Can we renegotiate our bank loans as we're on social welfare?

sarahlulu

Occupation is always asked as part of a loan application

marti8

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

So, which is it? You just come across as dishonest tbh, and I for one hope they nail you to the wall.

It is both, my bank did know I was in receipt of social welfare because that payment was entering that bank every single week and whoever authorised the loan didn't check to see where the money was coming from. I was later told by the bank when I questioned it that they should have done a closer check but didn't and simply authorised the loan based upon money which was entering my account weekly and the funds that I already had in my account. That was their mistake, not mine.

As for being "dishonest", nope, I was honest with the bank just as everything I've written here has been the truth too. Whether one wants to believe that or not doesn't make a difference to me. I'd suggest you are jumping to baseless conclusions.

marti8

Toots* wrote: »

Do you mind me asking which of the banks these loans are held with?

No, I don't mind you asking at all

I'll say this much, it wasn't Anglo, lol. And it wasn't Halifax, lol.

marti8

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

And according to your posts on other threads your rent was reduced to match your income.

To refresh your memory http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60846514&postcount=4

Yes, luckily our landlord agreed to reduce our rent. And your point is what exactly? Our overall costs have still increased due to a number of factors since we took out those loans (loans which according to the bank themselves should never have been approved in the first instance mind you) Had nothing changed we would be in a position to stick to the original loan agreement however things did change. Personally, I don't see exactly why the bank would refuse to accept €30 instead of €60 pw - they are still getting their money back even if it is over a longer time frame.

This is really a looney thread.

questionmark?

marti8 wrote: »

We have paid off half of the €10,000 loan already and 25% of the €2,000 loan. So, we owe about €6,500 now. Hopefully the bank will renegotiate and accept €30 pw instead of €60 pw. If they don't the only option open will be to close my account and walk away from it. And that's not something I want to do.

How in the name of lord do you think you can simply walk away from your loan obligations by just closing your account??? The bank will simply pursue you through the courts.

If you want a reduced weekly payment maybe they may agree to extending the loan so it works out at something like 45€ or 50€ per week which seems more reasonable than 30€ per week.

c montgomery

marti8 wrote: »

Just to give a very quick overview, back in March 2008 we (tecnically I) took out a loan for €10,000 from my bank (one of the big Irish banks) Then a few months later I applied for and got a smaller loan of €2,000. Then a few months later I applied for an was approved for another loan of €3,000. However, we thought long and hard about the last loan and decided not to take it as we didn't want to overstretch ourselves.

The thing is, all along from when I got the first loan to the last loan (which I didn't in the end take) we were on a social welfare payment, and the bank knew this. We never lied or mislead or anything like that. Yet they still gave us those loans even though the only income was social welfare. For over the last 2 years we have been repaying roughly €60 a week without fail (even when social welfare was reduced) but now things are getting tighter and we're thinking of approaching the bank and saying basically "sorry, the repayments will have to be reduced to €30 per week". Will they accept this? If not the alternative is that I stop any direct debits etc, inform social welfare to stop paying money into my account etc, in essence close my account and walk away. Don't want to do that but if they said they wouldn't reduce the repayments I'd have no choice. What would be the consequences of having to do that?

By the way, isn't it bloody amazing that they'd in the first place approve loans totalling €15,000 for someone who's only income is social welfare?!!!!! Also my wife doesn't have an income either, my wife is a mature student and a dependant on my social welfare claim. I guess the term "reckless lending" springs to mind. Thanks.

marti8 wrote: »

We used it for normal things - holidays, moving house etc etc.

So let me get this straight. You have been on the dole for 30 months and you took out loans totalling 12,000 euro over this time to go on holidays and move house.

Are you actually serious??

I dont want to say what i actually think of you as it will only lead to a ban but please for your own sake, wake up and smell the coffee.

marti8

c montgomery wrote: »

So let me get this straight. You have been on the dole for 30 months and you took out loans totalling 12,000 euro over this time to go on holidays and move house.

