Padraig Harrington.....2015 Honda Classic Champion

tayto lover

Leroy42 wrote: »

So he has spent the last number of year thinkering with his swing, and it turns out his putting has gone to pot. Given that his swing isn't back to what it was the chances of him also being able to fix his putting is unlikely.

Time isn't his friend at this stage either. I certainly think his has the mental will to get it back but the game is constantly moving on with new younger guys coming through every year. At the moment he is going backwards

To think that if he hadn't began to tinker with his swing he might have still been up there. If it's not broken then why fix it especially after winning 3 majors with it. Very sad and foolish tinkering.

GreeBo

tayto lover wrote: »

To think that if he hadn't began to tinker with his swing he might have still been up there. If it's not broken then why fix it especially after winning 3 majors with it. Very sad and foolish tinkering.

Not tinkering would have meant changing what he had been doing for his entire golfing life; the very thing that got him 3 majors.

I think it's pretty rich to think you know better than he does what's good for his game.

People's games go bad...in all sports. Sometimes they come back...Sometimes not.
Here's hoping his comes back.

Almaviva

GreeBo wrote: »

Not tinkering would have meant changing what he had been doing for his entire golfing life; the very thing that got him 3 majors.

Indeed, and would agree.

But I think the point is that golf being such a knife edge balance between having 'it' and winning majors, and being an also-ran, that the mistake PH made was not stopping the tinkering when he reasonably still had 5 years ahead of him in his prime with a game that was proven to be major-winning level (and the Tiger hiatus to come nicely at the same time). So tinkering to reach the top of the world - good. That he didnt know or have the discipline to stop the tinkering - bad - and fair critcism of him.
(I feel the need to say again though incase I am mistaken for being anti-Harrington : am a big fan of his, and regard him as Ireland all time greatest sportsman.)

abff

The reality is that we will never know what would have happened if he had decided to stop tinkering after he won the three majors.

With hindsight, it looks to have been a mistake, but the outcome would not neccessarily have been much better if he had done things differently.

realgolfgeek

abff wrote: »

The reality is that we will never know what would have happened if he had decided to stop tinkering after he won the three majors.

With hindsight, it looks to have been a mistake, but the outcome would not neccessarily have been much better if he had done things differently.

True, but odds are he'd be getting better results than he has been the last few years!!!!

slave1

How much did he get for last place?

Martin567

Anyone who remembers his back nine on Sunday in the 2008 PGA will know that he was fairly wayward from tee to green. He single putted 8 of the last 9 holes. I don't think it was unreasonable to believe that he wouldn't win more majors hitting the ball like that. You can't putt like that every week.

His results probably would be better if he had stopped tinkering at that time. However, I think it's a moot point. There was never a point in his career when he wasn't tinkering. It was a continual process so it really would have been impossible for him to stop.

ssbob

slave1 wrote: »

How much did he get for last place?

$200,000

slave1

ssbob wrote: »

$200,000

Ha ha, who's laughing, probably all expenses paid too, good man P

Speak Now

First time in 4 times playing that event that he was beaten over 36 holes. Been a nice money spinner for him over the years for what essentially is a free holiday!

First Up

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

First time in 4 times playing that event that he was beaten over 36 holes. Been a nice money spinner for him over the years for what essentially is a free holiday!

Problem is that those sort of opportunities will dry up pretty soon unless he gets back into some sort of form. That might be his last trip to Bermuda for a while - unless he pays his own fare.

Speak Now

First Up wrote: »

Problem is that those sort of opportunities will dry up pretty soon unless he gets back into some sort of form. That might be his last trip to Bermuda for a while - unless he pays his own fare.

Of course they dry up, thats the nature of golf. Been there more than most though. Hawaii last year wasnt it :-)

First Up

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Of course they dry up, thats the nature of golf. Been there more than most though. Hawaii last year wasnt it :-)

Caroline will miss those jaunts. Nice perk but no substitute for the real thing. I'd like to see him back putting in a decent shift on the European Tour.

GreeBo

Almaviva wrote: »

Indeed, and would agree.

But I think the point is that golf being such a knife edge balance between having 'it' and winning majors, and being an also-ran, that the mistake PH made was not stopping the tinkering when he reasonably still had 5 years ahead of him in his prime with a game that was proven to be major-winning level (and the Tiger hiatus to come nicely at the same time). So tinkering to reach the top of the world - good. That he didnt know or have the discipline to stop the tinkering - bad - and fair critcism of him.
(I feel the need to say again though incase I am mistaken for being anti-Harrington : am a big fan of his, and regard him as Ireland all time greatest sportsman.)

Well he kept tinkering after the first one also....if he had stopped would he have won the other 3?

There really is no way for anyone (inc him) to say if he is better/worse/neither off by continuing tinkering.

josie19

GreeBo wrote: »

Well he kept tinkering after the first one also....if he had stopped would he have won the other 3?

There really is no way for anyone (inc him) to say if he is better/worse/neither off by continuing tinkering.

Other 2 surely (and don't keep calling me ...)

abff

josie19 wrote: »

Other 2 surely (and don't keep calling me ...)

