the Poppy

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 8:03pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Really?

Is there anyone out there that would care to justify this?

I have heard stories about nationalists being forced to wear the poppy, and not allowed to wear the lily. dlfonep wrote about it a while back and how the equality commission(cant remember the proper name) didn't care.

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 8:03pm

Dionysus wrote: »

Why? Do you think you should have a carte blanche right to glorify people who died for the British state fighting against the Irish (and many others) and not be pulled up on the morality of what you are glorifying?

There is nothing worthy of "commemoration" about the British state claiming lands beyond Britain and murdering, persecuting and torturing the natives of those lands to assert that "right". So much for "morality".

Gosh. I thought Biggins said he didn't like people being told to remove a poppy at work.

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 8:05pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Entirely depends what they died doing and died for, doesn't it?

I suppose it does. I imagine they're a diverse bunch.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 8:07pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I suppose it does. I imagine they're a diverse bunch.

And the poppy has come to symbolize all those who have died etc in the BA since WW1. People can go on about the original intent all they want, but fact is poppys these days are just as much for those who died in Iraq(just look at who the money goes to) as in WW1.

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 8:07pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I have heard stories about nationalists being forced to wear the poppy, and not allowed to wear the lily. dlfonep wrote about it a while back and how the equality commission(cant remember the proper name) didn't care.

You are not addressing the question, merely listing from the back-catalogue of injustices.

Force of habit, I suppose. (Only joking!)

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 8:10pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

You are not addressing the question, merely listing from the back-catalogue of injustices.

Force of habit, I suppose. (Only joking!)

Ha

I understand the wish of an employer not wanting to demonstrate any political leanings of his shop. I wonder did the nationalist in question allow his employees to wear lilys? If not then I dont see the problem.

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 8:11pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I wonder did the nationalist in question allow his employees to wear lilys? If not then I dont see the problem.

And that, my friends, is what we call a nationalist perspective.

Wolfe Tone · 05-09-2010 8:13pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

And that, my friends, is what we call a nationalist perspective.

If they employer had a carpet ban on wearing political symbols then I do not see the big deal. However if he favors one over the other then I can see the grievance.

fionnsda · 05-09-2010 8:14pm

The BL collects a lot of money from the poppy appeal
where do you think it goes!
if you think they hand out the millions .....your naive
it goes into their coffers that builds and runs the clubs etc
used to work for the BL where i met a lot of ex army pensioners and widows some really poor, they used to tell me they got little or nothing maybe a bag of coal at xmas, thats it!

ejmaztec · 05-09-2010 8:15pm

Are Lilies sold, and if so, who gets the money?

ejmaztec · 05-09-2010 8:20pm

fionnsda wrote: »

The BL collects a lot of money from the poppy appeal
where do you think it goes!
if you think they hand out the millions .....your naive
it goes into their coffers that builds and runs the clubs etc
used to work for the BL where i met a lot of ex army pensioners and widows some really poor, they used to tell me they got little or nothing maybe a bag of coal at xmas, thats it!

If the British government ever actually cared about the people laying their lives on the line to defend it, there would be no need for a Poppy Appeal. Once people become of no use to them, they're left to their own devices, which is a centuries long tradition.

Biggins · 05-09-2010 8:23pm

Dionysus wrote: »

Why? Do you think you should have a carte blanche right to glorify people who died for the British state fighting against the Irish (and many others) and not be pulled up on the morality of what you are glorifying?

You see, that where an actual education is effective.

Those that died - did so not for the glory of a British empire but to defeat an advancing militaristic Germanic empire that had it own designs for forcing a way of life upon others - and some of our own Irish men recognised that tenement and stood along side many others from many countries in the trenches of distant fields.

Education in our state schools taught me that - and it taught me also not to swallow propaganda spun bullschite when I hear it.

There is nothing worthy of "commemoration" about the British state claiming lands beyond Britain and murdering, persecuting and torturing the natives of those lands to assert that "right".

