeatedly being racist) Thats a statement and an assumption on your part,and also slander.

liamw

caseyann wrote: »

But why does it need to be dicussed at all if you dont believe.

Blasphemy law (church/state seperation and freedom from religion)
Problem getting non-catholic kids into primary schools
People flying planes into buildings
People blocking rights of homsexuals on religious grounds
Irrational belief / faith as a virtue is unhealthy
Child indoctrination
Presidents of countries praying instead of taking action
Wars and violence between groups based on religion
Teaching of creationism in schools over real science

Ickle Magoo

caseyann, I still don't understand if it's not an issue and you couldn't care less why you seek out the A&A forum and question why they have to discuss religion and specify what and how they discuss religion? If it doesn't matter and you couldn't care - what is the point of posting? Discussions are interesting, posting is a bit of a hobby - what other reason do people need to discuss things of interest to them? I don't vote FF but I'll discuss their politics, I don't support Arsenal but I'll discuss their latest transfer - how is being an atheist discussing religion or deities any different? The question of why people discuss makes no sense, this is a discussion board.

It's only slander if it isn't true - based on your own feedback thread which is available for viewing by the public there is numerous reference to your being a repeat offender in terms of racist posts and why you earned a ban - it has little relevance other than the irony of suggesting there should be more respect shown by the posters here to others.

caseyann

liamw wrote: »

Blasphemy law (church/state seperation and freedom from religion)
Problem getting non-catholic kids into primary schools
People flying planes into buildings
People blocking rights of homsexuals on religious grounds
Irrational belief / faith as a virtue is unhealthy
Child indoctrination
Presidents of countries praying instead of taking action
Wars and violence between groups based on religion

And religion is not the sinner in any of them cases its the human who uses the religion.All human failures nothing to do with religion what so ever.
Having problems getting kids into a school because of religion,i worked in catholic schools and never saw a problem for a Jew or Muslim etc.. getting in.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

caseyann, I still don't understand if it's not an issue and you couldn't care less why you seek out the A&A forum and question why they have to discuss religion and specify what and how they discuss religion? If it doesn't matter and you couldn't care - what is the point of posting? Discussions are interesting, posting is a bit of a hobby - what other reason do people need to discuss things of interest to them? I don't vote FF but I'll discuss their politics, I don't support Arsenal but I'll discuss their latest transfer - how is being an atheist discussing religion or deities any different? The question of why people discuss makes no sense, this is a discussion board.

It's only slander if it isn't true - based on your own feedback thread which is available for viewing by the public there is numerous reference to your being a repeat offender in terms of racist posts and why you earned a ban - it has little relevance other than the irony of suggesting there should be more respect shown by the posters here to others.

I never made a racist comment of hate ever once in forums.It was an assumption made by people who are overly scared of opinions that dont fall into category of kiss ass.Nice to try drag it up around here isnt it.Congratulations enjoy.

I did'nt seek it out saw the thread and posted big deal.Again topic of thread and i posted comment.I wasnt off topic but you are sure as hell trying to drag it off topic with your badgering of my post.

Ickle Magoo

But others do have issues - it's well documented; it's recognised by the schools themselves, the government, the parents. Just because you personally haven't seen an issue doesn't mean it isn't there.

Ickle Magoo

caseyann wrote: »

I never made a racist comment of hate ever once in forums.It was an assumption made by people who are overly scared of opinions that dont fall into category of kiss ass.Nice to try drag it up around here isnt it.Congratulations enjoy.

I did'nt seek it out saw the thread and posted big deal.

I don't want to argue with you - the AH mods clearly had an issue with your posting and I saw the title of the post that got you banned on your feedback thread - my point was/is; if you want to go round demanding others show respect and be taken seriously, you might want to lead by example or you risk being pulled up as a hypocrite.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

But others do have issues - it's well documented; it's recognised by the schools themselves, the government, the parents. Just because you personally haven't seen an issue doesn't mean it isn't there.

never said it couldnt be there.But is in its minority thats for sure.Other wise we would see it in newspapers all over place.Thats news but wait.It doesnt seem to be happening.Because schools dont have issues with other religions in them.Just dont expect them to cut their religion for someone elses.

Ickle Magoo

Do you read the newspapers? Every other week there is reference made to the school system, to the issues inherent with having religious bodies owning 92% of the schools, the issues parents have getting kids into said schools, immigrants being left without schools to attend because schools are picking and choosing their pupils, etc, etc.

