carcase disposal !!!

Sparks

We did talk about that reporting link to Wild Deer Ireland before, but there's a concern with it regarding legal liability for the person doing the reporting:

Wild Deer Association of Ireland wrote:

We will only accept completed and signed questionnaires, and on the basis that a suspected Wildlife Crime has taken place against a protected species. The Wild Deer Association of Ireland of Ireland, will forward the questionnaire on your behalf to the relevant authorities. Having done so, we will not enter into any further discussion, correspondence or representation on the complainants behalf or their representatives. We do not accept liability or make any judgement, on the contents of any questionnaire received. In addition, after submitting the questionnaire we strongly advise you still contact the relevant authority, if you suspect a Wildlife Crime has taken place.

sparks wrote:

If you're reporting it to the Gardai or NWPS, that's one thing JW, there's an expectation of privacy as cases are handled professionally there. But sending it off to a third party is grounds for a defamation case because that third party isn't part of the official investigation/prosecution procedure; they've publicly disavowed any active part in the proceedings past acting as a mail forwarder (and at that, they're urging the complainant to send the complaint on to the appropriate PTB themselves anyway); and there's no expectation of privacy the way there is with the Gardai, legally speaking.

I'm not saying the reporting's a bad idea - I think it's a good one - I'm saying that if you report something as potential poaching (rather than just observations), then you should report it to the authorities directly, to protect yourself from a defamation case. Hunters have taken such cases against one another, and cost one another tens of thousands of euro out of each others pockets, and I mean individuals' pockets, not associations' pockets.

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

Tack, il shout you names from my local herd and you be surprised. Just because it not in the paper dosnt make it false. Tullamore tribune? FFS.
If you wanna kno about pochers in our area, il give you a name. One that is fairly popular in the shooting scene. To say it is not a wide spread problem is bullshine

I'm sorry Dusty, I try to see the Glass half full

shedd7

Out stalking on Wednesday,no luck. Back on Friday evening,two Red deer carcasses, gralloched, and just left there after being dragged quite a long distance. Poachers in a hurry or someone just decided they no longer wanted to bring them home. Either way,the crows were having a party. Near Wicklow.

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

charged with shining a light and disturbance of game ..were they fined or locked up ? where did this happen ? . do you have a link to the case.

if a person shots a deer they own it ( if ) the have the sporting rights on the lands they shot it on .

make statements with out evidence ,,how did they prove the guy you speak of , in the shining a light case get charged .

to get a prosecution for poaching is a nightmare ,there is so many factors .our idea is the hassle poachers enough that they move off .there is not area is ireland that holds deer that is not been poached .

with the two main game dealers in a bit of a price war ,animals are in demand 1.60 a pound for clean shot animals .

From memory they were fined €1600. They were not done on firearms as the rifle was on the back seat unloaded. They were shining onto Coillte land.

I'm not naming the people involved "as they may be on here"

It was in the print media. A search in the archives may find it.
where did you get the figures of RTAs and poaching from ,or did you just make up that bit .

I have 1 family member who wrote off a car hitting deer and there are numerous incidents in my environs of deer being hit by cars.

It's a regular item on local radio "accident on X road due to deer collision"

I'm not making anything up JW, I'm just telling what has happened near where I live.

I always follow stories in the local rags on anything hunting related.

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I have 1 family member who wrote off a car hitting deer and there are numerous incidents in my environs of deer being hit by cars.

It's a regular item on local radio "accident on X road due to deer collision"

I'm not making anything up JW, I'm just telling what has happened near where I live.

I always follow stories in the local rags on anything hunting related.

1600 euro for shining a light on coillte property .come on now tac ,some of us live in the real world .

andyh85

zulu_dawn wrote: »

Andyh85 i read your post and i suppose in my naivety i did not believe it, or more so i did not want to believe it.
After the match i brought baby for a drive, where low and behold, there was a deer (pricket) dumped on the southbound ditch on the N9, just outside shankill, paulstown, co kilkenny.
i took pictures, but i am not PC good, i am unable to post them up (i dont understand this URL link thing).

