Can't stand my friends children....:-(

LegacyUser

My friend and I are very close - like sisters (neither of us has a sister). Went to college together, worked together, got married around the same time, had our kids around the same time etc. We have a truly wonderful friendship...:-)
But here's the problem.

Her husband treats her like dirt, and subsequently, her kids (7 and 10) treat her like dirt. They call her names, the eldest fella has spat at her twice this year...they have no respect whatsoever for her. It breaks my heart when I'm in their company and I see how they treat her - they youngest fella told her to 'f off you fat cow' yesterday.

Like I said, her husband treats her pretty bad also - he has a drink problem and there would be regular arguments and name calling - she has often come to me in tears, telling me she's leaving him etc - but she hasn't left him yet.

So I'm not at all pretending that I have the best marriage in the world, or the best kids in the world, but in comparison to my closest friend - I have the perfect family. Hand on heart, I can tell you now that it would never even enter my 6yr olds head to call me names - yes, I shout and roar like most mammies, but he doesn't call me names.

So our kids are seeing more and more of each other lately - we help each other out with childminding and sleep overs etc. And this is where my problem is really.

I cannot stand her two kids. I hate even saying that about children, but I have gotten such a turn against them, when I see how they treat their mam - they are very well behaved in my company, but often start slagging off their mam, or telling my two their mam is a 'moron' etc - I always chastise them and talk to them about how you shouldn't be calling your mam names...

She was away last weekend and I had her two boys for 2 full days and one night, and it was a nightmare. I can't even really explain it - I just can't bear to be in their company - they both have all these food issues also where nothing can touch anything (on their plate) and you HAVE to give the youngest one his dinner on 3 seperate plates or he won't eat it. I have to say, I think this is ridiculous - yes I get that kids have issues with food, but I can't believe she's let it get this far that the kids dictate what she cooks every single day, and rarely eat for her. The eldest fella will only drink b*llygowan water - nothing else - not from the tap, not juice, fizzy drinks, water from another brand, nothing...only b*llygowan...

It's all mental.

So last weekend was pretty difficult for me and she has a wedding in november that has been planned over a year, and I was always taking them for 3 nights (it's abroad) - she's taking my two next month. I really don't want to do it. Nor do I want my two in these two kids company anymore....
I love my friend dearly but can't cope with her kids at all.
Apologies for the very long post, but I was just trying to give some background about the kids, to explain my feelings. Any ideas would be very welcome, about how I can deal with this situation.
Thanks

mariaf24

Firstly, if that boy were staying at my house i would pour his bottle of Ballygowan down the sink, refill it with another brand and put it back in the fridge. Then allow him to drink it the next day, ask him casually was it nice? After his reply tell him that I switched it with another brand of water and prove to him that he didnt notice the difference.
I would then ask him why he has an obsession with Ballygo*an only water and explain to him that this is silly and not practical in day to day life.
If he had a problem with this i would switch on the TV and show him images of children in Pakistan and Africa at the moment.

I would make it quite clear to my friend that you are horrified at how her children speak to her and treat her and that you would under no circumstances tolerate this from your own children. Perhaps she is suffering from very poor self esteem as a result of an unhappy relationship and a husband who drinks to excess and sees this behaviour as normal, it is not!

PS if they or she has a problem with water or food while in your care you could explain it is your house so your rules and you didn't want your own children picking up those habits.

EDIT: Just to add that i know some children have particular routines that are normal and a comfort but imo a particular type of water is not one of those or food on 3 seperate plates...

LegacyUser

OP here.

Thanks for that - the thing is, when I mind them for her, she brings all their food (and ba*lygowan water) with them - so I'm never put out and never have to spend extra for them. Last weekend, she even brought the youngest lads favourite fork and he wouldn't eat with anything else!!! I did pretend it was in the dishwasher for one of his meals (because it got very annoying) and he cried for it and said he wasn't eating - I gave him an alternative fork (an ordinary one!) but he ate the whole meal with his fingers....

