Can we renegotiate our bank loans as we're on social welfare?

listermint

marti8 wrote: »

Eh, yes, I can afford to go to uni (3rd level is currently free in Ireland, a fact that may have escaped you) I could afford to go on holiday - as I got a loan (as many others also do by the way) And yes, I can afford to pay rent as the State supplements my disability allowance with a rent allowance.

And how exactly am I ripping off the State? The State provides social services and protections for its citizens, that is one of the primary functions of any enlightened State. Ireland as with most of Western Europe countries operates on a welfare state model.

As for "no-hoper", lol, I guess when rational debate fails revert to childish name calling If I was indeed what you call a "no-hoper" I wouldn't be returning to uni to get a degree. You can always tell when someone has lost the argument when they start flinging personal insults around. Cheerio!

Your Sir Come across as Smug and frankly condescending. You are void of personal responsibility, and the fact that you are still posting comes across as if you are just harping for arguements.

Go to the bank sort it out yourself, as any 'advice' you get hear is merely comment and opinion. I bid you well. And I hope this 'Uni education' enlightens you of your obvious folly. But my opinion is that it wont and may be a waste of any educators time.

Good Day!

marti8

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't give a fig about the bank, I'm just appalled by your own reckless attitude. Trying to skive off your debt by saying 'it's the banks fault'.
Christ. Seriously cop on and learn what personal responsibility means.


Full of people who have exactly the same attitude as you - 'it's not my fault, everyone else was to blame'

Incorrect. I have not said I want to default or as you put it "skive off", in fact I have said quite the opposite, that I do want to repay the money I have borrowed. Would be good if you could at least get the facts straight I have also said that circumstances have changed and due to that I will have to renegotiate the loan agreement.

Interesting that you couldn't give a damn about the banks responsibility or lack of but again simply return to my responsibility or lack of. Slight double standard there me thinks.

Thoie

While I really dislike your attitude, here are the steps you need to take.

1. Go to MABs and discuss the issue with them. They will help you prepare a household budget and work out how much you can afford to pay. The bank will do the same, so it will be helpful for you to know in advance.
2. Approach the bank nicely asking to discuss your loans and adjusting the repayment schedule.
3. Do not walk in and say "sorry, the repayments will have to be reduced to €30 per week".
4. Do not say "If that is not good enough for them so be it".
5. Do not at any point during the meeting mention "close my account and walk away from it".
6. Until you've had that meeting, and have renegotiated the terms formally, in writing, continue paying the €60 a week so that they can not say you have defaulted.
7. If the bank is unwilling to renegotiate, go back to MABs and ask if they can provide any guidance on what you should do next.

marti8

therecklessone wrote: »

I weep for the future of this country.

So do I, lets hope the banks have learnt some corporate responsibility and who to give loans to and who not to give loans to! As a rough guide I'd say a NO would be to clients whose sole income is from social welfare and who have no assets (or is that too radical?) :rolleyes:

ilovelamp2000

marti8 wrote: »

So do I, lets hope the banks have learnt some corporate responsibility and who to give loans to and who not to give loans to! As a rough guide I'd say a NO would be to clients whose sole income is from social welfare and who have no assets (or is that too radical?) :rolleyes:

Loving the attitude.

You get yourself in financial difficulty by making bad decisions then are smug about the banks financial decisions.

Sir Oxman

Thoie has given you the advice you need to follow.

I would add that the bank will likely say no to a reduction and pass the account on to their solictors who will ask you to declare your finances in a financial statement to them whilst threatening court action.
From that, they will offer a reduction (in all likelihood, every case is different)

Despite the to and fro of the thread over who isb responsible, I think it's fair to say both paerties are responsible and the Op has said he will pay the loan back.

But OP, I would not even attempt to come out with the 'close accvount' line and 'walk away' spiel.
You can't and if you do, this will lead to a court judgment against you in which the judge will not know your own circumstances (hence a higher repayment amount) and if you don't comply then, well that's when the prospect of jailtime looms.

ted1

whats the point of a degree if your too disabled to work? By returning to college implies that you were there before so you will have to pay. The state only pays for one year. So if you do a year twice you pay. Even if college is free. Jiving generally isn't so include that in the cost of living. Tell us what makes you too disabled to work. I know people with all kinds of disability that can and do work.

marti8

eimearcmh wrote: »

You said you were a risky bet. Had you a bad payment record on past loans?




