'Fox Problem' in apartment development

Wolfe Tone

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

If the baby was in the garden it could (very very small probability) get salmonella/E-coli from faeces of these creatures. The faeces could also be carried on clothing, shoes and hands onto the baby.

Bird flu!

wetdogsmell

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

If the baby was in the garden it could (very very small probability) get salmonella/E-coli from faeces of these creatures. The faeces could also be carried on clothing, shoes and hands onto the baby.

the term grasping at straws springs to mind, i should have been more clear , how many of the birds you mentioned could cause severe injurys to two babys sleeping in there bedroom?

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I know plenty that have no problems with foxes. Suckers farmers or Dairy farmers for example.

i said i am yet to meet a farmer that is happy to see them, i don't know every farmer nor do i think i can speak for farmers

Graces7

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i don't think everyone in london loves foxes as much as you seem to think , as the have a many pest control companys making a good living from killing foxes,,

i do alot of fox hunting myself and am yet to meet a farmer that is happy to see them about,

For this common sense and in your other posts, thank you.

Fanaticism is an interesting phenomenon of course; robs of reason and balance, as we are seeing here

Feargal as Luimneach

Graces7 wrote: »

For this common sense and in your other posts, thank you.

Fanaticism is an interesting phenomenon of course; robs of reason and balance, as we are seeing here

"Fanaticism is an interesting phenomenon of course; robs of reason and balance, as we are seeing here"
Speak for yourself.
An incident where babies were bitten leads you to think urban foxes should be killed for that reason. An isolated incident!
As I said your children Are more at threat from domestic pets! Fact!

hatful

If a fox has mange should you report it? I'm only asking out of concern for the poor creature, from what I've read it's a particularly nasty way to die.

Cavehill Red

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Its a fox. I have a bird feeder, do I need to inform people of that?

Depends. Are you feeding vultures, perchance?

Wolfe Tone

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Depends. Are you feeding vultures, perchance?

Lol! I have seen a few magpies.

Cavehill Red

I think if I was living in a community, I would want to know if one of my neighbours was attracting foxes into the place with food.
I think I'd want to know even more if I had small children.
And I think the management company would likely take a dim view of it, and indeed may find something in the lease agreement to prevent it from occurring.
Those are the reasons I think the OP hasn't told his neighbours. He is well aware that not only would many of them be annoyed and outraged, but also the management company (or a neighbour with a lawsuit) would put a quick stop to his activities.
If he's so proud of looking after foxes then he should do so somewhere where he is permitted to do so and it is welcome by everyone else affected, and do it openly, not sneakily in a shared environment.
The same concerns really don't apply to magpies eating from a birdfeeder.

Wolfe Tone

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I think if I was living in a community, I would want to know if one of my neighbours was attracting foxes into the place with food.
I think I'd want to know even more if I had small children.
And I think the management company would likely take a dim view of it, and indeed may find something in the lease agreement to prevent it from occurring.
Those are the reasons I think the OP hasn't told his neighbours. He is well aware that not only would many of them be annoyed and outraged, but also the management company (or a neighbour with a lawsuit) would put a quick stop to his activities.
If he's so proud of looking after foxes then he should do so somewhere where he is permitted to do so and it is welcome by everyone else affected, and do it openly, not sneakily in a shared environment.
The same concerns really don't apply to magpies eating from a birdfeeder.

Have you ever had any dealings with foxes? They will NEVER attack someone unless you somehow corner them(unlikely) they run a mile as soon as they see you.

Although OP nothing wrong with feeding them, but dont let them get familiar with you, just leave the food somewhere.

Cavehill Red

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Have you ever had any dealings with foxes? They will NEVER attack someone unless you somehow corner them(unlikely) they run a mile as soon as they see you.

Although OP nothing wrong with feeding them, but dont let them get familiar with you, just leave the food somewhere.

Didn't address my point at all.
It's not up to the OP to unilaterally decide to attract foxes into a shared development.

Wolfe Tone

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Didn't address my point at all.
It's not up to the OP to unilaterally decide to attract foxes into a shared development.

