the Poppy

gurramok · 05-09-2010 2:36am

Its a politicised symbol Biggins. Just look at Unionists up north and British organisations using it as their message of those who fell for Britain.

Why won't you wear a shamrock to remember the Irish dead?

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 05-09-2010 2:37am

Dionysus wrote: »

With all due respect, this is untrue. The entire reason why these particular people are being commemorated is solely because of the circumstances under which they died: as servants of the British state.

Those who died defending other states are not being commemorated by the British poppy. As such the "circumstances" and "politics" of this commemoration are at the heart of it all. The poppy commemorations are not a mere commemoration of "tragic death" but rather they are a British commemoration of "tragic deaths" on the British side, and that side alone.

Ok fair enough. But I still wouldn't have a problem with commorations for the reason that it honours those who died. Even though it may in fact represent an authority that I may not have agreed with, in truth it is a device used by families to honour their dead. There's sh*t that goes with that too but it doesn't bother me.

Like was said it wasn't the politicians or the elite who died, the average joe soap in any country is sound and they are the ones who died, so I'm not gonna piss on anyones parade.

England has more shame than most countries with it's colonial past, and rightly so, but if someone wants to wear a poppy to remember a relative for a particular cause then that's their business.

It can be argued that it shouldn't be done because of shame for the states acts or whatnot, but every nation has some element of shame. We have enough here ourselves what with a blind eye given to the church and a special mention in the constitution yet no one gets a hard time for wearing shamrock on st Patricks day.
And to any die hard republican I say bombs that target civilians are inexcusable in all circumstances

We have lots that we got get upset about in any instance, OP just wants to wear a poppy for his granddad and do it I say

If someone has a problem with what that stands for then tell me what you stand for and there will be at least an equal number of problems with that

Biggins · 05-09-2010 2:38am

gurramok wrote: »

Its a politicised symbol Biggins. Just look at Unionists up north and British organisations using it as their message of those who fell for Britain.

Why won't you wear a shamrock to remember the Irish dead?

Who says I wouldn't?
If any symbol was adopted to remember our fallen, I'd gladly and proudly wear it.
No argument there.

Owwmykneecap · 05-09-2010 2:39am

Jenny Melodic Hurdler wrote: »

Wear it, you're grandfather had the courage of his convictions and the great war was a noble one in a lot of respects

There was nothing noble about WWI it was the slow butchery of a generation brought about by the whims of aristocrats having spats within their barely extended family.

Dudess · 05-09-2010 2:39am

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No shortage of forelock tuggers in Ireland looking for a reason to worship Mammy Britain.

What about the young boys, whatever nationality, who were sent to their deaths by bureaucrats behind mahogany desks? Y'know, Ken Loach made a good point around the time The Wind That Shakes The Barley was out - there were powerless Irish people being treated like sh1t by certain British people, but there were also plenty of powerless British people being treated like sh1t by certain British people too... the two groups should have been united, but sadly it wasn't to be.

My Granddad fought in the Somme too. Will I wear a poppy? Will I ****.
It doesn't mean I respect him any the less. It means I acknowledge all the more that he died for little on behalf of a foreign power that wished and wishes the Irish ill.

Britain wishes the Irish ill...?

dan719 wrote: »

/Looks at posters on this thread.

/All the Sinn Fein lovers are on ignore already.

/Enjoys thread.

/Wears poppy

Well wearing it as an "up yours" to republicans, even the dumb-ass ones, is pretty immature and petty, and only stooping to the dumb-ass ones' level...

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 2:39am

Biggins wrote: »

Who says I wouldn't?
If any symbol was adopted to remember our fallen, I'd gladly and proudly wear it.
No argument there.

Lets make one then.

Biggins · 05-09-2010 2:41am

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The Poppy has become a political symbol however. And unless people go around with giant stickers explaining what they actually mean it will be interpreted as such.

Very true - so we let them away with it or educate.
With honest respect, I'm a stubborn sod - I chose to educate.

(Maybe thats why I'm such a pain in the ass to some!)

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 2:44am

Biggins wrote: »

Very true - so we let them away with it or educate.
With honest respect, I'm a stubborn sod - I chose to educate.

(Maybe thats why I'm such a pain in the ass to some!)

So time to make some educational stickers then? haha

brianthebard · 05-09-2010 2:57am

jaysus its only september, going to be a long three months on boards....

Biggins · 05-09-2010 2:58am

brianthebard wrote: »

jaysus its only September, going to be a long three months on boards....

Three months to set the record straight - and adopt our own symbol.

Any other suggestions?

brianthebard · 05-09-2010 3:04am

Biggins wrote: »

Three months to set the record straight - and adopt our own symbol.
Any other suggestions?

What's wrong with the lily/not having a fecking symbol in the first place?

KeithAFC · 05-09-2010 3:07am

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Wouldn't be too keen on giving them my cash.

Then don't. No one is asking you to.

I will remember the people who fought for my country. RIP to all the Volunteers.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 3:07am

brianthebard wrote: »

What's wrong with the lily/not having a fecking symbol in the first place?

I know some people do not like the Lily because of the implication that it may refer to PIRA men also.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 3:08am

KeithAFC wrote: »

Then don't. No one is asking you to.

I will remember the people who fought for my country. RIP to all the Volunteers.

Dont worry your little head, the only people getting my cash will be publicans.

gurramok · 05-09-2010 3:12am

KeithAFC wrote: »

I will remember the people who fought for my country. RIP to all the Volunteers.

Died for Britain yeh.

At least you're honest(fair play) unlike the posters through ignorance who think buying a poppy does not remember Britains fallen in all wars\conflicts.

KeithAFC · 05-09-2010 3:14am

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Dont worry your little head, the only people getting my cash will be publicans.

