Koran burning in Florida

Dades

Hobbes wrote: »

[edit] appears there is also another pastor doing it.

Phelps must be jumping on the bandwagon then because he wasn't the original twat. :pac:

dvpower

House wrote: »

Rather than play pin the tail on the ignorant born again Christian, perhaps there is a deeper question to be considered. If so many fundamentalist Muslims cannot help but butcher/threaten everyone they see after hearing about some wizened old fraud in Florida burning books on metaphysical nonsense, then we should perhaps begin to question the sanity of condemning the old man instead of the murderously intolerant lunatics he is setting out to upset.

Not really a deeper question. We all know that there are murderously intolerant lunatics that would welcome the book burning because it would give them a pretext to whip up the crowd. We hardly need to condemn them; they are after all murderously intolerant lunatics.

We hardly need to condemn the Florida pastor either. Its clear that he is an intolerant lunatic who can foresee potentially many murders following on from the book burning.

Anyway, it seems that the burning is off, for now.

An obscure US Christian pastor has called off his plan to burn copies of the Koran this weekend, saying he had obtained a deal that involved moving the planned location of an Islamic cultural centre and mosque in New York

I'd be surprised if there actually was a deal on the cultural centre. Probably just a delaying tactic but a pretty big concession if it turns out to be for real.

mikhail

Dades wrote: »

Phelps must be jumping on the bandwagon then because he wasn't the original twat. :pac:

Actually, it seems he was. Source:

...in 2008 [Shirley Phelps-Roper] and her father's Topeka flock set fire to a Quran in plain view on a Washington, D.C., street and nobody seemed to care.

"We did it a long time before this guy," Phelps-Roper said by telephone from a street corner in downtown Chicago, scene of the latest Westboro picket — against Jews this time, not gays.

Ush1

Dades wrote: »

Phelps must be jumping on the bandwagon then because he wasn't the original twat. :pac:

Battle of the anti Islamists!

"Danish cartoons ain't got sh*t on me!"

recedite

D.R cowboy wrote: »

I was just chatting the old man there , and he is bringing a couple of his mates over to burn the Koran like the old days, he said he is having a barbecue too.... He is even trying to get RTE up here too.

If he can prove he was burning Korans before both Phelps and the Florida pastor man, we might have our very own Irish celeb book-burner

sink

mikhail wrote: »

Actually, it seems he was. Source:

I'd say it's a case of the boy who cried wolf. Phelps has condemned so many things at this stage that nobody really pays any attention to what he says or does anymore.

PDN

Of course this whole sorry mess would be avoided if the US had a blasphemy law.

jill_valentine

You stirrer.

Zillah

PDN wrote: »

Of course this whole sorry mess would be avoided if the US had a blasphemy law.

Why do you hate freedom?

PDN

Zillah wrote: »

Why do you hate freedom?

Why do you eat babies?

recedite

PDN wrote: »

Why do you eat babies?

Tis the way of the heretic.

fisgon

It all reminds me of a line from Will and Grace (something else that would no doubt make said pastor have an embolism). Karen is invited to some event or other but ducks out. "I can't go honey," she says, "I've got my christian book group. Tonight we're burning Catcher in the Rye."

herbiemcc

I think Pastor Jones is a bit of an idiot/nutjob. But then again you'd need to be to pronounce anything remotely controversial about Islam these days.

It seems to be that case that to be heard at all above the media melee you have threaten to do something quite crass yet if you do that you'll never be credible to the vast majority.

I think it could be true that the muslim religion could do with a 'pope type' figurehead. Someone to bring about a bit of order / coherence / control to the muslim religion. Most muslims would condemn terrorist actions but it doesn't get noticed - that isn't juicy enough. There is no one with muslim authority to say to extremists this is too much. People like Jones are trying to get this point across but of course it will be twisted and misused by terrorists.

It seems like Obama is free to say "This isn't what America is about etc This is not a Christian act etc but he should add "Anybody who threatens violence over this issue is completely wrong" but maybe that would confuse his message and create a debate he doesn't want.

