Irish MMA over the next few years!!

John Ferguson

Hey Guys,

Over the last couple of months I've been asked a shed load of time where I see Irish MMA progressing to over the next few years. As most are aware I am only in the game about a year, so this hardly makes me an authority on the subject. I usually give the answer "It will continue to grow etc etc".

Perhaps I would be better placed to answer these questions if I get some feed back from you guys with the knowledge and experience?

So here we go, "Where do you see Irish MMA progressing to over the next 2 -3 year"? ...............Discuss

cowzerp

If we continue to get overloaded with shows then i see it getting worse and the overall standard of shows will drop and fans will get put off, its getting harder to get fighters and shows will struggle to put decent cards together, the blame lies on people trying to run too many shows and there not thinking of the long term health of Irish MMA, i originally planned to do a show every 3 months but now think every 5-6 months make more sense as i don't want to be part of the congestion.

Jason McCabe

I suppose for standards to improve it will take time. The money needs to go in at the grass roots for coaches to be able to improve their abilities and for fighters to be able to spend more time training and less time working.

The growth of MMA will mean that as more people become aware and involved that there should be a porgression. It will eneveitably be the young 13/14 year olds who are now putting in the hard work in the clubs that will be flying the flag in a few years.

We got to work hard to make sure they are getting the right coaching and brought through in a careful way that will encourage to remain involved in the sport.

I still think that some people are too insular in their thinking. I commend people like Davy P who are more than happy to share their knowledge even with potential rival clubs.

For the standard as a whole to improve we have to work toegther.

Adios.

John Ferguson

cowzerp wrote: »

If we continue to get overloaded with shows then i see it getting worse and the overall standard of shows will drop and fans will get put off, its getting harder to get fighters and shows will struggle to put decent cards together, the blame lies on people trying to run too many shows and there not thinking of the long term health of Irish MMA, i originally planned to do a show every 3 months but now think every 5-6 months make more sense as i don't want to be part of the congestion.

This is part of the reason i have started doing events in the UK. My plan for Cage Contender in 2011 was to have 8 events in Ireland and 4 in the UK. But i now dont think that it would work, The market and fighter pool is just not big enough at this time. I am most likely gonna do 3 in Belfast, 2 in Dublin and 2 maybe 3 in the UK (These dates i hope to have booked and announced before CC7 in November). I must admit i found it much harder matchmaking in the UK than I did on our own green and pleasent shores. I found the Irish MMA guys much more professional to deal with (and in that i include Fighters, Coaches,Medics and many others)

SDTimeout

I think fighters will start to sign or unofficially just stick to fighting on certain promotions. Which i think is a good idea, but then again you see some people try get into the game and are looking for fighters from everywhere.

I think the bigger fighters will sign which is good, however i also think it's good that certain shows are sticking to local fighters. Gym vs Gym as seen soon in Dundalk with one or two SBG fighters willing to help out another Gym get their name out there.

John Ferguson

SDTimeout wrote: »

I think fighters will start to sign or unofficially just stick to fighting on certain promotions.

Marty Walker (Jnr) mentioned this subject to me on facebook a few days ago. Personally I don't think signing fighters would work, It would work if the contract was worth £000s but there simply isn't the money in Irish MMA at the minute to warrant that. Fighters (Pro) need to be free to earn a living from as many places as possible. Although i do reckon that fighters and coaches will choose to fight on the shows that they feel will be of most benifit to them (that could be driven by money, who gives us fighters for our show, media exposure and no doubt many other factors)

SDTimeout

I should have clarified i do mean an unofficial agreement. You have the gung ho guys who want to hop from card to card and fight alot. Take Pendred at the moment i believe he is out in the US preparing for CC7 ? That will benefit him in the long term exposure, quality of opponent, being a respected irish champion, becoming a better fighter.

I well believe as i do the same ethos with football. Training with a better club is better than playing alot with a crap one. EG Wilshere / Arsenal / Bolton.

I just don't want to go to events and be disappointed. I'm going to one in the next month that i KNOW is going to be majority C Class because it's a show for guys getting started out. These are the fights i want to go see because there going to be how i get into it in the next two years.

EnjoyChoke

cowzerp wrote: »

If we continue to get overloaded with shows then i see it getting worse and the overall standard of shows will drop and fans will get put off, its getting harder to get fighters and shows will struggle to put decent cards together, the blame lies on people trying to run too many shows and there not thinking of the long term health of Irish MMA, i originally planned to do a show every 3 months but now think every 5-6 months make more sense as i don't want to be part of the congestion.

Good shows will survive, poor shows will not. Fighters want to fight on well organised events and people will want their moneys worth.
The market will find it own equilibrium, as it does in every other area.
Good gyms will survive, poor ones will not.
Our top coaches are getting better and the pool of quality fighters is growing.
Within 3 years we will start to see some high profile breakouts into the big shows.