The foxes would scrounge there regardless.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

I had a conversation today with the NPWS. They are not aware of any law that prevents the relocation of foxes. However they are going to investigate further & report back. The point was made that if it were illegal to release vermin then that would have to include the pigeon with the repaired wing etc. Anyway if we don't repair & release you lads will be denied the pleasure that you derive from killing them.

They suspect & so do I, that all one needs is the permission of the land owner where the release would take place. We agreed that, with increasing urban foxes & new development, a legal definition should be applied.

If there are specific laws relating to vermin then I would again ask that people post links as neither the NPWS or I are aware of them.

As to attracting vermin could someone show me the legislation that defines vermin. Feeding birds on a bird table attracts rats & mice so does keeping a rabbit or hens etc. Maybe we should have vermin police ?. Heathrow Airport welcomed fox releases because ..... they keep down vermin such as rats & rabbits !

I too was in contact with the NPWS and as they are unsure themselves. I have been given another contact detail by them to follow up on.
It is nice to have a good debate about these things till it turns to childish and petty name calling and sweeping references in general which is a pity. I guess there are some who cannot get their point across without having to resort to such childish behaviour :rolleyes:.

Cavehill Red

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The foxes would scrounge there regardless.

They'd do so a lot more if they were being fed.
And you still haven't addressed my point. Nor has the OP. No surprise there.

Wolfe Tone

Cavehill Red wrote: »

They'd do so a lot more if they were being fed.
And you still haven't addressed my point. Nor has the OP. No surprise there.

Your point being he should tell everyone?

Cavehill Red

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Your point being he should tell everyone?

Yes. It's a shared living space and this affects all the residents, and possibly the terms of his lease too.

Wolfe Tone

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yes. It's a shared living space and this affects all the residents, and possibly the terms of his lease too.

No, he doesn't have to tell them. I certainly wouldn't. Would you tell your neighbors that you are feeding stray cats?

Cavehill Red

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

No, he doesn't have to tell them. I certainly wouldn't. Would you tell your neighbors that you are feeding stray cats?

I don't live in an apartment and I don't feed stray anything.

Discodog

Graces7 wrote: »

For this common sense and in your other posts, thank you.

Fanaticism is an interesting phenomenon of course; robs of reason and balance, as we are seeing here

It may be common sense to you but animal lovers would consider the unnecessary shooting of a wild animal to be cruel.

Fanaticism can work in either direction. There will always be those who adopt the view that animals are here to be killed at the will of man. These fanatics are happy to let Ireland remain the bottom of the animal welfare league.

We will always have people that get pleasure from killing an animal. I just never imagined that you, as someone who has made countless compassionate posts, would be one of their supporters.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

These fanatics

:rolleyes: more of the tabloid type hysteria, Can you not discuss anything with out having to go down that road, perhaps I should refer to all fanatical animal lovers such as yourself as a terrorist seeing as there are those opposed to killing animals who have no problems planting bombs in buildings?
As i have said in previous posts its a shame cos you always put a good debate across till you loose the run of yourself.

Graces is entitled to her opinion and at times I would disagree with her completely but the woman is willing to read posts without tunnel vision, and now because she posts something you disagree with she is suddenly a hunting supporter. Life for you must be very one sided, either agree with you or you throw a hissy fit:rolleyes:

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

:rolleyes: more of the tabloid type hysteria Life for you must be very one sided, either agree with you or you throw a hissy fit:rolleyes:

There is nothing hysterical or tabloid about animal welfare in Ireland. I & many others, would love it if the tabloids focussed on Ireland needlessly killing of thousands of dogs.

The hysterical tabloid element are the ones who paint foxes as animals that attack.

I fully accept that you have the legal right to shoot, trap, & to a point poison foxes. I used to work with farmers a great deal. We relied on farmers for release sites for all manner of wildlife. I have also worked with trained marksman - yes sometimes shooting an animal is necessary but it is never a pleasure.

