the Poppy

Donkey Oaty

Biggins wrote: »

I'd rather be optimistic and live in a place of "possibilities" than be in a land of depression and reluctance to advance through adopted complacency.

Well, I can't argue with that.

Wolfe Tone

dan719 wrote: »

Sure proper nationalists leave bombs in civillian areas to kill and maim as many innocent people as possible. Real heroes. :rolleyes:

Pure ****ing rubbish.

breadandjam

Chairman Meow wrote: »

The poppy is a commemoration of all soldiers who died in WW1 not just british.

Sorry but that's not true it doesn't commemorate the Germans, Russians, Turks etc.
My Grandfather fought on the Western Front and at Gallipoli and I honour him for his courage but I feel no need to show an outward sign of that like wearing the poppy.
To my mind the poppy is used by the British establishment to validate the first World War and every war since. The first war was a gigantic waste of time and lives as evidenced by the fact that the "Great" Powers were bating the lard out of each other again twenty years later.

My name is URL

This thread is great.. just goes to show that there are in fact people who wear a poppy for the simple reason that they're against nationalism.. it's almost as sickening as the people that refuse to wear one simply because they're nationalists.

If I ever get the urge to donate money to the families of soldiers then I'll do it through the correct channels, ie. to the benevolence funds below.

http://www.soldierscharity.org/
http://www.rafbf.org/
http://www.rnbt.org.uk/

If I want to show respect for those who died in past wars I don't need to stick a symbolistic plastic flower on my lapel and sing from the rooftops about why those not wearing one are disrespectful or selfish. There's other ways to respect the dead.. have a family gathering, visit the place they died or whatever.

Dublin_Gunner

My name is URL wrote: »

This thread is great.. .........

Ok you do that, and the OP can wear the poppy if he wishes, hopefully without the risk of scrutiny from self righteous high horsers.

Biggins

My name is URL wrote: »

...If I want to show respect for those who died in past wars I don't need to stick a symbolistic plastic flower on my lapel and sing from the rooftops about why those not wearing one are disrespectful or selfish. There's other ways to respect the dead.. have a family gathering, visit the place they died or whatever.

There is a lot of truth in what you say.

One shouldn't have to wear one if they don't want to. Equally I would add as well though, that if loved ones of those lost, do wish to wear one and knowing its true meaning, they too should be respected for that decision too.
(After all, people died so they could have such freedoms.)

Let the spin-masters and hi-jacking political heads of this world take their tainting elsewhere.

My name is URL

Biggins wrote: »

There is a lot of truth is what you say.

One shouldn't have to wear one if they don't want to. Equally I would add as well though, that if loved ones of those lost, do wish to wear one and knowing its true meaning, they too should be respected for that decision too.
(After all, people died so they could have such freedoms.)

Let the spin-masters and hi-jacking political heads of this world take their tainting elsewhere.

Absolutely.. and those people are dead right to wear one and shouldn't be put off just because others opt not to. I just can't stand the politicizing of the whole thing in here in Ireland. People try to justify their reasoning behind why they do or do not wear one. It shouldn't need to be justified either way.

storm2811

MUSSOLINI : What exactly is the big problem you have with the proceeds going to war vets?
You seem to really detest it.

Wolfe Tone

What have they done to deserve it? Fought in Iraq? The North? Of course I object to any money going towards people like that considering the BAs bloody history in our Island. Play a part in a support systems for soldiers like that? No way. Would much rather give my money to a more deserving charity.

storm2811

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What have they done to deserve it? Fought in Iraq? The North? Of course I object to any money going towards people like that considering the BAs bloody history in our Island. Play a part in a support systems for soldiers like that? No way. Would much rather give my money to a more deserving charity.

I'll have to find this link somewhere, it's not exactly the same but I'd say the rates are fairly similar.
It showed how many US soldiers were killed in Iraq and then the suicide rates among those who returned home.
The suicide rate was a fair bit higher.

My point is, that when men join the army, they don't completely know what they're in for and war can have massive effects on them.

Wolfe Tone

storm2811 wrote: »

I'll have to find this link somewhere, it's not exactly the same but I'd say the rates are fairly similar.
It showed how many US soldiers were killed in Iraq and then the suicide rates among those who returned home.
The suicide rate was a fair bit higher.

