the Poppy

epgc3fyqirnbsx

These should be called argument boards rather than discussion boards....

OP wanted to wear a poppy cos his granddad was at the Somme, no doubt horrifying, and said there would probably be a backlash. And here it is.
It is very easy to find fault with the purpose of anything, but in some situations perhaps the sentiment is where the focus should rest, that is the sentiment of rememberence for the multitudes that died, for whatever cause, it's a hell of a lot of human life that was ended needlessly.
Rememberence highlights what happened, as such this can educate us all as to why it happened and most importantly as to why we should not let these things happen again.

Wearing a poppy isn't gonna hurt anyone, if you dont like it look at something else

fontanalis

Can someone clear something up for me (somewhat related)? Isn't the song Green Fields of France (Willie McBride) about the Somme or at least a WW1 battle?
How did it end up being a nationalist song?

Biggins

gurramok wrote: »

Re-read your edited post..this one yeh?

"Then an American came up with the idea of wearing it, thereafter a French person came up with the idea of selling them for a noble cause.

Its far, far from being just a British thing."

It is a nationalistic British thing, they hijacked it. I have never seen Americans nor French wearing the poppy.

De-nationalise it as a symbol so all nations can wear it in harmony.

A country can hi-jack all they want but those that chose to wear it, do so with the original intention I can assume to honour the fallen dead.
Those that do hi-jacking are rightly only put to shame as a consequence - and they can be called on it every times its seen.

Wolfe Tone

Biggins wrote: »

A country can hi-jack all they want but those that chose to wear it, do so with the original intention I can assume to honour the fallen dead.
Those that do hi-jacking are rightly only put to shame as a consequence - and they can be called on it every times its seen.

Would you wear it Biggins?

Would you wear an easter lily?

KungPao

Most people who oppose the wearing of the poppy are scummers, mostly because they'd rather smoke it.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

fontanalis wrote: »

Can someone clear something up for me (somewhat related)? Isn't the song Green Fields of France (Willie McBride) about the Somme or at least a WW1 battle?
How did it end up being a nationalist song?

There's a good question!

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Would you wear it Biggins?

Would you wear an easter lily?

It wouldn't bother me to wear both.

Brave men (and women) gave their future up so we could possibly have ours.
That sacrifice should be remembered. I don't give a damn about any hi-jackers. Stuff them.
I remember and honour the original true intention of the symbols.

Wolfe Tone

Biggins wrote: »

It wouldn't bother me to wear both.

Brave men (and women) gave their future up so we could possibly have ours.
That sacrifice should be remembered. I don't give a damn about any hi-jackers. Stuff them.
I remember and honour the original true intention of the symbols.

But the Poppy commemorates British soldiers who have died etc... not just in the world wars.

Dionysus

Bambi wrote: »

Nope, If your dear oul'great grandda helped to burn cork city in 1920 you can rest easy that the poppy brigade in this country are honouring his memory too.

Is'nt that right lads?

And this is precisely the situation: when you wear the Royal British Legion's poppy you are wearing something which is designed to commemorate all who died in the service of the British Empire/state/crown - including the Black and Tans, the Parachute Regiment and the people who presided over the deaths of tens of thousands of women and children in the British concentration camps in South Africa (1898-1902) and Kenya (1953-55).

It does not commemorate all victims of war and, as such, cannot honestly be seen as a symbol of peace. For that matter it doesn't even commemorate the Russians who helped the British. It is a nationalistic symbol. Some people here are endowing it with symbolism which it most certainly does not have, and ignoring the symbolism which it equally certainly does have.

It's not for nothing that the Royal British Legion is regarded as one of the most nationalistic and intolerant organisations in Britain. And if you're British and you don't want to wear a poppy prepare for the poppy fascists to be all over you as quick as they were on Jon Snow (the same people/ career threat that Dara Ó Bríain was alluding to in his interview on RTÉ Radio 1 this morning, by the way).

Dudess

My name is URL wrote: »

I wouldn't buy or wear one, even if it was solely an Irish thing

I refuse to perpetuate violence, or romanticize war for the sake of posterity

I don't think there was anything great or noble about the "Great" War... What I do know is that countless very young men (some only boys) were duped into being slaughtered. I think their memory deserves to be honoured, and a symbol seems a nice way to do it. I know some will use the symbol to romanticise the war, but I think it is up to the individual to imbue that symbol with what they choose.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Nice to see we are starting the republican bashing quite early in the thread.

