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the Poppy

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    #182
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    The British armed forces should be providing for her ex-service men not handouts from the public [or Blairs blood money].

    That's a good point. The British Legion campaigns for exactly that.


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    #183
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    The British armed forces should be providing for her ex-service men not handouts from the public [or Blairs blood money]. The poppy appeal releases the obligation on the British armed forces and allows them to funnel the money elsewhere.



    As far as i know any person Irish or otherwise who served in the brittish armed forces is entilted to a pension,which though not much is paid monthly , they just have to apply.


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    #184
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    It is for members of the BA who have died since WW1, it is NOT just those who died in WW1.
    Irish people have served in the BA. We will remember them.


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    #185
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Irish people have served in the BA. We will remember them.
    Seen as you have such a keen interest in remembering Irish soldiers I trust you wear an easter lily?


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    #186
    brummytom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    I wear the poppy as a sign of respect/remembrance for all who've died in war. I don't advocate violence, I don't wear it for any political reason, I don't approve of the majority of the wars, but that doesn't mean I value the lives of those men who've died any less.


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    #187
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    brummytom wrote: »
    I wear the poppy as a sign of respect/remembrance for all who've died in war. I don't advocate violence, I don't wear it for any political reason, I don't approve of the majority of the wars, but that doesn't mean I value the lives of those men who've died any less.

    Reasonable response: Indeed. And that is how most people wear the poppy.

    AH agitator response: So you're in favour of genocide, then, are you? Eh? Eh?


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    #188
    poppyvalley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭poppyvalley


    BluesBerry wrote: »
    We traced our family back and a good few of the men in our family fought in WW1 my grandmother has said this every year that she would love to wear the poppy in honour of her uncle but she could never find them for sale in Ireland

    Can you buy them in the republic or would you have to travel north to get them there ?

    I get afew from the local protestant clergyman


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    #189
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    brummytom wrote: »
    I wear the poppy as a sign of respect/remembrance for all who've died in war.... I don't wear it for any political reason

    Does your remembrance including Irish freedom fighters, Germans, Austrians and everybody else who fought against the British?

    Somehow I don't think the British poppy was designed to commemorate such, well, "people". Don't be too surprised if people don't get your idiosyncratic interpretation on the meaning of the British poppy. I don't think that any day soon you'll find the Royal British Legion saying their poppy now commemorates all those people who fought and died for Irish freedom from British imperialism.


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    #190
    Dermighty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Dermighty


    hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler hitler

    Hopefully this thread will end soon :P


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    #191
    dan719
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭dan719


    Dudess wrote: »
    The naa-naa-na-naa-naa language you were using?

    WTF? :confused:

    Seriously, I'm not seeing it at all? I'm pretty sure I didn't say naa na na na and so on either?


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    #192
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Sorry, Dionysus, I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Is English your first language?
    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    The B]Royal[/B], you forgot [I]Royal[/I British Legion in the Republic of Ireland provides support to exB]British[/B-servicemen and their families in Ireland, and as far as I am aware does not channel funds into supporting illegal wars. It is not only British people who benefit from donations.

    That is true; it also supports those Irish people who fought for the British state as it persecuted, occupied and tortured populations across the world (including very, very many Irish people). And you support rewarding such people?

    Saying the money does not go to financing wars but rather to relieving the responsibility of the British state to finance the well-being of its former cannonfodder/soldiers is akin to saying I don't give money to the IRA but I'll give money to the prisoners' wives and dependents' fund of volunteers. You are subsidising/financing the British military when you donate money to the Royal British Legion. Dress it up as you will. You are supporting British warfare against all others (including the Irish) when you buy a British poppy.


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    #193
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    I wear one to remember all who have fallen. But mostly to ceremonies to remember the peoples army.


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    #194
    poppyvalley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭poppyvalley


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Why do you have to fund a British Army organisation to remember them? Can't people simply think about their relatives instead of buying a plastic flower and funding the British Legion? How about going to your grandparent's grave and leaving some real flowers? Oh yeah, that might be too much like an effort. So much easier to pose about wearing some plastic tack from the UK on your lapel so that everyone can see you don't support the Ra.



    Twas ever thus. But that doesn't in the slightest provide any coherent reason for buying a poppy and funding the British Legion.
    Effectively, doing so is providing indirect financial support for the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, since the services provided by the British Legion to their forces returning from those occupations would have to be provided directly by the army if people didn't buy those poppies.



    Yes. Not the common British person of course with whom the average Irish person has a profound amount in common, but the elite. Again, twas ever thus.
    They occupy a quarter of our country, patrol our borders and our waters, oversee our lighthouses, use our police as intelligence gatherers, and so on. We are a mockery of independence really. We are a tame vassal Ireland dominated culturally and in terms of power structures by Britain.
    They do heroic work with the RNLI. They welcome our emigrants. They give us the best television programmes in the world for free. They gave us (well...some of us) the English language. They protected us from the Germans in two wars also from Spanish & French invasions and so on


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    #195
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    poppyvalley wrote: »
    They do heroic work with the RNLI. They welcome our emigrants. They give us the best television programmes in the world for free. They gave us (well...some of us) the English language. They protected us from the Germans in two wars also from Spanish & French invasions and so on
    Do you really want a list of the bad things the BA have done?