You'd either have to be living in a cave or this not to be an issue of interest to you not to have noticed the regular column inches given over to this.

Ghost Buster

caseyann wrote: »

And religion is not the sinner in any of them cases its the human who uses the religion.All human failures nothing to do with religion what so ever.
Having problems getting kids into a school because of religion,i worked in catholic schools and never saw a problem for a Jew or Muslim etc.. getting in.

:eek:Ummmmm. Im squinting and as far as i can make out you are now engaged in debate about religion on the same board where you are asking folk why they are engaged in dabate about religion.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't want to argue with you - the AH mods clearly had an issue with your posting and I saw the title of the post that got you banned on your feedback thread - my point was/is; if you want to go round demanding others show respect and be taken seriously, you might want to lead by example or you risk being pulled up as a hypocrite.

I didnt demand anyone to do anything on here.I asked why say anything at all it doesnt hurt you personally if other people believe.
You brought it up i didnt say a thing and y ou are the one trying to make my character look bad,from my previous ban that was assumed i was banned for.Just because someone made a call incase i was a racist and banned me.No proof of me been anything.

caseyann

Ghost Buster wrote: »

:eek:Ummmmm. Im squinting and as far as i can make out you are now engaged in debate about religion on the same board where you are asking folk why they are engaged in dabate about religion.

Its called (i have no idea how that happens) and i am out

liamw

caseyann wrote: »

And religion is not the sinner in any of them cases its the human who uses the religion.All human failures nothing to do with religion what so ever.

People hold religious beliefs. Those beliefs result in those things I listed.

What do you mean it has nothing to do with religion?! What is religion if it is not the people that are members of it?

Ickle Magoo

caseyann wrote: »

I didnt demand anyone to do anything on here.I asked why say anything at all it doesnt hurt you personally if other people believe.

Immigration doesn't hurt anyone, politics doesn't hurt anyone, parenting doesn't hurt anyone - why is anyone discussing anything on a discussion board?

Ghost Buster

caseyann wrote: »

Its called (i have no idea how that happens) and i am out

Result!:D

liamw

caseyann wrote: »

I didnt demand anyone to do anything on here.I asked why say anything at all it doesnt hurt you personally if other people believe..

And I listed how these beliefs do actually impact us...

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Do you read the newspapers? Every other week there is reference made to the school system, to the issues inherent with having religious bodies owning 92% of the schools, the issues parents have getting kids into said schools, immigrants being left without schools to attend because schools are picking and choosing their pupils, etc, etc.

You'd either have to be living in a cave or this not to be an issue of interest to you not to have noticed the regular column inches given over to this.

lets see,example
Friend of mine grew up and raised in an area and her mother and her mothers mother before her.Daughter leaving primary school applies to the school up the road where all her family went before here and had a applied four years previous to enrollment. Was looked over for Non Irish newly moved into the country of non catholic beliefs.
Its Called room and locality and when enrolled.Nothing to do with religion.If they are not there long enough and others have applied before them they get in.Nothing what so ever got to do with religion as far as i can see.But people will make it how they want to.

caseyann

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Result!:D

I had to reply one last time as i am not rude

liamw

caseyann wrote: »

I had to reply one last time as i am not rude

Reply to my post please. What is religion?

Ghost Buster

caseyann wrote: »

lets see,example
Friend of mine grew up and raised in an area and her mother and her mothers mother before her.Daughter leaving primary school applies to the school up the road where all her family went before here and had a applied four years previous to enrollment. Was looked over for Non Irish newly moved into the country of non catholic beliefs.
Its Called room and locality and when enrolled.Nothing to do with religion.If they are not there long enough and others have applied before them they get in.Nothing what so ever got to do with religion as far as i can see.But people will make it how they want to.

I've never been in a car acident and i dont know anyone who has. Therefore car accidents are not an issue for anyone and Gay Byrne and his ilk should stop fretting about it.

robindch

caseyann wrote: »

Stop trying to incite something thats not there.And you have no right to call me a racist you dont know me.

Under normal circumstances, calling people "racist" is against the forum charter and would earn the poster one of the forum's coveted colored cards. However, in this case, I see that you were banned from AH ten minutes after starting the following openly offensive thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055989413

So, unfortunately, I think the term does seem unfortunately appropriate in this case. I suggest that everybody just drop the topic.

caseyann

liamw wrote: »

People hold religious beliefs. Those beliefs result in those things I listed.

