Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
The INLA
Options
Comments
-
I have not seen any books about the INLA, maybe there is something out there ?
From reading a lot about the Provisional IRA, and having lived through the "Mad Dog" McGlinchey years, I would suggest that the PIRA were policing their own areas and were strictly against drug dealing and the INLA were not.
Tim Pat Coogan has written that the Provo's in Belfast hated the local INLA guys more than the British troops. But there was a weird kind of truce between them.
The INLA have never been involved in drug-dealing, in fact not one member of the IRSM has ever been convicted of even a simple possession charge. A Garda commissioner actually made that point recently.
re, the PIRA & INLA I dont think their relationship was that stark to be honest, it varied from area to area basically. For instance, Martin McGuiness always hated the INLA/IRSP and therefore in Derry there would have been friction years ago.
The INLA have left the stage following an announcement in Bray in 2009.
re, books - you are right about that, there are lots of books written about the Provisonals and even the Officials but only one, Deadly Divisions, about the IRSM. 'DD' is a hatchet job basically, it would be like reading a history of the British Trades unions by Margaret Thatcher.
A good source of info about the history of the IRSP is: http://www.irsp.ie/0 -
Deadly Divisions was written by Henry McDonald, the Guardian's Irish correspondent and the now deceased Belfast journalist Jack Holland. The fact that it is now in it's third edition is a good indication that it has stood the test of time.
So far this is the only book written about the INLA because they were a very minor organistaion during the Troubles. In general histories of the troubles the INLA are just a footnote. Simply put, nobody else could be arsed writing about them.
How you can suggest that this book is a hatchet job pr propaganda (your daft Maggie Thatcher comparison) and then suggest the IRSP website as a good source of impartial info is beyond belief.
Here's a short quote from George Orwell's ninteen-eightyfour explaining the concept of Doublethink......"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth"0 -
re, books - you are right about that, there are lots of books written about the Provisonals and even the Officials but only one, Deadly Divisions, about the IRSM. 'DD' is a hatchet job basically, it would be like reading a history of the British Trades unions by Margaret Thatcher.
A good source of info about the history of the IRSP is: http://www.irsp.ie/
Sounds like you know your stuff, maybe you should write that book.
Too many books on "The Troubles" written by agenda-driven muppets and stickies these days.0 -
Sounds like you know your stuff, maybe you should write that book.
Too many books on "The Troubles" written by agenda-driven muppets and stickies these days.
GRMA for the vote of confidence.
The ORM and then the Workers Party have had quite an influence on the Irish media over this past 40 years.
At one time there was an RTE cumann of the Workers Party
The 'Lost Revolution' by Hanley & Miller is a great read about the rise and fall of the ORM/Workers Party.
It does mention the irps in parts of the book0 -
Deadly Divisions was written by Henry McDonald, the Guardian's Irish correspondent and the now deceased Belfast journalist Jack Holland. The fact that it is now in it's third edition is a good indication that it has stood the test of time.
So far this is the only book written about the INLA because they were a very minor organistaion during the Troubles. In general histories of the troubles the INLA are just a footnote. Simply put, nobody else could be arsed writing about them.
How you can suggest that this book is a hatchet job pr propaganda (your daft Maggie Thatcher comparison) and then suggest the IRSP website as a good source of impartial info is beyond belief.
Here's a short quote from George Orwell's ninteen-eightyfour explaining the concept of Doublethink......
The fact it's in its 3rd edition means it has stood the test of time? LOL
Henry McDonald was a stick, the INLA and the OIRA killed plenty of each others members after the OIRA killed Hugh Ferguson. You honestly expect to get a decent history of the IRSM from such a source?
There is an agenda behind that book and it's not a piece of history, it's openly hostile all throughout the book. It describes Jim Lane, a well-respected and lifelong trade unionist and political activists as having 'fantasy politics'. It tries to resurrect Gerard Steenson ie. 'Dr. Death', who later join the criminal cabal known as the IPLO, as some kind of great political thinker. Why would the author do this?
Deadly Divisions starts out ok, but the middle and the end are basically sensationalist crap, hearsay and nonsense from a person who couldn't have been more hostile to the IRSM.
Even in the recently updated edition he gets rudimentary facts wrong, such as identifying someone as a member of the INLA who had nothing to do with the IRSM at any stage. It's a hatchet job, and a poor one at that, basic things like what I mentioned are wrong. Like how hard is it to check what wing a republican prisoner went on to?0 -
Advertisement
-
Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »According to Tim Pat Coogan, it was often influenced by geography with certain Belfast estates being more sympathetic to the INLA.
Some were socialists but I got the feeling they were no different to IRA members in their outlook. It was just 'Brits Out'.0 -
Deadly Divisions was written by Henry McDonald, the Guardian's Irish correspondent and the now deceased Belfast journalist Jack Holland. The fact that it is now in it's third edition is a good indication that it has stood the test of time.
So far this is the only book written about the INLA because they were a very minor organistaion during the Troubles. In general histories of the troubles the INLA are just a footnote. Simply put, nobody else could be arsed writing about them.