Are you actually serious??

I dont want to say what i actually think of you as it will only lead to a ban but please for your own sake, wake up and smell the coffee.

Nope, haven't been on the dole for a single second since 2008 - I have however been on disability allowance, a different social welfare payment. And the money was taken for numerous things: holidays, moving house, educational purposes etc etc etc. But at issue isn't whether I was on a social welfare payment, nor is it what I did with the money - I am dealing with the facts as they exist now. The bank gave me a loan even though they shouldn't have had they been following their own rules - this is according to the bank itself.

Now I will need to renegotiate the loan, if the bank say "sorry, €30 a week isn't enough", then I'll have no choice but to close my account. This is just the reality of it. By all means feel free to tell me what you think, lol, what you or anyone else thinks of me is totally beside the point. Wonder what you think of the bank that disregards its own rules?

marti8

questionmark? wrote: »

How in the name of lord do you think you can simply walk away from your loan obligations by just closing your account??? The bank will simply pursue you through the courts.

If you want a reduced weekly payment maybe they may agree to extending the loan so it works out at something like 45€ or 50€ per week which seems more reasonable than 30€ per week.

I don't see why €30 a week is unreasonable when the income which I have is derived solely from social welfare. How can I walk away? Very easily but as I said that is not what I would want to do. As for pursuing me through the courts? That's fine with me. But what's that saying: you can't get blood from a stone. The loan is a personal unsecured loan, I have no assets, I'm not a homeowner, I don't even drive, I don't even own the furniture in "my" house. It was the bank who disregarded their own rules. They broke their own rules by lending to me, was I a risky bet, probably, as my only source of income was social welfare yet they went ahead and still gave me not one but two seperate loans - and offered a third which we, after reflection, declined.

If it ever did get to court, if they wanted to do that, the fact would remain that I was not refusing to pay - rather I was willing to pay €30 per week rather than €60. I would have sought a renegotiation, they would have been the ones who refused. What would a judge decide in such a situation? Who knows.

marti8

RoverJames wrote: »

This is really a looney thread.

I agree. Imagine a bank giving a loan of €12,000 to someone on social welfare with no assets, looney indeed. :rolleyes:

c montgomery

marti8 wrote: »

Nope, haven't been on the dole for a single second since 2008 - I have however been on disability allowance, a different social welfare payment. And the money was taken for numerous things: holidays, moving house etc etc etc. But at issue isn't whether I was on a social welfare payment, nor is it what I did with the money - I am dealing with the facts as they exist now. The bank gave me a loan even though they shouldn't have had they been following their own rules - this is according to the bank itself.

Now I will need to renegotiate the loan, if the bank say "sorry, €30 a week isn't enough", then I'll have no choice but to close my account. This is just the reality of it. By all means feel free to tell me what you think, lol, what you or anyone else thinks of me is totally beside the point. Wonder what you think of the bank that disregards its own rules?

I cant believe the lack of maturity, responsibility and self awareness you have. In all of your posts you try to negate your responsibility for this mess you are in by blaming the bank for giving you the loan. Maybe skip your next holiday and give up your internet connection and maybe then you could afford to pay them back. God knows this is what alot of people have to do.


Also are you nieve enough to think that you will just be able to close your account with the bank and they wont come looking for their money?


Good luck by the way, your gonna need it.

marti8

c montgomery wrote: »

I cant believe the lack of maturity, responsibility and self awareness you have. In all of your posts you try to negate your responsibility for this mess you are in by blaming the bank for giving you the loan. Maybe skip your next holiday and give up your internet connection and maybe then you could afford to pay them back. God knows this is what alot of people have to do.


Also are you nieve enough to think that you will just be able to close your account with the bank and they wont come looking for their money?


Good luck by the way, your gonna need it.