No argument there in that respect but I hold the image of the poppy to its true original intent - forgive me or at least have the decency to allow me to have that right!
...Or am I to be intimidated into not wearing it?

There's a HUGE part of the subject here that every one is missing and I've touched on it a number of times.
Thats "education".

If you - I - we want to defeat an empire, defeat the wrong imagery spun today by one side or another, defeat those that speak of hatred and divide - and honour ALL our fallen dead - we should educate those of lesser knowledge to the truer facts.
And as in the case of the Poppy, never was an example of this so clear!

Why does the Taliban wish to destroy all schools in its country?
Why does the Chinese government wish to keep truths from being read on the internet?
Why does North Korea not allow their own to become informed?
Why did Hitler burn books?
Why did "hedge schools" become a necessary part of our history
The list of whys go on but they have one link. Education.

Keep the masses dumb, stupid and ill informed.
Fill them with one sided views and if that don't work, intimidate and bully.

You know what defeats that and causes the overthrow of corrupt empires and stupid armies with outdated causes and cruel ways?

Education. The ability to think freely when informed of the full facts and thus act upon them.

So when I see and speak of the poppy, I see and speak of the truth behind its original intention - not the propaganda spun by one side or another.
...And if the "unwilling to be educated" don't get that - thats their loss for they are only losing out and are dooming themselves to consistent failure.

...Meanwhile I will continue to educate those willing to listen and/or have at least have an open mind, explain about true intentions and origins (in this case, the Poppy) and not let sides spin away rantingly with their imagery and imposed meanings which they wish to try and force upon the masses.

Dudess · 05-09-2010 8:23pm

dan719 wrote: »

WTF?

Seriously, I'm not seeing it at all? I'm pretty sure I didn't say naa na na na and so on either?

Sorry - looked that way to me is all...

dan719 wrote: »

"I WON'T WEAR NO SYMBOL OF THOSE BRITISH B*STARDS! UP THE RA!"

No doubt the shouts up and down the country by Liverpool jersey clad twats.

I wear my poppy every year. I'll be doing it again this year. Fair play OP.

dan719 wrote: »

/Looks at posters on this thread.

/All the Sinn Fein lovers are on ignore already.

/Enjoys thread.

/Wears poppy

I agree with your assessment of fanatical shinners but wearing the poppy purely to piss them off would be a pathetic thing to do - you hadn't mentioned your family members' involvement so that's what I mistook your posts for.

Snickers Man · 05-09-2010 8:39pm

Jenny Melodic Hurdler wrote: »

The only people it would offend is some tosser in a celtic jersey who'd complain about foreign games

I don't think that's the argument at all. Let's turn it around.

I'm NOT going to wear one. And I don't think the president of this country should either. As president. Once she becomes a private citizen again, she can wear what she likes when she likes.

YOU can wear what you like.

You got a problem with that?

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 8:49pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

If they employer had a carpet ban on wearing political symbols then I do not see the big deal. However if he favors one over the other then I can see the grievance.

I agree, Mussolini, and what I meant to say was, let's all be in favour of freedom of expression - and if you're a nationalist, see it from your point of view.

It was meant well.

fionnsda · 05-09-2010 9:08pm

The poppy was hijacked by the unionist and loyalists people where i live
simple as that
half of the people wearing them couldn't tell you when the war was, to them its a protestant thing like the 12th of july
the BL deliver them to every shop and bar in the town where the owners have little choice but to accept them because poppy fascist customers would ask where's your poppy box, as well as going round every house collecting its a onslaught of poppys and its a money racket!

owenc · 05-09-2010 10:05pm

fionnsda wrote: »

The poppy was hijacked by the unionist and loyalists people where i live
simple as that
half of the people wearing them couldn't tell you when the war was, to them its a protestant thing like the 12th of july
the BL deliver them to every shop and bar in the town where the owners have little choice but to accept them because poppy fascist customers would ask where's your poppy box, as well as going round every house collecting its a onslaught of poppys and its a money racket!

