9/11 Attacks

meglome

Happyman42 wrote: »

But they ignored evidence that he had a national ID and said instead that:
'this lack of US identification as the reason Al Suqami took his passport on his final flight, enabling it to be found.'

But there's no evidence that he had an ID card. He didn't use one and one was never found. Speculation isn't evidence.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Does your mind not ask.....What if Caprice C was lying or was simply wrong and he actually used his National ID?
Would you, 'looking for the truth' at least investigate the newspapers findings and report? Can you see how it casts doubt on their finding in this instance?

If I was investigating a crime of course I WOULD assume there was a conspiracy, that's my job ffs. Then the next step is to find out who was involved in that conspiracy. They simply didn't look at all the evidence.

My mind sometimes wonders why I'm not a king and living in a castle but that would also be irrelevant. No offence but you seem to have no idea how a court of law or commission works. They follow the evidence, they do not assume what happened, they do not chase things that cannot be shown to exist. They do not assume witnesses are lying or 'in on it' when there is no evidence for such a thing. You on the other hand are assuming it was a conspiracy after the fact and wondering why the commission didn't, even though they never would.

Happyman42 wrote: »

I
Yes there is.

What is the evidence he had an ID card?
And even if we assume for second he did what evidence is there that he used it?

Happyman42 wrote: »

How do you know it was the same passport?

The witnesses and the evidence say that it was. Have you got other evidence?

Happyman42 wrote: »

If it was just a passport wouldn't that strike you as odd?

But it wasn't just a passport that was found. As I've already said a passport would be much much more likely to be handed to a cop than a seat cushion or life-vest. Someone might have picked them up but would have no reason to give them to a cop at that point.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Speculation, No need for the NYPD to be involved, the officer was just doing his job.

You know what amuses me somewhat... the CT world thinks people won't talk to them because they have been 'gotten to'. But many people have been harassed and threatened by CT'ers so if I was that guy who picked up the passport i wouldn't dream of coming forward, it would be a nightmare.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why did he apply for an National ID, was it because his passport was compromised? He is reputed to be the leader of that cell, was he going to risk the operation with a dodgy passport that had failed to get him into Bahamas?

It was a legit passport, he just wasn't welcome in the Bahamas. Obviously you understand to apply for an ID he'd have to properly identify himself, thus using his passport. And Mohamed Atta was supposed to be leader of the cell.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Makes it's survival even more highly unlikely imo. Soaked in jet fuel??? so it managed to escape a hideous fireball soaked in incredibly combustible fuel and didn't light? Have you ever sprinkled ordinary petrol and set it alight?

I have lit petrol before but i wonder if you have. Petrol can be surprising difficult to light and the same goes for jet fuel. In the movies they throw a match onto it or shoot a bullet but in the real world nether of those things is likely to ignite petrol or Jet fuel. The blast wave is carrying the passport away from the flames anyway.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

we know he used his passport to check in at Logan.

How? Far as I know we have one Ticket agent who said he used it. Transcripts of the interview please (to assess how rigourous it was) or a copy taken off the passport.

Why would a man (who knew he was going to die) apply for another form of ID if he wasn't going to use it?

alastair

Soveriegn wrote: »

This video is such a load of bull. Just like with most other 9/11 bull, we are expected to not believe our own eyes.


Here are just 2 of hundreds of examples where you can count along.

Try counting along to this - and make it fit into 9.25 seconds.

http://www.911myths.com/WTC2Collapse.mpeg

alastair

Soveriegn wrote: »

Coz thermite could be the culprit for the molten steel found at the base of the towers weeks after 9/11.

And it does kinda explode.

Plus it was a military grade, advanced thermate, how would you really know what it does ?

Maybe it was just, you know, magic thermite - the long-lasting stuff?

meglome

Happyman42 wrote: »

How? Far as I know we have one Ticket agent who said he used it. Transcripts of the interview please (to assess how rigourous it was) or a copy taken off the passport.

You mean the one person who took it from him and checked it was the one person to say they saw it? The person who was supposed to do that as it was her job. You see how you're assuming a conspiracy again, something which a commission would never do.
Copies of passports are still not taken to this day, why would there be a copy of it?

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why would a man (who knew he was going to die) apply for another form of ID if he wasn't going to use it?

Firstly we'd prove he actually did such a thing. Not only that but when he supposedly did it.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Transcripts of the interviews with Caprice C? Photocopy taken at check -in?