Nope, a lack of maturity or a reluctance in taking responsibility would mean I'd simply walk away now while throwing my hands in the air and repeating the mantra "I've no money, I can't pay ya!" and let the chips fall where they may. What I am going to "try" to do is renegotiate the loan, I still want to pay the money I have borrowed back - that is not in question, what is in question is the amount I can reasonably afford to pay back on a weekly basis while on a social welfare payment.

I guess you think fault is a one way street and that for some unknown reason the bank are in no way at fault for reckless lending practices? I see you take issue with me but I don't see you addressing the fact that a bank gave someone on social welfare loans totalling €12,000 (not a huge amount in the scheme of things - about 50% of which has already been paid back by the way)

If I have to close my account so be it. It'll be the bank who'll have refused to renegotiate the loan to a reasonable ammount which someone on social welfare could repay. If it ended up in court then it would end up in court. While they were at it they could also explain how the hell they gave me €12,000 in the first place and why they disregarded their own rules?

c montgomery

marti8 wrote: »

Nope, a lack of maturity or a reluctance in taking responsibility would mean I'd simply walk away now while throwing my hands in the air and repeating the mantra "I've no money, I can't pay ya!" and let the chips fall where they may. What I am going to "try" to do is renegotiate the loan, I still want to pay the money I have borrowed back - that is not in question, what is in question is the amount I can reasonably afford to pay back on a weekly basis while on a social welfare payment.

I guess you think fault is a one way street and that for some unknown reason the bank are in no way at fault for reckless lending practices? I see you take issue with me but I don't see you addressing the fact that a bank gave someone on social welfare loans totalling €12,000 (not a huge amount in the scheme of things - about 50% of which has already been paid back by the way)

If I have to close my account so be it. It'll be the bank who'll have refused to renegotiate the loan to a reasonable ammount which someone on social welfare could repay. If it ended up in court then it would end up in court. While they were at it they could also explain how the hell they gave me €12,000 in the first place and why they disregarded their own rules?

Your right, fault is a one way street that leads straight to your door.

No one called to your house offering you 12,000. You went looking for it and you signed for it.

If it goes to court you will probably be liable for their cost too when you lose.

Just call to your bank and ask them. You wont get a definitive answer here, just a load of condescending replies.

marti8

c montgomery wrote: »

Your right, fault is a one way street that leads straight to your door.

No one called to your house offering you 12,000. You went looking for it and you signed for it.

If it goes to court you will probably be liable for their cost too when you lose.

Just call to your bank and ask them. You wont get a definitive answer here, just a load of condescending replies.

Lol, the fault lies squarely at my feet eh? The bank are in no way to blame for giving a loan of €12,000 to someone on social welfare who had no assets? Hmmm. Well, I'd disagree. By the way, they did offer it, what I did was put in an application for a loan, it was they who offered me that loan. Ah don't worry, I can handle condescension

If it went to court and if I lost, yeah sure let them add their legal costs to the monies owed, should have it repayed by 2099. But that is one hell of an assumption to make that I would lose. Could be quite possible, if not wholly likely, that a judge would turn around and say I need to repay x amount per week out of my social welfare payment, €30 maybe? As I said I want to repay the money I owe but at a reasonable weekly rate for someone whose sole income is a social welfare payment.

Actually, we did renegotiate it several months ago and the repayment schedule was reduced to something like €45 per week (€60 less per month), sent us a new contract to sign but after thinking about it we decided to stick with the original payments of about €60 a week - just incase it had any longer term negative effects on our credit rating etc.

pjmn

marti8 wrote: »

.

Actually, we did renegotiate it several months ago and the repayment schedule was reduced to something like €45 per week (€60 less per month), sent us a new contract to sign but after thinking about it we decided to stick with the original payments of about €60 a week - just incase it had any longer term negative effects on our credit rating etc.

... then why did you start this thread when you already know the answer? Your bank have already shown a willingness to negotiate with you. Why not do the sensible thing and go in and ask them???

