Deignan doing Trojan work!

sunshinyday

Good to see Philip Deignan getting recognition for his efforts in the Vuelta. I think Irishcycling (Shane stokes) seems to focus too much on the final result of a stage, without credit being paid to the tactics and work carried out by riders in the stage.
The emphasis is constantly on where Roche finishes, probably the typical hype and positive encouragement that one would expect when we have participants in a big international event. But it is almost with a dropped head that they report like today

Report begins with:
Ireland’s Nicolas Roche once again maintained his eighth place overall in the general classification of the Vuelta a España today, remaining with all of the main contenders during the 175 kilometre race to Vilanova i la Geltrú.

Finishing with:
Meanwhile fellow Irish pro Philip Deignan had another quiet showing, finishing ten and a half minutes back in 88th place. He is 117th overall.
http://www.irishcycling.com/publish/news/art_5183.shtml


"Entering the final 50km, they held a massive 7:40 gap over the peloton, but a stint at the front from Cervélo, and in particular Ireland’s Philip Deignan, knocked almost four minutes off that gap inside 20km. However, with nobody other than Cervélo willing to take up the pacemaking that far out, the pursuit petered out and the breakaway survived to the foot of the climb."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/65th-vuelta-a-espana-his/stage-8/results

Deignan finished 90th in the end almost 9 minutes down, but the group he led had Roche/Sastre and all the big hitters in it. He did his job but i dont feel its reflected in the reporting. Ive nothing against SS but feel his reports would be more enjoyable to read if his intrepretation of events was less biased.

RobFowl

I know Shane and have seen the way he observes and analyses races. His attention to detail and knowledge of the intricacies of racing/tactics and unseen team efforts is really second to none.

It unfortunate but Philip is having a quiet race. He is doing some quality domestique work but this is a guy who last year seemed to have made the breakthrough onto a higher level.

As such TBH more is expected from him.

I do hope he comes around and gets a result later in the race or in the events after but Shane cannot be faulted for telling it as it is.....

Slideshowbob

See wat u mean op but thems the facts that matter in a race as are very well reported by ss imho

I would not agree with u on this one

There is no Trojan worker jersey in this years vuelta afaik (although there is always the opportunity to have a chat about things like the weather with certain race leaders around the same tome you are about to do some massive pulling on the front a few days after your team announces it will suprisingly fold at the end of the year!);)

sunshinyday

No worries, understand the opinions, just voicing one of my own, wont be to everyones taste but i guess thats the point of boards at times.

Slideshowbob

Indeed although there will probably be some up and coming a4 rider on here in the morning to ate the head off me and probably accuse me of being condescending or something (sorry in joke couldn't resist)

niceonetom

It was good to see Philip on the front hauling back the breakaway, and even better to hear both Harmon and Kelly take note of it. They also mentioned that some of the time he lost on previous days was from getting caught behind a split while he was back getting water water the team. He's clearly doing his job well at a difficult time - unfortunately being a good domestique is, almost by definition, not going to get you in the papers.

Any further rumours on OmegaPharma/Lotto out there?

papac

Road cycling is unique among sports in that its a team effort for an individual result.(I can't think of another sport where this happens- I am open to correction.).
The mainstream media are very one dimensional in their reporting and this is to be expected- Joe Blogs' eyes would glaze over if they started to explain why PD did really well the other day but finished last- a day and a half off the winners time.
I agree to with the OP to an extent. The cycling media (not just SS) could be a bit more layered in their reporting generally I think.

mcgratheoin

papac wrote: »

Road cycling is unique among sports in that its a team effort for an individual result.(I can't think of another sport where this happens- I am open to correction.).

Motorsport.

Hungrycol

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Motorsport.

Just about to say F1.

papac

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Motorsport.

Not quite the same.In cycling they are all out there on the road physically competing.All trained athletes giving their all in a combined effort for the benfit of one gc contender.
Lots of other sports depend on support teams like f1 to a greater or lesser extent. F1 is more of an engineering competition than a sport anyway imo.

Edit. Afaik team tactics- ie one driver from a team acting to help another driver on his team to win- is actually against the rules of F1. Am I right??

ednwireland

just hope hes doing enough (or has enough ranking points ) to get a decent contract next year

papac

ednwireland wrote: »

just hope hes doing enough (or has enough ranking points ) to get a decent contract next year

His manager has good contacts.:rolleyes: PD will be fine I reckon.

ROK ON

PD retired from Vuelta today.

papac

ROK ON wrote: »

PD retired from Vuelta today.

Shame. Any reasons given?? Link??

ednwireland

papac wrote: »

Shame. Any reasons given?? Link??

+1 shame, from the
eursport tracker

81km - The pack is trying to keep up with the escapees, and reduced the gap to 12:55. Phillip Deignan has pulled out of the stage.