I am not joking when I say their behaviour is mental. Funny enough, on the outside anyway, my friend is the most confident, self-assured person you could ever meet. She has a very high-powered job (I guess she has to have power somewhere in her life!) and you would never guess that her children have these issues and treat her so badly.

We've often had heart to hearts and I just don't think she sees what I see...she really is a lovely person and would give you her last penny if you needed it.
I am demented at the thoughts of giving this boy his potato on one plate, broccoli on another and chicken on another in the next few weeks....but I don't know how, or if I can get out of it....

CrazyRabbit

1. You can't really blame the kids. They are only following the extremely poor example of their parents (and yes, I blame both parents). Children are a product of their environment.

2. Your friend needs to get away from her husband. Not only is he abusive to her, but he is having an extremely negative influence on the children by making it acceptable to treat the mother like dirt. If your friend loves her kids, she will get them away from him instantly.

3. Your friend needs to set some boundaries for the children, and then enforce them consistently. They need to know what is, and is not acceptable behaviour. They need normality, and a sense of security. Boundaries give this.

4. The other behaviour regarding fussy eating habits etc, are a by-product of the parents poor relationship. It's likely some way of bringing order to a disordered existence for them. It gives them a sense of control & regularity.

Khannie

unregistered wrote: »

Her husband treats her like dirt, and subsequently, her kids (7 and 10) treat her like dirt. They call her names, the eldest fella has spat at her twice this year...they have no respect whatsoever for her.

As I see it, the problem there is twofold: Her husband is an asshole and it sounds like she has no self-respect. If any of my children ever spit at my wife the punishment will be immediate and severe and they know it so I'm pretty sure it's never gonna happen.

Is she happy in life?

Wantobe

I agree with the 'your house, your rules' adage. I wouldn't make a big deal of it though, if she's prepared to bring food for them, fair enough but if you have to prepare it yourself over the course of a stay, then it should be by your rules. And you should be allowed to 'discipline' them if they are out of line to you by an acceptable means- bold corner or time out or whatever. Thing is, you've already offered to take her children now so it's a let down to her to back out.

We often have nephews and nieces or our childrens friends staying for meals and we just do things our way. Their parents often say to us that if they were at home they would never eat some of our meals as we often eat seafood/'unusual veg' ( it's not unusual at all- things like mangetout, asparagus, runner beans, broad beans but they just don't serve these particular veg to their children). When we had some friends staying recently with us for a holiday they had one child who was more of a fussy eater- so we did serve everything in big platters on the table and let everyone help themselves where possible so that he was able to just take plain rice or pasta and a bit of meat and veg but mainly, given the option, he ate everything anyway.

As for her relationship with her husband and children- all you can do is be there to support her, listen to her because only she can change that.

LegacyUser

That's a good question Khannie - she appears quite happy with her lot. Yes she moans about himself, and knows the kids are difficult, but she just seems to accept her as 'her lot'. She had a wonderful relationship with both her own parents and told me they both her every day of her life, that they loved her. It was in the context of me telling her that I never remember either parent telling me I was loved - but times were different back then. Anyway, she maintains that shes confident in herself - she doesn't think she's a beaut and is not big headed, but she just KNOWS that she's fab at her job, has a beautiful home, can afford stuff I certainly can't. It sometimes seems to me that she has her head in the sand when it comes to her husband and kids though.

Like I said, they are well behaved at my home - but because they have so little respect for her, I have taken a severe dislike to them.

She won't leave the husband or the family home - I don't think thats ever entered her head. She is married donkeys years and just gets on with it - as bad as it is. I just don't understand her.

