Believers Vs Non-believers

MagicMarker

bluewolf wrote: »

"How did the Egyptians find true north with such accuracy?"

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-True-North-Without-a-Compass


"How the hell did they know the distance to the sun and moon?"

Same way the greeks did?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax


"How could they have possibly know the circumference of the sun with such accuracy?"
Again same as the greeks
http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/eratosthenes.html



"Much more astonishing information here: "
What information? You've asked a bunch of questions that 2 mins of googling can answer.

Yeah but the aliens told them how to do it! Duh!!

Zillah

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

More not quite so astonishing info here: Exploding the Pyramid Myths

No no no no no no.

You don't get it. Reality is not nearly exciting enough! Our analysis of history and human culture must be a constant source of wild and exciting theories involving aliens, deities and convergences of cosmic import! Think history, but run by the people who built Las Vegas.

You atheists and your boring "reality".

demonspawn

bluewolf wrote: »

"How did the Egyptians find true north with such accuracy?"

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-True-North-Without-a-Compass


"How the hell did they know the distance to the sun and moon?"

Same way the greeks did?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax


"How could they have possibly know the circumference of the sun with such accuracy?"
Again same as the greeks
http://www.juliantrubin.com/bigten/eratosthenes.html



"Much more astonishing information here: "
What information? You've asked a bunch of questions that 2 mins of googling can answer.

What? Are you kidding me? The Great Pyramid is believed to have been built around 2550 BC. Eratosthenes (276 BC-194 BC). Are you trying to tell me that the knowledge of the ancient Egyptians was lost for thousands of years, only to be discovered and attributed to the Greeks? Your argument is absurd to say the least. That is assuming of course that the Egyptians actually possessed this knowledge are were not just going on someone (or something) else's plans entirely.

mikhail

demonspawn wrote: »

The height of the pyramid times 10**9 = avg. distance to sun.
5813.2355653 * 10**9 * (1 mi / 63291.58 PI)

Could you explain that calculation? Because it looks to me like a claim that the Great Pyramid is 5813.2355653 * (1 mi / 63291.58 PI) = 0.0292362799 mi tall.

That's 47 051 231.6 μm high.

Now, a human hair is about 75 μm thick, so that claims to have the height of the pyramid above what? Shifting sands? Measured to within about one hundredth of the width of a hair?

I love these pyramid measurement things. They're always so full of crap.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Facts about the Great Pyramid? Conspiracy theory nonsense that I have no way of verifying you mean? I don't laugh at what I can't explain - I laugh at the explanations other people give to what THEY can't explain.

How do you have no way of verifying it? The Pyramid is still there. The measurements are still there. What's the problem?

demonspawn

demonspawn wrote: »

What? Are you kidding me? The Great Pyramid is believed to have been built around 2550 BC. Eratosthenes (276 BC-194 BC). Are you trying to tell me that the knowledge of the ancient Egyptians was lost for thousands of years, only to be discovered and attributed to the Greeks?

You mean the same way as indoor plumbing?

Your argument is absurd to say the least.

It's typical debunker behavior, laugh at what you can't explain.

Ok

That is assuming of course that the Egyptians actually possessed this knowledge are were not just going on someone (or something) else's plans entirely.

I'm glad you think shadows and geometry are such esoteric knowledge.
Terribly complicated stuff...

(is this what happens when we have compulsory maths education that nobody is interested in?)

midlandsmissus

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yeah but the aliens told them how to do it! Duh!!

Leave poor demonspawn alone

Zillah - I would have quite the argument with you right now, only I'm - off to play soccer....till next time...:D

krudler

demonspawn wrote: »

I'd just like to clarify my position on homosexuality. I have no problem with two people who love each other, regardless of their gender. My problem is with the physical act of sodomy. To me it's no different to evacuating your bowels on another person. Some people will do anything for physical pleasure, and it's a human trait I utterly detest.

Sorry for the off topic post, I just felt I should clarify my position. I'll take the red card as my comment was obviously misunderstood, which was my own fault because of the language I used. Sorry for any offense caused.