Not republican - fanatical ra-heads. There can often be a difference.

Probably used too many times at this stage re the topic, but I think nothing beats it for summing up the true horror and ludicrousness. And it's feckin' eye-watering...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IglUmgYGxLM

Cavehill Red

poppyvalley wrote: »

I'll probably raise some tentacles..to put it mildly. I was listening to Dara O'Brian today and how he felt about wearing the poppy. It's coming up to poppy season soon. My grandfather fought in the somme for the freedom of all small nations. Some of you will say he was "misguided" but you cannot project yourselves back to the times that were in it. I live in the west of Ireland & intend to wear the poppy for november in due respects to my grandfather.

No shortage of forelock tuggers in Ireland looking for a reason to worship Mammy Britain.
My Granddad fought in the Somme too. Will I wear a poppy? Will I ****.
It doesn't mean I respect him any the less. It means I acknowledge all the more that he died for little on behalf of a foreign power that wished and wishes the Irish ill.

gurramok

Biggins wrote: »

A country can hi-jack all they want but those that chose to wear it, do so with the original intention I can assume to honour the fallen dead.
Those that do hi-jacking are rightly only put to shame as a consequence - and they can be called on it every times its seen.

Look Biggins, I know you are an informed poster

What I oppose is the funding of the proceeds of the poppy to modern day soldiers. Its a British symbol, deal with it.

I am no anti-Brit(in case reactionarys paint me as a shinner) as i have relatives who have served in the modern British army(to my distaste i might add). I believe as one whose grandfather fought on the Somme and also fought in the IRA in the War of Independence that Ireland is an independent nation and not a British one and we are proud to sit alongside other nations(including Britain) to remember those who gave their lives in WW1.

We have our own remembrance service to those who fought gallantly in WW1, you know?

Dionysus

Biggins wrote: »

Its far, far from being just a British thing.[/B]

Which explains why Barack Obama, Vladimir Putin, Nicolas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel - to take four examples - do not wear the British poppy when they represent their respective countries at WW I commemorations?

If it were such an international symbol, why aren't all these leaders wearing it?

Wolfe Tone

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think there was anything great or noble about the "Great" War... What I do know is that countless very young men (some only boys) were duped into being slaughtered. I think their memory deserves to be honoured, and a symbol seems a nice way to do it. I know some will use the symbol to romanticise the war, but I think it is up to the individual to imbue that symbol with what they choose.

Not republican - fanatical ra-heads. There can often be a difference.

Probably used too many times at this stage re the topic, but I think nothing beats it for summing up the true horror and ludicrousness. And it's feckin' eye-watering...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IglUmgYGxLM

But you are equally commending and remembering the actions etc of other British soldiers......

dan719

"I WON'T WEAR NO SYMBOL OF THOSE BRITISH B*STARDS! UP THE RA!"

No doubt the shouts up and down the country by Liverpool jersey clad twats.

I wear my poppy every year. I'll be doing it again this year. Fair play OP.

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

But the Poppy commemorates British soldiers who have died etc... not just in the world wars.

...If once chooses to opt for the wearing of it according to the "Hi-jackers" - but true wearers if they bother to know the true origin of the poppy will do so because of the American/French reasons.
It comes down to education.

Do we let the "Hi-jackers" away with it or do we refresh/teach others of the original intent and source?

"Evil persists while good men do nothing..."

Wolfe Tone

dan719 wrote: »

"I WON'T WEAR NO SYMBOL OF THOSE BRITISH B*STARDS! UP THE RA!"

No doubt the shouts up and down the country by Liverpool jersey clad twats.

I wear my poppy every year. I'll be doing it again this year. Fair play OP.

Yawn.


So everyone who objects to or does not want to wear a poppy is a Liverpool fan? I have never been so insulted in my life!!!

Oh, and the Ra thing too.

Wolfe Tone

Biggins wrote: »

...If once chooses to opt for the wearing of it according to the "Hi-jackers" - but true wearers if they bother to know the true origin of the poppy will do so because of the American/French reasons.
It comes down to education.

Do we let the "Hi-jackers" away with it or do we refresh/teach others of the original intent and source?

"Evil persists while good men do nothing..."

But what about where the money goes then?

Things change in meaning over time.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

A bit of perspective might be called for here, these are symbols to honour those who died.
AFAIK references are to those who lost their lives during a war/resistence, focus should be on the lives rather than the politics as history is written by the victors in any case.