Goodne

Two of my friends complain about each others kids to me all the time. Neither one of them can stand the others kids for a variety of reasons (I have no kids so they feel safe complaining to me behind the others back). So if I was you I would thread very carefully, maybe she feels the same about your kids. I have to agree they dont sound 'normal' and I do think you should be able to lay down your own house rules otherwise how are you going to manage your own kids when your friends kids are in your house. Talk to her, you mentioned that your kids will be staying with her too so use that as an excuse to set down the rules you both want. Good luck with it

Cat Melodeon

This is a delicate situation and if you don't handle it right you will lose your friend. No one likes to have their parenting criticised, and by extension no one wants to hear their children criticised either. There is nothing you can do other than be there for your friend, allow her to vent when necessary and gently encourage her to get some sort of help - ideally marriage counselling so that her husband has to address his behaviour too. She does not see how she can leave her husband, probably feels that the kids are better off with two parents even if the relationship is not a good one, and possibly has very low self-esteem caused by the verbal abuse from her husband (and kids). You cannot encourage her to leave her husband, only encourage her to talk about it and work it out on her own. No one can be 'told' in these circumstances - it's very frustrating for those on the outside, but the ties that bind even bad relationships together are tangled and complicated. To say 'walk away' is easy, to actually do it can seem impossible to the person involved.

If you tell your friend how unbearable you find her children, you will offend her deeply and probably lose her friendship. I don't know if she can afford such a loss, it would be a shame for her to lose you but I know no parent who would take such criticism of their kids and remain friends. If you really want to help her, suck it up and take the kids this next time. Once her trip is over, gently tell her that you find her children's demands completely unreasonable and incompatible with your own parenting style, and that you will be happy to have them to stay anytime but she and they have to be happy for them to fall in with your own family's routine. Maybe tell her that your own children are picking up on their behaviour and becoming fussier and that you don't want that to happen. There's very little you can do about the name-calling etc - as other posters said, their behaviour is a product of their environment and if she is willing to accept it there is very little you can do to intervene. If you still can't handle them, just tell her that you find their behaviour too difficult to deal with, but at least wait to do it until she has no plans to go away.

It's a tough one. I have a very close friend in a similar situation and have resigned myself to just being there for her. I can do nothing to help her, she has to help herself. In the meantime, my house, my rules. Her brats get roared at the same way I would roar at my own if they do things out of line. They used to hate me, but I think they've gotten used to me now and accept that they have to behave themselves a bit better in my house. As for my friend, I don't think she will ever confront the pile of manure that is her relationship, but that's her choice.

Noffles

I can't stand anyone else's kids... so you're not really alone there.. although these sound like a right pain in the arse... kids given waaaay too much control... if they're in your house it's your rules simple as and make sure they KNOW THAT too!

Mothman

In addition to the above, regarding the following

but often start slagging off their mam, or telling my two their mam is a 'moron' etc - I always chastise them and talk to them about how you shouldn't be calling your mam names...

Rather than chastising straight away, I'd ask for what reason is she a "moron" etc and as part of this offer your opinion of your friend and saying why

LegacyUser

Hmm. I think the best advice is to just do things your way. Give them the food they want, but on one plate, same as everyone else. If they don't want it, or don't eat - they won't starve, and will cop on quick enough that that's how things are done in your house. Particularly if your kids are eating as normal - do what an aunt of mine does when minding a particularly fussy niece and simply say "That's how things are in this house". Works absolute wonders, and they realise pretty fast that it's not negotiable. Kids actually do respect authority and having boundaries drawn...certainly when I was growing up I spent hours and hours with aunts and uncles and friends of my parents, and just got on with it according to the rules of the house I was in, as did they in our house. If they are well-behaved in your house, they obviously realise that certain things are just not acceptable in your house, so simply extend that to food.

As to your friend - I'm afraid you can't do much other that be there for her. The kids are treating her the way they see her being treated by their father, and she's obviously just not prepared to do anything about it and accept that behaviour. All you can do is try and gently make her see whenever possible that it's not on, but there's not much else.

RIRI

I would give those kids a serious talking to next time you have them over.

Explain in no uncertain terms that it's your house & your rules, & that this is not open to discussion.

Tell them that you will not tolerate their bad mouthing their mother in your company at any time - ever. Explain that if the rules are obeyed there will be privilages (trip to the cinema or something) & if there is the tiniest infraction on the rules you will take away privelages one by one (tv computer games - whatever).