SBG Ireland

the number of mma gyms opening and been run by guys with little to no background in any of the combat sports to increase

also the number of shows been run by people with no experience in mma to increase

...then it will ease off...and start declining in a year or so. we're reaching the peak

already shows are struggling to fill cards

personally what i would like to see happen (and its why i suggested the new C Class rules) is that you would have a small number of 'Promotions' such as

cage contender
clan wars
(dont know any others?)

these run with complete Pro A/B rule sets cards tickets starting around the 25 mark. good pay day/ticket deals for the guys as lot of them will be training full time at this stage. fans know they will be looking at the best fighters in the country, in shape and will see a 'show'...dancing bears, cool lights etc

and then a few 'grass roots' shows like

tribal warfare
tuff nuts
rush
strabane
...and the other 50 of them out there lol

basic set up of a cage in a hall. C Class rules (new rules still makes it exciting for the fans and give the fighter a realistic stepping stone) and D class...maybe teens aswell. tickets 10-15e....again fans probably going to see a mate...dont need all the trimmings and they wont be put off by lads squeezing each others heads and getting tired after a round.

2 very different nights....shows putting on raw beginners fighting mma league style rules...then charging the same price as tickets to a cage contender style 'promotion' is gonna turn a lot of people off.

6-10 promotion style shows around the country and 15-20 'grassroots' spread around the country is probably just about sustainable

...but its not really a problem...economic theory will force it to go this way anyway...

Barry.Oglesby

SBG Ireland wrote: »

the number of mma gyms opening and been run by guys with little to no background in any of the combat sports to increase

also the number of shows been run by people with no experience in mma to increase

...then it will ease off...and start declining in a year or so. we're reaching the peak

Tell me about it. We've a place opening up down the road from us, a "fight club" :rolleyes:. I'm a big believer that water finds it's own level though and hopefully no one with any sense will be duped by the likes of that.

basic set up of a cage in a hall. C Class rules (new rules still makes it exciting for the fans and give the fighter a realistic stepping stone) and D class...maybe teens aswell. tickets 10-15e....again fans probably going to see a mate...dont need all the trimmings and they wont be put off by lads squeezing each others heads and getting tired after a round.

I doubt anyone disagrees with you there, but I would question the economics of putting them on for a tenner . For me, €25 is about right for a "new" C class promotion with some pro fights on board too.

6-10 promotion style shows around the country and 15-20 'grassroots' spread around the country is probably just about sustainable

Agreed. It seems about right and might be even a little heavy. I would say 4-6 "big" shows every year would be perfect, but have them as real shows, real events like CC Belfast or Dublin.

...but its not really a problem...economic theory will force it to go this way anyway...

Well I think it will, but the problem is that there may be damage done to the reputation of the sport in Ireland before that happens. I hope not of course but there are some... ahem... disreputable types looking to get on board the bandwagon.

SBG Ireland

you think it would be pretty simple....new guy wants to join a gym....so which gym consistently performs well at competitions? ok i'll join that one.....but some gyms can write up a draw at the mma league like they just won the cage contender title so not that straight forward.

it'll get worse before it gets better...

SDTimeout

Then surely prices should be lowered so they can go to events themselves and see how different clubs are doing depending on their tastes ? I know already what club i want to be training at when i move up to Dublin for college. That's from following results of established shows.

bjj-fighter

SDTimeout wrote: »

Then surely prices should be lowered so they can go to events themselves and see how different clubs are doing depending on their tastes ? I know already what club i want to be training at when i move up to Dublin for college. That's from following results of established shows.

Which Gym?

EnjoyChoke

I think it's up to the big Gyms to shout louder.
If a new club is moving in on your turf, making a lot of noise, with little to no experience, make it clear through all available means the differences between your Gym and theirs.
As in any market peoples choices will be guided by "product" (how good the gym, instructors, fighters and results are etc.) and "marketing" (advertising, online noise etc.)
If you have a better product you need to let people know.

GlennGeo

MMA is taking over the Martial Art world cause people want to just beat each other up ect...

I was a practitioner in Shotokan Karate and we barley fought each other..

I reckon in another couple of years there wont be any Shotokan or Tae Kwon Do classes as everyone will be done MMA

cowzerp

GlennGeo wrote: »

MMA is taking over the Martial Art world cause people want to just beat each other up ect...

I was a practitioner in Shotokan Karate and we barley fought each other..