What do you mean it has nothing to do with religion?! What is religion if it is not the people that are members of it?

The labels are made to create segregation by men.Religion is merely a word to describe the faith.Faith is something alot more then a bunch of people running around in dresses telling you what to do.They took the faith and turned it into politics and prejudice.They maybe be members of the religion but it is merely another form of segregation and labels and control and money and power.But people dont yet understand they should not be following people who live in wealth and try to dictate.Faith in God and belief in God is about loving everyone.

robindch

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

issues inherent with having religious bodies owning 92% of the schools

Not quite right -- there are around 3300 primary schools in the country. ~92% are controlled by catholic prelates, a further ~6% are controlled by protestant prelates, ~1% are controlled by prelates of other religions and ~1% are controlled by people who believe that the primary role of a school is to educate children regardless of whether or not the child's parents believe in the existence of certain classes of invisible sky-bunnies.

Turtwig

caseyann wrote: »

.Faith in God and belief in God is about loving everyone.

Including africans?:pac:

Ghost Buster

caseyann wrote: »

The labels are made to create segregation by men.Religion is merely a word to describe the faith.Faith is something alot more then a bunch of people running around in dresses telling you what to do.They took the faith and turned it into politics and prejudice.They maybe be members of the religion but it is merely another form of segregation and labels and control and money and power.But people dont yet understand they should not be following people who live in wealth and try to dictate.Faith in God and belief in God is about loving everyone.

And yet, for all to see is your septic knuckle dragging post about Africans.:mad:

Sam Vimes

caseyann wrote: »

And religion is not the sinner in any of them cases its the human who uses the religion.All human failures nothing to do with religion what so ever.

Yeah religion's great, it's just its followers that mess the whole thing up :rolleyes:

So nothing bad will ever be done in the name of religion as soon as people stop being people. Good to know

Ickle Magoo

robindch wrote: »

Not quite right -- there are around 3300 primary schools in the country. ~92% are controlled by catholic prelates, a further ~6% are controlled by protestant prelates, ~1% are controlled by prelates of other religions and ~1% are controlled by people who believe that the primary role of a school is to educate children regardless of whether or not the child's parents believe in the existence of certain classes of invisible sky-bunnies.

You got my hopes up there, when you said not quite right, I was hoping you were going to correct me and it was less than 92%.

liamw

caseyann wrote: »

The labels are made to create segregation by men.Religion is merely a word to describe the faith.Faith is something alot more then a bunch of people running around in dresses telling you what to do.They took the faith and turned it into politics and prejudice.They maybe be members of the religion but it is merely another form of segregation and labels and control and money and power.But people dont yet understand they should not be following people who live in wealth and try to dictate.Faith in God and belief in God is about loving everyone.

Religion is merely a word. Indeed, you do know I'm not talking about the word and I'm talking about what word means right.

That's like me saying that apartheid had nothing to do with racism. Racism is merely a word. It's the humans that are racist. Racism has nothing to do with it.

midlandsmissus

Ghost Buster wrote: »

[/B]
And yet, for all to see is your septic knuckle dragging post about Africans.:mad:

I'm confused: CaseyAnn's African thread is nothing like her sentiments expressed here . Would anyone be that much of a blatant troll? Have AH been...had?

See her post on page 2: (Still on African thread), was that the point she was trying to make?

midlandsmissus

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Do you read the newspapers? Every other week there is reference made to the school system, to the issues inherent with having religious bodies owning 92% of the schools, the issues parents have getting kids into said schools, immigrants being left without schools to attend because schools are picking and choosing their pupils, etc, etc.

You'd either have to be living in a cave or this not to be an issue of interest to you not to have noticed the regular column inches given over to this.

Now that's what I call sensationalism: immigrants being left out of schools etc,

I will quite happily be proved wrong if you can provide stats to back this up.

My school (technically a catholic school), was happily multi-religion, and atheist.

ShooterSF

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Now that's what I call sensationalism: immigrants being left out of schools etc,

I will quite happily be proved wrong if you can provide stats to back this up.

My school (technically a catholic school), was happily multi-religion, and atheist.

First non-catholic article I found from NI http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1261648.stm

Nice quote here:

The Catholic Education Commission said preference should be given to Catholic pupils.

Commision field officer John Oates said: "My understanding is the school is oversubscribed.

