the Poppy

Callan57

“So, here while the mad guns curse overhead,
And tired men sigh with mud for couch and floor,
Know that we fools, now with the foolish dead,
Died not for flag, nor King, nor Emperor –
But for a dream, born in a herdsman’s shed,
And for the secret scripture of the poor.”
- Thomas Kettle

poppyvalley

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Do you really want a list of the bad things the BA have done?

yeah as long as you dont tell me things that they did also to their own people

Biggins

A Soldier's Grave

Then in the lull of midnight, gentle arms
Lifted him slowly down the slopes of death
Lest he should hear again the mad alarms
Of battle, dying moans, and painful breath.

And where the earth was soft for flowers we made
A grave for him that he might better rest.
So, Spring shall come and leave it seet arrayed,
And there the lark shall turn her dewy nest

Francis Ledwidge (Irish)
(Ledwidge was killed on 31 July on the opening day of the third Battle of Ypres by an exploding shell.)

Donkey Oaty

Dionysus wrote: »

Dress it up as you will. You are supporting British warfare against all others (including the Irish) when you buy a British poppy.

For reasons already explained by brummytom amongst others, that's poppy-cock.

Wolfe Tone

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

For reasons already explained by brummtom amongst others, that's poppy-cock.

Brummy made up his own meaning for the poppy tbf.

Donkey Oaty

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Brummy made up his own meaning for the poppy tbf.

He did. As do you.

Wolfe Tone

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

He did. As do you.

No, I haven't. The poppy is intended to honour the "sacrifice" of BA soldiers since WW1. In addition to that the money raised goes to current and ex BA soldiers none who did anything in WW1.

Dionysus

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

For reasons already explained by brummytom amongst others, that's poppy-cock.

It's actually a fact. You don't need to ace your ACCA exams in accountancy to see that by funding the welfare of British troops via purchasing a British poppy you are allowing the British state to avoid their responsibilities in this regard and spend more money on warfare.

Anyway, why you feel some need to fund the people who have been slamming Irish people up against walls, shooting-to-kill them, intimidating them at checkpoints, torturing them in Castlereagh Holding Centre and much, much else (and that's just Ireland) is a rather extreme (if not contradictory) instance of cognitive dissonance.

My name is URL

Here's some links for those who genuinely wear a poppy in order to raise funds for the families of soldiers.. you can cut out the middle man and donate directly to the funds

http://www.soldierscharity.org/
http://www.rafbf.org/
http://www.rnbt.org.uk/

Donkey Oaty

Dionysus wrote: »

It's actually a fact. You don't need to ace your ACCA exams in accountancy to see that by funding the welfare of British troops via purchasing a British poppy you are allowing the British state to avoid their responsibilities in this regard and spend more money on warfare.

Aha - but the British Legion campaigns for MORE welfare payments and assistance for soldiers, with some success.

So really what you are saying is that they are preventing warfare.

ejmaztec

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No shortage of forelock tuggers in Ireland looking for a reason to worship Mammy Britain.
My Granddad fought in the Somme too. Will I wear a poppy? Will I ****.
It doesn't mean I respect him any the less. It means I acknowledge all the more that he died for little on behalf of a foreign power that wished and wishes the Irish ill.

Rubbish!

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

No, I haven't. The poppy is intended to honour the "sacrifice" of BA soldiers since WW1. In addition to that the money raised goes to current and ex BA soldiers none who did anything in WW1.

The meaning of the poppy.

* In modern times, poppies have been associated with Flanders fields as an emblem of those who died in World War I.

Source: http://www.livingartsoriginals.com/flower-poppies.htm

*The red poppy signifies sacrifice. The flower is used to honour soldiers, particularly in Canada. The connection began during Napoleonic wars of the 19th century. The war-disturbed soil uncovered poppy seeds that grew to cover the fighting fields in a sea of red. During the First World War, Flanders came alive with poppies, when the effects of the war disappeared, the poppies did too. The poem "In Flanders Fields" by John McCrae renewed the poppies' connection to war and death.

Source: http://www.ehow.com/facts_5586258_poppy-flower-mean_.html

Now a few can ON BOTH SIDES of a divide for their own twisted reasons, can use the poppy either for
a. A reason to invoke hatred of a country.
b. Use it as a propaganda weapon for their own means - for the way THEY see it!
c. See it as a way of supporting an enemy empire!

Meanwhile, and let me say this straight - I don't give a crap for all the above schite.

When I see a poppy, I see a symbol for lives lost - YES, IRISH LIVES TOO - that died on a foreign field. AND THATS IT!
And you know what they died for?

So that thugs, be they in governments, balaclaved or emanating from corrupt empires, should no longed be allowed force their outdated ideology, ways and/or opinions down our ruddy throats.
I don't need to be told to go adopt another symbol - hell, men and women died so we as individuals can have a right to chose! To stay with a present one and NOT be forced or intimidated into adopting another!

...But fcuk it too! Lets nicely over look that fact of their ultimate sacrifice so we can continue to spin our ever flowing words of hatred, enemies and divides - and speak of peace then with the same hypocritical tongue!

A lot of people here need a god damn education!

I don't give a flying rats arse what way a republican element see the poppy and I don't give a rats arse if the British want to use it as a symbol of an empire.

I see it for what its truly is and was and IS originally intended for.
Thats it - end of fcukin' story!

Donkey Oaty

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

No, I haven't. The poppy is intended to honour the "sacrifice" of BA soldiers since WW1. In addition to that the money raised goes to current and ex BA soldiers none who did anything in WW1.

I wonder if you are in favour of (or at best, indifferent to) some bits of the ethos behind the poppy appeal and against others?

If people want to remember dead soldiers, for good or for bad, is there anything wrong with that?

Minstrel27

I couldn't care less about who wears a poppy or who doesn't.