I heard Jones say he wouldn't like it if someone burnt a bible but he wouldn't threaten to kill them. I think that's a fair and valid point but his background still lets him down as a bit of a typical religious nut. i.e. I agree with a few of his points but would be embarassed to see him in a sensible debate.

Religion is a strange thing (big news on the atheist forum). Someone (not Jones btw) can make so much sense, be so smart, say all the right things. Yet as soon as they say they are praying to God for guidance/active consultation all I see is a gibbering lunatic.

That's totally unfair/irrational of me I know but it's getting worse all the time! If I see a minister or priest now on the street, or even people going into church I can't help but think why/how/what? Are you people serious?

Sorry, slight deviation there. Does that make me a deviant ?!?!

Dave!

FYI some douchebag did some burning in the middle of the city

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OClIeQtMaoU

Hopefully it won't end up on Fox, etc.

And also hopefully some nutjob fanatic doesn't end up murdering this guy

But hopefully he stubs his toe on his coffee table

robindch

herbiemcc wrote: »

I think it could be true that the muslim religion could do with a 'pope type' figurehead. Someone to bring about a bit of order / coherence / control to the muslim religion. Most muslims would condemn terrorist actions but it doesn't get noticed - that isn't juicy enough. There is no one with muslim authority to say to extremists this is too much.

That's not quite true.

Like christianity, islam has two main branches that view each other with some distate and which divide principally along their respective understandings of religious authority. Sunni islam is by far the larger of the two and roughly analogous to protestantism in its effective assertion that the religious texts can be interpreted by any suitably qualified individual -- ie, religious authority derives from consensus, approximating democracy. Shia islam, on the other hand, is smaller and asserts that certain individuals, believed to be direct descendants of Mohammad, can interpret the texts more reliably than others -- ie, religious authority derives from position, approximating authoritarianism.

Consequently, while there don't really exist islamic "popes" in sunni islam, there are individuals with special authority in shia islam who fulfil a role approximately similar to bishops.

Unfortunately, shia islam is the principal national religion only (I believe) in Iran, and it's going to be a cold day in Shiraz before the Iranian mullahs stand up and tell people to go easy on The Great Satan.

robindch

Dave! wrote: »

some douchebag did some burning in the middle of the city

And some Afghanis ended up dead:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/two-killed-in-koran-burning-protest-2334916.html

This is all so sadly predictable.

Zillah

robindch wrote: »

And some Afghanis ended up dead:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/two-killed-in-koran-burning-protest-2334916.html

This is all so sadly predictable.

Ahaha what the hell: "the deaths and injuries occurred when Afghan soldiers opened fire on hundreds of protesters who were trying to storm the local government headquarters".

Afghan 1: Those damn Americans are planning to burn a koran!
Afghan 2: That is unacceptable!
Afghan 3: We must protest!
Afghan 2: Yes, we will take to the streets and display our disapproval.
Afghan 3: Yes!
Afghan 1: And then we'll storm the local government headquarters!
Afghan 2: Ye...wait what?

AudreyHepburn

To be honest I think this whole thing is complete madness.

For one thing that Mosque isn't going to be on Ground Zero or even on that street, it's a couple of blocks away!

Second I think that inciting hatred and causing the kind of trouble this is likely to cause is the height of disrespect to the families of those killed that day. I have no doubt the last thing they'll want is some fanatic burning books and generally trying to cause trouble. It must be hard enough for them without this kind of crap.

Third after everything that's happened and considering the current war the last thing anyone should be doing is inciting hatred and violence because unfortunatly there are extremists out there who might take it as an excuse to launch more attacks, maybe not on the scale of 9/11 though.

PDN

Dave! wrote: »

And also hopefully some nutjob fanatic doesn't end up murdering this guy

But hopefully he stubs his toe on his coffee table

Nobody will end up murdering this guy. He will continue to live his comfortable life in the US and meanwhile vulnerable minorities, such as Christians in the Middle East, will bear the brunt of the Muslims' anger.