Ah the old "you can be gay, just dont ACT gay" argument, love the sinner blah de blah de blah, anothe of the great christian getout clauses.

demonspawn

mikhail wrote: »

Could you explain that calculation? Because it looks to me like a claim that the Great Pyramid is 5813.2355653 * (1 mi / 63291.58 PI) = 0.0292362799 mi tall.

That's 47 051 231.6 μm high.

Now, a human hair is about 75 μm thick, so that claims to have the height of the pyramid above what? Shifting sands? Measured to within about one hundredth of the width of a hair?

I love these pyramid measurement things. They're always so full of crap.

So because it doesn't fit into your way of reasoning it's just not true? Sound a lot like Creationists and their view of evolution to me.

demonspawn

krudler wrote: »

Ah the old "you can be gay, just dont ACT gay" argument, love the sinner blah de blah de blah, anothe of the great christian getout clauses.

I'm not Christian. I have my views, I've expressed those views to the best of my ability. I'm not asking you to agree so do me a favor and get off my back. I simply stated my position and offered an apology to anyone I may have offended.

Interesting, early geometry in 70,000 BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_mathematics
And egyptians had a precise astronomical calendar used in the middle ages

so:
"Are you trying to tell me that the knowledge of the ancient Egyptians was lost for thousands of years" - it wasn't "lost" at all

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

How do you have no way of verifying it? The Pyramid is still there. The measurements are still there. What's the problem?

The problem is the people doing the measuring, or posting the information on the internet could be CT buffs and pulling their measurements out their hats in order to make it look like something it isn't and add leverage to their CTs...the other thing being that now we have a lot of celestial measurements that I'm pretty sure we could drum up some amazing fact about the eiffel tower being 17 x 10^-9 of the distance between the earth and the moon or the london eye being 12 x 10^-14 the diameter of mercury...

Now if you had proof that those were the measurements they were deliberately measuring from at the time, rather than something that look suspiciously like taking all measurements and trying desperately to tie them in to astrological features and measurement we now know well after the fact, then I'd love to see it.

krudler

demonspawn wrote: »

I'm not Christian. I have my views, I've expressed those views to the best of my ability. I'm not asking you to agree so do me a favor and get off my back. I simply stated my position and offered an apology to anyone I may have offended.

So you're not a fan of sodomy then..

mikhail

demonspawn wrote: »

So because it doesn't fit into your way of reasoning it's just not true? Sound a lot like Creationists and their view of evolution to me.

An impossibly accurate measurement is sufficient for me to be entirely satisfied that the number was made up, yes.

But then maybe you're right, and 4000 years of sandblasting hasn't removed so much as 0.1 micrometres from the top of the pyramid.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The problem is the people doing the measuring, or posting the information on the internet could be CT buffs and pulling their measurements out their hats in order to make it look like something it isn't and add leverage to their CTs...

Ickle Magoo, take a look at my previous. This is just such a case.

demonspawn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The problem is the people doing the measuring, or posting the information on the internet could be CT buffs and pulling their measurements out their hats in order to make it look like something it isn't and add leverage to their CTs...the other thing being that now we have a lot of celestial measurements that I'm pretty sure we could drum up some amazing fact about the eiffel tower being 17 x 10^-9 of the distance between the earth and the moon or the london eye being 12 x 10^-14 the diameter of mercury...

Now if you had proof that those were the measurements they were deliberately measuring from at the time, rather than something that look suspiciously like taking all measurements and trying desperately to tie them in to astrological features and measurement we now know well after the fact, then I'd love to see it.

Ok, ignoring all the complex equations for a minute.

The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

How is that possible without detailed maps of the entire Earth?

The Descending Passage pointed to the pole star Alpha Draconis, circa 2170-2144 B.C. This was the North Star at that point in time. No other star has aligned with the passage since then.