Who had their passports photocopied in 2001?

The woman was interviewed two days later - two days in which no-one went through any check-ins. Not much scope for forgetting her last few check-ins, is it?

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why would a man (who knew he was going to die) apply for another form of ID if he wasn't going to use it?

Why would he have signed up for a months gym time, why would any of them have bothered with hold luggage? Maybe they couldn't be sure they would pull it off that day.

alastair

meglome wrote: »

I have lit petrol before but i wonder if you have. Petrol can be surprising difficult to light and the same goes for jet fuel. In the movies they throw a match onto it or shoot a bullet but in the real world nether of those things is likely to ignite petrol or Jet fuel. The blast wave is carrying the passport away from the flames anyway.

Aviation fuel is less flammable than petrol - for what it's worth.

demonspawn

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Hmmm wonder where the aluminium and iron oxide came from:rolleyes:

You mean the two main components of Thermite? Gee, I wonder where it came from alright. :rolleyes:

Maybe they didn't bother using Thermate, maybe they just brought in bags of regular Themite for the whole year after Saddam declared that he was going to begin selling his oil for euros back in 2000.

demonspawn

alastair wrote: »

Why would he have signed up for a months gym time, why would any of them have bothered with hold luggage? Maybe they couldn't be sure they would pull it off that day.

Or maybe they were just regular passengers who can no longer defend their innocence.

Happyman42

Have either you or Alastair ever come across the term 'INVESTIGATE'
My point is that the commission chose to ignore or were never presented with or decided not to investigate certain things. Therefore my assessment (and you of course are entitled to yours) is that their findings are not conclusive. Meglone, go back to the article from the newspaper and at the bottom you have the sources for the information they revealed. You two are 'speculating' as to why they didn't consider or investigate this evidence from a pro-Commission point of view. I am not saying that they are wrong, what I am saying is that their failure to review this casts doubts on their findings. And the Passport issue is not the only one.

meglome wrote: »

But there's no evidence that he had an ID card. He didn't use one and one was never found. Speculation isn't evidence.
As I say, go back to the newspaper article. I have no way of checking their sources but the Commission had.



My mind sometimes wonders why I'm not a king and living in a castle but that would also be irrelevant. No offence but you seem to have no idea how a court of law or commission works. They follow the evidence, they do not assume what happened, they do not chase things that cannot be shown to exist.
First the INVESTIGATION (that word again) then the Commission assess & adjudicate the INVESTIGATIONS (jaysus there it is again) interogate the witnesses and issue their findings. Am I right?

They do not assume witnesses are lying or 'in on it' when there is no evidence for such a thing.

An INVESTIGATION assumes witnesses might not be telling the truth, ever hear of the word INTEROGATION? I would like to see how rigourous that was as I would in a 'normal' court of law.


You on the other hand are assuming it was a conspiracy after the fact and wondering why the commission didn't, even though they never would.

It was a 'conspiracy', fact.
Who was involved was what the Commission was tasked to find out.





What is the evidence he had an ID card?
And even if we assume for second he did what evidence is there that he used it?
Check the newspapers sources, or at the very least be critical that the Commission didn't.



The witnesses and the evidence say that it was. Have you got other evidence?
No. But as an INVESTIGATOR I would be curious as to why he would apply for an ID card, and why all the others who applied with him, used theirs that day but he decided to risk a dodgy passport.



But it wasn't just a passport that was found. As I've already said a passport would be much much more likely to be handed to a cop than a seat cushion or life-vest. Someone might have picked them up but would have no reason to give them to a cop at that point.

You or Alastair said that identification documents( drivers licences etc) where found, as important as a passport, no?



You know what amuses me somewhat... the CT world thinks people won't talk to them because they have been 'gotten to'. But many people have been harassed and threatened by CT'ers so if I was that guy who picked up the passport i wouldn't dream of coming forward, it would be a nightmare.
Maybe, but that hasn't stopped people coming forward from a sense of duty either.