My point is, that when men join the army, they don't completely know what they're in for and war can have massive effects on them.

I must have missed the bit where they were conscripted.

storm2811

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I must have missed the bit where they were conscripted.

I'm sorry when was the last time British soldiers were conscripted?

I found this in relation to PTSD in soldiers.

Promises of mental health support for veterans cannot come quickly enough, according to Andrew Drake from the Royal British Legion in the North East, who tells the BBC the issue is a "ticking time bomb" given the number of servicemen currently on active duty.

He states: "The number of people needing help is likely to increase because there's intense fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and symptoms can take years to develop.

"Many doctors aren't aware of military culture and don't recognise the unique circumstances of serviceman and woman, and that means that sometimes they don't get the understanding or specialist care they need."

Robert Marsh of veterans' mental health charity Combat Stress agrees with this sentiment, but warns that greater funding is needed if former soldiers are to be properly supported.

He tells the BBC: "Going forward, the demand on our services is going to be ever-increasing and there is going to be a funding challenge and perhaps we need to question where we are getting our money from."

http://www.samaritans.org/media_centre/emotional_health_news/soldier-suicide-034.aspx

Wolfe Tone

storm2811 wrote: »

I'm sorry when was the last time British soldiers were conscripted?

Exactly... they were not forced to go to Iraq etc....

I found this in relation to PTSD in soldiers.

So you wish to provide support to current and past British soldiers?

storm2811

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So you wish to provide support to current and past British soldiers?

In what way? Physical and mental health treatment, yes.

owenc

citytillidie wrote: »

But that goes both ways with Protestants telling Catholic employees to take off Shamrock's on St Patrick's Day or to remove the Ash on foreheads on Ash Wednesday

Since when do people wear shamrocks... (i'm talking about the ashes now ) Now i don't think that has ever happened in my area or school that would not be tolerated its sectarian, although the odd time some people would make fun of it. But no harm to them its there own fault for putting it on, if i were them i would never wear that in a place were i'm obviously going to be made fun of.

owenc

Biggins wrote: »

Ok, lets get the record right - for the third time:

The poppy is of CANADIAN and FRENCH origin. Now keep that in mind because those that wish to use it and spin it as just an imperialistic symbol, will and have tried to brush over that fact - and still do so in this thread.
These that try this stunt, do so with recitation in hope (like many before) that if enough thrown mud, political imagery is chucked, some will stick.

For example Dionyous says:



So what about the Canadians that wear it? (They created it as a symbol)
What about the French that still wear it? (They then used it further)
What about the Irish that wear it? (...For the many Irish that also died for future freedoms!)
What about the Scotish who wear it? (Money raised from the selling of poppies in Scotland goes to the Earl Haig Fund)
What about the New Zealanders that still wear it?
(The Poppy is worn on ANZAC Day in remembrance and honour of all the New Zealand Men and Women who have fought and died in the service of their country in the many wars and conflicts since the original ANZAC Day - Gallipoli - April 25th 1915.

ANZAC is the acronym for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps, the formation created in December 1914 by grouping the Australian Imperial Force and New Zealand Expeditionary Force stationed in Egypt. Some time later it was taken on as the telegraph code word for the Corps. The Corps made it's operational debut, together with forces from Britain, India and France at Gallipoli on April 25th 1915, where they landed against stiff opposition from the Turks. In this fighting about one in five of the 3000 New Zealanders who landed on the first day became casualties. The small cove where the Australian and New Zealand troops landed was quickly designated "Anzac Cove" and the word was soon used to describe all Australian and New Zealand soldiers who fought on the peninsula, and eventually any Australian or New Zealand soldier.')

The fact is that its an international flower image of remembrance and sorrow (and internationally still is seen that way) for those that died on the fields of France and elsewhere. Thats it. No further spin and divisional bullschite.
(Just because one side at home, with own self-motives says its something else - that does NOT make it so unless one cowers and gives in to their political staining)

Further on in years, those that wish to sneakily cause derision and divide, are trying to spin the Poppy just as a imperialistic image - well if they wish to do that - that's their right for many have actually died to give them that right (Eaten bread is soon forgotten!) - but - those with an actual education, awareness of history, knowledge of TRUE basic facts and unwilling to give into the goons past and present that wish to only paint the poppy symbiotically and slanderously as just the way they see it - DOES NOT MAKE IT SO.