DeadMan1

sounds like he hasn't been at full health of weeks/months

sunshinyday

sh1t i jinxed him!

any bets he will get a mention today:rolleyes:

IM0

sunshinyday wrote: »

any bets he will get a mention today:rolleyes:

yep but it will be to do with him QUITTING, kind of ironic really given the op.

Beasty

Spoilers should be used on anything related to today's stage (otherwise your posts may be deleted, and infractions issued)

Thanks

Beasty

Slideshowbob

Is it a spoiler to relay such news if it ain't you know what I mean like ......... A result

Beasty

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Is it a spoiler to relay such news if it ain't you know what I mean like ......... A result

Yes - if in doubt, start a specific stage thread, or use the spoiler tags. It's all in the Charter

It's unfortunate that some (now removed) comments were made about today's incidents. Others have used spoiler tags (and these have been used in the main race thread also). It's simply to allow posters to enjoy delayed coverage without someone spoiling the day's events by providing details here.

ROK ON

Apologies. Honest mistake. Simply never remembered about spoilers.

mcgratheoin

papac wrote: »

Not quite the same.In cycling they are all out there on the road physically competing.

Fair enough - Kenyans and Ethiopians frequently use team tactics in athletics - one person will drive the pace along similar to a domestique to shed competitors out the back.

papac

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Fair enough - Kenyans and Ethiopians frequently use team tactics in athletics - one person will drive the pace along similar to a domestique to shed competitors out the back.

Yeah. I've always thought that the use of "rabbits" in athletic record attempts was the closest thing to cycling. Not the norm for the sport though.

mcgratheoin

papac wrote: »

Not the norm for the sport though.

To be honest, a true run race is not the norm in athletics these days - especially at the Grand Prix level. Pacemakers are pretty ubiquitous at all GP meetings. Tends to make things very interesting when it comes to the championships though.

On a related question, at what level of cycling to teams start to have leaders etc.. Obviously two lads from a club in a break will be more inclined to work together but at what level of racing will someone in a break refuse to do any work because their team leader isn't in the break?

uberwolf

I've certainly been in breaks in A2 equiv where a club mate of the yellow jersey refused to ride

Lumen

mcgratheoin wrote: »

at what level of racing will someone in a break refuse to do any work because their team leader isn't in the break?

A4. Seriously. Unless you're in Swords.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

A4. Seriously.

We had a team leader???

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Unless you're in Swords.

Now that's a bit harsh! The rules are simple - if you can't work for shaungil, you get transferred (normally to Orwell)

niceonetom

There's a big difference between refusing to work because it would disadvantage a team-mate up the road and actually disadvantaging yourself for a team-mate, say by pulling a break back in the knowledge that doing so will rule you out in the sprint.

Where's my lead out train???

ednwireland

back to the thread

from roches tour diary

His team told him that while he had started the Vuelta sick, he might actually get better after a few days of racing, which is something I don't understand. Maybe if Philip only had a head cold he might have gotten better but he has been out for a lot of the season with a virus and has never reached his usual good form this year.

RobFowl

Beasty wrote: »

Now that's a bit harsh! The rules are simple - if you can't work for shaungil, you get transferred (normally to Orwell)

Not quite you sit in and wait for the sprint and if a team-mate attacks you chase him done. If Shaulgil (or any one) beats you in a sprint you simply claim you were leading them out

IM0

where did my reply in this thread go?

ednwireland

me@ucd wrote: »

where did my reply in this thread go?

musta got spoilered

IM0

no I dont think there was any giving anything away in it, it just got deleted, the question is why.

Chips Lovell

me@ucd wrote: »

no their was no giving anything away in it, it just got deleted, the question is why.

Your post was deleted by Beasty because it contained spoilers about that day's stage.

IM0

el tonto wrote: »

Your post was deleted by Beasty because it contained spoilers about that day's stage.

ok sorry didnt realise that, the other ones got spoiler tags and mine got deleted, hmm..

Chips Lovell

me@ucd wrote: »

ok sorry didnt realise that, the other ones got spoiler tags and mine got deleted, hmm..

Two different mods intervened in the thread and took differing approaches to the spoilers. Given that it's no longer the day of the stage, I'll undelete it now.

Beasty

me@ucd wrote: »

ok sorry didnt realise that, the other ones got spoiler tags and mine got deleted, hmm..

As one mod had already intervened, I thought deleting was a better option than infractions:)

Sorry about the inconsistency [EMAIL="me@ucd"]me@ucd[/EMAIL], but I didn't want to spend the evening trying to insert spoilers all over the place, and dealt with it through the warning post - I probably should have said in that post that I'd taken the lazy option with posts already made!

Dura Ace

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/deignan-close-to-deal-for-2011

TheBlaaMan

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/deignan-close-to-deal-for-2011

Chips Lovell

Mod Note. Threads Merged