Don't agree with your assertion that is was reckless lending - you applied for loan(s) on the basis that you could afford to repay them (which you have done to date) - your circumstances have now changed somewhat and you need to seek to renegotiate the term of the loan, which I'd suspect they will agree to.

Think you need to take more responsibility for your own actions.

marti8

pjmn wrote: »

... then why did you start this thread when you already know the answer? Your bank have already shown a willingness to negotiate with you. Why not do the sensible thing and go in and ask them???

Don't agree with your assertion that is was reckless lending - you applied for loan(s) on the basis that you could afford to repay them (which you have done to date) - your circumstances have now changed somewhat and you need to seek to renegotiate the term of the loan, which I'd suspect they will agree to.

Think you need to take more responsibility for your own actions.

No, it was indeed reckless lending. The bank themselves have said as much, they said that had the proper checks been carried out no loans would have been approved.

I know the bank will accept €45 a week, what I don't yet know is whether they'll accept a 50% reduction. But hopefully they will because we don't want things to go pearshaped neither do they I suspect.

MagicMarker

marti8 wrote: »

No, it was indeed reckless lending. The bank themselves have said as much, they said that had the proper checks been carried out no loans would have been approved.

I know the bank will accept €45 a week, what I don't yet know is whether they'll accept a 50% reduction. But hopefully they will because we don't want things to go pearshaped neither do they I suspect.

Why should they accept a 50% reduction? Has your income reduced by 50%? If so, why not, you know, get a job? You've had two years to find one.

marti8

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why should they accept a 50% reduction? Has your income reduced by 50%? If so, why not, you know, get a job? You've had two years to find one.

Get a job? Lol, funny. Maybe you should tell the same thing to the hundreds of thousands on the dole - of which I am not one by the way. Disability allowance isn't dole. I'm off back to uni so getting a job won't be an option. But this thread isn't about dole or getting a job - it's about a loan.

And no, our weekly income hasn't dropped by 50% - it doesn't need to have. It has dropped however and possibly will drop further in the next budget. Interesting to see how some folks don't seem to take issue with the fact that the bank themselves ignored their own lending guidelines, easier to ignore that part I guess :rolleyes:

MagicMarker

marti8 wrote: »

Get a job? Lol, funny. Maybe you should tell the same thing to the hundreds of thousands on the dole - of which I am not one by the way. Disability allowance isn't dole. I'm off back to uni so getting a job won't be an option. But this thread isn't about dole or getting a job - it's about a loan.

And no, our weekly income hasn't dropped by 50% - it doesn't need to have. It has dropped however and possibly will drop further in the next budget. Interesting to see how some folks don't seem to take issue with the fact that the bank themselves ignored their own lending guidelines, easier to ignore that part I guess :rolleyes:

Yes, you've mentioned ''disability allowance'' a few times already. Are you too disabled to get a job? Is that why you've been unemployed for 2 years?

I'm off to uni too actually, I'm still working full time. The tax payer won't be paying my loans or my rent for me. Why don't you take some personal responsibility for yourself?

marti8

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, you've mentioned ''disability allowance'' a few times already. Are you too disabled to get a job? Is that why you've been unemployed for 2 years?

I'm off to uni too actually, I'm still working full time. The tax payer won't be paying my loans or my rent for me. Why don't you take some personal responsibility for yourself?

Actually yes, given my disability getting a job isn't as simple and straightforward as one may think. By the way, when someone is on disability allowance they are not actually in the category of "unemployed" but don't worry it's an easy mistake to make Not that this relates in any way to what this thread is about, lol. You sound bitter that you have to work full time while going to uni? Tell me, are you bitter?

Personal responsibility is seeking to renegotiate a loan rather than missing payments or trying to walk away from it. Wonder why you don't address banking responsibility while you're talking about the issue of "responsibility", for example the responsibility they had to make sure they followed their own guidlines? I would hazard a guess those guidlines are in place to protect both bank (and customer) but primarily bank of course. Or is it that you believe they did nothing wrong by ignoring their own guidelines?

