School evacuated after boy picks up pipe bomb

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

I'm still waiting on that apology.

Keep waiting you loyalist scumbag

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Keep waiting you loyalist scumbag

Dear god.

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

Dear god.

Congratulations, you seemingly won.

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You can think of him in any way you want, I will do the same.

That man is a hero, a stalwart of republicanism, right up there with Wolfe Tone and the like.

So you do think it's ok to murder adults then? Or, more precisely, you idolise men who facilitated said murders?

Liam Byrne

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Lets put this to bed once and for all. Has anyone on this site ever supported the dissidents (one of which we assume did the Omagh bombing as it was unclaimed) or is this a complete strawman argument?

Well plenty of people have softened it on the basis that the bomb wasn't left where it was supposed to be left, or that those nasty Brits were at fault because they didn't act on the warning, etc, etc.....

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Congratulations, you seemingly won.

What other kind of reaction was I supposed to give? He's called me a paedophile and a loyalist scumbag.

OhNoYouDidn't

Einhard wrote: »

So you do think it's ok to murder adults then? Or, more precisely, you idolise men who facilitated said murders?

How about adults that bomb schools?

Wolfe Tone

Einhard wrote: »

So you do think it's ok to murder adults then? Or, more precisely, you idolise men who facilitated said murders?

Entirely depends on the circumstances doesn't it?

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

What other kind of reaction was I supposed to give? He's called me a paedophile and a loyalist scumbag.

You were looking for that reaction mate, don't pretend you were not.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

Dear god.

Come on, you have been fishing for that reaction all day.....

In the calm light of evening, do you want to rearticulate your position without making the ****e of it you did earlier?

Liam Byrne

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Entirely depends on the circumstances doesn't it?

No.

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You were looking for that reaction mate, don't pretend you were not.

No, I really wasn't.

OhNoYouDidn't

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well plenty of people have softened it on the basis that the bomb wasn't left where it was supposed to be left, or that those nasty Brits were at fault because they didn't act on the warning, etc, etc.....

So in fact the exact same thing posters have done here today on behalf of the UFF?

demonspawn

So what was the point of this thread and what was the motive behind pointing fingers at the Unionists? Has anyone stepped forward to claim this bomb was theirs? Isn't that incredibly unusual? Don't paras usually claim responsibility for their actions as not doing so would render the act completely pointless? If Loyalist paramilitaries were behind this, you can be sure they'd step forward. These kinds of people take great pleasure in the chaos they create.

Any idiot can put together a crude pipe bomb, you don't need some kind of specialized paramilitary training. You don't need special access to materials to source the components. Anyone that has something to gain from a renewed conflict could have done this so let's all just stop spouting baseless speculation.

I can only surmise that the only point of this thread was simply to stoke the flames of hatred once again. The OP is doing more to damage to the peace process than any dissident paramilitary group with these baseless accusations. We can all read the news and make up our own minds before even knowing a single thing about this case if that's what people choose to do, as foolish as that may be.

Let's let the PSNI just do their jobs and investigate before we discuss this any further, it would clearly be the sensible thing to do. I don't see this thread as anything more than pro-Republican propaganda to be quite honest.

Wolfe Tone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No.

What about in times of war? Can you think of no circumstances where it is acceptable to kill another?

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Come on, you have been fishing for that reaction all day.....

In the calm light of evening, do you want to rearticulate your position without making the ****e of it you did earlier?

My position is essentially the same. Dissidents want to provoke the troubles again, and if that means dead children, so be it. You can't possibly be so naive as to think that Republicans and Unionists won't shoot and place bombs and not expect to kill children?

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

What other kind of reaction was I supposed to give? He's called me a paedophile and a loyalist scumbag.

You called me a dissident from out of the blue. So I read your posts to be loyalist terror supporting and peadarist in nature.

Two can play at that game etc. But at least when you run to the mods I can back up what I said

Liam Byrne

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What about in times of war? Can you think of no circumstances where it is acceptable to kill another?

Your post mentioned the word "murder", not "kill".

A direct self-defence killing [by a law-abiding citizen who had been minding their own business until a thug decided to impose their will on them] would be acceptable in my view.

But I'm not going to fall into the trap of having to point out that there was no "war" in Northern Ireland, or for that matter in Adare.