With foxes it is a different story. Shooting a fox is pointless. You know how quickly a new fox will take up the vacated territory. If the OP's foxes are trapped & killed - I agree with you that they won't be relocated, then more foxes will come.

Anyone involved in animal welfare in Ireland cannot afford to throw "hissy fits". We accept that huge swathes of the public do not give a damn. I welcome the views of the shooting community. I think that if, for example, people think it acceptable to shoot feral cats, that this should be in a public domain.

People from all over the world view these forums. I would hate the idea that anyone might believe the idea that we are a nation of animal lovers.

homerhop

The hysterical tabloid element are the ones who paint foxes as animals that attack.

No more than the tabloid element that have posted comments about those who hunt and some of the terms that they have been referred to in this forum at times.

You will find that the majority of hunters do not like to see animals poisoned. The killing of dogs is something you can take up in the greyhound forum as I am sure that is what you are refering to? Speaking from those I know in the shooting world they value and take care of their dogs as good and if not better than some "animal lovers"

Anyone involved in animal welfare in Ireland cannot afford to throw "hissy fits"

Perhaps they should try meeting others on common grounds
It would be nice to see them getting involved in habitat schemes and other schemes that clubs are doing such as the reintroduction of partridge and grouse. I wonder how many "animal lovers" were out on the hills during january putting out hay for deer?

I think that if, for example, people think it acceptable to shoot feral cats, that this should be in a public domain.

So i suppose those responsible pet owners, who even though they loved their cats so much, were willing to let them go feral even care about the damage that they are doing?
I do wish Ireland would take a leaf from the book that they use in Australia and their views on feral cats. I am sure there are those in bird watch ireland who might be able to shed some light on feral cats.

People from all over the world view these forums. I would hate the idea that anyone might believe the idea that we are a nation of animal lovers.

I am glad they do too, so they can see that there are still those who claim to be animal lovers that are so far out of touch with reality. There are those who claim to be animal lovers yet can see no harm in releasing hundreds of mink and not giving a toss about the damage that they cause to local eco systems. There are animal lovers out there that love to damage peoples property because they are opposed to others view. There have been plenty of newspaper reports and documentaries about so called animal lovers who care for them so much that they have been fined by courts and not allowed more that a certain amount of animals be it horses, dogs, or cats

Ireland may not be perfect in your eyes but it is a hell of a lot better than some countries and how they treat animals.

Discodog

You encourage Grouse, Partridge & Deer to shoot them. Surely you would expect animal lovers to join in. Some people here were putting out Winter feed as you know from the posts here.

Not just Greyhounds but all dog breeds & all the cats, horses, hares etc that suffer in Ireland.

Again you go for the extreme. How many animal rights extremists do you think there are in Ireland ?. I have never met one. Or do you include people that peacefully protest at a hunt or outside a Greyhound track ?.

Ireland is better than some countries. For example we are better than China. But we consider ourselves a sophisticated modern European country & in this company we are one of the worst.

21 Countries have agreed to the European Convention on Pet Animals between 1987 & 2004. We have still not.

We allow hunting with dogs & Hare coursing which are banned in other Countries. We have no up to date Animal Welfare legislation unlike most Countries. We kill 20 times more dogs than most & we prosecute many time less people for cruelty.

I guess it depends who you want to be measured against.

wetdogsmell

homerhop wrote: »

No more than the tabloid element that have posted comments about those who hunt and some of the terms that they have been referred to in this forum at times.

You will find that the majority of hunters do not like to see animals poisoned. The killing of dogs is something you can take up in the greyhound forum as I am sure that is what you are refering to? Speaking from those I know in the shooting world they value and take care of their dogs as good and if not better than some "animal lovers"


Perhaps they should try meeting others on common grounds
It would be nice to see them getting involved in habitat schemes and other schemes that clubs are doing such as the reintroduction of partridge and grouse. I wonder how many "animal lovers" were out on the hills during january putting out hay for deer?



So i suppose those responsible pet owners, who even though they loved their cats so much, were willing to let them go feral even care about the damage that they are doing?
I do wish Ireland would take a leaf from the book that they use in Australia and their views on feral cats. I am sure there are those in bird watch ireland who might be able to shed some light on feral cats.