"Our position is Catholic schools are essentially for Catholic pupils. We are talking about the rights of Catholic parents. This is why Catholic schools exist."

West Lothian education authority confirmed a placement request from the family had been refused, a decision which had been upheld at appeal.

A spokesman said the school had been greatly oversubscribed and it had been necessary to admit children against strict criteria, which included their religion because of the school's denominational status.

midlandsmissus

ShooterSF wrote: »

First non-catholic article I found from NI http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1261648.stm

Nice quote here:

I would like to clarify that I would like Irish stats and articles please ShooterSF, as we are talking about if it is an issue or not in Ireland.

ShooterSF

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would like to clarify that I would like Irish stats and articles please ShooterSF, as we are talking about if it is an issue or not in Ireland.

Ah not in my backyard eh? Who cares if religion fuks with the rest of the world as long as it doesn't bother me...fair enough!

Ickle Magoo

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Now that's what I call sensationalism: immigrants being left out of schools etc,

I will quite happily be proved wrong if you can provide stats to back this up.

My school (technically a catholic school), was happily multi-religion, and atheist.

Oh gawd, not the "my school" speech again - please, spare us, I beg you! I appreciate that you think you know more about the situation than those who actually have personal experience of it based entirely on your own school days, lol. :pac:

Here ye go, knock yourself out.

http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/audit-of-school-enrolments

http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=404

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0123/schools.html

robindch

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Now that's what I call sensationalism: immigrants being left out of schools etc I will quite happily be proved wrong if you can provide stats to back this up.

You may not have been aware of it, but a couple of years back, the catholic church rejected the applications of an entire generation of immigrants in the Diswellstown (Castleknock) area of Dublin. This caused two things: an entirely white-skinned intake into the local school controlled by the catholic prelates, and an entirely black, brown, yellow and eastern-european intake into another school which the department of education hastily set up, and which (unbelievably!!) they handed over control to -- wait for it -- the same catholic prelates who had caused the segregation problem in the first place. This decision was then reversed and the school was handed over to Educate Together who were kept completely in the dark about the new school.

It was on foot of this utterly contemptible incident that Diarmuid Martin, to be fair to him, pretty much immediately announced that the catholic church should not control so many schools. Two/three years later, absolutely nothing has changed, but this appears to be caused primarily by a complete, and frankly suspicious, level of total inactivity on the part of the Department of Education.

More on Joan Burton's website -- there are plenty that discuss this incident -- here:

http://www.joanburton.ie/?postid=749

robindch

ShooterSF wrote: »

A spokesman said the school had been greatly oversubscribed and it had been necessary to admit children against strict criteria, which included their religion because of the school's denominational status.

And which, as recent research quoted by Dawkins suggests, also appears to include their exam results. Which helps maintain the higher results that "religious" schools get. They're simply refusing entry to people with lower results and hiding it behind their sanctimonious "preservation of our religious ethos" claim.

strobe

robindch wrote: »

this appears to be caused primarily by a complete, and frankly suspicious, level of total inactivity on the part of the Department of Education.

Why should they act to be honest when there are so many people enabling them by going around saying "well my school was catholic and my class had these two brown children, they weren't even Christians. How can you say there is a problem?"

midlandsmissus

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Oh gawd, not the "my school" speech again - please, spare us, I beg you! I appreciate that you think you know more about the situation than those who actually have personal experience of it based entirely on your own school days, lol. :pac:

Here ye go, knock yourself out.

http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/audit-of-school-enrolments

http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=404

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0123/schools.html

Genuine thanks, for going to the effort of finding these for me, I'll have a look later when I get a chance.

demonspawn

demonspawn wrote: »

I never said they engineered everything on the planet. Everything else evolved naturally. I just believe that humans did not. Read about the Great Pyramid of Giza and all the mathematics, astrology, and technological knowledge it would have taken to build. A civilization like that of the ancient Egyptians just could not have built that.

The aztecs had plumbing didn't they?
And the greeks or romans - can't remember which - had flush toilets a long time before we re-discovered them.
Sometimes I think civilisations get so far with discoveries before they collapse one way or the other.
Egyptians I'm sure knew quite a lot, and enough to build pyramids!

demonspawn

Dades wrote: »

demonspawn infracted for borderline homophobic comments. You can of course hold an opinion but how you express it here is subject to the Charter.

Hopefully a new day will calm this thread down.