How you can suggest that this book is a hatchet job pr propaganda (your daft Maggie Thatcher comparison) and then suggest the IRSP website as a good source of impartial info is beyond belief.
Here's a short quote from George Orwell's ninteen-eightyfour explaining the concept of Doublethink......
You sound very upset, why?
:rolleyes: The bible is the most re-published book in the world, so by your rationale it is accurate.....hmmm.
Three of the H-Block Hunger Strikers were from the IRSM, you may not realise that.
Deadly Divisions is of course a hatchet job by a hack whose sources were embittered ex-members & Stickies. Bizarrely, MacDonald pours scorn on the IRSP's Marxism while his party's 'intelligentsia' were jtting off to & singing the praises of North Korea.
Perhaps my analogy with Thatcher & the NUM wasnt exactly right. Lets just say it was the equivalent of a history of Sinn Fein 1997-2011 being written by Malachy O'Doherty relying on primary sources like Eamon Collins, Denis Donaldson et al.0 -
Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »Some were socialists but I got the feeling they were no different to IRA members in their outlook. It was just 'Brits Out'.
A chara, the IRSP emerged from the Official IRA & the RSM's raison d'etre has always been to stress the symbiotic relationship between a re-united Ireland and economic liberty for the Irish working-class.
As Connolly stated, 'the cause of Ireland is the cause of labor' this would be the IRSP's primary premise0 -
First off before you start the accusations that I am a stickie, west brit, , Provo, loyalist brigadeer, or worst of all an ex-PD I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not. A plague on all your houses I say.
This is the history forum, the general purpose of which as I understand it is to have objective debate about history. Kind of hard to have that though with two people who seem prepared to apologise/excuse everything the INLA did.
The reason I mentioned the book by Henry McDonald & Jack Holland is because it is the only one available about the INLA. As far as I'm concerned it gives a very accurate overview of the INLA and the constant feuding and the murders, crime and torture they engaged in.
Your problem with the book appears to be that one of the authors Henry McDonald was a former member of an organisation that was hostile to the IRSP. Following the link posted by iskra1916 leads to a page that lists all of the groups hostile to the IRSP. It includes pretty much everyone except the cub scouts and the Legion of Mary! My own personal favourites are 'the free state media & the pro-brit media'
http://iskra1916.hubpages.com/hub/Irish-Republican-Socialist-Party
You also seem to ignore the fact that the book was co-authored by Jack Holland, but I'm sure you'll be able to find some problems with him.
Just because someone writes a book about a group doesn't mean that it has to be a hagiography. Nor does it have to be based solely on what the members of that organisation want outsiders to see. If you want to learn about Nazi Germany you wouldn't just read Mein Kampf.
For anyone interested a list of INLA actions is available by following the link below. Ye can decide for yourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Irish_National_Liberation_Army_actions0 -
The IRSP/INLA....wish to agitate politically, defend working class areas from attack and confront British imperialism. ...
The movement broke from the ORM and was under the leadership of Seamus Costello, universally regarded as an exceptional political talent.
The late popular Dublin TD was very close to Costello and he joined the IRSP at this early stage. Bernadette McAliskey was also a prominent early member.
Seamus Costello might have had a slightlly higher functioning brain than some of the meat heads in the INLA but that's a long way short of being "universally regarded as an exceptional political talent."
Anybody with any sense in that "movement" was either snuffed out early on (Costello) or very quickly made their excuses and left, (McAliskey) hoping that nobody would ever remember their dalliance with such a bunch of yahoos.
Their Socialism was that of the Student Union, all sound bite and fake indignation, barely tainted by sincerity. In action they were/are rabid "state capitalists", quick to make the fastest buck in the dirtiest way and instinctive believers in the adage that a monopoly enforced by the gun with themselves behind the trigger is the most efficient business method.
That's if any of them are left. As I said "Who misses them?"0 -
Advertisement
-
Snickers Man wrote: »Seamus Costello might have had a slightlly higher functioning brain than some of the meat heads in the INLA but that's a long way short of being "universally regarded as an exceptional political talent."
Anybody with any sense in that "movement" was either snuffed out early on (Costello) or very quickly made their excuses and left, (McAliskey) hoping that nobody would ever remember their dalliance with such a bunch of yahoos.
Their Socialism was that of the Student Union, all sound bite and fake indignation, barely tainted by sincerity. In action they were/are rabid "state capitalists", quick to make the fastest buck in the dirtiest way and instinctive believers in the adage that a monopoly enforced by the gun with themselves behind the trigger is the most efficient business method.
That's if any of them are left. As I said "Who misses them?"
You seem hold a lot of resentment towards them. I have actually had the good fortune to meet a few as last while and I have it has completely change my opinion of them. To make such comparisons about there socialism is beyond farcical. If you believe it ended with Costello then I would urge you to read ‘Ta Powers’ Document. There is hell of a lot of new talent springing up within the IRSM. Their beginning to made in roads right across the board. From Trades councils to students unions, they stood quite a few councillors in the six counties in May election. They have held true to there working class roots. So fair play to them.0 -
Mod
Folks this is topic in the History forum. If you want to have a debate about current state of IRSM take it to the Politics forum.0
Advertisement