No doubt they will go complaining to their mam when they get home. If she confronts you just tell it how it is, that you can't tolerate the way they speak to her and are not going to put up with it. Critisize the behaviour not the children if you get me.

Regarding the food & drink, I would give them what my own are having & if they don't eat it they can go hungry. I wouldn't even enter into discussion over this. Put the food on the table & leave the room. They might skip one meal but they'll eat eventually.

This might all sound a bit harsh but you shouldn't have to put up with that c**p from a 7 & 10 year old.

Let us know how you get on

LegacyUser

Thanks RiRi.

But with respect, alot of what you're saying is quite american if you don't mind me saying.

Im from Dublin, Ireland and I don't do that 'priveliges' stuff at my house - yes, if you are well behaved, you get stuff, if you're not, you don't. Thanks for the advice and I get what you're saying, but I might not say it they way you have written it.

And while the 'give them what they're having in your house' rule is right, I won't let a child who's in my care go hungry...that's what they'll do. They are defiant to the end, you have no idea.

I WILL speak to their mam before this weekend though. Another poster was right when she said that my friend wouldn't continue to be my friend if I told her I didn't like her kids, or her parenting skills...nobody can do that. If anyone ever said that to me, I would never speak to them again, and I can't risk that.

dan_d

What's wrong with letting them be hungry for a few hours??

They're not going to starve. They'll cop on quick enough - kids aren't stupid. They may be stubborn, but sooner or later common sense or hunger will get the better of them - what does it matter if they miss a meal or two? Actions and consequences. They'll survive, amazingly.

I agree you need to tread carefully with their mother, I don't think you can say much on that. Fair enough if they criticise her in front of you, then tell them that's not acceptable, and do they hear anybody else they know speaking about their mothers like that?? But that part, to me, is tricky.

maggot12345

A good friend is hard to find---grin and bare it. It's only three nights and days you've to put up with them. While in your house they should follow your rules and you could keep reminding the kids not to speak badly about their mother or anyone but other than that say and do nothing

metrovelvet

1. The kids calling their mother a moron. If I were in your position I would say to them "your mother is a good friend of mine and I do not like people, especially her own children disparage her character."

2. The whole eating thing. So what if he only likes Ballygowan? If his mother supplies it then why do you care? I only like Heinz ketchup.

Three plates. This actually could be some kind of compulsivity disorder. It could be an outlet for control because there are so many control issues going on. I know as a child I was an awful eater and if the food was touching on the plate I wouldnt eat it. My mother despaired over me. She still doesnt understand how I grew because I never ate and I was willing to go hungry because my compulsivity overruled my hunger.

That doesnt mean you have to put it on three plates. Just say sorry we don't really do that here. And if he doesn't eat he doesn't eat. Not the end of the world. He may not eat for three days in a row. Oh well. Or give him a bowl of cereal or something that can only be served in one plate.

3. Spitting on the mother. Entirely unacceptable. The mother is allowing it for whatever reason.

SerialComplaint

Would it be better for you to mind her kids in her house, presuming her husband won't be around? That keeps them away from your kids. You could be doing her a huge favour if you can break some of their eating habits, by simply leaving the food out for them in a normal way, and waiting for them to get hungry.