I am glad they do too, so they can see that there are still those who claim to be animal lovers that are so far out of touch with reality. There are those who claim to be animal lovers yet can see no harm in releasing hundreds of mink and not giving a toss about the damage that they cause to local eco systems. There are animal lovers out there that love to damage peoples property because they are opposed to others view. There have been plenty of newspaper reports and documentaries about so called animal lovers who care for them so much that they have been fined by courts and not allowed more that a certain amount of animals be it horses, dogs, or cats

Ireland may not be perfect in your eyes but it is a hell of a lot better than some countries and how they treat animals.

this is the most sencible post, i've ever read on this whole site

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

this is the most sencible post, i've ever read on this whole site

Of course because he agrees with you :rolleyes:

wetdogsmell

Discodog wrote: »

Of course because he agrees with you :rolleyes:

no, because the poster makes sence and listens to the other side of the story which alot of other people on here (you included) seem unable to do

Discodog

At the end of the day there will be little agreement between those who care for animals & those who derive pleasure from killing them. Occasionally there will be a need to kill, we all accept this, but there is a world of difference in killing for necessity & killing for pleasure.

I have had to kill lots of animals often by the side of the road & alone at night. That has been to alleviate suffering. I can do it in an instance & I have no doubts but I still hate it.

I have lived the other side of the story. I was raised on a farm. I longed to get my first air rifle, I practised like mad & at the first attempt I shot a Starling. As my mates were congratulating me on a pretty good shot I looked down at the dead bird & thought why the hell have I done this. They felt pleasure, I felt sick.

Often killing that is deemed necessary is not. There are other alternatives.

wetdogsmell

Discodog wrote: »

At the end of the day there will be little agreement between those who care for animals & those who derive pleasure from killing them. Occasionally there will be a need to kill, we all accept this, but there is a world of difference in killing for necessity & killing for pleasure.

I have had to kill lots of animals often by the side of the road & alone at night. That has been to alleviate suffering. I can do it in an instance & I have no doubts but I still hate it.

I have lived the other side of the story. I was raised on a farm. I longed to get my first air rifle, I practised like mad & at the first attempt I shot a Starling. As my mates were congratulating me on a pretty good shot I looked down at the dead bird & thought why the hell have I done this. They felt pleasure, I felt sick.

Often killing that is deemed necessary is not. There are other alternatives.

i understand what your saying but i don't think its that black and white,

i consider myself an animal lover but i love hunting, and even the animals i hunt i respect and would hate to see them gone from our countryside, the last fox i killed was late feb and we're just starting back hunting now, most hunters don't hunt them between march and september, it gives them a chance to breed in peace and for cubs to grow

Discodog

If you don't let the cubs grow you will have nothing to kill. If you were killing out of necessity you would kill the cubs. You are not killing to alleviate a fox problem but killing for pleasure.

Funny that killing for pleasure is what people accuse the fox of doing.

wetdogsmell

Discodog wrote: »

If you don't let the cubs grow you will have nothing to kill. If you were killing out of necessity you would kill the cubs. You are not killing to alleviate a fox problem but killing for pleasure.

Funny that killing for pleasure is what people accuse the fox of doing.

i never said i was hunting out of necessity or to alleviate a fox problem

just recived this link, another fox attack
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/7995041/Fox-bites-womans-ear-as-she-sleeps.html

Discodog

The story:

"Seconds later an adult fox attacked the lawyer, sinking its teeth into her ear, which later had to be glued back together by medics. A terrified Miss Bradwell then managed to scare the startled fox off which she believed entered her house through an open downstairs window.
Doctors at the hospital she attended found that the fox’s teeth had cut through the cartilage in her ear, which could not be stitched"


The Ear:



The next thing is that we will 'ear how she is suing the fox for damages. Sleeping in a ground floor bedroom with the window open in London - she has had a lucky escape that it was only a fox !. This surgical glue must be good stuff !.