I'd just like to clarify my position on homosexuality. I have no problem with two people who love each other, regardless of their gender. My problem is with the physical act of sodomy. To me it's no different to evacuating your bowels on another person. Some people will do anything for physical pleasure, and it's a human trait I utterly detest.

Sorry for the off topic post, I just felt I should clarify my position. I'll take the red card as my comment was obviously misunderstood, which was my own fault because of the language I used. Sorry for any offense caused.

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

I'd just like to clarify my position on homosexuality. I have no problem with two people who love each other, regardless of their gender. My problem is with the physical act of sodomy. To me it's no different to evacuating your bowels on another person. Some people will do anything for physical pleasure, and it's a human trait I utterly detest.

Oral sex ftw.

demonspawn

bluewolf wrote: »

The aztecs had plumbing didn't they?
And the greeks or romans - can't remember which - had flush toilets a long time before we re-discovered them.
Sometimes I think civilisations get so far with discoveries before they collapse one way or the other.
Egyptians I'm sure knew quite a lot, and enough to build pyramids!

The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error. The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was probably exactly aligned at one time.

How did the Egyptians find true north with such accuracy?

The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

How was this possible for a people that did not have very accurate maps of the entire planet?

The height of the pyramid times 10**9 = avg. distance to sun. {5813.2355653 * 10**9 * (1 mi / 63291.58 PI) = 91,848,500 mi} Mean Distance to the Sun: Half of the length of the diagonal of the base times 10**6 = average distance to the sun Mean Distance to Sun: The height of the pyramid times 10**9 represents the mean radius of the earth's orbit around the sun, or Astronomical Unit. { 5813.235565376 pyramid inches x 10**9 = 91,848,816.9 miles} Mean Distance to Moon: ] The length of the Jubilee passage times 7 times 10**7 is the mean distance to the moon. {215.973053 PI * 7 * 10**7 =1.5118e10 PI = 238,865 miles }

How the hell did they know the distance to the sun and moon?

Twice the perimeter of the bottom of the granite coffer times 10**8 is the sun's mean radius. { 270.45378502 PI* 10**8 = 427,316 miles}

How could they have possibly know the circumference of the sun with such accuracy?

The sides of the Great Pyramid are slightly concave...

The curvature designed into the faces of the pyramid exactly matches the radius of the earth.

The average height of land above sea level for the earth is 5449 inches. This is also the height of the pyramid.

Much more astonishing information here: http://www.crystalinks.com/gpstats.html

Ickle Magoo

More not quite so astonishing info here: Exploding the Pyramid Myths

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

More not quite so astonishing info here: Exploding the Pyramid Myths

I read some of that and it's BS if you ask me. He just tries to debunk anything with his own methodology. Example: "One way to avoid being trapped in this way is to look at all the pyramids rather than just concentrate on one". So instead of looking at the facts of the Great Pyramid alone, he tries to confuse the facts by introducing numbers that have nothing to do with the Great Pyramid, which is absolutely unique from any of the others.

The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and it's chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today. The cornerstone foundations of the pyramid have ball and socket construction capable of dealing with heat expansion and earthquakes.

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

I read some of that and it's BS if you ask me.

Funny, I read your post and thought exactly the same thing... :P

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Funny, I read your post and thought exactly the same thing... :P

Meh, I'm not too bothered. You have no argument against my claim whatsoever so think what you like. I've provided facts about the Great Pyramid that you're unable to debunk so you resort to insults. I'm not too surprised really. It's typical debunker behavior, laugh at what you can't explain.

"How did the Egyptians find true north with such accuracy?"

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-True-North-Without-a-Compass


"How the hell did they know the distance to the sun and moon?"

Same way the greeks did?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax


"How could they have possibly know the circumference of the sun with such accuracy?"
Again same as the greeks
http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/eratosthenes.html



"Much more astonishing information here: "
What information? You've asked a bunch of questions that 2 mins of googling can answer.

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

Meh, I'm not too bothered. You have no argument against my claim whatsoever so think what you like. I've provided facts about the Great Pyramid that you're unable to debunk so you resort to insults. I'm not too surprised really. It's typical debunker behavior, laugh at what you can't explain.

Facts about the Great Pyramid? Conspiracy theory nonsense that I have no way of verifying you mean? I don't laugh at what I can't explain - I laugh at the explanations other people give to what THEY can't explain.