You applied for a loan and the bank approved this as they thought you would be able to afford the repayments. You signed the credit agreement and you agreed to the payments of €60. You didn't have to take the money!!

You won't be able to close your account.


The bank shouldn't have to renegotiate the loan with you. You signed and agreed to the repayments at that time.
WHY did you sign the loan agreement then? Its not as if your income has dramatically reduced since you recieved the loans.



AGAIN you make it sound like anyboldy who is a recipient of welfare isn't entitled to have a loan with the bank. Your not the only person who is on welfare that has a loan with a financial institution.



The bank may have believed your income was greater or that your outgoings were less. Are you sure you gave the correct information??

Either way, you can't deny that you made an error of judgement.

1) No bad payment record however they loaned me €12,000 when my only source of income was a social welfare payment. The bank themselves later told me that they would not have authorised the loans had they known that and that doing so was an error.

2) Yes, I applied for the loan and the bank offered me the loan and I accepted their offer (offer and acceptance, basic stuff I learnt doing law at uni on my first trip around the block) Yes, I didn't have to take it just as they didn't have to offer it - but they did offer it and I did take it.

3) If I can't close the account that's fine, I'll leave it open but simply won't use it, except to lodge €30 each week into my loan accounts.

4) Banks renegotiate loans every single day of the week, they don't have to but they do so for a very simple reason: it is better to have a loan repaid even if over a longer time frame than to have a loan defaulted on. Why did I sign the loan agreement? Simple, because at that time I believed I was in a secure enough psoition to repay it. However circumstances change and they have. My income has fallen and will possibly fall again in the next budget and other circumstances have arisen which dictate extra costs on my week to week, month to month expenditure.

5) Whether others on social welfare have bank loans or not I've no idea, there must be I assume. However, the bank in question clearly told me that because my sole source of income was a social welfare payment that the loans should never have been authorised.

6) Yes, I gave the correct informstion as it stood at the time I got the loans - as I said that information would be different if I was applying for those loans today.

7) I have never denied I made an error of judgement but if a bank offers you €10,000 and then a further €2,000 and then a further €3,000 (which I didn't take) when you have a very limited income then many people, possibly most, would look on that as good fortune and accept it. Had circumstances not changed all would be fine but circumstances do and have changed and banks just as individuals need to be cognisant of that fact. But you make decisions based on the situation you are in at any particular moment, and I, just as the bank did, made a decision based on the circumstances at that moment.

Wheresmyparade

What are the chances marti8 will start a new post about why he failed out of college and how its the colleges fault down the line!

marti8

marti8 wrote: »

I agree. Imagine a bank giving a loan of €12,000 to someone on social welfare with no assets, looney indeed. :rolleyes:

Imagine some fcuktard on social welfare taking out loans of €12000 to go on holidays and move house and then to think when he can't afford to repay them he can close the account and be done with it, looney indeed.

You must be paralysed from the ears up.

The ban will be worth it

marti8

Wheresmyparade wrote: »

What are the chances marti8 will start a new post about why he failed out of college and how its the colleges fault down the line!

But it was there fault! They didn't like me boo-hoo-hoo lol.........Nah, I just hated law, found it boring as sh!te.

gizmo

marti8 wrote: »

But it was there fault! They didn't like me boo-hoo-hoo lol.........Nah, I just hated law, found it boring as sh!te.

That post could only have been funnier if you had done Accountancy instead of Law.

Winters

RoverJames wrote: »

Imagine some fcuktard on social welfare taking out loans of €12000 to go on holidays and move house and then to think when he can't afford to repay them he can close the account and be done with it, looney indeed.

You must be paralysed from the ears up.

The ban will be worth it

Common sense and personal responsibility are severely lacking in OP. It is no wonder people have the debt they have now with that sort of entitlist attitude.