I reckon in another couple of years there wont be any Shotokan or Tae Kwon Do classes as everyone will be done MMA

MMA is not about "just beating people up" its very technical and disciplined and not for everyone-people will always want to do sports such as TKD, Shotakan, Judo, I think Ballet sucks, but people still do it and love it and thats the same for everything in life.. Most martial artists actually dont want to beat anyone up and just want belts imo anyway.

Jason McCabe

With regards gyms. Some people will shop in pound stretcher and some will go to Harrods.

Thats the way it is. It probably will depend on what the gym charges and what people can afford.

Some people do not see the benefit in paying for quality others do.

GlennGeo

A Shotokan or TKD tournament consists of scoring points not Knocking the other guy out or beating him to a pulp. I dont have a problem with MMA its different to other styles, but im just saying

weemate

Jason McCabe wrote: »

With regards gyms. Some people will shop in pound stretcher and some will go to Harrods.

Thats the way it is. It probably will depend on what the gym charges and what people can afford.

Some people do not see the benefit in paying for quality others do.

Paying a lot of money will not exactly guarantee that you get great quality instruction.

Jason McCabe

This is true too I suppose Peter but you know what I am saying.

If a new club opens in dublin and is competing with the like of SBG, Ryano, Kokoro, IP, Rush, Next Gen etc... The only way I can see them competing is charging less.

Tim_Murphy

GlennGeo wrote: »

MMA is taking over the Martial Art world cause people want to just beat each other up ect...

I was a practitioner in Shotokan Karate and we barley fought each other..

I reckon in another couple of years there wont be any Shotokan or Tae Kwon Do classes as everyone will be done MMA

No doubt having even a basic knowledge of MMA from watching it on TV will make many skeptical of a lot of the claims and training methods in arts such as TKD or Shotokan. This is a good thing, 'traditional' instructors adopting some of this skepticism in what they do would be an even better thing. The best (and funniest!) example of this I know of is a Shotokan instructor telling his students not to block a low kick in the normal Muay Thai way but instead to turn their leg away and absorb the kick into the back of the leg. :eek: This is how out of touch with reality some martial arts people are.

That said, thousands of people in Ireland alone train TKD and I'm sure Karate has big numbers too, I wouldn't get too worried about MMA taking over just yet.

Tim_Murphy

Jason McCabe wrote: »

This is true too I suppose Peter but you know what I am saying.

If a new club opens in dublin and is competing with the like of SBG, Ryano, Kokoro, IP, Rush, Next Gen etc... The only way I can see them competing is charging less.

Not at all, open a club, advertise well, sell cool tshirts, make them feel like they are budding Cage Fighters but don't make the training too hard. My bet is that sells at least as well as a proper gym anything of the week.

mmaireland.com

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

...make them feel like they are budding Cage Fighters but don't make the training too hard....

Spot on! I was thinking about Barry's earlier post too. If people want to join "Fight Club" and are attracted to a place that advertises itself as such, they really wouldn't like it at my place any way. We're not looking for that sort of person. Barry's very cerebral about what his does too, so I'm sure he'll lose no-body that he wouldn't want to "lose" anyway.

Barry.Oglesby

mmaireland.com wrote: »

Spot on! I was thinking about Barry's earlier post too. If people want to join "Fight Club" and are attracted to a place that advertises itself as such, they really wouldn't like it at my place any way. We're not looking for that sort of person. Barry's very cerebral about what his does too, so I'm sure he'll lose no-body that he wouldn't want to "lose" anyway.

I use Cerebro.

I'm not too bothered alright. I reckon these lads will hoover up the wannabee toughmen and the people genuinely interested in learning a sport and maybe competing will make their way down the road. In fact it could be a good filter . I suppose what I'm really worried about is guilt by association should someone be hurt.

mmaireland.com

Yeah. Guilt by association bothers me too. But, for as long as promotions continue to advertise, "Cage Warfare, Xtreme Fighting, Extreme Nanobot Killer Invaders" but preach, "we're athletes, we're professionals", the wannabees will continue to knock on our doors. Be grateful for the filter for now buddy!

EnjoyChoke

mmaireland.com wrote: »

Spot on! I was thinking about Barry's earlier post too. If people want to join "Fight Club" and are attracted to a place that advertises itself as such, they really wouldn't like it at my place any way. We're not looking for that sort of person. Barry's very cerebral about what his does too, so I'm sure he'll lose no-body that he wouldn't want to "lose" anyway.

Don't agree. They are probably exactly the type of people you want, young athletic types who want to fight.
Tim makes a great point:

open a club, advertise well, sell cool tshirts, make them feel like they are budding Cage Fighters but don't make the training too hard

This is exactly what's happening and people join up out of confusion.
The established gyms, with good pedigree, could be doing this even better. They already cater for the casual participant and have a lot more to offer them. This isn't always communicated effectively to the general public though.