astra2000

Hi op you are in an awkward position here if you say too much to her about her kids behaviour you risk alienating her but if you continue to ignore it you risk that it may rub off on your own kids. If she is in a high powered job maybe by the time she gets home in the evening she is too worn out to deal with any more confrontation. It sounds like she began meeting all her kids demands for an easier life but in the long term that has backfired. You can not change the way she chooses to parent her kids but if she asks for advice you can give it. The kids obviously know how to behave when they have to if they are not like this in your house, the next time you hear them calling their mother names or bad mouthing her to your kids you should intervene and let them know that their behaviour is disgraceful, and you have never heard any other children speaking about their own mothers like this, point out to your children in front of your friends children that normal well behaved children would not dream of speaing about their mum like this act shocked and maybe it might make them realise that other people dont like kids who behave like brats.
To be honest theres not a lot you can do other than limit the time your kids spend with them, she is their mother and while she allows this to continue it will. There are times when I feel that I am constantly nagging or correcting my kids, but I think that is what you have to do as a parent so they can learn what is and isnt acceptable behaviour.
If you feel you really cant cope with them for 3 nights then you have to tell her why there is no point in not been truthful as there will always be occasions she wants you to mind them. You could tell your friend that you dont mind taking the kids but you can no longer go along with their demands/needs regarding food as it is beginning to rub off on your children. If you decide to go ahead and mind them then as soon as they walk through the door set the ground rules and stick to them. I doubt that they will be anxious for you to mind them in future if you dont meet all their silly demands. Best of luck with this.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the feedback. I was begining to think I was a really awful person for feeling this way about her kids, when she herself is so lovely and so good to me and my kids.

I think I'll grin and bear it but won't be committing to anymore overnites/weekends for the forseeable, once this 3nites is over. I do like the idea of me minding them in their own house, but my hubby works shift hours and wouldn't be able to mind our kids while I stayed away for 3 nites, so I'd have to bring my own with me, and it woudln't make much of a difference.

Thanks again...often helps just to write it down to convince yourself you're not going mad!

Big Bag of Chips

I like the idea of questioning the children when the say their mam is a moron! Ask them why, and then don't say anything until the answer. Make it uncomfortable for them. If they do give an answer, you can come back with something else "Do you realise how much your mam does for you?" "Do you realise that your mam makes all your dinners and washes all your clothes?" etc.. They are 7 and 10, so they are not babies, they will understand very quickly that they are being questioned, and will probably realise that they have no answer.. and indeed they are just repeating what they are hearing.

Nothing you can do about that part unfortunately.

When I met my husband his nephew was 10. I was shocked at the way he spoke to both his parents (but it was the way they speak to each other). The language he used, used to shock me. To the point where I couldn't stand to be anywhere near that particular family. One day his father was talking to me about troubles at home, and in his marriage (he's married to my husbands sister, so we were the in-laws, "in it together"!) And he said if he corrected his son for giving cheek or not donig what his mother asked him, she would give out to him infront of the son saying "leave him effing alone etc...". I told him that I often found it very uncomfortable the way their son spoke to them, to the point that I was uneasy in their company. As soon as I said that, he turned! Was very insulted that I would think bad of his child (who was 19 at this stage!) or not want to be in their company because of him!!

So be careful what you say to her, she may not take it as "advice". But as many others have said.. your house, your rules! Her house, her rules (or lack of, unfortunately!)

littlebug

As Mothman already said I think that if questioning why they call their mam a moron it should be quickly turned into a game of "lets think of all the things you like about your mam!". Otherwise it could be giving them more leeway for slagging her off. They're big enough to be forming their own opinions rather than parroting whatever their dad is saying and doing so maybe a gentle nudge into a more positive way of thinking would help. You could ask what they like about their dad too just so they're not singling one parent out. Get your own kids to do the same.
I don't know that pointing out how much your mother does for you actually works for children (as they see all that stuff as our role as opposed to something to like about us) but maybe they like simpler things like her hair or her laugh or.... whatever but just to turn their thinking around.

I can't comment on the fussy food thing... got one of those myself. That can happen in calm happy homes too :rolleyes:

LegacyUser

So my friend dropped over yesterday and I felt SO guilty having posted this stuff on here.

That was until the youngest fella walked in and said 'Is there anything to eat in this kip'

IN MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrr...I wanted to severely chastise him, but his mother did before I got the chance. She was very apologetic to me...

I can't believe a 7yr old would say that to an adult in their own home...I think the kids are even worse than I imagined...

littlebug

Unregistered wrote: »

That was until the youngest fella walked in and said 'Is there anything to eat in this kip'

What a little fecker :mad: I take my softly softly approach (above) all back. He needs a clip round the ear or a spell in the army grrr. (half joke lest I get banned for advocating violence).