If I was on social welfare and had debts taking a holiday would be the furthest thing from my mind.

marti8

RoverJames wrote: »

Imagine some fcuktard on social welfare taking out loans of €12000 to go on holidays and move house and then to think when he can't afford to repay them he can close the account and be done with it, looney indeed.

You must be paralysed from the ears up.

The ban will be worth it

Lol, the way some folks are so unable to control themselves, tut tut tut Nah, was gonna say "paralysed from the neck down though" just to see if you had a "what a cnut I feel like" moment but that'd be mean, lol.

By the way, I'm not paralysed or any such thing

goat2

marti8 wrote: »

As does the term reckless lending. Had they not lent it, we couldn't borrow it. The bank should have seen that we, I , were in no position to repay that loan at the agreed repayment rate as my only income was social welfare. I am not saying I cannot repay it, I can and I will, provided the bank agree to a renegotiation of the loan repayments.

.[/QUOTE]
The bank should have seen that we, I , were in no position to repay that loan ..[/QUOTE]

why blame someone else for this[/B

why did you yourself not see that you could not afford to take that much out.
well the cards are in your hand now
approach and negotiate,
because when one are on a wage again you will be able to go back to the full payment

fabricator

Marti8, the 'Moral Majority, are really trying to get stuck into you, God help them if they ever end up down on thier luck. Your situation is entirely understandable, we all are entitled to social welfare benefits, millionares and billionares get childrens allowance, you are trying to renegotiate your loans down to a managable level and I for one applaud you for it. Hope you recover from your ailment and get your degree. We as a nation have become cynical and bitter because of what the banks and goverment have led us into and people still worry that we might upset the banks by missing a payment or reducing payments, Lord help us, will we ever grow some.

marti8

listermint wrote: »

Your Sir Come across as Smug and frankly condescending. You are void of personal responsibility, and the fact that you are still posting comes across as if you are just harping for arguements.

Go to the bank sort it out yourself, as any 'advice' you get hear is merely comment and opinion. I bid you well. And I hope this 'Uni education' enlightens you of your obvious folly. But my opinion is that it wont and may be a waste of any educators time.

Good Day!

Smug and condescending? Moi? Never! :cool: I can't afford to be smug, lol. And again, no, seeking to renegotiate a loan actually is taking personal responsibility, obviously this fact escapes some people. And I continue to post in response to comments made, simple as that, I'm just being polite - wouldn't want anyone to feel as though I'm ignoring them

marti8

Rosco1982 wrote: »

Loving the attitude.

You get yourself in financial difficulty by making bad decisions then are smug about the banks financial decisions.

Ok, look at it this way, pretend that I made a bad financial decision, I know it's hard but just pretend.....now shouldn't I be able to renegotiate my loan? Or is it only when banks make bad financial decisions that it is only the banks that should be helped out, or is that bailed out? :rolleyes:

gizmo

marti8 wrote: »

Ok, look at it this way, pretend that I made a bad financial decision, I know it's hard but just pretend.....now shouldn't I be able to renegotiate my loan? Or is it only when when banks make bad financial decisions that it is only the banks that should be helped out, or is that bailed out? :rolleyes:

From what you have said earlier, if the bank were going to allow you to renegotiate the loan then it would be to €45 p/w which reflects your loss of income. There seems to be no reason to reduce it by 50% or, to be more precise, you have given no reason why it should be. Note, you're not entitled to this, they are merely doing it to aid the repayments.

Side note, why isn't your wife working part time while going to college?

marti8

gambiaman wrote: »

Thoie has given you the advice you need to follow.

I would add that the bank will likely say no to a reduction and pass the account on to their solictors who will ask you to declare your finances in a financial statement to them whilst threatening court action.
From that, they will offer a reduction (in all likelihood, every case is different)

Despite the to and fro of the thread over who isb responsible, I think it's fair to say both paerties are responsible and the Op has said he will pay the loan back.

But OP, I would not even attempt to come out with the 'close accvount' line and 'walk away' spiel.
You can't and if you do, this will lead to a court judgment against you in which the judge will not know your own circumstances (hence a higher repayment amount) and if you don't comply then, well that's when the prospect of jailtime looms.