The 344 ft. length of the Descending Passage provides an angle of view of only +/- 1/3 of a degree. Alpha Draconis has not been in alignment for thousands of years. The next alignment will be with the North Star, Polaris, in about 2004 A.D.

Maybe just coincidence that they designed the passage to align with the new North Star some 4000 years after the completion of the Pyramid?

demonspawn

mikhail wrote: »

An impossibly accurate measurement is sufficient for me to be entirely satisfied that the number was made up, yes.

But then maybe you're right, and 4000 years of sandblasting hasn't removed so much as 0.1 micrometres from the top of the pyramid.

Computer models based on measurable aspects of the Pyramid can be deadly accurate. What, you think someone just climbed the Pyramid with a measuring tape and made up random numbers?

Ickle Magoo

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

More not quite so astonishing info here: Exploding the Pyramid Myths

Interesting too

http://www.catchpenny.org/pyramid.html

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

Computer models based on measurable aspects of the Pyramid can be deadly accurate. What, you think someone just climbed the Pyramid with a measuring tape and made up random numbers?

So at what point did the aliens step in? If they genetically engineered us why has it taken so long for us to become so advanced?

Most. Patient. Aliens. Ever.

demonspawn

MagicMarker wrote: »

So at what point did the aliens step in? If they genetically engineered us why has it taken so long for us to become so advanced?

Most. Patient. Aliens. Ever.

I'm not sure. Maybe if you spent the last few thousand years traveling around space you'd learn to be patient. Look at man's attempts to introduce a new species into an alien environment. It usually ends in disaster.

demonspawn

bluewolf wrote: »

Interesting too

http://www.catchpenny.org/pyramid.html

Yeah, just read that. He seems to use a lot of words like "doubtful" and "highly improbable" but fails to provide any actual scientific evidence. I guess debunkers rely of faith just as much as believers. Also Smyth's claim is based on land/sea ration. The author only uses land mass with no relation to the sea on the same meridian line.

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

Yeah, just read that. He seems to use a lot of words like "doubtful" and "highly improbable" but fails to provide any actual scientific evidence.

Unlike you of course.

demonspawn

MagicMarker wrote: »

Unlike you of course.

I'm not the one trying to debunk a theory with doubts and improbabilities. I provided evidence, you claim it's doubtful. Not really a very strong argument is it?

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

Ok, ignoring all the complex equations for a minute.

The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

How is that possible without detailed maps of the entire Earth?

Baring in mind that the meridian was defined in 1884 after greenwich "won" the honour of prime meridian at longitude zero degrees...I'm inclined to think it coincidence...

demonspawn wrote: »

Maybe just coincidence that they designed the passage to align with the new North Star some 4000 years after the completion of the Pyramid?

You do realise that the earth moves, don't you - and changes tilt; as do celestial bodies? I'd be willing to bet my mortgage that any number of features line up with any number of celestial bodies at various given times. In 4000 years the eiffel tower could point to the horsehead nebula - OMGZ! T'was the aliens!!! :eek:

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

I'm not the one trying to debunk a theory with doubts and improbabilities. I provided evidence, you claim it's doubtful. Not really a very strong argument is it?

You provided evidence of what exactly?

robindch

Some Guy wrote:

The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error. The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was probably exactly aligned at one time.

Er, relative to the surface of the earth, the magnetic and ecliptic norths move, but True North -- ie, axis or celestial north, doesn't move relative to the surface.

That's one of the reasons why it's called True North.

Actually, now that I think about it, that may well be the only reason it's called True North.

demonspawn wrote: »

How did the Egyptians find true north with such accuracy?

If you want to find True North, then put a stick into the ground. Mark the position of the end of the shadow of the stick. Go have some lunch. Come back and mark the new position of the end of the shadow of the stick. Draw a line between both points. This line will go east-west. Draw a line at 90 degrees. This will be north-south.

Extra marks are given for using a flatter surface, a taller stick or waiting until the sun has risen or come out from behind the clouds.