And leaving bombs that kill innocent people is wrong. Period. If you want to wage war on an administration or an army, then do that; but as soon as an innocent person is killed then you've lost my support......I don't believe in dismissively reducing people to "collateral damage" and such bull.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You called me a dissident from out of the blue. So I read your posts to be loyalist terror supporting and peadarist in nature.

Two can play at that game etc. But at least when you run to the mods I can back up what I said

This is wearysome. Lets just call a truce. A 'ceasefire' if you will. Our little version of the Good Friday agreement.

Wolfe Tone

demonspawn wrote: »

So what was the point of this thread and what was the motive behind pointing fingers at the Unionists?

The point of the thread was to discuss this attemted attack. The motive was that they most probably did it.

Any idiot can put together a crude pipe bomb, you don't need some kind of specialized paramilitary training. You don't need special access to materials to source the components. Anyone that has something to gain from a renewed conflict could have done this so let's all just stop spouting baseless speculation

.
Its not baseless. Just look at the RUFF recent activities... sectarian attacks in the area.

I can only surmise that the only point of this thread was simply to stoke the flames of hatred once again.

Discussion friend, discission.

The OP is doing more to damage the peace process than any dissident paramilitary group with these baseless accusations.

Wow, great to know I have that much power :rolleyes:
They are not baseless.

I don't see this thread as anything more than pro-Republican propaganda to be quite honest.

lol.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

My position is essentially the same. Dissidents want to provoke the troubles again, and if that means dead children, so be it. You can't possibly be so naive as to think that Republicans and Unionists won't shoot and place bombs and not expect to kill children?

In 40 years of extreme activity, there was never once a deliberate targetting of children.

The idea that dissidents secretly want their communities young slaughtered says more about your ghoulish outlook and desperation to paint them worse than they are than anything else.

Your synopisis has no basis in the real world and to somehow blame the victim is very, very nasty.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

This is wearysome. Lets just call a truce. A 'ceasefire' if you will. Our little version of the Good Friday agreement.

Wolfe Tone

The backbone of the dissidents campaign is to avoid a sectarian one.

Liam Byrne

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

In 40 years of extreme activity, there was never once a deliberate targetting of children.

Not good enough, since there is a caveat of "deliberate" in there.

Were there deliberate actions taken to ensure that children wouldn't be murdered ?

Probably not, considering many were.

If you plant a bomb in a crowded area, whether school or shopping centre or wherever, the results of that bomb are 100% your fault.

No bomb = no deaths.

junder

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The backbone of the dissidents campaign is to avoid a sectarian one.

Now who's being naive

Wolfe Tone

Loyalist attacks have nearly always been sectarian, that is the fact of the matter. Republican attacks, much less so.

demonspawn

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The point of the thread was to discuss this attemted attack. The motive was that they most probably did it.

And you're a member of the PSNI with special access to this case that the rest of us do not have? What right do you have to speculate as to who did this?

Its not baseless. Just look at the RUFF recent activities... sectarian attacks in the area.[/quote

Then let's allow the investigation to conclude before making assumptions. It may have been them, then it may very well have not been them. Anyone could take the opportunity to pin another attack on the Loyalists. You just don't know so there's no reason to sit here and discuss this.

[qoute]
Discussion friend, discission.

Or just drumming up support for your "cause". You sig says a thousand words.

Wow, great to know I have that much power :rolleyes:
They are not baseless.

But you don't know any of the facts of this case. Were the materials used to make this pipe the same or similar to any of the others?

lol.

Great argument.

Wolfe Tone

junder wrote: »

Now who's being naive

It is not being naive at all. It is true. These are a "unite the worker class" type grouping.

OhNoYouDidn't

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not good enough, since there is a caveat of "deliberate" in there.

Were there deliberate actions taken to ensure that children wouldn't be murdered ?

Probably not, considering many were.

If you plant a bomb in a crowded area, whether school or shopping centre or wherever, the results of that bomb are 100% your fault.

No bomb = no deaths.

Who is disputing that? But planing a bomb in a school is an escalation we have not seen before, and all the whataboutery in the world won't change that.

Loyalists have done something Republicans would never have even contemplated

Liam Byrne

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Loyalist attacks have nearly always been sectarian, that is the fact of the matter. Republican attacks, much less so.