The bank have already previously agreed to a reduction from €60 to €45 pw but we decided not to sign the contract when it arrived as we wanted to slug on through and continue paying the agreed amount for as long as possible. So, it will be reduced to €45 but ideally we'd like to shave another €60 per month off that, €15 per week......now in all honesty the bank can hardly say €15 is too big a deal! And yes, you are right closing my account would be the wrong thing to do, I'd simply lodge €30 pw into my loan account. Move all direct debits to another bank etc etc.

Somehow I don't think €15pw is going to result in me ending up in the nick. I will still be making payment, even if it is a partial payment as the bank would see it, it would then be upto them to decide what to do (bearing in mind that they broke their own guidelines by authorising my loans in the first place) Throw it over to their solicitors, take it to court, have ait before a judge to decide what's what? Possible but hardly worth it I'd say.

Thanks for the info though.

Xavi6

fabricator wrote: »

Marti8, the 'Moral Majority, are really trying to get stuck into you, God help them if they ever end up down on thier luck. Your situation is entirely understandable, we all are entitled to social welfare benefits, millionares and billionares get childrens allowance, you are trying to renegotiate your loans down to a managable level and I for one applaud you for it. Hope you recover from your ailment and get your degree. We as a nation have become cynical and bitter because of what the banks and goverment have led us into and people still worry that we might upset the banks by missing a payment or reducing payments, Lord help us, will we ever grow some.

Hello Marti8's alt account

pjmn

Marti,

I think at this stage you'll have worked out that most people beileve you should stop blaming the 'bank'...

To me you seem to have created a thread on the assumption that the bank won't negotiate with you - when they have already shown that they will (and I'd suspect they will again)... I think (as I have previously posted) that you would be better employed in negotiating with your bank than being on here trying to justify your position...

As a matter of interest - what exactly are you looking for in this case - is it just a reduction in your repayment to E30 per week - or are you trying to justify something else as well?

{Don't give the 'reckless lending angle again - you have already clarified that you paid off c. 50% of your larger loan, which would suggest you could afford your borrowings in the past, which in turn would justify the bank lending to you - admittedly your circumstances have now changed and you need to renegotiate}...

marti8

gizmo wrote: »

From what you have said earlier, if the bank were going to allow you to renegotiate the loan then it would be to €45 p/w which reflects your loss of income. There seems to be no reason to reduce it by 50% or, to be more precise, you have given no reason why it should be. Note, you're not entitled to this, they are merely doing it to aid the repayments.

Side note, why isn't your wife working part time while going to college?

It wouldn't make financial sense for my wife to work while she studies (we would lose rent allowance and possibly our full cover medical cards) also it would interfere with study and as we have to do a 100 km round trip to college there could be time constraints.....oh yeah also that fact that em, there are very few jobs available (or did I only imagine the fact that there are about 400,000 people on the dole?) If a student can avoid working and concentrate solely on study that is always the best solution (most educationalists will subscribe to that) It is actually recommended not to work and study by numerous institutions.

As I said in an earlier post, yes, my income hasn't fallen by 50% but while my expenditure has risen overall, my income has fallen overall. I know why they are doing it and why they do it every single day: better to have some money coming in than none, basically.

brainer in disguise

Are u for real?
I started reading your post just from a normal curiosity and you u really made my day, couldn't stop laughing:)
Though wanted to ask, how did you explain all this to your SW Officer I mean borrowing 12 grand for holidays and moving home stuff?
And by the way u might reconsider your repayment option as JA and JB will be reduced once again in the new budget.
Good Luck to you.

marti8

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hello Marti8's alt account

Wrong, lol.

marti8

brainer in disguise wrote: »

Are u for real?
I started reading your post just from a normal curiosity and you u really made my day, couldn't stop laughing:)
Though wanted to ask, how did you explain all this to your SW Officer I mean borrowing 12 grand for holidays and moving home stuff?
And by the way u might reconsider your repayment option as JA and JB will be reduced once again in the new budget.
Good Luck to you.