MagicMarker

marti8 wrote: »

Actually yes, given my disability getting a job isn't as simple and straightforward as one may think. By the way, when someone is on disability allowance they are not actually in the category of "unemployed" but don't worry it's an easy mistake to make Not that this relates in any way to what this thread is about, lol. You sound bitter that you have to work full time while going to uni? Tell me, are you bitter?

Personal responsibility is seeking to renegotiate a loan rather than missing payments or trying to walk away from it. Wonder why you don't address banking responsibility while you're talking about the issue of "responsibility", for example the responsibility they had to make sure they followed their own guidlines? I would hazard a guess those guidlines are in place to protect both bank (and customer) but primarily bank of course. Or is it that you believe they did nothing wrong by ignoring their own guidelines?

I'm not bitter, I'm just grown up enough to realise that when I have bills to pay, I choose to retain a little bit of dignity and continue to work full time and go to college part time, rather than expect the tax payer to carry me through life.

So tell me, how are you able to go to uni every day but you can't go to, say, a call centre to work every day?

marti8

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'm not bitter, I'm just grown up enough to realise that when I have bills to pay, I choose to retain a little bit of dignity and continue to work full time and go to college part time, rather than expect the tax payer to carry me through life.

So tell me, how are you able to go to uni every day but you can't go to, say, a call centre to work every day?

Still see you choose not to address the banks responsibility but are only too happy to address my responsibility, lol. Good for you, keep up that "little bit" of dignity. Why should I choose to work in a call centre if I can go to university and get a degree? But you are getting off topic again, this thread relates to my renegotiating a loan with my bank and not whether I study or work or am unemployed or on disability or about call centres or tax payers

coffee_cake

marti8 wrote: »

Why should I choose to work in a call centre

Indeed, why should you work in a call centre when you can just sit around for 2 years living off the state and get bank loans for holidays, then moan THEYRE irresponsible. and then talk about 'closing your account' and trying to default on debt.

If ever I wondered why this country is in the state it is, threads like this remind me. The complete lack of personal responsibility you have demonstrated in this thread is unbelievable. Not once have I heard you say 'yeah I shouldn't have looked for it' - every comment is 'but the banks'.
Will you ever cop yourself on.

MagicMarker

marti8 wrote: »

Still see you choose not to address the banks responsibility but are only too happy to address my responsibility, lol. Good for you, keep up that "little bit" of dignity. Why should I choose to work in a call centre if I can go to university and get a degree? But you are getting off topic again, this thread relates to my renegotiating a loan with my bank and not whether I study or work or am unemployed or on disability or about call centres or tax payers

You can't afford to go to uni, you couldn't afford to go on those holidays, you can't even afford to pay your rent. A responsible adult would accept this and you know, get a job, pay their loans while still getting a degree through part time education. You seem quite happy to rip off the state, it's quite pitiful really.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to get through to such a no-hoper.

marti8

bluewolf wrote: »

Indeed, why should you work in a call centre when you can just sit around for 2 years living off the state and get bank loans for holidays, then moan THEYRE irresponsible. and then talk about 'closing your account' and trying to default on debt.

If ever I wondered why this country is in the state it is, threads like this remind me. The complete lack of personal responsibility you have demonstrated in this thread is unbelievable. Not once have I heard you say 'yeah I shouldn't have looked for it' - every comment is 'but the banks'.
Will you ever cop yourself on.

Are you seriously suggesting the bank is blameless? That ignoring its own guidelines was correct? I hear you speak of personal responsibility but I don't hear you talk about corporate responsibilty. As for the reason why the country is "in the state it is" I think you should look at the bad banking practices and lack of financial regulation which have gotten us here. But nope, just blame it all on "personal responsibility".

And whether I was on disability allowance for 2 years or 20 years has nothing to do with this thread, lol.

therecklessone

I weep for the future of this country.

coffee_cake

marti8 wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting the bank is blameless?