Donkey Oaty

Biggins wrote: »

...But fcuk it too! Lets nicely over look that fact so we can continue to spin our ever flowing words of hatred, enemies and divides - and speak of peace then with the same hypocritical tongue!

Put that in the election leaflet. I dare ya!

Donkey Oaty

Minstrel27 wrote: »

I couldn't care less about who wears a poppy or who doesn't.

I totally agree with this gentleman, but I have expressed it in rather different ways.

Biggins

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Put that in the election leaflet. I dare ya!

...And the vast majority of the people of our state are sick of what?
Lies? Intimidation? Being bullied by higher/lower powers while being told its for our own good?

I think the public would welcome to basic truths for bloody once!

baldbear

I really enjoyed Dara O'Brien talking about the wearing of the Poppy. It's an interesting debate.
People on tv in the UK just wear them with out any thought these days, it's like if you don't the poppy fascist police will be after you.

I admire people who don't allow there beliefs to waver and decide not to wear it. Such as Nadine Coyle. As a girl from Derry i understand totally where she didn't wear it in 08.

john Snow did it too and got ridiculed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6134906.stm

Donkey Oaty

baldbear wrote: »

john Snow did it too and got ridiculed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6134906.stm

My impression from the media reports was that John Snow was widely respected for his stance, but there we go.

Prepare yourselves for an onslaught of articles once "The Apprentice: You're Fired!" hits the air in November.

ejmaztec

baldbear wrote: »

I really enjoyed Dara O'Brien talking about the wearing of the Poppy. It's an interesting debate.
People on tv in the UK just wear them with out any thought these days, it's like if you don't the poppy fascist police will be after you.

I admire people who don't allow there beliefs to waver and decide not to wear it. Such as Nadine Coyle. As a girl from Derry i understand totally where she didn't wear it in 08.

john Snow did it too and got ridiculed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6134906.stm

Didn't BBC NI's Donna Traynor refuse to wear it a few years ago, and disappeared from the screen for a few days as a result?

Dionysus

baldbear wrote: »

I really enjoyed Dara O'Brien talking about the wearing of the Poppy. It's an interesting debate.
People on tv in the UK just wear them with out any thought these days, it's like if you don't the poppy fascist police will be after you.

I admire people who don't allow there beliefs to waver and decide not to wear it. Such as Nadine Coyle. As a girl from Derry i understand totally where she didn't wear it in 08.

john Snow did it too and got ridiculed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6134906.stm

Dara Ó Bríain. I agree with you. It was a very thoughtful interview on Ó Bríain's behalf. For a comedian he's surprisingly articulate and thoughtful. But it was interesting that he said that he felt pressurised to wear the poppy this year after the abuse he got last year (for not wearing it) and because it would look very bad if he was the only person on stage in the group who refused to wear the poppy.

The distinct impression he gave in that RTÉ interview was that he was being bullied into wearing it - what Jon Snow termed "poppy fascism".

Donkey Oaty

Dionysus wrote: »

Dara Ó Bríain. I agree with you. It was a very thoughtful interview on Ó Bríain's behalf. For a comedian he's surprisingly articulate and thoughtful. But it was interesting that he said that he felt pressurised to wear the poppy this year after the abuse he got last year (for not wearing it) and because it would look very bad if he was the only person on stage in the group who refused to wear the poppy.

It was interesting that he said his reasons for not wearing it were respectful, that he didn't feel he had the right to wear it, and that it was like he would be intruding into other people's territory.

Good for him.

KeithAFC

Dionysus wrote: »

Dara Ó Bríain. I agree with you. It was a very thoughtful interview on Ó Bríain's behalf. For a comedian he's surprisingly articulate and thoughtful. But it was interesting that he said that he felt pressurised to wear the poppy this year after the abuse he got last year (for not wearing it) and because it would look very bad if he was the only person on stage in the group who refused to wear the poppy.

The distinct impression he gave in that RTÉ interview was that he was being bullied into wearing it - what Jon Snow termed "poppy fascism".

I would of thought he would of been happy to wear one. He does make a living from people in the UK.

Biggins

What about the people that are bullied or intimidated into NOT wearing it?
It works both ways!

Donkey Oaty

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would of thought he would of been happy to wear one. He does make a living from people in the UK.

He didn't on The One Show last November, and the posters on the comments section were mostly against him.

Dara is an Anglophile and I hope people will understand his position on this. It's not disrespectful - quite the opposite.

KeithAFC

Biggins wrote: »

What about the people that are bullied or intimidated into NOT wearing it?
It works both ways!

I know stories of nationalists telling employees to take the poppy off when coming into work.

Biggins

KeithAFC wrote: »

I know stories of nationalists telling employees to take the poppy off when coming into work.

I know them too and it angers me.

Irish men and women died on home soil and far off fields so that bullying and a wrong ideology should be stopped and let freedoms reign.
Amazing how quickly that true fact is conveniently forgotten by some - and abused by others.

Donkey Oaty

KeithAFC wrote: »

I know stories of nationalists telling employees to take the poppy off when coming into work.

Really?

Is there anyone out there that would care to justify this?

Dionysus

Biggins wrote: »

I know them too and it angers me.

Why? Do you think you should have a carte blanche right to glorify people who died for the British state fighting against the Irish (and many others) and not be pulled up on the morality of what you are glorifying?

There is nothing worthy of "commemoration" about the British state claiming lands beyond Britain and murdering, persecuting and torturing the natives of those lands to assert that "right". So much for "morality".

Wolfe Tone

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I wonder if you are in favour of (or at best, indifferent to) some bits of the ethos behind the poppy appeal and against others?

If people want to remember dead soldiers, for good or for bad, is there anything wrong with that?

Entirely depends what they died doing and died for, doesn't it?