Its not a pretty looking site is it? glad someone else from this thread seen it for themselves.alot of people probably seen it yesterday with the traffic heading up for the match(hopefuly no young kids) I reported it to the local guards and they were to organise the knacker to come out and collect it but i think the carcase is still their. i might ring again to report it. I have pix on my camera too but dont know how to post them up either but i dont think their the sort of pix to be poasting up either!!

kildare.17hmr

andyh85 wrote: »

. I have pix on my camera too but dont know how to post them up either but i dont think their the sort of pix to be poasting up either!!

They certainly wouldnt be the worst pics up here, stick em up if ya can

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

1600 euro for shining a light on coillte property .come on now tac ,some of us live in the real world .

The two men were a long way from there respective homes so AFAIremember they were charged with intent as they could not satisfy the court what they were doing in a coillte forestry with a rifle & a lamp @4am.

There were a number of charges at the time, I think the DPP wanted to get yer mans driving licence as well.
I'm trying to find the case details. As it was not on a national paper cant find it on independent.ie

Long story short, that was the only case I know of in my area regarding poaching in many years that had a conviction.

I'm sure others on here who are more familiar with the case can give exact details.
I only remember the relevant bit, they were done for being somewhere they had no permission, using a lamp on govt land and a few other offences.

It was a few years ago JW, but it wa the talk of the place @ the time as the 2 guys were well known and names & addresses were published in the local rag

Shoot2kill

custom 7mm08 wrote: »

was told about an incidence in mitchelstown where a deer carcuss was dumped over a bridge some where down that area. it is unfortunate that this happens but it is a small group that are doing it. so what can be done. my dad came across an incident of poaching on the opening day of the season. this particular person previously said he was going to do it. hopefully he is now stopped

That incident in mitchelstown is true. Its a couple of mile from where i live. I only saw the pictures in the local newspaper, The Avondhu, it was the carcesses(missing a few bits) of a doe and one of her young were thrown over the bridge, now it was only into a tiny stream so whoever did it knew damn well the carcases were going to be spotted.

The word "season" or "rules" dont matter to some people, along with "cop-on" and "descency". What makes matters worse is that i heard from a lad that lives close to the scene that there were no bullet holes but that it looked like they'd been taken down by dogs. I cant verify this because i didnt see it myself.

People who are responsible for this kinda thing are rarely caught because there is alot of area and alot of time in maning this kinda situation. At the risk of sounding vigal-anti not only should they be prosecuted but they should also get a good kick in the sack from every hunter/stalker in the area who feels the need.

I think it boils down to individual responsibility, and for them few who dont have any its up to the rest of us to keep a watchful eye on our areas and those who chose to abuse it and the wildlife within it.

Thats just my two cents.

jwshooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The two men were a long way from there respective homes so AFAIremember they were charged with intent as they could not satisfy the court what they were doing in a coillte forestry with a rifle & a lamp @4am.

There were a number of charges at the time, I think the DPP wanted to get yer mans driving licence as well.
I'm trying to find the case details. As it was not on a national paper cant find it on independent.ie

Long story short, that was the only case I know of in my area regarding poaching in many years that had a conviction.

I'm sure others on here who are more familiar with the case can give exact details.
I only remember the relevant bit, they were done for being somewhere they had no permission, using a lamp on govt land and a few other offences.

It was a few years ago JW, but it wa the talk of the place @ the time as the 2 guys were well known and names & addresses were published in the local rag

<mod snip> now they were in a coillte property with a firearm .so they were done for armed trespass . who took the prosecution against them .

marksman74

jwshooter wrote: »

<mod snip> ..now they were in a coillte property with a firearm .so they were done for armed trespass . who took the prosecution against them .