What does that mean ? That republicans were less focussed on / worried about who they murdered ?

demonspawn

Anyway, I've reported this thread and requested it be locked until the investigation concludes. I hope the mods will see the benefit of doing this. I'm not going to discuss a case I know absolutely nothing about other than circumstantial evidence and speculation. That doesn't do anyone any good. I'm out.

Einhard

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

How about adults that bomb schools?

I'm sure some people on both sides would justify the murder of innocent children in a manner similar to that wheh they justify the murder of adults.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Entirely depends on the circumstances doesn't it?

No, not really. It's funny that you got all pissy earlier when i insinuated that you supported murderers, yet know here you are equivocating on the matter.

Liam Byrne

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Who is disputing that? But planing a bomb in a school is an escalation we have not seen before, and all the whataboutery in the world won't change that.

Loyalists have done something Republicans would never have even contemplated

As I said earlier, one gang of thugs have done worse than another. I don't differentiate.

Wolfe Tone

demonspawn wrote: »

And you're a member of the PSNI with special access to this case that the rest of us do not have? What right do you have to speculate as to who did this?

It is blindingly obvious who did this, just as it was obvious a few weeks ago that dissidents were behind the attack in lurgan.

Or just drumming up support for your "cause". You sig says a thousand words.

Try as I might, I could not legibly fit in a thousand words into that small space, the one quote will have to suffice. I am a republican yes, but not a dissident one.

But you don't know any of the facts of this case. Were the materials used to make this pipe the same or similar to any of the others?

Facts eh?

Sectarian attack
Catholic school
Bomb alert at another catholic school the same day
The fact that the media make no mention of dissident responsibility(if it were you can be sure we would know)
No warning
Active loyalist group in the area, history of making crap(thank god) pipe bombs

Not hard to figure out who is behind it.

Great argument.

I linked a news story, and made some comments on it in the opening post.

junder

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It is not being naive at all. It is true. These are a "unite the worker class" type grouping.

Sure mate whatever you say. There is a thread on this very site that explains your mentality I believe it was titled 'useful idiots' http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056022775

OhNoYouDidn't

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As I said earlier, one gang of thugs have done worse than another. I don't differentiate.

Which is my point. You should.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

In 40 years of extreme activity, there was never once a deliberate targetting of children.

The idea that dissidents secretly want their communities young slaughtered says more about your ghoulish outlook and desperation to paint them worse than they are than anything else.

Your synopisis has no basis in the real world and to somehow blame the victim is very, very nasty.

How am I blaming the victim? Am I blaming catholic schoolchildren? I'm blaming loyalists, and I'm blaming dissident Republicans for trying to flicker the dying embers of the Troubles back into life.

Say what you want to about me. The fact is that dissident Republicans want these sort of atrocities to emerge, as it gives them carte blanche for atrocities all of their own.

To deny this is to deny the very basis of their 'strategy', if you can call it that. They want the Troubles, repression and reprisals. They want it very much indeed.

If they didn't want the Troubles, repression and reprisals they wouldn't try to resusitate it.

P.S- Truce starts here

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

How am I blaming the victim? Am I blaming catholic schoolchildren? I'm blaming loyalists, and I'm blaming dissident Republicans for trying to flicker the dying embers of the Troubles back into life.

Say what you want to about me. The fact is that dissident Republicans want these sort of atrocities to emerge, as it gives them carte blanche for atrocities all of their own.

To deny this is to deny the very basis of their 'strategy', if you can call it that. They want the Troubles, repression and reprisals. They want it very much indeed.

If they didn't want the Troubles, repression and reprisals they wouldn't try to resusitate it.

P.S- Truce starts here

This doesn't break the terms....

But there is a fatal flaw in your logic. The UFF have been acting like this since before the troubles began. They don't need the dissidents to justify their campaign and would be doing the same if they weren't active.

The dissidents have not targetted the loyalist community, so its moot as to whether they want that flank opened too

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It is not being naive at all. It is true. These are a "unite the worker class" type grouping.

Ah yes, especially if they're Protestant workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

Sometimes you do talk shite Mussolini.

Liam Byrne

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Which is my point. You should.