I don't give a fig about the bank, I'm just appalled by your own reckless attitude. Trying to skive off your debt by saying 'it's the banks fault'.
Christ. Seriously cop on and learn what personal responsibility means.

As for the reason why the country is "in the state it is" I think you should look at the bad banking practices and lack of financial regulation which have gotten us here

Full of people who have exactly the same attitude as you - 'it's not my fault, everyone else was to blame'

eimearcmh

marti8 wrote: »

They broke their own rules by lending to me, was I a risky bet, probably, as my only source of income was social welfare yet they went ahead and still gave me not one but two seperate loans - and offered a third which we, after reflection, declined.

You said you were a risky bet. Had you a bad payment record on past loans?

marti8 wrote: »

But at issue isn't whether I was on a social welfare payment, nor is it what I did with the money - I am dealing with the facts as they exist now. The bank gave me a loan even though they shouldn't have had they been following their own rules - this is according to the bank itself.

Now I will need to renegotiate the loan, if the bank say "sorry, €30 a week isn't enough", then I'll have no choice but to close my account.

You applied for a loan and the bank approved this as they thought you would be able to afford the repayments. You signed the credit agreement and you agreed to the payments of €60. You didn't have to take the money!!

You won't be able to close your account.

marti8 wrote: »

I guess you think fault is a one way street and that for some unknown reason the bank are in no way at fault for reckless lending practices? I see you take issue with me but I don't see you addressing the fact that a bank gave someone on social welfare loans totalling €12,000 (not a huge amount in the scheme of things - about 50% of which has already been paid back by the way)

If I have to close my account so be it. It'll be the bank who'll have refused to renegotiate the loan to a reasonable ammount which someone on social welfare could repay.

The bank shouldn't have to renegotiate the loan with you. You signed and agreed to the repayments at that time.
WHY did you sign the loan agreement then? Its not as if your income has dramatically reduced since you recieved the loans.

marti8 wrote: »

Lol, the fault lies squarely at my feet eh? The bank are in no way to blame for giving a loan of €12,000 to someone on social welfare who had no assets?
As I said I want to repay the money I owe but at a reasonable weekly rate for someone whose sole income is a social welfare payment.

AGAIN you make it sound like anyboldy who is a recipient of welfare isn't entitled to have a loan with the bank. Your not the only person who is on welfare that has a loan with a financial institution.

marti8 wrote: »

Interesting to see how some folks don't seem to take issue with the fact that the bank themselves ignored their own lending guidelines, easier to ignore that part I guess :rolleyes:

The bank may have believed your income was greater or that your outgoings were less. Are you sure you gave the correct information??

Either way, you can't deny that you made an error of judgement.

marti8

MagicMarker wrote: »

You can't afford to go to uni, you couldn't afford to go on those holidays, you can't even afford to pay your rent. A responsible adult would accept this and you know, get a job, pay their loans while still getting a degree through part time education. You seem quite happy to rip off the state, it's quite pitiful really.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to get through to such a no-hoper.

Eh, yes, I can afford to go to uni (3rd level is currently free in Ireland, a fact that may have escaped you) I could afford to go on holiday - as I got a loan (as many others also do by the way) And yes, I can afford to pay rent as the State supplements my disability allowance with a rent allowance.

And how exactly am I ripping off the State? The State provides social services and protections for its citizens, that is one of the primary functions of any enlightened State. Ireland as with most of Western Europe countries operates on a welfare state model.

As for "no-hoper", lol, I guess when rational debate fails revert to childish name calling If I was indeed what you call a "no-hoper" I wouldn't be returning to uni to get a degree. You can always tell when someone has lost the argument when they start flinging personal insults around. Cheerio!

eimearcmh

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to get through to such a no-hoper.

I agree with you MagicMarker, all he is doing is blaming the bank. He clearly is taking no responsibility for his actions. I think he has forgotten that it was he who applied for the loan.
I'd love to see the loan application though!