GreeBo was just thinking ahead to next year.:D

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

Well he kept tinkering after the first one also....if he had stopped would he have won the other 3?

There really is no way for anyone (inc him) to say if he is better/worse/neither off by continuing tinkering.

My take would be that if you are always tinkering, you are always trying something new and if you are trying something new, you are not sure it will work. There is an expression that perfect is the enemy of the good and that might be the problem here. A less than perfect swing, made with confidence has to be better than constant journeys into the unknown. Doubt is a disaster on the golf course.

tayto lover

GreeBo wrote: »

Not tinkering would have meant changing what he had been doing for his entire golfing life; the very thing that got him 3 majors.

I think it's pretty rich to think you know better than he does what's good for his game.

People's games go bad...in all sports. Sometimes they come back...Sometimes not.
Here's hoping his comes back.

I'm afraid neither of us will know the answer to that then.
I wouldn't have changed if it had already worked for me.
Look where he is now with hardly making a cut.

tayto lover

abff wrote: »

The reality is that we will never know what would have happened if he had decided to stop tinkering after he won the three majors.

With hindsight, it looks to have been a mistake, but the outcome would not neccessarily have been much better if he had done things differently.

We will never know unfortunately.
He could have 6/7 majors now but we will never know.

realgolfgeek

tayto lover wrote: »

He could have 6/7 majors now but we will never know.

exactly, but he would have had a much better chance getting more majors, or winning good events, or even making the cut after winning 3 majors if he had left things alone after Major No. 3.

Martin567

realgolfgeek wrote: »

exactly, but he would have had a much better chance getting more majors, or winning good events, or even making the cut after winning 3 majors if he had left things alone after Major No. 3.

I'll just re-emphasise what some people still misunderstand. Not changing anything after 2008 would have been probably the biggest change ever in his career. He turned pro in 1995 and made changes on a continuous basis right from the start. Continuing to make changes after 2008 was the most natural thing in the world. In fact, his form in the second half of 2009 was probably the most consistent top level play of his career, albeit without a win.

Padraig is really struggling for confidence now but I don't believe this has even the slightest thing to do with any tinkering he did right after winning his last major.

Leroy42

Martin567 wrote: »

Padraig is really struggling for confidence now but I don't believe this has even the slightest thing to do with any tinkering he did right after winning his last major.

Are you seriously suggesting that his tinkering with what was a winning set-up to turn it into the mess it is today is not the core of the problem?

Yes all sportsmen continue to work on trying to get perfection, but they also know that you don't try wholesale changes to something that it working. Small incremental changes.

PH made the mistake of trying to change too much and now not really being able to even remember how it was that he used to play.

Martin567

Read exactly what I wrote in my earlier post before you jump in with both feet and get it completely wrong!

GreeBo

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that his tinkering with what was a winning set-up to turn it into the mess it is today is not the core of the problem?

Yes all sportsmen continue to work on trying to get perfection, but they also know that you don't try wholesale changes to something that it working. Small incremental changes.

PH made the mistake of trying to change too much and now not really being able to even remember how it was that he used to play.

You are 100% correct.
Its so clear to me now, how could I not see it before?!
Quick someone ring Padraig and tell him how simple the problem is!

Are you seriously suggesting that his tinkering with what was a nothing set-up to turn it into a multiple major winning swing isn't exactly the same thing he has done since he became a pro, and continue to do today?

tayto lover

GreeBo wrote: »

You are 100% correct.
Its so clear to me now, how could I not see it before?!
Quick someone ring Padraig and tell him how simple the problem is!

Are you seriously suggesting that his tinkering with what was a nothing set-up to turn it into a multiple major winning swing isn't exactly the same thing he has done since he became a pro, and continue to do today?

Why has it stopped working?

GreeBo

tayto lover wrote: »

Why has it stopped working?

Maybe ask Michael Campbell, David Duval, Sergio Garcia, Adam Scott, tiger woods, etc etc.

Good players go through slumps, in every sport.
Harrington was operating above his expected level when he won those majors, he'd tell you that. In much the same way, he is now operating below expected levels.
That's just how it goes.

abff

tayto lover wrote: »

Why has it stopped working?

And while you're at it, why not ask Lee Westwood what went wrong with him in 2002 and 2003 and Henrik Stenson what he was doing wrong before his recent return to form.

tayto lover

abff wrote: »

And while you're at it, why not ask Lee Westwood what went wrong with him in 2002 and 2003 and Henrik Stenson what he was doing wrong before his recent return to form.

In fairness Padraig's loss of form seems to be much longer than theirs with no sign of it returning. Maybe David Duval and his match.
Pity as I like Padraig.

PARlance

I think that the people who think Padraig should have more than 3 majors should stop tinkering with logic.

Martin567

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness Padraig's loss of form seems to be much longer than theirs with no sign of it returning. Maybe David Duval and his match.
Pity as I like Padraig.

In fairness, I think it just seems that way because you're Irish and so you notice everything Padraig does.

Westwood & Stenson both dropped all the way to around 230 in the world. In other words, their form was quite a lot worse than Padraig's has been over the last two years or so. Maybe he is rapidly heading in the same direction but we can only wait and see.