OMG:mad: Every year i have to listen to this from protestants and catholics who obviously don't know their history. The poppy is world thing not a british thing! Anyone can wear it, the catholics here have this thing that its british and its not! In our school every year they sell them and the protestants put them on and look over at the catholics as if to say stfu, its the most stupidist thing i've ever heard in my life it just makes me wanna slap some people in my class over the face and give them a reality check. A wee girl in my class was bitching about a wee boy because he was catholic and wearing a poppy i so felt like screaming my head off her.. ugh omg. I hate this country so much! The bickering, bitching and backstabbing between protestants and catholics in my class is getting unbearable i can't cope anymore with this ****!

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-09-2010 10:10pm

owenc wrote: »

OMG:mad: Every year i have to listen to this from protestants and catholics who obviously don't know their history. The poppy is world thing not a british thing!

And every year, people have to correct you.

owenc · 05-09-2010 10:12pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

And every year, people have to correct you.

Its clearly not british and even if it was its pretty daft not to wear it because you are catholic i mean get over it!:rolleyes: Sick of the childish things people do in this country.

ejmaztec · 05-09-2010 10:15pm

owenc wrote: »

Its clearly not british and even if it was its pretty daft not to wear it because you are catholic i mean get over it!:rolleyes: Sick of the childish things people do in this country.

Have you been on holiday?

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 10:16pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Have you been on holiday?

I missed him too.

School computer?

owenc · 05-09-2010 10:20pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Have you been on holiday?

Whatever... end of its daft not wearing the poppy because its supposedly british love to see your faces if protestants never wore an irish thing because its irish. Just utterly daft, i'd never seen any of this **** until i went to school, i was shocked to say the least i thought it was pathetic the way people went on over a bloody plastic flower.

ejmaztec · 05-09-2010 10:24pm

owenc wrote: »

Whatever... end of its daft not wearing the poppy because its supposedly british love to see your faces if protestants never wore an irish thing because its irish. Just utterly daft.

I wore a poppy in the UK, but it was the same one every year for years, because I was too tight to buy another one. I think I've still got it somewhere.

owenc · 05-09-2010 10:26pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wore a poppy in the UK, but it was the same one every year for years, because I was too tight to buy another one. I think I've still got it somewhere.

and what. I don't get why "catholics" or "nationalists" don't wear the poppy?

ejmaztec · 05-09-2010 10:27pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I missed him too.

I think it's similar to the Stockholm syndrome.

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 10:27pm

owenc wrote: »

Whatever... end of its daft not wearing the poppy because its supposedly british.

I'm not sure if I agree with you or not. My thoughts:

Not wearing the poppy becacuse it's (supposedly) British: daft.

Not wearing the poppy because you don't identify with it: not daft.

padma · 05-09-2010 10:28pm

owenc wrote: »

Whatever... end of its daft not wearing the poppy because its supposedly british love to see your faces if protestants never wore an irish thing because its irish. Just utterly daft, i'd never seen any of this **** until i went to school, i was shocked to say the least i thought it was pathetic the way people went on over a bloody plastic flower.

I'm sure you've probably seen thousands of British people wearing an Easter Lily. In truth i've no interest in what people wear, yet you would do good to think about your posts first before posting

owenc · 05-09-2010 10:28pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I'm not sure if I agree with you or not. My thoughts:

Not wearing the poppy becacuse it's (supposedly) British: daft.

Not wearing the poppy because you don't identify with it: not daft.

Well thats the reasons why catholics here don't wear it and they've even said that to my face.;) Ask anyone from northern ireland and they will tell you the same.

Star Bingo · 05-09-2010 10:30pm

the poppy / poppy valley this has nothing to do with smack i take it? !

Donkey Oaty · 05-09-2010 10:32pm

owenc wrote: »

Well thats the reasons why catholics here don't wear it and they've even said that to my face.;) Ask anyone from northern ireland and they will tell you the same.

Did they say "Ach, Owen, ye wee scamp, that's a brudish thung, so it is" or was it a bit more nuanced than that?

Tell us more.

the Poppy

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