Electricity issue in rented accommodation

geeky

Electricity issue
Interesting poser, this... (mods, please move to appropriate forum if I've posted incorrectly!)

Basically, we moved in to a house during April - a few promises were broken as regards cleaning up, and a window seems to be 'on order' since back then, but nothing major. Next door to the house, a garage/extension houses what we believe is the landlord's family business.

On Friday, we were hit with a bill of €900 after the first meter reading since mid-February (we got bills after moving in, but they were estimates). this is pretty off the wall - in our last property, we never broke the €100 for electricity use. It was DD'd out of the account.

Over the weekend, with the help of my father-in-law (a former electrician) we turned off the mains, trip switch, fuses, everything. No electricity working in the house - and yet the little meter still kept turning around...

We've two theories about this: either the ESB meter is faulty, or the business next door is using our electricity (previously, the owners appeared to operate a lodger system while living in the house themselves)! I called the ESB to get them to come out and look - that way, if it is next door using our electricity, we can come to them with the ESB's say so. However, they say they won't send anyone until we get an electrician to check out the wiring and certify that the problem is with them.

The normal thing to do, obviously, would be getting on to the landlord and getting them to send someone. However, I'm afraid that if we do, they'll know that we've twigged something's up, and might switch off their electricity - leaving us without a comeback.

What do you think? Should we take the hit on an electrician ourselves? If they were to cut off the electricity flow to the business, would an electrician be able to tell what's going on? As you can guess, straight after a €900 bill coming in unexpectedly, we're not exactly flush!

Davy

Op is your bill with esb customer supply?

geeky

Yep!

Davy

geeky wrote: »

Yep!

They have a forum here, thats why i asked:> boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1349

You can ask a mod to move it their for you if you want, it might be some help to you.

It does sound like your paying for them, and their is no definite way to get true readings without using two meters. You can get a non esb meter, but its up to the landlord to do this.

Solair

If I were you I would immediately call the landlord.

You should get an electrician out to take a look at it a.s.a.p. as there are a whole load of issues that it could be.

Basic checks :

1) Check that it is actually your meter and that you have not misidentified which meter feeds your apartment. It's possible that if you gave the wrong meter reading to the ESB, or there was a mix-up for years that you could have a miscalculated bill.

The best way of doing this is to get two people. One person stands at the meter cabinet looking at the meters (Assuming there's a bank of meters) and the other stays in the apartment.
Switch absolutely everything off in the apartment and then call the person at the meter's mobile and ask them to look out for any meter that has stopped.

Then, switch something very heavy on e.g. all 4 rings on your cooker and ask the person at the meter bank to look out for a meter that has suddenly started to turn rapidly. (If it's a digital meter, there's a pulsing red LED which will flash more rapidly as power consumption increases)

If one has, then switch off the cooker again and ask the person to note whether the meter has stopped.

You should be able to figure out which meter is which this way.

Ring ESB Networks and ask them to verify that the serial number on the meter that you have identified is the same meter that they have registered on your account.

2) Visually inspect the wires entering the bottom of your meter. There should only be 4 ... i.e. Live and Neutral in and Out. If there are any extra wires or splices alert ESB Networks immediately as it's theft of power and possibly a serious fire hazard. Do not touch or poke around at these wires as contact with the supply is potentially lethal.

The best way of inspecting these is with a bright torch and just visually count the wires without touching anything.

If you see anything suspicious, take a photograph of it. You could even post it up here if you have any queries.

3) Call your landlord and explain the situation and explain that you need an electrician out a.s.a.p. to resolve the issue. It's ultimately his/her responsibility to maintain the wiring so he/she needs to do something about it a.s.a.p. If you don't get cooperation, I would suggest mentioning that you intend to hold them liable for the bill.

Contact the http://www.prtb.ie/

and http://www.threshold.ie/ for further advice.

geeky

Solair wrote: »

If I were you I would immediately call the landlord.

You should get an electrician out to take a look at it a.s.a.p. as there are a whole load of issues that it could be.

Basic checks :

1) Check that it is actually your meter and that you have not misidentified which meter feeds your apartment. It's possible that if you gave the wrong meter reading to the ESB, or there was a mix-up for years that you could have a miscalculated bill.

The best way of doing this is to get two people. One person stands at the meter cabinet looking at the meters (Assuming there's a bank of meters) and the other stays in the apartment.
Switch absolutely everything off in the apartment and then call the person at the meter's mobile and ask them to look out for any meter that has stopped.

Then, switch something very heavy on e.g. all 4 rings on your cooker and ask the person at the meter bank to look out for a meter that has suddenly started to turn rapidly. (If it's a digital meter, there's a pulsing red LED which will flash more rapidly as power consumption increases)

If one has, then switch off the cooker again and ask the person to note whether the meter has stopped.

You should be able to figure out which meter is which this way.

Ring ESB Networks and ask them to verify that the serial number on the meter that you have identified is the same meter that they have registered on your account.