Why ? Both have done despicable and unacceptable things.

By the way, I'd prefer if you didn't try to tell me what I "should" think.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

This doesn't break the terms....

But there is a fatal flaw in your logic. The UFF have been acting like this since before the troubles began. They don't need the dissidents to justify their campaign and would be doing the same if they weren't active.

The dissidents have not targetted the loyalist community, so its moot as to whether they want that flank opened too

I accept that loyalists haven't exactly 'given up' and their attacks are definately motivated by sectarianism. More so, perhaps than dissident Republicans. Abhorrent as they are, at least they seem to be targeting the security apparatus (Though I don't see how that is anymore nobel)

My point is that if the bomb did go off in the school, with many dead children as a result, it would play exactly into dissident republican hands. It would rightfully anger and dismay the entire province (Unionists included) and could act as a spur for the Troubles to renew. Which is exactly what the dissidents want.

Wolfe Tone

demonspawn wrote: »

Anyway, I've reported this thread and requested it be locked until the investigation concludes. I hope the mods will see the benefit of doing this. I'm not going to discuss a case I know absolutely nothing about other than circumstantial evidence and speculation. That doesn't do anyone any good. I'm out.

Good luck with that.

Wolfe Tone

Einhard wrote: »

Ah yes, especially if they're Protestant workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

Sometimes you do talk shite Mussolini.

I am talking about the dissidents here. They do not want a sectarian campaign at all.

Einhard

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Which is my point. You should.

Along the lines of Nationalist murderers = Good/ Loyalist murderers= Bad?

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

I accept that loyalists haven't exactly 'given up' and their attacks are definately motivated by sectarianism. More so, perhaps than dissident Republicans. Abhorrent as they are, at least they seem to be targeting the security apparatus (Though I don't see how that is anymore nobel)

My point is that if the bomb did go off in the school, with many dead children as a result, it would play exactly into dissident republican hands. It would rightfully anger and dismay the entire province (Unionists included) and could act as a spur for the Troubles to renew. Which is exactly what the dissidents want.

The certainly do not want to achieve that with the deaths of kids. No dissies are rubbing their hands with glee and anticipation of a bomb going off in a scool resulting in dead kids.

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The certainly do not want to achieve that with the deaths of kids. No dissies are rubbing their hands with glee and anticipation of a bomb going off in a scool resulting in dead kids.

Really? Most of them don't have a moral center and are sociopaths. They certainly don't have much intelligence, emotional or otherwise.

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

Really? Most of them don't have a moral center and are sociopaths. They certainly don't have much intelligence, emotional or otherwise.

Yes really.
The dissident supporters I know where actually really angry with the lurgan incident.
What does the comment about their intelligence achieve?

Personally I feel it is a big mistake to write them off as loons or psychos.

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yes really.
The dissident supporters I know where actually really angry with the lurgan incident.
What does the comment about their intelligence achieve?

Maybe I'm just jaded. I had a bit of a run in with a local thug in my home town on friday night. He's a prominent local Republican. And he is a big ignorant bogman. Maybe my judgement has been compromised.

Anyway. I mean it this time. I'm outta this thread.

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

Maybe I'm just jaded. I had a bit of a run in with a local thug in my home town on friday night. He's a prominent local Republican. And he is a big ignorant bogman. Maybe my judgement has been compromised.

Anyway. I mean it this time. I'm outta this thread.

Sorry to hear that Denerick. Perhaps it has... every political movement has its undesirables. It is that type of grassroots thing which is damaging. Although I must say SF Councillors etc are excellent. Something they have concentrated on.

junder

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am talking about the dissidents here. They do not want a sectarian campaign at all.

So explain to me what the dissidents were doing when in the two weeks on the run up to the 12th they were using local gangs of hoods such as the iba, to raid over into neighbouring loyalist areas. This happened on a nightly basis and I witnessed itfor myself. Explain to me why kids frommy own area were saying that petrol bombs were directly at them. Is this how dissidents 'unite the working class' fact Is denerick is right, it was the same during the troubles and it's the same now, without the oxygen of sectarianism, these groups be they the cira / rira or the ruff can't exist. Each time thier community is attacke, their so called defenders can feel justified in going out and attacking the other community. It is s perverse symbiotic relationship