Tac, I'm from the same environs as yourself and have been in the hunting scene for manys a year, I know you to see you, and unfortunately have many more years under the belt then yourself But I cant \ dont remember such a case happening in our neck of the woods, and if it did I must have been away on holidays because I never heard of it, and being in the circles that I'm in , I'm very surprised that I didnt hear about it.
Either that or those years under the belt I spoke about are affecting me more then I thought !
Please dont get me wrong Tac, I'm not saying it didnt happen, I'm just extremely surprised, that if it did that I never heard of it.:D

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

<mod snip> ..now they were in a coillte property with a firearm .so they were done for armed trespass . who took the prosecution against them .

They were on a road, the rifle was on back seat. They were stopped by ranger/Gardai not sure which and details were taken.

Ask one of your shooting buddies, they should be familiar with the case if they shoot in the slieve blooms.

Why you are trying to split hairs i don't know JW.

As I said I'm looking for the exact details online.
Someone on here will PM you the details I am sure before the week is out

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

so they were done for armed trespass

No such offence in Ireland.
And lay off the personal stuff jw, just make your points.

Tackleberrywho

marksman74 wrote: »

Tac, I'm from the same environs as yourself and have been in the hunting scene for manys a year, I know you to see you, and unfortunately have many more years under the belt then yourself But I cant \ dont remember such a case happening in our neck of the woods, and if it did I must have been away on holidays because I never heard of it, and being in the circles that I'm in , I'm very surprised that I didnt hear about it.
Either that or those years under the belt I spoke about are affecting me more then I thought !
Please dont get me wrong Tac, I'm not saying it didnt happen, I'm just extremely surprised, that if it did that I never heard of it.:D

welcome to boards.ie Marksman74
if 74 is your date of birth we are very close in age

It was in a local rag. They have none of there articles on the net, i've been searching.

Even the famous stubble shooting case was not found with the paper I'm alluding to.

I can't do a search as I don't remember what the headline read.
There were a number of offences the lamp being one of them.
I specifically remember they got off relatively lightly as they had teh firearm on the back seat(unloaded).

You would have to read the crime section every week, as i am only home on off days i do to fill me in on all the scandal

I can think of 2-3 stories only every carried by said paper regarding hunting illegally (one regarding shooting a .22lr form a road by a father and son team in the North offaly area) (the other this lamping incident) and one for a guy shooting crows too close to a housing estate.

I don't want to be too specific. You should know of a min of two of them cases

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

No such offence in Ireland.
And lay off the personal stuff jw, just make your points.

so they were fined 1600 euro for using a light ..

Tackleberrywho

jwshooter wrote: »

so they were fined 1600 euro for using a light ..

There were a number of offences, a light being one of them.
And it may have been **punts** it was around the time of the currency change AFAIremember

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

so they were fined 1600 euro for using a light ..

I'd like to read the transcripts as well, and I'm withholding judgement until I do, but it wouldn't really be the weirdest charge I've ever heard of when it comes to Irish firearms law, where you can be arrested (by the ERU no less) because you have spent cartridges in your house that you picked up out of a public field while out walking.

marksman74

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

welcome to boards.ie Marksman74
if 74 is your date of birth we are very close in age

It was in a local rag. They have none of there articles on the net, i've been searching.

Even the famous stubble shooting case was not found with the paper I'm alluding to.

I can't do a search as I don't remember what the headline read.
There were a number of offences the lamp being one of them.
I specifically remember they got off relatively lightly as they had teh firearm on the back seat(unloaded).

You would have to read the crime section every week, as i am only home on off days i do to fill me in on all the scandal

I can think of 2-3 stories only every carried by said paper regarding hunting illegally (one regarding shooting a .22lr form a road by a father and son team in the North offaly area) (the other this lamping incident) and one for a guy shooting crows too close to a housing estate.