The easy availability of sunshine is one of the reasons why archaeologists believe the pointy pyramids aligned north-south in Egypt, whereas the Irish built Newgrange which is a heap of rocks which is roundy and in broad terms, doesn't point anywhere in particular.

I hope this explanation helps.

demonspawn

I know what True North is.

The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error.

If it's so easy to find True North, why is the Pyramid the most accurately aligned? You'd need a stick about a mile high to get such accuracy with your method.

Edit: The Great Pyramid's north-south axis is aligned to within three-sixtieths of a degree of true north-south. It would be worthwhile to note that this alignment is more accurate than that of the Meridian Building at the Greenwich Observatory in London, which deviates from true north by nine-sixtieths of a degree.

So 4000 year old knowledge and technology is better than our modern knowledge and technology? How's that work then?

demonspawn

MagicMarker wrote: »

You provided evidence of what exactly?

The Egyptians could not have been responsible for the complex calculations and building methods required to create the Great Pyramid. I don't think you're even paying attention. :rolleyes:

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

The Egyptians could not have been responsible for the complex calculations and building methods required to create the Great Pyramid. I don't think you're even paying attention. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen any such 'evidence'.

All you're doing is assuming they weren't responsible because you assume they were not capable.

Assumptions ≠ Evidence

demonspawn

MagicMarker wrote: »

I haven't seen any such 'evidence'.

All you're doing is assuming they weren't responsible because you assume they were not capable.

Assumptions ≠ Evidence

They weren't capable. Not on their own and certainly not in the 20 year span that is claimed. That is a fact. How do we know it's a fact?

In 1978 the Japanese corporation, Nippon attempted to build a 60 foot high pyramid using primitive building techniques (similar to the techniques assumed by mainstream Egyptologists, which I personally do not believe*). They were to build it from one blocks of limestone quarried from the same site used by The Great Pyramid builders quarried. Once built the Japanese were told by Egyptian authorities to dismantle it and return the site to its original state.

From the start they struggled with using old and archaic technology and techniques - even transporting the blocks across the River Nile proved too difficult so eventually they were ferried across by steamboat. Teams of 100 men attempted to move the stones over the ground but failed completely. Once again modern vehicles had to be used to move the stones but once at the site could not be lifted in to place. In the end they used a crane and helicopter to position the blocks.

It's a physical impossibility that the Great Pyramid was planned and built by Egyptians in the 20 years claimed by historians. We can't even replicate the mortar they used.

Ickle Magoo

As a teen, my sister always wanted to see the pyramids and all the artefacts so she saved up for ages and she and her pal duly went off to cairo...only to discover most of the cabinets and cases empty with little tags saying "On tour in Scotland". She spent a fortnight in egypt and only us at home got to see the sarcophagus and tut's mask. A conspiracy I tells ya! :pac:

mikhail

demonspawn wrote: »

Computer models based on measurable aspects of the Pyramid can be deadly accurate. What, you think someone just climbed the Pyramid with a measuring tape and made up random numbers?

Any model has to be based on measurements or it's not so much a model as an internally consistent guess. Uncertainty adds as you make calculations to derive a non-measured number from this model. It most certainly does not decrease. I have a PhD in engineering; I had to sit through classes on this crap.

liamw

demonspawn wrote: »

Maybe just coincidence that they designed the passage to align with the new North Star some 4000 years after the completion of the Pyramid?

How do you know that it was designed at the time to align with the North Star 4000 years into the future? Is there some scribings or indication that this was the intention?

Ghost Buster

Hands up. This is kind of a drive by posting but..... Mr Spawn sir. Aren't your aliens a tad like the Christian God in so much as they do something amazing , for no apparent reason, dont bother leaving any explanation for their actions and then vanish and dont want to play any more?
maybe................ thats...... ummmm. wishful thinking

pH

demonspawn wrote: »

I know what True North is.



If it's so easy to find True North, why is the Pyramid the most accurately aligned? You'd need a stick about a mile high to get such accuracy with your method.