Glad I made your day, sure tis good to laugh like :pac: Didn't need to explain anything to the SW officer, you see the loan isn't savings (in the sense that we saved it) It is exactly what it says on the tin, a loan - which we pay back weekly @ the rate of €60. Thought about sending her a postcard from Acapulco (have you been? tis gorgeous!) saying "Wish you were Here" but that'd be a lie.

Yeah, expecting that social welfare may reduce in the budget but maybe not. I was just wondering whether I could get my DA transferred to Spain for the winter as Ireland gets a bit chilly sometimes - and I find my complexion suffers. I think I could have a good case there you know. Some German guy did it a few years back. But as I'm heading back to college that's on the back burner for now.

marti8

fabricator wrote: »

Marti8, the 'Moral Majority, are really trying to get stuck into you, God help them if they ever end up down on thier luck. Your situation is entirely understandable, we all are entitled to social welfare benefits, millionares and billionares get childrens allowance, you are trying to renegotiate your loans down to a managable level and I for one applaud you for it. Hope you recover from your ailment and get your degree. We as a nation have become cynical and bitter because of what the banks and goverment have led us into and people still worry that we might upset the banks by missing a payment or reducing payments, Lord help us, will we ever grow some.

Ah sure, the poor souls, they're trying to get stuck in but not having much luck but ya have to feel for them, the aul disillusioned capitalists in denial But yeah, circumstances change and we have to roll with them, that's what I told the bank manager "roll with it, boy, roll with it"......It could happen to anyone at anytime that things go astray, unless there are the social supports in place, we'd have a totally dysfunctional society (if it's possible to get more dysfunctional than post-Celtic Tiger Ireland) Could be worse though, look at Moldova or the States!

Thanks for the support

marti8

pjmn wrote: »

Marti,

I think at this stage you'll have worked out that most people beileve you should stop blaming the 'bank'...

To me you seem to have created a thread on the assumption that the bank won't negotiate with you - when they have already shown that they will (and I'd suspect they will again)... I think (as I have previously posted) that you would be better employed in negotiating with your bank than being on here trying to justify your position...

As a matter of interest - what exactly are you looking for in this case - is it just a reduction in your repayment to E30 per week - or are you trying to justify something else as well?

{Don't give the 'reckless lending angle again - you have already clarified that you paid off c. 50% of your larger loan, which would suggest you could afford your borrowings in the past, which in turn would justify the bank lending to you - admittedly your circumstances have now changed and you need to renegotiate}...

Justify something else? What do you mean? Hopefully I'll get it down to €30pw, especially with possible further social welfare cuts coming up in the next budget. Lots of folks are having issues (many, many much more serious than my few thousand quid) and I think people are starting to say to themselves "well, hold on here a minute - if they can bail out the banks why can't I also get a little help or a little leeway?"

gizmo

marti8 wrote: »

It wouldn't make financial sense for my wife to work while she studies (we would lose rent allowance and possibly our full cover medical cards) also it would interfere with study and as we have to do a 100 km round trip to college there could be time constraints.....oh yeah also that fact that em, there are very few jobs available (or did I only imagine the fact that there are about 400,000 people on the dole?) If a student can avoid working and concentrate solely on study that is always the best solution (most educationalists will subscribe to that) It is actually recommended not to work and study by numerous institutions.

It's something that is recommended if you can afford, what's abundantly clear now is that you can't afford it unless the bank makes a concession.

marti8 wrote: »

As I said in an earlier post, yes, my income hasn't fallen by 50% but while my expenditure has risen overall, my income has fallen overall. I know why they are doing it and why they do it every single day: better to have some money coming in than none, basically.

Well then the reduction they give you will be based on that, not the arbitrary 50% figure you're suggesting.

pjmn

marti8 wrote: »

Justify something else? What do you mean? Hopefully I'll get it down to €30pw, especially with possible further social welfare cuts coming up in the next budget. Lots of folks are having issues (many, many much more serious than my few thousand quid) and I think people are starting to say to themselves "well, hold on here a minute - if they can bail out the banks why can't I also get a little help or a little leeway?"

Calm down - I only asked you a question.

You've made your case why you believe a repayment reduction is warranted - I've already said a couple of times I believe your bank will facilitate you. If they do - what's your problem?