I don't want to be too specific. You should know of a min of two of them cases

Howya TAC, I wish 74 was the year of my birth, twas in 74 I bought my first car !!!
I must have a quick chat with some of my lads about the case in question, as i said, I'm not doubting you for an instant, I'm just surprised I didnt catch wind of it is all. Very interesting, and as that kad sparks said, it definitely wouldnt be the most strange charge being held again someone when it comes to firearm ownership and their use, or misuse for that matter.

Tackleberrywho

marksman74 wrote: »

Howya TAC, I wish 74 was the year of my birth, twas in 74 I bought my first car !!!
I must have a quick chat with some of my lads about the case in question, as i said, I'm not doubting you for an instant, I'm just surprised I didnt catch wind of it is all. Very interesting, and as that kad sparks said, it definitely wouldnt be the most strange charge being held again someone when it comes to firearm ownership and their use, or misuse for that matter.

I remembered it as the lamp issue was a grey area at the time (especially for foxes) as there had been a few amendments to the wildlife act around that time (the internet which we use as a crutch) was not common in rural midlands ~2006/7 and it was a bit before that.

So most Folk I knew were very interested in the ruling at that time, especially the part that the had no reason to be in the area, both individuals lived quite a distance in opposite directions to where the incident took place, as there orig plea was they were not doing anything wrong shining a lamp, it was based on a few other items of evidence they were convicted. And a couple of other charges.

Does anyone know how to do a search of court cases?
I've tried searching poaching,Firearms offenses & the general location to no avail.

cavan shooter

Sparks wrote: »

I'd like to read the transcripts as well, and I'm withholding judgement until I do, but it wouldn't really be the weirdest charge I've ever heard of when it comes to Irish firearms law, where you can be arrested (by the ERU no less) because you have spent cartridges in your house that you picked up out of a public field while out walking.

There is something in the wildlife act about it being illegal to use a lamp to "dazzel" deer or pheasant etc,

I will look it up when I get home and see if I can shed some light on it (BOOM BOOM :D

I am sure there where further counts on the charge sheet, its rare you spend all that time on a file and then go on 1 count.;)

found this on the NARGC website:

Section 45 of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000 amends Section 38 of the 1976 Act which applied to the use of lamps, mirrors, dazzling equipment etc., for the purposes of hunting. Section 38 of the '76 Act was substituted by this completely new Section. The amendment states that it will be illegal for any person to hunt any protected wild animal or protected wild bird while using a lamp, light, torch, mirror or other artificial dazzling device. Also prohibited are any devices for illuminating, image intensifying or heat seeking, night sights, or any device which the Minister may declare as coming within this category.

before its asked foxes and rabbits are exempt because they arent protected

zulu_dawn

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Does anyone know how to do a search of court cases?
I've tried searching poaching,Firearms offenses & the general location to no avail.

http://www.courts.ie/

http://www.lawlibrary.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/links/linksireland.asp&CatID=26&m=l

http://www.ucc.ie/law/irlii/index.php

http://www.justcite.com/data-coverage/i-cases-irish.aspx

http://www.irishlaw.org/

http://www.bailii.org/

http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/cases/

happy researching:)

Tackleberrywho

zulu_dawn wrote: »

http://www.courts.ie/

http://www.lawlibrary.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/links/linksireland.asp&CatID=26&m=l

http://www.ucc.ie/law/irlii/index.php

http://www.justcite.com/data-coverage/i-cases-irish.aspx

http://www.irishlaw.org/

http://www.bailii.org/

http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/cases/

happy researching:)

None of them links are finding me cases pre 2007

searching "poaching" "deer" is not showing up any cases

kildare.17hmr

Ya remember what paper it was tac??? ring them, they will prob have a record of it

Tackleberrywho

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Ya remember what paper it was tac??? ring them, they will prob have a record of it

There are only a weekly rag, i would not imagine they are very good a storing records (i could be wrong)

They once posted a pic of a Charlois and the caption read x&y on the celebration of there marraige last week in such and such church.

I know someone who works for them AFAIK, I'll ask them at the weekend.