It was a legit passport, he just wasn't welcome in the Bahamas. Obviously you understand to apply for an ID he'd have to properly identify himself, thus using his passport.
The report Alastair posted earlier, which I quoted, says that his passport was clearly stamped with the date of his visa expiration, the found passport had that date altered, a 'suspect indicator'(I think that was the term) according to the FBI. It isn't a big leap of sense to assume that ihe might have applied for different ID or aquired a second passport from dodgy Saudi Passport office (FBI's Assessment) The imperative for an investigator reaching that conclusion (remember it's his job to follow leads and his hunches) would be to INVESTIGATE.....no?
And Mohamed Atta was supposed to be leader of the cell.
Apologies, the same FBI document names him as the probable leader of the cell that took the plane, not the maiin group of 19


I have lit petrol before but i wonder if you have. Petrol can be surprising difficult to light and the same goes for jet fuel. In the movies they throw a match onto it or shoot a bullet but in the real world nether of those things is likely to ignite petrol or Jet fuel. The blast wave is carrying the passport away from the flames anyway.

Now you are talking rubbish

Di0genes

demonspawn wrote: »

You mean the two main components of Thermite? Gee, I wonder where it came from alright. :rolleyes:

I can think of much more plausible reasons for rust and aluminium to be in the rubble of a collapsed sky scraper.

alastair

demonspawn wrote: »

Or maybe they were just regular passengers who can no longer defend their innocence.

Witnessed hijacking the plane by those on the plane?

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Have either you or Alastair ever come across the term 'INVESTIGATE'
My point is that the commission chose to ignore or were never presented with or decided not to investigate certain things.

They only investigated actual evidence. Awful, isn't it?

Di0genes

Happyman42 wrote: »

Have either you or Alastair ever come across the term 'INVESTIGATE'

I dont know do you know how to use the quote function.

My point is that the commission chose to ignore or were never presented with or decided not to investigate certain things.

If they investigated every possible reason for every possible piece of evidence it would probably be in session for 300 years.

Therefore my assessment (and you of course are entitled to yours) is that their findings are not conclusive.

The passport was recovered in the rubble. The Air Hostess recalls checking in the the hijacker with the passport when he boarded the plane.

Trying to figure out alternative conclusions as to how the passport arrived in New York is a complete waste of time.

And the Passport issue is not the only one.

The passport issue isn't an issue. Please find something reasonable to clutch at.

Divorce Referendum

demonspawn wrote: »

You mean the two main components of Thermite? Gee, I wonder where it came from alright. :rolleyes:

Maybe they didn't bother using Thermate, maybe they just brought in bags of regular Themite for the whole year after Saddam declared that he was going to begin selling his oil for euros back in 2000.

Oh jees. Cement which is used in concrete which im sure the WTC had plenty of uses iron oxide in its manufacturing process and also as a colourant or did you know that already:rolleyes:. As for elemental aluminium well try the whole facade of the building or would you dispute that. Hardly unusual to find that in the dust of a building that had been just pulverised.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Aviation fuel is less flammable than petrol - for what it's worth.

And, your point is? The aviation fuel ignited why wouldn't the aviation fuel soaked passport? It's just an other improbable in an already fantastic survival. Was anything else ejected from the building that day on fire? The seats are clearly smouldering on the street in photos so Meglone's statement that it survived because it was exploded from the plane doesn't hold.
It survived, miraculously.

Di0genes

Happyman42 wrote: »

And, your point is? The aviation fuel ignited why wouldn't the aviation fuel soaked passport? It's just an other improbable in an already fantastic survival. Was anything else ejected from the building that day on fire? The seats are clearly smouldering on the street in photos so Meglone's statement that it survived because it was exploded from the plane doesn't hold.
It survived, miraculously.

"Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...

Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.

A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.

In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".

http://www.911myths.com/html/passport_recovered.html

On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

http://gk.nytimes.com/mem/gatekeeper.html?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/20/national/20LETT.html&OP=2edab88aQ2F-xQ3AO-wp5tDppJQ51-Q51))Q22-Q22Q51-Q51)-yQ3DJRpyQ3D6-Q51)hQ3EccfmJG6


Mail and and Air miileage card are examples of material recovered from the WTC planes.

You're getting more and more tenuous with each post.

demonspawn

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Oh jees. Cement which is used in concrete which im sure the WTC had plenty of uses iron oxide in its manufacturing process and also as a colourant or did you know that already:rolleyes:. As for elemental aluminium well try the whole facade of the building or would you dispute that. Hardly unusual to find that in the dust of a building that had been just pulverised.

Well very convenient then that Thermite is composed of aluminum and iron oxide then isn't it? And what type of concrete uses iron oxide? Only decorative concrete that does not have any structural use whatsoever. What concrete in the WTC was like this? Any pics?

Happyman42

Di0genes wrote: »

I dont know do you know how to use the quote function.