A picture paints a thousand words: http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8648/capturetx.jpg

The history and real meaning of the poppy is all over the internet - one example: http://www.scs.sk.ca/mak/Html/grassroots/poppy.html

Now we can give into the goons of this world and just believe the way they want to spin it or we can see it for what it is and created for.
One way is to give into the spin, intimidation and political muck throwing - the other is to stand up with courage, stay informed of the actual facts and for a few small moments in our miserable lives, remember those that have given their lives so we can live ours today!

Ha you tell them! Tried to tell them but they never listened. Tut tut tut

owenc

aDeener wrote: »

that has to be up there for most irritating post to read on boards

Not that you would ever experience living in Northern Ireland!:mad: I hate it when people try and tell me what its like and that the things i say never happened because they sound daft.:rolleyes:

owenc

LordSutch wrote: »

I'm guessing Derry City, and/or Glasgow Celtic ?

:rolleyes: Typical of them derry wans. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Biggins, it is quite irrelevant what it meant in the beginning. Fact is that meaning has changed. Nowadays the poppy is not just for the BA men who died in WW1. It simply is not. It is a political symbol. It honors the actions of BA men since WW1. Just watch any armistice day programs or BBC news bulletins. You will hear lots of things about the men in Iraq etc. Even the money goes towards those men.
It is a highly political symbol. Just watch how it is used in the north.

1. Where is the north?

2. How the heck is the poppy used in political means it is just put on that is all.

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Exactluy. Why be a part of a support system for people like that?





Was waiting for that. Honestly just **** off with that bollux.

An overall question for you.

Why are you republican, why are you bothered by what is going on in Northern Ireland why can't you just get on with your life and be happy you aren't affected by it? I just can't get why people in southern ireland care so much about this they aren't affected by it, because i couldn't care less what happened in your country no harm to you. Was it past down by your grandparents?

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Sorry about that, will do so now.


Those who stood up and were counted in the North and in Iraq?


What happens when the "hi jackers" outnumber people like yourself?

Well it has been.

Some would argue that the lily has been.

But people wont question your wearing of the poppy, they will just assume, won't they? Unless you are gonna go around explaining to every person you meet why you are wearing it.

Where is this north you talk about.

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

An overall question for you.

Why are you republican, why are you bothered by what is going on in Northern Ireland why can't you just get on with your life and be happy you aren't affected by it? I just can't get why people in southern ireland care so much about this they aren't affected by it, because i couldn't care less what happened in your country no harm to you. Was it past down by your grandparents?

Thought you had left this site for good?

Strange that I am bothered by what happens in my home land is it? I live on it. Seen as I live in a border area I am affected by it. No, none of my family are Republicans actually.

My name is URL

owenc wrote: »

*epic post barrage*

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57595574&postcount=7

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thought you had left this site for good?

Strange that I am bothered by what happens in my home land is it? I live on it. Seen as I live in a border area I am affected by it. No, none of my family are Republicans actually.

Your not in the so called "affected area". Are you from donegal.:eek: Why did you decide to become one then.

owenc

My name is URL wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57595574&postcount=7

I know how to do that i just couldn't because i had to refresh the page and all.

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

Where is this north you talk about.

Well Owen, there is this Island called Ireland. You live on it. And, like most places, a compass works here. And north is the part of the island which is most northerly. Which would include ulster. Understand? Or is that too difficult?

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Well Owen, there is this Island called Ireland. You live on it. And, like most places, a compass works here. And north is the part of the island which is most northerly. Which would include ulster. Understand? Or is that too difficult?

Oh so your talking about donegal then?

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

Your not in the so called "affected area". Are you from donegal.:eek: Why did you decide to become one then.

Why does anyone decide to become anything? Was not a conscious decision. And as we are so fond of subcategorizing people my feelings and opinions would be under the rather large republican umbrella.

Anyway, enough about me.

owenc

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why does anyone decide to become anything? Was not a conscious decision. And as we are so fond of subcategorizing people my feelings and opinions would be under the rather large republican umbrella.

Anyway, enough about me.

Whatever i just know why you care about another country, its none of your business. no offence like.

Wolfe Tone

owenc wrote: »

Oh so your talking about donegal then?

As you well know, I am talking about the northern part of this island. The six. Stop being obtuse.