I also have a friend in a national paper, i'll ask him to do some digging.

Why is it so difficult to find any info on any trials.

Yet you can find the minutes of Daíl Eireann from the 30's if you know the right place to look

kildare.17hmr

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

There are only a weekly rag, i would not imagine they are very good a storing records (i could be wrong)

They once posted a pic of a Charlois and the caption read x&y on the celebration of there marraige last week in such and such church.

I know someone who works for them AFAIK, I'll ask them at the weekend.

I also have a friend in a national paper, i'll ask him to do some digging.

Why is it so difficult to find any info on any trials.

Yet you can find the minutes of Daíl Eireann from the 30's if you know the right place to look

You would be suprised what people will remember, the person that wrote the artical may still work there if its only 7 years ago.. Id give them a buz and ask your mate, it might just jog someones memory!

GixxerThou

Just out of interest guys, how do you dispose of your carcasses?? I know some go directly to game dealers but what about those who skin and butcher their own deer??

kildare.17hmr

bones for the dogs, should keep em happy for a while!

Tackleberrywho

GixxerThou wrote: »

Just out of interest guys, how do you dispose of your carcasses?? I know some go directly to game dealers but what about those who skin and butcher their own deer??

If you are interested enough, and good enough at skinning, you can cure the skin in salts and have it on the wall for time ever more.

Dogs love nice juicy bones

GixxerThou

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If you are interested enough, and good enough at skinning, you can cure the skin in salts and have it on the wall for time ever more.

Dogs love nice juicy bones

I was always told that sika hides are bad to cure cause the hair falls out over time?? Its somethin I have always wanted to do..

landkeeper

deer hair is hollow so breaks over time or thats what i was allways told

Tackleberrywho

landkeeper wrote: »

deer hair is hollow so breaks over time or thats what i was allways told

They are not fantastic alright.
I've seen a few done just if you want a memento

If you have it on the wall in a sitting room or similar out of sunlight they are on.

il gatto

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It's not exactly common either IWM.
More the exception than the rule.

I've only seen a carcass once in all my years of stalking/Hunting experience.

Not much of a shot then, eh? Ba-dum...tish! (Sorry:o).

Tackleberrywho

il gatto wrote: »

Not much of a shot then, eh? Ba-dum...tish! (Sorry:o).

Nope, I'm only average, Minute of Rabbit does me.;)

Hondata92

There was a case last year where many deer carcases where discovered at a river in rathvilly co. carlow

I cant remember the complete details and unfortunately cant find any links to articles but anyone in carlow/kilkenny/wexford area might remember hearing about it

An investigation was launched but never heard of anything coming from it

The media had speculated that it was done by illegal hunters/poachers

IIRC the carcases were mainly skins,bones and heads as the meat had been removed prior to dumping

homerhop

That case was one individual in particular

dwighet

GixxerThou wrote: »

Just out of interest guys, how do you dispose of your carcasses?? I know some go directly to game dealers but what about those who skin and butcher their own deer??

All my deer scraps go into the chest freezer untill Theres no more room then its a trip to the local slaughter house for proper disposal in his waste bin...

With permission of course!!!

GixxerThou

dwighet wrote: »

All my deer scraps go into the chest freezer untill Theres no more room then its a trip to the local slaughter house for proper disposal in his waste bin...

With permission of course!!!

Good idea! Mine go to feeding the local population of red kites.. Often get half a dozen of them hangin around the carcasses!

jwshooter

Hondata92 wrote: »

There was a case last year where many deer carcases where discovered at a river in rathvilly co. carlow

I cant remember the complete details and unfortunately cant find any links to articles but anyone in carlow/kilkenny/wexford area might remember hearing about it

An investigation was launched but never heard of anything coming from it

The media had speculated that it was done by illegal hunters/poachers

IIRC the carcases were mainly skins,bones and heads as the meat had been removed prior to dumping

Rathvilly = Bandit country .