It's always a tragedy when so many die, on either side, all war is pointless if lessons aren't learned.
Rememberences are for the lives lost under whatever circumstances least we should forget. And so ensure that it doesn't happen again.

As was said it is often the poor and uneducated who were used as cannon fodder, as it has often been the idealist and also the heroic victors.
We could even argue about who deserves what, bring up the whole freedom fighter/terrorist arguments but it's all tragedy anyway. Lives lost in war are nothing to be swept under the carpet, remember, learn and move on or it's all bloody pointless anyway (if it wasn't in the first place)

dan719

/Looks at posters on this thread.

/All the Sinn Fein lovers are on ignore already.

/Enjoys thread.

/Wears poppy

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

But what about where the money goes then?
Things change in meaning over time.

Well I have yet to buy a poppy on English soil if thats what this is about.

In the green fields of France, buying one from a French citizen wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

gurramok

dan719 wrote: »

"I WON'T WEAR NO SYMBOL OF THOSE BRITISH B*STARDS! UP THE RA!"

No doubt the shouts up and down the country by Liverpool jersey clad twats.

I wear my poppy every year. I'll be doing it again this year. Fair play OP.

Yeh Dan. Nice putting your money towards the welfare of British soldiers who fought against the founding heroes of our state and massacred our own people up north.

Bravo, jolly good fellow.

storm2811

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

But what about where the money goes then?

Things change in meaning over time.

Where does the money go specifically? Veteran hospitals/aftercare or what?

Dionysus

Jenny Melodic Hurdler wrote: »

AFAIK references are to those who lost their lives during a war/resistence, focus should be on the lives rather than the politics as history is written by the victors in any case.... Rememberences are for the lives lost under whatever circumstances least we should forget. And so ensure that it doesn't happen again.

With all due respect, this is untrue. The entire reason why these particular people are being commemorated is solely because of the circumstances under which they died: as servants of the British state.

Those who died defending other states are not being commemorated by the British poppy. As such the "circumstances" and "politics" of this commemoration are at the heart of it all. The poppy commemorations are not a mere commemoration of "tragic death" but rather they are a British commemoration of "tragic deaths" on the British side, and that side alone.

Wolfe Tone

storm2811 wrote: »

Where does the money go specifically? Veteran hospitals/aftercare or what?

The Royal British Legion (RBL), sometimes referred to as simply The Legion, is the United Kingdom's leading charity providing financial, social and emotional support to millions who have served or who are currently serving in the British Armed Forces, and their dependents.

Wouldn't be too keen on giving them my cash.

death wish

dan719 wrote: »

"I WON'T WEAR NO SYMBOL OF THOSE BRITISH B*STARDS! UP THE RA!"

No doubt the shouts up and down the country by Liverpool jersey clad twats.

I wear my poppy every year. I'll be doing it again this year. Fair play OP.

Yes My Friend Say It Proud and Say It Loud

Rules Britannia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63o8exNK4-Q

Biggins

I can totally understand why there is much feeling from both sides about this.
However if we can go back to the actual family members who also wear these items, its not about countries or hi-jackers, etc... its about their flesh and blood being spilled in "a far off field" to quote a phrase.
For them politics can go out the window, it won't bring back their loved ones from their past but the least they do, is acknowledge their sacrifice and loss in the future.

...And thats what its all about in the heart of it all.
In the rush to see possible division, we tend to over look that truer basic fact.

Wolfe Tone

Biggins wrote: »

I can totally understand why there is much feeling from both sides about this.
However if we can go back to the actual family members who also wear these items, its not about countries or hi-jackers, etc... its about their flesh and blood being spilled in "a far off field" to quote a phrase.
For them politics can go out the window, it won't bring back their loved ones from their past but the least they do, is acknowledge their sacrifice and loss in the future.

...And thats what its all about in the heart of it all.
In the rush to see possible division, we tend to over look that truer basic fact.

Bit sad that the only way they can do that is to buy a poppy and wear it isn't it?

Oh wait

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Bit sad that the only way they can do that is to buy a poppy and wear it isn't it?

Oh wait

I know what your saying but at least we can - should - further educate.
Deceased loved ones can't.

I wear the Easter lilly for the same reason when offered one.

Wolfe Tone

Biggins wrote: »

I know what your saying but at least we can - should - further educate.
Deceased loved ones can't.

I wear the Easter lilly for the same reason when offered one.

The Poppy has become a political symbol however. And unless people go around with giant stickers explaining what they actually mean it will be interpreted as such.