2) Visually inspect the wires entering the bottom of your meter. There should only be 4 ... i.e. Live and Neutral in and Out. If there are any extra wires or splices alert ESB Networks immediately as it's theft of power and possibly a serious fire hazard. Do not touch or poke around at these wires as contact with the supply is potentially lethal.

The best way of inspecting these is with a bright torch and just visually count the wires without touching anything.

If you see anything suspicious, take a photograph of it. You could even post it up here if you have any queries.

3) Call your landlord and explain the situation and explain that you need an electrician out a.s.a.p. to resolve the issue. It's ultimately his/her responsibility to maintain the wiring so he/she needs to do something about it a.s.a.p. If you don't get cooperation, I would suggest mentioning that you intend to hold them liable for the bill.

Contact the http://www.prtb.ie/

and http://www.threshold.ie/ for further advice.

Thanks a lot.

1) It's actually a house, and there's only the one meter visible. Also, a did a quick check and changes to our electricity use appear to affect how fast it turns - even at 7:00 on a Saturday morning - so it seems to be ours.

2) I had a quick look there. There are four wires coming out of it, though two seem to feed into another box to the left. That's attached to the wall, and there are a few wires coming out of it - without poking about too much, it looks kind of 'official' so I pegged it as something ESB-related. The other two go into the wall, but behind a wooden board. I wasn't going to touch it, but it does look rather puzzling. (the business is on the side of the house that the wires feed into.

3) We've just discovered that my father in law is still technically qualified as an electrician - his dad, who also worked as an electrician, is still alive too. He's talking about going out to get a better look at the wires. We might go down this route first because, as I mentioned, if they're stealing our electricity the landlord is at least partly complicit - therefore, I'd like to know/prove as much as possible before they know what's happening.

I'm curious about the legalities of this - surely stealing electricity is a criminal offence, right?

Solair

The other device on the board that you are describing is probably the ESB's service fuse. This is basically just a very large fuse that prevents you from overloading the supply line in the event of some kind of catastrophic failure of your own fuses/breakers e.g. in a house fire. It also enables ESB Networks to disconnect your supply.

This device is sealed by ESB and it's their property. So, basically anything on the meter board should not be touched at all by the end user.

Your installation will be something like this :

====supply line====>[Service Fuse]>====[Meter] XXXXX >====[Main Switch]====[Main Fuse]=>===[RCD]>====[Individual circuit breakers/fuses for final circuits in your apartment]

XXXXX = End of ESB's equipment and start of the consumer's equipment.

It is most definitely a criminal offense to steal electricity.

Electric Ireland: Pat

Hi Geeky,
There are a couple of issues we would need to clarify, and obviously we are ESBCS and not networks. I think firstly if you could pm me your account details and a contact number I will check up on meter numbers etc for you

Regards
Pat

geeky

Thank you pat - PM sent.

Cadoche

As a concern, can someone in a flat connect to your meter without your knowledge??? I'm asking this cos a friend of mine is always out working and rarely home but her bills are quite high. She was very concerned and ESB CS she rang was unhelpful. Can you shed a light on this pls?

Electric Ireland: David

Cadoche wrote:

As a concern, can someone in a flat connect to your meter without your knowledge??? I'm asking this cos a friend of mine is always out working and rarely home but her bills are quite high. She was very concerned and ESB CS she rang was unhelpful. Can you shed a light on this pls?

Hi Cadoche,

Generally, when a customer's bills are significantly higher than anticipated, this is usually down to certain appliances being left on. The biggest users of electricity in any household are washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers, immersions, cookers and plug-in heaters. For advice on how to reduce your general usage, please click here.


Other useful information on energy advice would include the following:

• Try to use showers instead of baths to reduce the hot water consumption by up to half.
• Insulate your attic to a recommended thickness of 300 mm as this can reduce your heat loss by up to one third.
• Use CFL bulbs they can use 80% less electricity and can last up to 15 times longer than ordinary bulbs.
• Switch off TV's, DVD's, Hifi's etc when not is use. Do not leave them on standby mode.
• Don't fill the kettle every time you use it , just boil enough water for your needs.

If someone were tapping into your power supply illegally, this would be immediately apparent to any electrician inspecting your installation. However, this is extremely unlikely. Something you can do yourself to put your mind at ease in this regard would be to turn off all your power (from the main trip switch on the fuse board) for about 15 minutes. When you then check your meter the rotating disc should by then have come to a standstill (if it is a digital meter, the read light will stop flashing).

If you feel there is still a problem and a large proportion of your usage is unaccounted for, it would be advisable to have an independent electrician check your installation.

I hope this information helps.

Thanks,

David.

dixiefly

What was the outcome in the OP's case?

Electric Ireland: David

dixiefly wrote: »

What was the outcome in the OP's case?

Hi dixiefly,

Due to data protection I can't discuss any specific account details, but I can assure you that the matter was investigated in line with standard procedure.

If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks,

David.