If they investigated every possible reason for every possible piece of evidence it would probably be in session for 300 years.



The passport was recovered in the rubble. The Air Hostess recalls checking in the the hijacker with the passport when he boarded the plane.

Trying to figure out alternative conclusions as to how the passport arrived in New York is a complete waste of time.



The passport issue isn't an issue. Please find something reasonable to clutch at.

Whoa whoa whoa, since when do you get to decide what's an issue?

If either you, Alastair or Meglone ever get to investigate anything I sincerely hope it's only your navels.

Di0genes

demonspawn wrote: »

Well very convenient then that Thermite is composed of aluminum and iron oxide then isn't it? And what type of concrete uses iron oxide? Only decorative concrete that does not have any structural use whatsoever. What concrete in the WTC was like this? Any pics?

It's not very convenient. What they picked an method of controlled demolition based on what the building the wanted to demolish was made of?

pablo_escobar

Bush and his cronies said that Bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks yet the FBI have said publicly there's no evidence linking Bin Laden to the event.

Divorce Referendum

demonspawn wrote: »

Well very convenient then that Thermite is composed of aluminum and iron oxide then isn't it? And what type of concrete uses iron oxide? Only decorative concrete that does not have any structural use whatsoever. What concrete in the WTC was like this? Any pics?

Am are you reading my posts or just blurting out random stuff.It is used in all structural concrete because it is contained in the cement. Portland cement which is an additive in concrete is made using iron oxide.

Materials that contain appropriate amounts of calcium compounds, silica, alumina and iron oxide are crushed and screened and placed in a rotating cement kiln. Ingredients used in this process are typically materials such as limestone, marl, shale, iron ore, clay, and fly ash

http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_faqs.asp

It can be used as a colourant in concrete also

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

And, your point is? The aviation fuel ignited why wouldn't the aviation fuel soaked passport? It's just an other improbable in an already fantastic survival. Was anything else ejected from the building that day on fire? The seats are clearly smouldering on the street in photos so Meglone's statement that it survived because it was exploded from the plane doesn't hold.
It survived, miraculously.

Lots of flammable material from the planes survived the crash and fireballs unburned. The photographic and eyewitness evidence is all over the 911 archives.

alastair

demonspawn wrote: »

Well very convenient then that Thermite is composed of aluminum and iron oxide then isn't it? And what type of concrete uses iron oxide? Only decorative concrete that does not have any structural use whatsoever. What concrete in the WTC was like this? Any pics?

The twin towers were filled with plasterboard (all the internal walls) - which contains ample iron oxide.

alastair

pablo_escobar wrote: »

Bush and his cronies said that Bin Laden was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks yet the FBI have said publicly there's no evidence linking Bin Laden to the event.

Mr Bin Laden begs to differ - he says he/they did it.

pablo_escobar

Professor Peter Dale Scott conducted a recent interview with the reputable independent news organization "The Real News Network"

In an article for prisonplanet.com he commented:

I do not know the truth of what happened on 9/11. I do know for a certainty that there has been a cover-up of 9/11; and also, what the 9/11 Commission itself admits, that there has been high-level governmental lying about what happened, and what didn’t happen, on that day. It became clear to me early on that 9/11 was another in a string of what I have called “deep events” — which I define in my forthcoming book as

events which are systematically ignored, suppressed, or falsified in public (and even internal) government, military and intelligence documents, as well as in the mainstream media and public consciousness. Underlying them is frequently the involvement of deep forces linked to either the drug traffic or to agencies of surveillance (or to both together), whose activities are extremely difficult to discern or document.

For those of you intelligent enough not to blindly accept everything the media and government tells you, here is the interview, uploaded last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0HJdvD6SJk

pablo_escobar

alastair wrote: »

Mr Bin Laden begs to differ - he says he/they did it.

Well then, alastair.

Why don't the FBI want him for questioning?

Surely, his confession is valid in court of law? if not, why not?

demonspawn

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Am are you reading my posts or just blurting out random stuff.It is used in all structural concrete because it is contained in the cement. Portland cement which is an additive in concrete is made using iron oxide.

The iron oxide content present in Portland cement is not enough to create the aluminum/iron oxide chips found at the WTC site.

The only other explanation for those chips is Thermite.

Try again.

demonspawn

alastair wrote: »

Mr Bin Laden begs to differ - he says he/they did it.

Bin laden was allowed to escape in the Tora Borra fiasco. This has already been covered so let's not keep going back to that.