I wouldn't expect you to understand anyway. Most of this generation can't hold a candle to them people. Those lads fought together, Irish and British. Catholic and Protestant. Fought together as one and died together. We should never ever forget them.

We can't possibly imagine what they went through. All of them are heroes. Seeing your mate being helped up the treches, helping each other trying to survive. Amazing men.

KeithAFC · 05-09-2010 3:16am

gurramok wrote: »

Died for Britain yeh.

At least you're honest(fair play) unlike the posters through ignorance who think buying a poppy does not remember Britains fallen in all wars\conflicts.

Yeah. I think Irish people should remember the Irish lads who fought together with British lads. They were as one. I think the Poppy is a British thing really but i have nothing against any Irish lads wearing one.

brianthebard · 05-09-2010 3:18am

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I know some people do not like the poppy because of the implication that it may refer to PIRA men also.

I imagine you meant lily and not poppy in this post?

KeithAFC wrote: »

I wouldn't expect you to understand anyway. Most of this generation can't hold a candle to them people. Those lads fought together, Irish and British. Catholic and Protestant. Fought together as one and died together. We should never ever forget them.

Epic lolz, the Irish regiments were denied the right to wear the shamrock during the war while British and Ulster regiments were allowed their own insignia. But of course they all fought and died together as equals on the battlefield. :rolleyes: I suppose the Irish soldiers were just glad they weren't asian.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 3:18am

KeithAFC wrote: »

I wouldn't expect you to understand anyway. Most of this generation can't hold a candle to them people. Those lads fought together, Irish and British. Catholic and Protestant. Fought together as one and died together. We should never ever forget them.

We can't possibly imagine what they went through. All of them are heroes. Seeing your mate being helped up the treches, helping each other trying to survive. Amazing men.

I can understand the sentiments you have there perfectly well. I just would not be too keen on commemorating British soldiers.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 3:19am

brianthebard wrote: »

I imagine you meant lily and not poppy in this post?

Epic lolz, the Irish regiments were denied the right to wear the shamrock during the war while British and Ulster regiments were allowed their own insignia. But of course they all fought and died together as equals on the battlefield. :rolleyes: I suppose the Irish soldiers were just glad they weren't asian.

Yes I meant Lily.... must be getting tired. Keiths talk of volunteers confused me! haha

Biggins · 05-09-2010 3:21am

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yes I meant Lily.... must be getting tired. Keiths talk of volunteers confused me! haha

3.20am in the morning, life can get very confusing. :pac:

(I'm off to my bed, the wifey just came looking for me!)

KeithAFC · 05-09-2010 3:22am

brianthebard wrote: »

I imagine you meant lily and not poppy in this post?

Epic lolz, the Irish regiments were denied the right to wear the shamrock during the war while British and Ulster regiments were allowed their own insignia. But of course they all fought and died together as equals on the battlefield. :rolleyes: I suppose the Irish soldiers were just glad they weren't asian.

They died together on the battlefield. Everyone is aware of what the times were like back then. But lets not sidestep the main point. Irish and British lads fought together and died together as one in those trenches.

Its really that simple.

KeithAFC · 05-09-2010 3:23am

What was Dara O'brien saying anyway?

KrazeeEyezKilla · 05-09-2010 3:23am

KeithAFC wrote: »

I wouldn't expect you to understand anyway. Most of this generation can't hold a candle to them people. Those lads fought together, Irish and British. Catholic and Protestant. Fought together as one and died together. We should never ever forget them.

Died being the important word. Ideally any rememberence of war would focus purely on the people who lost their lives It's too easy for some to use it to glorify war both past and present.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 3:24am

Biggins wrote: »

3.20am in the morning, life can get very confusing. :pac:

(I'm off to my bed, the wifey just came looking for me!)

Wahey!

KeithAFC · 05-09-2010 3:28am

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote: »

Died being the important word. Ideally any rememberence of war would focus purely on the people who lost their lives It's too easy for some to use it to glorify war both past and present.

I agree. War is nasty and WW1 is without a doubt, the biggest waste of life but i think its very important we always remember these men.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 3:31am

KeithAFC wrote: »

I agree. War is nasty and WW1 is without a doubt, the biggest waste of life but i think its very important we always remember these men.

Yes but the poppy is not just about WW1.......

Muas Tenek · 05-09-2010 3:37am

“All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers.” Francois Fenelon (1651–1715)

We should all remember that those who have given their lives in war have done so serving whatever it was that they thought was right at the time. Whether we wear a poppy for the heroes of the great war and all other wars or a lily for the heroes that fought in 1916 and 1922-23 here in Ireland is a strictly private choice. I am currently researching my family history and so far I have found family members on both sides of the Irish war of independence as well as one who's grave I visited recently at Cassino in Italy who fought with the British army. I will not be wearing a poppy (or a lily) but I will not vilify anyone who does. (see first sentence)

krudler · 05-09-2010 4:09am

bazmaiden wrote: »

That's a pretty cool story, bro

LOL, BRILLIANT!

Do you write your own material? please tell me someone is paying you to perform comedy, because original stuff like that is so rare these days, nobody on an internet forum ever has written that, something so fresh must be copyrighted, go, go now, protect your witty remark!

The Highwayman · 05-09-2010 4:24am

poppyvalley wrote: »

I'll probably raise some tentacles..to put it mildly. I was listening to Dara O'Brian today and how he felt about wearing the poppy. It's coming up to poppy season soon. My grandfather fought in the somme for the freedom of all small nations. Some of you will say he was "misguided" but you cannot project yourselves back to the times that were in it. I live in the west of Ireland & intend to wear the poppy for november in due respects to my grandfather.

What about the fighting for the freedom of this small nation?

Bit ironic fighting in france in the british army to free small countrys when we were still under the jackboot of british imperialism.

the Poppy

Comments