Edit: The Great Pyramid's north-south axis is aligned to within three-sixtieths of a degree of true north-south. It would be worthwhile to note that this alignment is more accurate than that of the Meridian Building at the Greenwich Observatory in London, which deviates from true north by nine-sixtieths of a degree.

So 4000 year old knowledge and technology is better than our modern knowledge and technology? How's that work then?

If it was aligned that accurately it would be interesting, however your claim, though repeated endlessly on countless new agey websites is plain wrong.

The N-S axis of the Great Pyramid deviates from true north by the far more ordinary and mundane amount of 2' 28" - making your claim that the figure is 3" wrong by a factor of 50.

mikhail

pH wrote: »

If it was aligned that accurately it would be interesting, however your claim, though repeated endlessly on countless new agey websites is plain wrong.

The N-S axis of the Great Pyramid deviates from true north by the far more ordinary and mundane amount of 2' 28" - making your claim that the figure is 3" wrong by a factor of 50.

Source?

Y'know, so as not to be a hypocrite of some sort.

demonspawn

liamw wrote: »

How do you know that it was designed at the time to align with the North Star 4000 years into the future? Is there some scribings or indication that this was the intention?

The Descending Passage pointed to the pole star Alpha Draconis, circa 2170-2144 B.C. This was the North Star at that point in time. No other star has aligned with the passage since then.


The 344 ft. length of the Descending Passage provides an angle of view of only +/- 1/3 of a degree. Alpha Draconis has not been in alignment for thousands of years. The next alignment will be with the North Star, Polaris, in about 2004 A.D.

How can this happen if not by design? I believe in coincidence but give me a break.

demonspawn

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Hands up. This is kind of a drive by posting but..... Mr Spawn sir. Aren't your aliens a tad like the Christian God in so much as they do something amazing , for no apparent reason, dont bother leaving any explanation for their actions and then vanish and dont want to play any more?
maybe................ thats...... ummmm. wishful thinking

Who said they did this for no reason? Who said they left no explanation? We have countless stories of beings coming down from the sky in fiery chariots. Many stories like this in the Bible and other historical documents. There's a South or Central American tribe who's entire creation myth is based on one being coming down to Earth and creating man. I'll try to find the documentary.

Edit: I think this is the video, not sure though. Watch it if you really want to know why I say what I do. Don't if you're just a mindless debunker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9_r4ghZahU

Ghost Buster

demonspawn wrote: »

Who said they did this for no reason? Who said they left no explanation? We have countless stories of beings coming down from the sky in fiery chariots. Many stories like this in the Bible and other historical documents. There's a South or Central American tribe who's entire creation myth is based on one being coming down to Earth and creating man. I'll try to find the documentary.

Edit: I think this is the video, not sure though. Watch it if you really want to know why I say what I do. Don't if you're just a mindless debunker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9_r4ghZahU

Well. What was the reason or are we not privvy to it?
What is the explanation then?
Countless stories from 1000's of years ago, passed along, embellished and based on primitive man being scared of shooting stars, volcanos, lightings etc and trying to make sense of it.
Many stories in the bible eh. See my last sentence.
have you read Chariots of the Gods many times?

robindch

robindch wrote: »

If you want to find True North, then put a stick into the ground. Mark the position of the end of the shadow of the stick. Go have some lunch. Come back and mark the new position of the end of the shadow of the stick. Draw a line between both points. This line will go east-west. Draw a line at 90 degrees. This will be north-south.

I should add that you should mark the first point a bit before midday lunch and measure the distance from the bottom of the stick to the shadow with a bit of string. Then go have lunch, come back and when the end of the shadow is the same length from the bottom of the stick as it was the first time, mark a second point. Then draw your east-west line, and from that produce you north-south one.

Crafty buggers those Egyptians were.

demonspawn

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Well. What was the reason or are we not privvy to it?
What is the explanation then?
Countless stories from 1000's of years ago, passed along, embellished and based on primitive man being scared of shooting stars, volcanos, lightings etc and trying to make sense of it.
Many stories in the bible eh. See my last sentence.
have you read Chariots of the Gods many times?