I have neighbours whose youngest child would be similar. He also torments the girls and hits them with sticks etc. I also know that the children get hit at home for the least misdemeanor so obviously its all coming out in his play. His parents would also be very pass-remarkable and critical of other people etc ... thus the high and mighty attitude of his lordship. I think that attitudes like that are learned directly from someone and in your friends case it's likely their father. If he is that bad then any objections will likely lead to conflict which leads to other problems. Your friend is probably letting it all go unchecked for the sake of a quiet life. it's a tough situation. I don' t think there's much you can do except pull back a bit if it's affecting your own family.

SerialComplaint

Unregistered wrote: »

That was until the youngest fella walked in and said 'Is there anything to eat in this kip'

IN MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like classic attention seeking behaviour to me.

Mothman

Unregistered wrote: »

That was until the youngest fella walked in and said 'Is there anything to eat in this kip'

This may well have been directed at his mum rather than you.
and the language used may be what he often hears from his father.

dan_d

At the age of 7?

Not being a parent, I feel my response to that would be something along the lines of "there's plenty to eat but not for you, if that's the kind of language you're going to be using around here" and leave the rest to the mother.

I also wouldn't be offering him anything to eat in the hour or so after that.....

But then I'm not a parent.

Having said that, that's language and behaviour he's learning between home and school. Op I'm afraid your friend is going to have a lot of trouble with those kids in the future - she obviously just doesn't make it clear enough to them that their behaviour is not acceptable.

Big Bag of Chips

dan_d wrote: »

....she obviously just doesn't make it clear enough to them that their behaviour is not acceptable.

Impossible to do if she doesn't have the support of her husband. To the contrary she has a husband who apparently verbally abuses her too.

OP, my guess is, if she ever did/does try to make a stand on say the 3 plates issue for a start, the child will start moaning and crying and the father will roar at her to give him whatever he wants and what difference does it make if he eats of 1 of 10 plates, so long as he eats. Completely undermining whatever it is she's trying to do.

Of course I don't know the situation, and this is just my guessing from what you've posted..

But there's more to this than badly behaved children who won't listen to their mother. It's a case of badly behaved children who are learning their behaviour from a badly behaved father, who won't support the mother, who has since given up on trying to discipline the children because it just leads to rows all round.

The only way to change the children is to change the father and the dynamic of the house.. that's not going to happen anytime soon.

dr ro

because you don't hear of it very often i've sometimes wondered under what circumstances it would take a woman to walk out on her family....

LegacyUser

'But there's more to this than badly behaved children who won't listen to their mother. It's a case of badly behaved children who are learning their behaviour from a badly behaved father, who won't support the mother, who has since given up on trying to discipline the children because it just leads to rows all round.'

That's exactly it. The child was looking at me when he said that, so although it might have been directed at his mum, he was talking to me and is old enough to realise that he was in my home.

I wish some of you could meet my friend and see what I mean when I tell you she's funny, clever, generous, loaded (!!), and very self-assured. She really has alot of confidence in life in general - I've been to her home many times, and she genuinely doesn't behave differently in her home - like she doesn't cower in the corner when hubby starts to abuse her. She gives as good as she gets, but he does all the name calling etc - where she tries to keep the conversation 'intelligent' by talking things through. He just laughs at her when she tries to do this....

The eldest boy definitely has some kind of 'disorder' which I appreciate is bandied around too often nowadays, but he is very anti-social, finds it hard to look you in the eye when he speaks to you, cries alot, screams alot, hits alot etc etc. When he was younger, I asked her if she ever thought of having him assessed (he was particularly difficult when he was younger) and her reply was that she refused to have him 'labelled' and that if any of our kids were to be 'assessed' in this day and age, they would ALL be labelled with some disorder or other...so no, if there was a problem, it would be picked up in school.

I have to say, after the younger boys behaviour, I have gotten an awful turn off my friend, for the first time in my life....:-(

metrovelvet

Im really worried for this woman when her sons become teenagers. As a mother you are a lot less likely to report a son than you would a partner.