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    #196
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Do you really want a list of the bad things the BA have done?
    What about all the good things? D day landings, pegasus bridge, fighting to free jews in concentration camps.


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    #197
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What about all the good things? D day landings, pegasus bridge, fighting to free jews in concentration camps.
    Shame then that the poppy is not just in memory of those who died doing "good" things then isn't it?


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    #198
    brummytom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Does your remembrance including Irish freedom fighters, Germans, Austrians and everybody else who fought against the British?


    Yes, it does.
    Somehow I don't think the British poppy was designed to commemorate such, well, "people". Don't be too surprised if people don't get your idiosyncratic interpretation on the meaning of the British poppy. I don't think that any day soon you'll find the Royal British Legion saying their poppy now commemorates all those people who fought and died for Irish freedom from British imperialism.

    I think most sensible people do 'get' my 'interpretation' on the meaning of the poppy; and every person I know wears it for the same reason

    I don't wear it to be nationalistic, I wear it in remembrance of every soldier killed, on both sides. As I said, I don't approve of war, but that doesn't make their deaths any less of a tragedy.


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    #199
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Shame then that the poppy is not just in memory of those who died doing "good" things then isn't it?
    Do you not remember the people who have died in the wars?


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    #200
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    poppyvalley wrote: »
    They do heroic work with the RNLI. They welcome our emigrants. They give us the best television programmes in the world for free. They gave us (well...some of us) the English language. They protected us from the Germans in two wars also from Spanish & French invasions and so on

    Are you for real? Have you ever read a single history book on any of these issues? (and that includes those studies which show English-speaking Irish emigrants in the US did not have any significant benefit over, for example, Italian-speaking emigrants in the US)


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    #201
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Do you not remember the people who have died in the wars?
    Hah, I think the real question is do I honor those who died and fought in unjust wars, committed heinous crimes etc etc..... by wearing a poppy. No I don't.


    Seen as you are so keen on remembering Irish soldiers, do you wear an easter lily?


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    #202
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Hah, I think the real question is do I honor those who died and fought in unjust wars etc etc..... by wearing a poppy. No I don't.


    Seen as you are so keen on remembering Irish soldiers, do you wear an easter lily?
    No i don't. I remember Irish people who fought together with British people and died together.


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    #203
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No i don't. I remember Irish people who fought together with British people and died together.
    So who cares about the Irish soldiers then unless they fought for the queen?


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    #204
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No i don't. I remember Irish people who fought together with British people and died together.

    do you not know that james connolly was british? :rolleyes:
    :pac:


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    #205
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So who cares about the Irish soldiers then unless they fought for the queen?
    What soldiers? The ones who didn't fight together with British soldiers? I don't care for them to be honest. Just being honest.


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    #206
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What soldiers? The ones who didn't fight together with British soldiers? I don't care for them to be honest. Just being honest.
    As I thought then.


    Soldiers such as those who fought in 1916 and the war of Independence.


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    #207
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What soldiers? The ones who didn't fight together with British soldiers? I don't care for them to be honest. Just being honest.

    So it is about politics then.. and not just reverence?


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    #208
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    My name is URL wrote: »
    So it is about politics then.. and not just reverence?
    Of course. Everything is about politics. I respect what they believed they fought for but i don't remember them.


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    #209
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Do you not remember the people who have died in the wars?

    I, for one, do indeed: Tomás an tSíoda and his family (1537); Ruairí Óg Ó Mórdha (1577); Eoghan Rua Ó Néill (1649); Theobald Dillon (1691); Theobald Wolfe Tone (1798); Allen, Larkin and O Brien (1867) Pádraig Mac Piarais (1916); Joe McDonnell (1981)....

    (to mention a tiny, tiny number of the largely anonymous men and women who have died in "the wars")


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    #210
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Of course. Everything is about politics. I respect what they believed they fought for but i don't remember them.

    That's why it's such a sticky topic in this country.. people had family members killed by the BA, and you expect them to show respect towards the people responsible, while at the same time denying that those killed were fighting for a cause which also deserves to be remembered

    It's crap like that which is the reason I would never wear a poppy/lily or celebrate what has happened in the past. The place would be better of if we stopped selectively adorning people who have gone before us


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    #211
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    What soldiers? The ones who didn't fight together with British soldiers? I don't care for them to be honest. Just being honest.

    Ah. Thank you for your honesty, Keith. Those few people in Ireland who still believe the British poppy is an impartial, apolitical symbol of commemoration and peace please take note.


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