And this is why I hate atheists. You refuse to open yourselves up to the possible existence of something you can't explain because of your very limited knowledge of the universe. It's almost laughable really.

You all claim to be such great followers of science, but you fail to comprehend the fact that science is where it is today because of people constantly searching for new answers and new ideas. It's sadly ironic.

MagicMarker

demonspawn wrote: »

They weren't capable. Not on their own and certainly not in the 20 year span that is claimed. That is a fact. How do we know it's a fact?



It's a physical impossibility that the Great Pyramid was planned and built by Egyptians in the 20 years claimed by historians. We can't even replicate the mortar they used.

Ya see, this is proof of nothing.

'Teams of 100 men' trying to move rocks isn't exactly the same as 100,000 men trying to move rocks.

Also, almost 200 years passed between the first pyramid being build and The Great Pyramid being built, maybe they just got better at it?

I'd still like some evidence that aliens built it, as you still haven't provided any.

liamw

demonspawn wrote: »

How can this happen if not by design? I believe in coincidence but give me a break.

Sorry, I will need to do a bit of research myself to figure out the true probabilities.

liamw

demonspawn wrote: »

And this is why I hate atheists.

Do you hate people who lack belief in a god too, or just atheists?

Ickle Magoo

Eh, it's not just atheists that have limited knowledge - if you had something approaching evidence then I think it would help your cause. Copy and pasting from conspiracy theory sites by definition isn't evidence or even reasoned argument...

And pulling the rather toddler-esque; "You won't take me seriously so I hate you" routine just discredits you even further. New ideas and new answers we like - blatantly making up unevidenced stories of visitors from the other side, not so much - that's why we're atheists.

demonspawn

liamw wrote: »

Do you hate people who lack belief in a god too, or just atheists?

Only people who base their beliefs on our current knowledge of the universe. The reality is we still know very little.

For hundreds of years, respected scientists believed the Earth was flat. Then one day some guy came along and said that the Earth was in fact a sphere. He was laughed at and ridiculed. This happens throughout the history of mankind, even up to the present day.

robindch

mikhail wrote: »

pH wrote: »

The N-S axis of the Great Pyramid deviates from true north by the far more ordinary and mundane amount of 2' 28" - making your claim that the figure is 3" wrong by a factor of 50.

Source? Y'know, so as not to be a hypocrite of some sort.

You can see it yourself from the following picture:

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=29.976111,31.132778&ie=UTF8&ll=29.977558,31.134117&spn=0.009684,0.01929&z=16

The pyramids are clearly pushed to the right a bit and also, more importantly, that they're all bent out of shape too. The usual "tourist" pictures you see have been doctored to make them look far straighter than they actually are. Tourists wouldn't come if they knew that the pyramids are as old and knackered-looking as they really are.

pH

demonspawn wrote: »

For hundreds of years, respected scientists believed the Earth was flat.

Name one.

demonspawn

Wow, your evidence is a Google map that you admit is distorted? That's not very scientific. :rolleyes:

Ghost Buster

demonspawn wrote: »

And this is why I hate atheists. You refuse to open yourselves up to the possible existence of something you can't explain because of your very limited knowledge of the universe. It's almost laughable really.

You all claim to be such great followers of science, but you fail to comprehend the fact that science is where it is today because of people constantly searching for new answers and new ideas. It's sadly ironic.

Its very simple. I'll believe it when i see it but not just for the hell of it. Ive met so many folk rattling on about 2012, The Twin Towers , insert fav conspiracy theory / urban legend here that it bugs several shades of sh1te outta me. I dont claim to be a follower os science. Were not all geniuses here. But i do know that we do actually have limited knowledge of the universe but that is no excuse for inserting your fav' alien/ god/ superman/ what ever to explain it all.

Ickle Magoo

demonspawn wrote: »

Wow, your evidence is a Google map that you admit is distorted? That's not very scientific. :rolleyes:

I'm missing the admission...